[cctalk] Re: Flipping an 8" diskette

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

For a flippy 8” disk you don’t need to punch a notch as the write control is 
opposite of the 5.25.  No notch is read-write. You will need to punch a new 
index hole in both sides of the jacket though.

Pete

> On Sep 1, 2022, at 4:10 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Someone on Fesse Bouc just found a sealed box of SS/SD 8" floppies in
> their garage.
> 
> Most FB types are too young to know 8" disks existed, of course.
> 
> Someone suggested punching a notch in them and using both sides.
> 
> Was that even possible on 8" disks?
> 
> (TBH single-sided actually-floppy floppies are before my time and I
> never used 'em. When they were on low-end American 8-bit home
> computers, this impecunious young Brit couldn't afford floppy drives
> at all. By the time I could, 5.25" DS/DD was the cheapest drive and
> cheapest media.)
> 
> -- 
> Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
> Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com
> Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven
> UK: (+44) 7939-087884 ~ Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053

Re: cleaning up edge connectors

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

> On Apr 28, 2022, at 3:47 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I am hoping to restore my TRS-80 Model-I(s).  As is usually
> the case with these the edge connectors are badly corroded
> and dirty and cleaning them with an eraser really doesn't
> help much.  Back in the day there used to be something you
> could get that let you "gold plate" the edge connectors.
> Is anything like that still available?  How about reflowing
> the pads using something like silver solder?
> If neither of these is doable or practical, what are people
> doing to clean up these connectors?
> 
> bill

TRS-80 guru Ian Mavric sells those gold connectors for the TRS-80.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/164568343523 

Re: TRS-80 Question

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

> 
> On 4/12/22 6:37 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:
>> So, this just gets more and more confusing. (Have I really been away
>> from all this for that long!!!)
>> I dug up the tech manuals for the two of them (buried deep in my
>> stacks of books) and compared them.  And you are, of course, right.
>> Which just brings more questions.
>> Why do Model I cassette programs (not BASIC) not run on the Model III?
>> 

Model I machine language cassette programs will run just fine on the Model III 
given that the restrictions on direct hardware access mentioned are respected.  
For example, for my game RoundUp!, you can load the 500 baud tape version on 
the Model I or Model III just fine.  Of course, you need to specify “L” for low 
rate baud of 500 at the Model III Cassette? prompt.  The model I only supports 
500 baud cassettes.

TRS-80 Trash Talk Live is Tonight at 9pm EST

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

Come join us on Zoom tonight at 9pm EST for our annual end of year show as we 
engage in a TRS-80 community retrospective of 2020 and talk about where we want 
to see the community go in 2021.  

Email for Zoom details: trs80trasht...@gmail.com 


Or you can watch on our YouTube channel: 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXkGugvdCkpkMDylVQb9gfg 


But, it’s much more fun interacting on Zoom, so join us!  

You don’t have to be a TRS-80 enthusiast to join.

Later,
Pete

TRS-80 Trash Talk Live #7

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

We’re having another TRS-80 Trash Talk online gathering tomorrow.  Everyone is 
welcome to join us!

https://www.trs80trashtalk.com/2020/08/trs-80-trash-talk-live-7-is-coming-on.html
 


Thanks,
Pete

Re: TRS 80 Model 12 Picked up

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

For Model 12 software checkout

https://pski.net/trs-80-model-ii-archive-project/ 


Regarding the size of the M12, it’s ironic that if you look inside it's a lot 
of empty space for what it does.  It’s meant to be upgradeable to Model 16B 
specs with an optional card cage and MC68000 hardware.

The keyboards do come up for sale on eBay regularly, but they are uncommon.  It 
will run you between $100-$150 depending on condition.  The 12/16B/6000 
keyboards are interchangeable.  You can also use a Model II/16 keyboard by 
fashioning a gender and pin-swap adapter.

> On Jul 29, 2020, at 12:00 AM, devin davison via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> Greetings. It has been an interesting day. Rather late in the day, a buddy
> notified me of a local thrift store that went under, and mentioned there
> may be some computers on site up for grabs. Upon arrival, the place was a
> mess, but the folks there were friendly and gave me the tour, everything
> had to go, the shopkeeper skipped town and left the place full of junk for
> the Building owner to clean out.
> 
> I found a TRS 80 Model 12, a vga commodore branded monitor, commodore
> cassette drive, among some misc 5.25 floppy disks. There may be more, I
> need to go back for another sweep in the morning.
> 
> The computer is extremely big, taking up an entire kitchen table,rivaling
> the space that is taken up on my desk for a pdp 11. I am looking to clear a
> space to work on it without dropping parts.
> 
> The machine looks to be clean, However i am missing the keyboard.
> The machine does not power on or show anything on the screen. I do hear a
> high pitched hiss, so there may be some kind of power supply issue. I was
> not aware of this model of machine, I am curious if anyone has a spare
> keyboard for sale.
> 
> I am not familiar with this model, it has 2, 8 inch floppy drives on the
> front. I am curious about the format of the disks, would it be possible to
> use another computer with an 8 inch drive to make a floppy to start the
> machine, or do the drives use an odd difficult format that would be
> impossible to write?
> 
> http://devindamico.com/Uploads/TRS80M12.jpg
> 
> --Devin D.

Re: Computer Automation Naked Mini circuit boards

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

I’d like to create a Tandy 150 replica one day since there are no known 
examples in existence.  It was based on the Naked Mini-4 system.  These boards 
seem to be an earlier CA product but I’m not sure.  Anyone here know for 
certain?

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?66885-The-Rarest-Tandy-Computer-of-them-All-The-Tandy-150/page2

Pete

> On Oct 3, 2019, at 5:20 AM, Pontus Pihlgren via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have a Naked Mini, where are you located?
> 
> I couldn't see your images.. not sure if my vcfed account is still good. 
> So I don't know what you have.
> 
> /P
> 
>> On Wed, Oct 02, 2019 at 09:31:09AM +, Roland via cctech wrote:
>> Hello,
>> I was wondering if anyone has a Computer Automation Naked Mini.
>> I have these boards and I have no clue what to do with it. So if anyoneis 
>> interested please let me know. Pictures are in this vcfed topic:
>> http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?68302-Computer-Automation-Naked-Mini-circuit-boardsAlso
>>  interested in swap with omnibus material...
>> 
>> Regards, Roland

Re: TRS-80 Fireworks

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

> On Aug 28, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Tony Duell via cctalk  
> wrote:
>> 
> Some people avoid RIFA capacitors, I don't...
> 
> A Model 4 is going to be over 30 years old now. And (I assume) the
> original capacitors
> have been fine up until now. So if the replacements last as long I'll
> be fixing it again in
> another 30 years. I can live with that.
> 
> -tony

My sentiments exactly.  Plus it keeps it more original.

Re: TRS-80 Fireworks

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

> On Aug 28, 2019, at 10:10 AM, Marvin Johnston via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> Almost all of my Model 100s (around 8 or so) need to have all of the 
> electrolytics replaced. For some reason, they started leaking and causing a 
> problem with desoldering the bad parts. Upon close examination, the leaking 
> caps can be detected relatively easily. Some information I saw somewhere 
> indicated that the Chinese caps are the worst offenders... they stole the 
> formula but apparently "modified" it slightly ending up with future problems.
> 
> Some of this information falls into the "I don't know what I don't know" 
> catagory. Nice having the tremendous volume of knowledge here to help out!
> 
> Marvin
> 

The 100 was a rebranded Kyocera so maybe they used inferior components compared 
to the Made in Fort Worth machines. :)

Re: TRS-80 Fireworks

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

> On Aug 28, 2019, at 9:34 AM, Marvin Johnston via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks everyone for the feedback... I had no idea. I'll be putting in an 
> order today with Digi-key (P/N 399-7483-ND) for probably around 25+ caps or 
> so since I have at least that many TRS-80 2s, 3s, 4s.
> 
> I guess my only question is are there other similar caps that also need to be 
> replaced? I'm well aware of the electrolytics and have that project on the 
> back burner right now (about 10 Model 100s to repair.) It is nice that they 
> are pretty trivial to replace!
> 
> Marvin
> 

I’ve had very few problems with electrolytics in the many TRS-80s I’ve worked 
on.  It seems to be one of the places where Tandy did not cheap out.  There are 
some tantalum capacitors to be found in TRS-80s.  These have a tendency to fail 
to short so I am wary of them but still, I would probably not replace any 
unless they failed.  

Re: TRS-80 Fireworks

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

> On Aug 28, 2019, at 4:15 AM, Marvin Johnston via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'm just curious how many people have powered up their TRS-80 computers, and 
> ended up with a bang and a room filled with smoke?
> 
> So far, I've gotten the fireworks in two out of two TRS-80s (model 3 and 4) 
> when they were powered up. In both cases, the problem was with the main line 
> filter capacitor mounted on one of the power supplies. The computers 
> continued to work which was my first clue the problem was not serious :).
> 
> Is this a normal problem with these older computers? I'm used to seeing the 
> electrolytics give problems, but this is the first time I've seen one of the 
> X type line filter caps blow.

This is well known issue on all Models of TRS-80, except the Model I.  In fact, 
it is almost guaranteed that your power supply main Rifa filter capacitor will 
blow within a few minutes of when you first power up one of these TRS-80s after 
sitting for years if you have the original caps.  So much so that I was able to 
record one fail in spectacular fashion.

https://youtu.be/njbwdbcfXjc 

Re: The Retro Search is back up

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

> On Apr 1, 2019, at 7:11 PM, Kevin Parker via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> This will mostly interest TRS-80 enthusiasts on this list.
> 
> Check it out at theretrosearch.com
> 

Thank you for this, Kevin!

Re: Looking for Byte Jan 78 missing page

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

Pete

> On Mar 24, 2019, at 2:20 PM, Will Cooke via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> In the Jan 78 issue of Byte magazine a series of articles titled "The Brains 
> of Men and Machines" (also the issue title on the cover) started.  EVERY 
> single scan I can find on the web is missing pages 96 and 97, right in the 
> middle of that article.  They all (including archive.org) appear to be the 
> same scan.

Ha!  I just happen to be looking through the BYTE magazines at the VCF museum 
this very moment.  Here you go. Page 97 is an advertisement.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ltkjs2no3gnj8tv/AADUZICSjpQ2O7op0_u7e-7Ja?dl=0

Re: Steve Leininger Interview

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

That’s Chuck Peddle, of course.

> On Mar 5, 2019, at 9:15 PM, Peter Cetinski  wrote:
> 
> We interviewed TRS-80 designer Steve Leininger on the latest TRS-80 Trash 
> Talk podcast.
> 
> http://www.trs80trashtalk.com 
> 
> Although he does not have the same recognition, Steve’s contribution to the 
> history of personal computing is on par with Steve Wozniak (Apple I/II) at 
> Apple and Check Peddle (PET 2001) at Commodore.  

Steve Leininger Interview

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

We interviewed TRS-80 designer Steve Leininger on the latest TRS-80 Trash Talk 
podcast.

http://www.trs80trashtalk.com 

Although he does not have the same recognition, Steve’s contribution to the 
history of personal computing is on par with Steve Wozniak (Apple I/II) at 
Apple and Check Peddle (PET 2001) at Commodore.  

Re: Kemners Surplus - Real time walkthrough

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

> On Feb 16, 2019, at 4:43 PM, Anders Nelson via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> They have until the end of June 2019.
>> 

Just my $0.02.  When I was there last year they said the same thing.  And 
prices were eBay level.  If prices aren’t coming down a lot I suspect they may 
get their lease “extended”.

Re: ELTRAN THE COMPILER ANY DOCS? (NOT THE SEMICONDUCTOR STUFF!)))

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

> On Jan 13, 2019, at 1:32 PM, John Ball via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
>> ELTRAN THE COMPILER 
>> ANY DOCS? ANY ONE? USED IT?
>> (NOT THE SEMICONDUCTOR STUFF!))
>> 
>> ED#
> 
> Hey ed, you might want to check your Caps Lock key there, bud. ;)

Maybe he’s using a TRS-80 without the lowercase enhancement? :)

Re: TRS-80 Model I modification

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

> On Oct 26, 2018, at 12:34 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> Does anyone have a description of how to put 48K of memory in
> the TRS-80 Model I without using an Expansion Interface?  I seem
> to remember there being some published back in the old days
> but can't find anything on the web.  I think it was done with 4164's
> and a few pieces of wire wrap wire to jumper the missing address
> lines.

TRS8BIT Vol 7 Issue 4 Page 32

http://www.fabsitesuk.com/tandy/trs8bit_year07.pdf 

Re: TRS-80 bits

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

I just emailed him.  There’s no way I can get there in the next few days.  

Pete

> On Jun 25, 2018, at 12:27 AM, Jim Brain via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Anyone live near this Hotel?  I am just getting home and am just now seeing 
> this.  Evidently, this is a rescue attempt, but I don't have a bunch of 
> detail as yet.
> 
> 
> Jim
> 
> 
> Hi Jim
> 
> I sent the below email to Peter yesterday. Have not heard from him.
> It would be a pity if neither of you can arrange to get hold of this
> stuff. Can you maybe provide backup if Peter can't make it?
> 
> W
> 
> Hi Peter
> 
> TRS-80 bits will be at the Watson Hotel. 440 57th Str. Hell's
> Kitchen, NY 10019.
> 
> Fellow is called Marius Killian and he's there today and tomorrow
> (24th and 25th). Sorry about short notice but I only came home last night.
> 
> Please make plan to pick up, or for hotel to hold for you. Let me know.
> 
> W
> 

Re: IBM junk

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

That’s a Computer Museum Starter Kit.  Wow.

Re: Last of the TRS-80's

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

> I am trying to ascertain what the last computer released by Tandy/Radio Shack 
> was that had the TRS-80 name on it 
> 
> I think it was the CoCo 3 in 1986 
> 
> Kevin Parker 

The CoCo 3 was Tandy badged and never had TRS-80 nomenclature.  I believe the 
honor of last TRS-80 labeled computer falls on Tandy Radio Shack’s first PC 
clone attempt, the TRS-80 Model 2000 released in 1983, shortly after the Z80 
based Model 4 and MC68000 based 16B in the same year.

Re: TRS-80 Fragmentation

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

Excuse my long post, but I get excited whenever I can talk about the Model 16. 
:)  I will expound a bit on what was already mentioned.

The Model 16 was an engineering marvel.  It was released in 1982 in the same 
form factor as the venerable Model II.  It was essentially an upgraded Model 
II.  In fact, the Model II could be upgraded to mostly Model 16 specs via an 
upgrade kit.  The 16 was a dual processor machine with 2 independent computer 
systems running in parallel, one a Z80 and the other a MC68000.  The Z80 side 
of the machine ran just as it did on the Model II.  This was a big advantage in 
that the machine could run the entire Model II library of programs.  The 68K 
subsystem consisted of a CPU card and one or more memory cards which shared 
their own independent bus (via ribbon cables) from the Z80 bus.  

When the 16 was running with a 68K OS, the Z80 subsystem controlled all I/O via 
the main computer bus.  The Z80 and 68K communicate via shared memory in the 
68K memory space with both sides essentially rapidly polling certain locations 
for requests and responses placed in memory.  There was a facility available in 
the 16 for the 68K to interrupt the Z80, but since the Model II with the Model 
16 upgrade did not have this capability, no operating systems took advantage of 
this feature AFAIK since the percentage of machines using the upgrade was 
significant.  One cool feature is that the Z80 could bank switch in 16K of any 
location on the 68K memory so Z80 programs run on the Model 16 could use the 
68K memory without a 68K OS. 

When it was released in 1982, the Model 16 came with TRSDOS-16.  This was 
essentially a MC68000 runtime that ran on the 68K boards.  With TRSDOS-16, the 
Z80 side of the machine ran the Z80 TRSDOS-II OS.  A huge issue was that the 
Model 16 was released with almost no software ready to take advantage of the 
68K.  This was a classic case of the hardware way ahead of the software.  This 
resulted in Tandy actually including a copy of the Assembler 16 with every 
Model 16 sold so that customers could write their own software.  TRSDOS-16 had 
many limitations, a few of which was that it was only single user and that the 
assembler used non-standard 68K mnemonics.

Tandy knew they needed a multi-user system for the system to succeed, and was 
considering Unos as the solution when for whatever reason they could not make 
that happen.  They then pivoted to XENIX which was finally released maybe a 
year or so after the machine.  The initial releases were rushed and as a result 
very buggy.  Tandy lost a lot of market time advantage due to this fumble.  
However, XENIX ultimately did well on the platform.  So much so that a year 
later the Model 16B, which was a 68K version of the Model II’s successor, the 
Model 12, was the most popular Unix based workstation on the market.  An 
upgrade of the machine to the Tandy 6000 a year or so later saw an increase in 
processing power.  But by then, we all know the story of the IBM PCs 
architecture dominance of the market and Tandy’s attempts to succeed in that 
area.  This caused internal business conflicts which eventually doomed the 
MC68000 architecture at the company.

Re: "Left a home full of computers" Craigslist ad

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

> On Nov 5, 2017, at 1:46 AM, jim stephens via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> I don't know anything but the ad copy the poster placed.
> 
> I'd think there might be more to the story if someone is in Southern New 
> Hampshire and can contact and perhaps visit.  Londonderry, north west from 
> Lawrence, Lowell, Ma.
> 
> https://nh.craigslist.org/sop/d/teletype-printer/6369045622.html
> 
> "Antique teletype for sale it has been indoors with other computers that are 
> 20plus yrs old , Also have a new Radio Shack TRS80 ,with all the software and 
> hardware ,printers,disc drives all like new , I was left a home with all of 
> its contents tons of electronics and computers, call if you want me to send 
> pics"

FWIW, I received some pics of these items.  The TRS-80 is far from being in new 
condition.  It’s quite a bit beat up and worn.

Re: Post scanned documents to multiple sites - Re: Tubbs fire consumed the collected archives of William Hewlett and David Packard

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

I suggest creating a free github.com account with a public repository.  This 
way whenever someone forks or clones the repo they get a full local copy with 
one command...”git clone”.  

Get enough people and you’ll never worry about losing the archive and it’s all 
for free.  If github goes away everyone still has a complete copy which  can be 
uploaded to the next great service that comes along.  It’s a semi-decentralized 
and distributed archive.

We are doing this with the Model II archive at 
https://github.com/pski/model2archive

Re: Visicalc

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

> On Oct 17, 2017, at 7:24 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
>> On 17 October 2017 at 22:51, Murray McCullough via cctalk
>>  wrote:
>>> Today marks the 36 anniversary of Visicalc a seminal program in the
>>> world of classic computing.
>>> Happy computing!
>>> Murray  :)
> 

It’s a little bit older than 36, right?


From the first TRS-80 Model II edition of Visicalc manual:

First Edition

TRSDOSTM Operating System: 

1979, 1980 Tandy Corporation All Rights Reserved.

VisiCalcTM Program:

© 1980 Software Arts, Inc.

Manufactured by Personal Software Inc.

Exclusively for Tandy Corporation.

All Rights Reserved.

"VisiCalcTM Program Manual":

'' 1980 Personal Software Inc.

All Rights Reserved.

Re: Halt and Catch Fire (TV series)

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

> On Oct 16, 2017, at 2:18 AM, tom sparks via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> I have just finished watching [Halt and Catch 
> Fire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halt_and_Catch_Fire_(TV_series))
> I've tried to Identify the companies the show represents
> 
>  
>  1990 -1995 (Season 4):
>  * Comet = [Yahoo! Directory?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahoo!_Directory)
>  Gordon Clark ( founder ), Joe 

Jerry and David’s Guide to the WWW and Yahoo! were mentioned on the show as 
competitors in one of the final episodes.

Re: Giving away my collection to someone just starting out in the hobby

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

> On Oct 13, 2017, at 2:25 AM, Digital Aeon via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> So ive picked out 4 or 5 systems that mean alot to me.And i want to
> pass the rest of the collection onto someone starting out in the hobby that
> wouldnt otherwise have the funds to get some of the stuff I have.
> 
> Steve

A noble approach.  But, watch out for the professional eBay seller posing as a 
collector who will make a nice profit off of your lifetime efforts.

Re: Tandy Assembly

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

I don't know but I'll ask him if he's still around.  How's the live stream 
working out?  I haven't had a chance to look at it.

Pete

> On Oct 7, 2017, at 10:48 AM, Santo Nucifora <santo.nucif...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Pete,
> 
> I've been watching the live stream of Tandy Assembly here:  
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPyGtUzQU0Vf7CiSiJLySUg/live
> 
> In Don French's keynote, he mentioned he designed an S-100 interface for the 
> TRS-80 Model 1. Do you or anyone know if that was the HUH Electronics 8100 
> S-100 interface? 
> 
>> On Sat, Sep 30, 2017 at 9:45 AM, Peter Cetinski via cctalk 
>> <cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> Only one week to go until the inaugural Tandy Assembly event in Chillicothe, 
>> OH.  We’ve been planning this for over a year and it’s exciting to finally 
>> see it coming together.  We’ll have exhibits and presentations covering all 
>> of the Tandy computers, from the TRS-80 Model I to the Tandy 6000.  The 
>> pockets, portables and PCs too.  If you can’t join us in Ohio, we plan on 
>> live streaming many of the presentations and events on YouTube.
>> 
>> http://www.tandyassembly.com <http://www.tandyassembly.com/>
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Pete
>> 
> 

Tandy Assembly

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

Only one week to go until the inaugural Tandy Assembly event in Chillicothe, 
OH.  We’ve been planning this for over a year and it’s exciting to finally see 
it coming together.  We’ll have exhibits and presentations covering all of the 
Tandy computers, from the TRS-80 Model I to the Tandy 6000.  The pockets, 
portables and PCs too.  If you can’t join us in Ohio, we plan on live streaming 
many of the presentations and events on YouTube.  

http://www.tandyassembly.com 

Thanks,

Pete

Re: TRS-80 Model 16 hard drive replacement woes

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

> On Aug 13, 2017, at 2:54 AM, Josh Dersch via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On 8/12/2017 8:45 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
> 
>> Long shot:
>> Is this a system (like the 5160), where there are TWO format programs?
>> 1) a physical low-level format done by special proprietary "non-user" 
>> (unobtanium?) software, followed by
>> 2) a program named "FORMAT" that only sets up the logical structures, 
>> DIRectory, etc., and assumes that the low level format was previously done
> 
> No apologies necessary :).  The Format I'm running is a low-level format 
> (I've tried the Xenix "diskutil" program and the format utility included in 
> the diagnostic routines) so it should be laying out the sectors…

To format hard drives on the Model 16 you only need the format program that is 
provided by the OS, i.e.  diskutil in XENIX, FORMAT in TRSDOS-II or HFORMAT in 
P CP/M.

Re: Through-hole desoldering (was Re: IBM 5110 - Where does the character set live? And other questions.)

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

On Jul 13, 2017, at 1:23 PM, Mike Loewen via cctalk  
wrote:
> 
>   I used a Pace rework station in the USAF, vacuum desoldering and hot air - 
> very nice, but pricey.
> 

Wow, where were you stationed?  In the late 1980s I was at Beale AFB working on 
SR-71 cameras and we used solder wick and manual suckers!

Re: Through-hole desoldering (was Re: IBM 5110 - Where does the character set live? And other questions.)

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

> On Jul 13, 2017, at 3:31 AM, Eric Smith via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 2) vacuum desoldering gun: lots of people liked the Hakko 808, but it's
> discontiued. The Hakko FR-300 looks like a reasonable replacement, and
> sells for around $310. The drawback compared to the vacuum desoldering
> station with pencil tool is that the handpiece is much heavier and bulkier
> since it contains the vacuum pump; this is probably not an issue if you
> don't use it to do a lot of desoldering in a single session.
> 

I recently purchased a Hakko FR300 for $259, which is my first experience with 
a decent desoldering tool.  I can’t recommend it enough if you have a fair 
amount of desoldering to perform.  Compared to solder wicking or a solder 
sucker it really is a world of difference.  It’s one of the best tool 
investments I’ve ever made.  

Re: Looking for TRS-80 Model parts (and/or someone in the Phoenix, AZ area)

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

> Is the file for the PAL available to program new ones?  If the items are not 
> registered, I can read out the equations.


Theses PAL equations specifically to allow the 6Mhz board to run Xenix 3 do not 
exist AFAIK.  I do have a PAL upgraded board but have not yet verified if it 
works.  If there is a way to safely reverse engineer the PALs, I might consider 
trying.

> 
> Is a schematic for the 8 MHz board available?  Is there any other tech info 
> about the differences between the original 6 MHz boards and the 8 MHz?  I 
> only have a 6 MHz, but if I knew the differences, I'd contemplate hacking it 
> into an 8 MHz, or just laying out a new 8 MHz board in Eagle.
> 

I should expand a little more.  There are actually 2 different 6Mhz boards.  
The first was a larger board that was part of the original Model 16 release.  
The second was a smaller more compact board that I believe was released late in 
the 16s life and also along with the subsequent Model 16B.  This was required 
because the 16B cannot host outsized cards in its card cage.  Btw, You can use 
a 2nd or 3rd gen 68k board in a Model 16.  You can also use a 3rd gen board in 
a 16B.

Now, only the 2nd generation 6Mhz board can be upgraded with the appropriate 
PALs.  If you have the 1st gen board you will have to be happy with Xenix 1.x.  
Which is fine because it's fun too and 98% of the Tandy Xenix software runs on 
Xenix 1.

The Model 16 service manual has the schematics of the 1st gen board.  The Tandy 
6000 service manual has the schematics for the 3rd gen 8Mhz board.  I have not 
seen schematics for the 2nd gen 6Mhz board.  I suspect it can be found in the 
Model 16B service manual, but that manual is as rare as two-headed ballerina.  
I have yet to find one.

> Will TRSDOS-16 work on the 8 MHz board?
> 

Yes, the 8Mhz board will run all known Tandy 68k OSes.

Re: Looking for TRS-80 Model parts (and/or someone in the Phoenix, AZ area)

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

Pete

> On May 1, 2017, at 1:49 PM, Jim Brain  wrote:
> 
>> On 4/24/2017 6:55 AM, Peter Cetinski wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> You can find the MC68000 board set (you’ll need a CPU board and at least 
>>> one memory board) on eBay quite often.  In most cases, it will be the Model 
>>> 16 6Mhz board which will allow you to run TRS-XENIX 1.x.  If you’re lucky, 
>>> you’ll find the Model 6000 8Mhz board which will allow you to run Xenix 
>>> 3.2.  
> Information I have now suggests Xenix 3.2 will run on the 6MHz boards, but 
> does need the massive RAM.  Does anyone have Xenix disks and a 1MHz 12 or 16B 
> and can test?
> 
> Jim
> 

You will need the PAL upgrade to get the 6Mhz board to run Xenix 3.x. This is 
documented in the Model 16 tech bulletins you can find in the model2archive.  
But, the required PAL chips are pretty much unobtanium now.  There is a seller 
on eBay who had a few upgraded 6Mhz boards for sale recently.  He may still 
have some.

The 8mhz boards are similarly unobtanium.

The Xenix 1.x and 3.x disk images can all be found in the model2archive.

Re: TRS-80 Model 12 versus 16B

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

> On Apr 25, 2017, at 11:46 PM, Alan Hightower via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know if the 16 keyboard circuitry will work with a 16B if I
> created a custom cable? 

Yes, it can work with a wire rearrangement and gender swap on the DIN.  See 
this thread for details.

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?48159-Model-II-Keyboard-Differences-Further-Analysis=Keyboard

Re: TRS-80 Model 12 versus 16B

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

> On Apr 25, 2017, at 10:52 PM, Jim Brain  wrote:
> 
> So, the 16B has the KB conn on the machine, but the KB?
> And, the 16B has the Z80 motherboard, witht eh 68K in the cage?

16B keyboard is the same as the 12.  Cord is on the KB with a male connector.  
Female is on the machine.
16B has the same main board as the 12 with 68K in the cage.  Notice I use "main 
board" as technically the cage board was referred to as the motherboard in 
these machines.

>> 
>> The 6000 released in 1985 was a slightly enhanced 16B with the biggest 
>> difference being the upgrade to an 8Mhz MC68000.  This system allowed you to 
>> run XENIX 3.x and address up to 1MB of RAM.
> I thought the 16B could also do 1MB of RAM?

16B was factory maxed at 768k but I’m pretty sure 1MB is fine.

> 
> Can the 6000 still run the Z80 Oses (like TRSDOS II and such)?  (I assume so, 
> since you noted that all units of this entire line used a Z80 for IO)

Yes, the 6000 can run all previous software.

> Jim
> 

Re: TRS-80 Model 12 versus 16B

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

The Model 16 was introduced in 1982 and was an upgraded Model II with the 
addition of an MC68000 subsystem that allowed you to run 16bit OSes, like 
TRSDOS-16, CPM-68K and TRSXENIX 1.x.  On all Tandy 68K machines and operating 
systems the z80 ran in concert with the 68k.  The z80 handled all I/O as the 
68k subsystem did not have direct access to any I/O ports.  The 2 CPUs would 
talk through shared memory and interrupts. The Model 16 also had the first 
appearance of the TM-848 thin line drives, white case and superior green screen 
CRT.

The Model 12 was introduced in 1983 as the next version of the Model II.  It 
was considered the base Tandy business system.  The case dimensions were 
somewhat larger than the previous II/16. It had a simplified architecture in 
that the entire Z80 system was now on a single main board instead of the 4 
separate cards of the Model II.  A base Model 12 has a lot of empty space 
inside as it was meant to be optionally upgraded with the card cage if you 
needed a hard drive or 68K functionality.  It also had the new lower profile 
keyboard with reverse gender connector compared to the II/16.

The 16B released around 1984 is essentially a factory upgraded Model 12 with 
the card cage and the 6Mhz MC68000 subsystem consisting of a CPU card and 1 or 
more 16 bit memory cards.  The 16B for a time was the best selling Unix 
workstation in the world.

The 6000 released in 1985 was a slightly enhanced 16B with the biggest 
difference being the upgrade to an 8Mhz MC68000.  This system allowed you to 
run XENIX 3.x and address up to 1MB of RAM.



> On Apr 25, 2017, at 10:28 PM, Jim Brain  wrote:
> 
> Been trying to Google things, but not having a lot of luck.  I understand 
> both are white case, both have slimline drives, 12 had no card cage, I think 
> I read somewhere that the 16 came with 68K std (no Z80?), and 12 had KB conn 
> on case, 16B had KB conn on KB. Beyond that, though, would love more 
> information.
> 
> Lots of info on 2 and 6000, but not so much on the intermediate machines.
> 
> Jim
> 
> 

Re: Looking for TRS-80 Model parts (and/or someone in the Phoenix, AZ area)

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

> On Apr 24, 2017, at 11:36 AM, Jim Brain  wrote:
> 
> For now, since the KB is most needed and somewhat hard to find, and since I 
> design HW for classic machines, I think a small uC and some wire might tide 
> me over until I can find a reasonably priced KB. I did a quick check, but 
> have not seen any writeup of the protocol and keyscan matrix. Does such a 
> thing exist?

I haven't seen such although I know a few folks with ambitions of such project. 
 I can put you in touch if they're not actively listening to this list and want 
to chime in.

Re: Looking for TRS-80 Model parts (and/or someone in the Phoenix, AZ area)

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

> On Apr 24, 2017, at 11:49 AM, Jim Brain  wrote:
> 
> I'll email off-list about disks, as I truly know so little about the unit, 
> I'm not sure what to ask for.

Certainly.

> 
> Are you considering going to Assembly? If so, I'd defer to your exhibit, as 
> you know much more about these units.

Yes, I'm one of the founders. :)
> 
> I'd like to at least try out the XENIX side, if I can. Linux on a 386 is 
> nice, but it's just not the same. 
> 
Agree completely.  There's nothing like running a true Unix descendent on 
legacy hardware.

> I suspect all of the drives will need attention, but I could be surprised.

More likely than not especially give the condition you mention.  The TM-848s 
are not the most hearty of drives.

Re: Looking for TRS-80 Model parts (and/or someone in the Phoenix, AZ area)

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

> 
> In a message dated 4/23/2017 8:14:33 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
> cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:
> 
> Just  picked up a TRS-80 Model 12, and it boot to the "insert disk 
> prompt" ...  Yay!
> 
> But, no card cage, and no KB (and no disks, but those might be  easier to 
> find)
> 
> I'd like to get this unit up to the Model 16 specs,  with Xenix on it.  I 
> see the cards are available, but without the  cage, no joy.
> 
> 
> Jim

Jim, I’m glad to see you picked up those Model 12s.  I was watching Stevie’s 
CocoFest livestream and could not believe Model 12s showed up at the auction!  
I was thinking what a good deal you got!  Wish I was there.

I have a Model II/16 disk service I offer for free if you’re interested.  

http://pski.net/trs-80-model-ii-archive-project/ 


You can find the MC68000 board set (you’ll need a CPU board and at least one 
memory board) on eBay quite often.  In most cases, it will be the Model 16 6Mhz 
board which will allow you to run TRS-XENIX 1.x.  If you’re lucky, you’ll find 
the Model 6000 8Mhz board which will allow you to run Xenix 3.2.  Finding a 
card cage is the hard part.  These are extremely rare but do pop up from time 
to time.  There is another option called the Hans-02 and 03 adapters created by 
Hans Rietveld which is a modern replacement for the card cage.  You can find 
them on Ian Mavric’s site.

http://ianmav.customer.netspace.net.au/Hans/ 


I’m happy to hear you’re thinking about bringing a working example of one of 
these to Tandy Assembly.  The 8” Tandy’s are an important part of computing 
history that sometimes don’t get the respect they deserve.  For those of you 
that may not have heard about it, TA is happening in October 2017.

http://www.tandyassembly.com/ 

Re: cctech Digest, Vol 34, Issue 15

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

> On Apr 16, 2017, at 8:13 PM, Tim Mann via cctech  
> wrote:
> 
> I hadn't heard of the MISE or M3SE before, so I googled. Remarkable
> projects. It's pretty tempting to get an M3SE to play with on the Model 4P
> that I bought as a reference platform when I was adding 4P support to xtrs.
> (I don't have any other physical TRS-80s anymore.) Time continues to be a
> big problem in the way of doing retrocomputing stuff, though.
> 

Good to hear from you, Tim.  Speaking as someone else with the lack of time 
issue these days, the M3SE makes using the TRS-80 so much simpler and easier 
that you get to actually spend time using it rather than spending your little 
spare time getting it working.

Re: MISE and M3SE

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

> On Apr 15, 2017, at 11:05 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Well, now that I know there are TRS-80 afficianados here i wonder if there
> are any MISE/M3SE experts?  I have both running here now and really like
> them.  But, back in the "good ole days" I was priomarily a DOSPLUS user
> with a little NEWDOS80 once in a while.  I was wondering if it is possible
> to get either or both of these DOSes working with the MISE & M3SE.  
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> bill

Bill, there is a MISE yahoo group that Peter Bartlett maintains and actively 
supports so you may want to ask there.  But, I can tell you that MISE/M3SE 
utilize quite a bit of custom driver code so it would be a significant effort 
to support other OSes.  However, its probably best to ask the creator himself.

Re: TRS-80 curiosity

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

> On Apr 14, 2017, at 11:15 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org> 
> wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 14 Apr 2017, Peter Cetinski via cctalk wrote:
>> The EI expansion port was originally called the Screen Printer port because 
>> that was the only accessory that connected directly to the TRS-80 bus.
> 
> Originally.
> 
> Later, the Voice Output device (repackaged Votrax?) used the bus connector.
> Later, the Voice Input device used the bus connector.
> 

Correct, originally.  

Lot’s of 3rd party devices that connected to the bus appeared soon thereafter.  
A few interesting ones I have other than the Voice Synthesizer and the Vox Box 
are an Exatron Stringy Floppy and a Cryptext hardware encryption device.

Re: TRS-80 curiosity

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

> On Apr 14, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk 
>  wrote
> 
> Sorry, I didn't see any cable in that item.  Just an extremely overpriced 
> printer.
> 
> Or should I say firestarter?
> 
> bill
> 
Here's the pic of the cable

http://imgur.com/UhvJ2Ed

Re: TRS-80 curiosity

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

On Apr 14, 2017, at 9:11 AM, Kelly Leavitt via cctalk  
wrote:
> 
>> On another note, the box is labeled "To EI Screen Printer Port".
>> Not sure what that means as the EI has a "Line Printer Card Edge"
>> and not something specific to the Screen Printer.
> 
> Well, that explains it all then.
> 
> http://www.trs-80.org/trs-80-screen-printer/
> 
> The screen printer connected to the expansion interface via a dedicated 
> cable. 

The EI expansion port was originally called the Screen Printer port because 
that was the only accessory that connected directly to the TRS-80 bus.
I’m not sure if this cable was for the Screen Printer as I always thought that 
was a straight through cable.  But, the manuals do not indicate either way.

Re: TRS-80 Model 1 Expansion Interface question?

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

> On Mar 20, 2017, at 8:46 PM, Win Heagy via cctech  
> wrote:
> 
> Is there any reason why this chip would be removed?  I see a number of them
> on ebay for around $25.  The expansion interface hardware manual indicates
> it is an FD1771B-01, but the service manual indicates a couple
> possibilitiesFD1771 A/B -01 -11.  Any considerations to look for here?
> 

The EI may have had a double density board which plugs into the FDC chip 
socket.  The FDC chip then plugs into the doubler.  Without the doubler you 
only have single density.  Original Percom or Tandy doublers are fairly rare to 
find today so someone may have pulled it out to sell.  Ian Mavric in Australia 
does make reproductions though.