[cctalk] Re: reset "pulse" stretcher need
On 12/7/2022 12:06 PM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: Just glue the contactor thingy back onto the motor spindle. Done. Not done, as that's not the concern I am trying to address. I realize my posting is not fully on topic, but if you are annoyed, just don't respond and delete. Jim
[cctalk] Re: reset "pulse" stretcher need
On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 12:47 PM Jim Brain via cctalk wrote: > On 12/7/2022 11:28 AM, Mike Stein via cctalk wrote: > > I don't suppose there's an extra NC contact on the motor switch/relay? If > > so, a relay would do, otherwise two relays. > > Sadly, no relay at all. > > Since I was afraid of being off topic on the list, I hesitated to annoy > folks with too much detail, but it's unfair to those helping, so my > apologies. > > The device in question is a 1960's era NuTone 8 note door chime > (doorbell). I don't know the exact model, but here are some links to > similar units: > Given the constraints, I would use a time-delay relay like this, which will hold the relay for X amount of time after the input is released: https://www.zoro.com/dayton-encapsulated-timer-relay-1a-solid-state-5wml4/i/G1233267/ That one wants a contact closure for the input it appears, but there are other ones that take AC and DC inputs instead. Pat
[cctalk] Re: reset "pulse" stretcher need
Just glue the contactor thingy back onto the motor spindle. Done. Back to vintage computers. On Wed, Dec 7, 2022, 9:47 AM Jim Brain via cctalk wrote: > On 12/7/2022 11:28 AM, Mike Stein via cctalk wrote: > > I don't suppose there's an extra NC contact on the motor switch/relay? If > > so, a relay would do, otherwise two relays. > > Sadly, no relay at all. > > Since I was afraid of being off topic on the list, I hesitated to annoy > folks with too much detail, but it's unfair to those helping, so my > apologies. > > The device in question is a 1960's era NuTone 8 note door chime > (doorbell). I don't know the exact model, but here are some links to > similar units: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbOVmMVrSTg > > > http://northsideforyourhome.squarespace.com/nutone-vintage-door-chime/nutone-lb42-westminster-8-note-chime/ > > I admit I grew up in a later period and I have lived under a rock for > part of my life, so I did not know such cool devices were once sold. > > If you can excuse the terrible narration, I put a small video together > to go over the unit, since I'd never seen such a cool piece of kit > before (living under the rock, so to speak). > > https://youtu.be/HhGMhiAjmRU > > The motor in question is a 3.6RPM "clock" motor, as far as I can tell. > It runs the "program", and the front doorbell switch engages the motor > momentarily to start the process. > > I came upon this slice of home ownership by way of my sister and brother > in law, who hosted thanksgiving at their "new to them" home, which looks > to have not been renovated since it was built in the early 1970's. This > chime, in addition to an 8 room NuTone intercom system, are installed in > the home to this day. All of us think the system is impressive and must > be kept in the home. It actually took us a while to find this, as I > offhandedly commented we had to knock on the door since the lighted > doorbell didn't seem to do anything, which prompted BIL to note they had > lived there for a month and had yet to find the door bell in the home > (the lighted front button heavily suggested in operating unit > somewhere). We finally found it in the entryway, disguised as a part of > the Intercom system (made by the same company). We were unsuccessful in > diagnosing the issue in the moment, but I was able to take the unit home > to work on it. > > As the video notes, I was able to determine and address the immediate > issue, but I notice the timing issue I wanted to solve it before > returning the unit. The video was mainly to explain to my sister and > BIL what had been wrong with the unit. > > Given the nature of the unit, the switch has to remain a NO SPST, and > I'd really prefer to not rewire the switch and disconnect it from the > 24VAC, since some buttons assume they are being driven with 24VAC. I > also prefer not to make any non removable changes to the unit. I > figured adding something to the terminals is easily removeable and thus > fair game. > > It works as-is, but I can see people tapping the button too fast and > then my BIL deciding to replace the unit after annoying friends or > missing packages. > > Jim > > -- > Jim Brain > br...@jbrain.com > www.jbrain.com > >
[cctalk] Re: reset "pulse" stretcher need
On 12/7/2022 11:28 AM, Mike Stein via cctalk wrote: I don't suppose there's an extra NC contact on the motor switch/relay? If so, a relay would do, otherwise two relays. Sadly, no relay at all. Since I was afraid of being off topic on the list, I hesitated to annoy folks with too much detail, but it's unfair to those helping, so my apologies. The device in question is a 1960's era NuTone 8 note door chime (doorbell). I don't know the exact model, but here are some links to similar units: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbOVmMVrSTg http://northsideforyourhome.squarespace.com/nutone-vintage-door-chime/nutone-lb42-westminster-8-note-chime/ I admit I grew up in a later period and I have lived under a rock for part of my life, so I did not know such cool devices were once sold. If you can excuse the terrible narration, I put a small video together to go over the unit, since I'd never seen such a cool piece of kit before (living under the rock, so to speak). https://youtu.be/HhGMhiAjmRU The motor in question is a 3.6RPM "clock" motor, as far as I can tell. It runs the "program", and the front doorbell switch engages the motor momentarily to start the process. I came upon this slice of home ownership by way of my sister and brother in law, who hosted thanksgiving at their "new to them" home, which looks to have not been renovated since it was built in the early 1970's. This chime, in addition to an 8 room NuTone intercom system, are installed in the home to this day. All of us think the system is impressive and must be kept in the home. It actually took us a while to find this, as I offhandedly commented we had to knock on the door since the lighted doorbell didn't seem to do anything, which prompted BIL to note they had lived there for a month and had yet to find the door bell in the home (the lighted front button heavily suggested in operating unit somewhere). We finally found it in the entryway, disguised as a part of the Intercom system (made by the same company). We were unsuccessful in diagnosing the issue in the moment, but I was able to take the unit home to work on it. As the video notes, I was able to determine and address the immediate issue, but I notice the timing issue I wanted to solve it before returning the unit. The video was mainly to explain to my sister and BIL what had been wrong with the unit. Given the nature of the unit, the switch has to remain a NO SPST, and I'd really prefer to not rewire the switch and disconnect it from the 24VAC, since some buttons assume they are being driven with 24VAC. I also prefer not to make any non removable changes to the unit. I figured adding something to the terminals is easily removeable and thus fair game. It works as-is, but I can see people tapping the button too fast and then my BIL deciding to replace the unit after annoying friends or missing packages. Jim -- Jim Brain br...@jbrain.com www.jbrain.com
[cctalk] Re: reset "pulse" stretcher need
I don't suppose there's an extra NC contact on the motor switch/relay? If so, a relay would do, otherwise two relays. m On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 12:40 AM Jim Brain via cctalk wrote: > This might be a bit off topic, so forgive me if so. > > The issue is a 24VAC motor with one connection to 24VAC and the other > gated via two switches. The first switch is a momentary one and the > second is in parallel and connected to the motor. A long enough > momentary depression on the first switch actuates the electric motor > enough to close the second switch, which then stays closed for 1 > revolution. > > The problem is that a quick enough press and release of the first switch > does not allow the motor to move far enough to close the second switch. > > Given the configuration, my general plan was a small one shot timer > circuit that energized when the switch was initially depressed and then > closed a relay in parallel with the first 2 switches, with a time period > that was 1/10 to 1/2 the time of the motor revolution. a quick close and > release of the first switch would start the timer, which would then > close the parallel switch and then open it a short time later, and then > the motor switch, which would still be closed, could signal the end of > the cycle. > > But, I thought I'd ask around and see if a simpler option was available. > > Jim > > -- > > Jim Brain > br...@jbrain.com > www.jbrain.com > >
[cctalk] Re: reset "pulse" stretcher need
On 12/7/2022 8:43 AM, Patrick Finnegan wrote: My two thoughts would be: 1) A 555-timer in one-shot mode That was my thought as well. 2) An S-R latch at is set by the push button, and cleared by 2nd switch Due to the vintage nature of the device, separating the switches and wiring them this way would require doing some invasive modification of the unit, and it's not mine to modify. Though, I agree with other comments, this S-R latch idea is a cool one. Pat -- Jim Brain br...@jbrain.com www.jbrain.com
[cctalk] Re: reset "pulse" stretcher need
That latch idea is neat! Both should work a treat. Anders On Wed, Dec 7, 2022, 9:44 AM Patrick Finnegan via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 12:40 AM Jim Brain via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > wrote: > > > This might be a bit off topic, so forgive me if so. > > > > The issue is a 24VAC motor with one connection to 24VAC and the other > > gated via two switches. The first switch is a momentary one and the > > second is in parallel and connected to the motor. A long enough > > momentary depression on the first switch actuates the electric motor > > enough to close the second switch, which then stays closed for 1 > > revolution. > > > > The problem is that a quick enough press and release of the first switch > > does not allow the motor to move far enough to close the second switch. > > > > Given the configuration, my general plan was a small one shot timer > > circuit that energized when the switch was initially depressed and then > > closed a relay in parallel with the first 2 switches, with a time period > > that was 1/10 to 1/2 the time of the motor revolution. a quick close and > > release of the first switch would start the timer, which would then > > close the parallel switch and then open it a short time later, and then > > the motor switch, which would still be closed, could signal the end of > > the cycle. > > > > My two thoughts would be: > > 1) A 555-timer in one-shot mode > 2) An S-R latch at is set by the push button, and cleared by 2nd switch > > Pat >
[cctalk] Re: reset "pulse" stretcher need
On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 12:40 AM Jim Brain via cctalk wrote: > This might be a bit off topic, so forgive me if so. > > The issue is a 24VAC motor with one connection to 24VAC and the other > gated via two switches. The first switch is a momentary one and the > second is in parallel and connected to the motor. A long enough > momentary depression on the first switch actuates the electric motor > enough to close the second switch, which then stays closed for 1 > revolution. > > The problem is that a quick enough press and release of the first switch > does not allow the motor to move far enough to close the second switch. > > Given the configuration, my general plan was a small one shot timer > circuit that energized when the switch was initially depressed and then > closed a relay in parallel with the first 2 switches, with a time period > that was 1/10 to 1/2 the time of the motor revolution. a quick close and > release of the first switch would start the timer, which would then > close the parallel switch and then open it a short time later, and then > the motor switch, which would still be closed, could signal the end of > the cycle. > My two thoughts would be: 1) A 555-timer in one-shot mode 2) An S-R latch at is set by the push button, and cleared by 2nd switch Pat
