Re: Alphaservers for free in Athabasca, Alberta
On 06/08/2019 16:38, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
The VAX 11/780 definitely had PDP-11 emulation, apparently in the
microcode. I'm kind of guessing the 750 and 730 also had this. As far
as I know, no later machines had hardware (microcode) emulation, and
did it all by software. It didn't take very long for DEC to recompile
all the VMS utilities into native VAX executables. I think we started
with VMS 3.x and very quickly updated to a 4.1 VMS version. I was not
aware of any PDP-11 code in them, but I did not look very closely.
The VAX-11/7xx all implemented PDP-11 compatibility mode, I think.
That's VAX-11/780, VAX-11/725/730, VAX-11/750 and VAX 8600 (which was at
one point going to be VAX-11/790). The VAX 8650 was a souped up VAX 8600
[1] so that almost certainly has PDP-11 compatibility mode. Nothing else
does. The VAX 82x0/83x0/85x0/8700/8800/88x0 don't.
Antonio
[1] Actually I think that the VAX 8600 ("Venus") was slowed down to get
it reliable enough to ship at all (and it was quite late at that, iirc).
The VAX 8650 ("Morningstar") followed just over a year later and was
(more or less) what the original VAX 8600 should have been.
--
Antonio Carlini
anto...@acarlini.com
PDP-11 Emulation on VAX Was Re: Alphaservers for free in Athabasca, Alberta
If I am not mistaken the 8600/50 were the last VAXen to feature PDP-11 emulation. After VMS 3.x the functionality was dropped so it was very short lived on the 8600. Ray
Re: Alphaservers for free in Athabasca, Alberta
On 08/06/2019 03:42 AM, Dave Wade via cctalk wrote: -Original Message- From: cctalk On Behalf Of Grant Taylor via cctalk Sent: 06 August 2019 04:25 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Alphaservers for free in Athabasca, Alberta On 8/5/19 8:40 PM, ben via cctalk wrote: Now why could it not be a nice little PDP 11. I thought that it could be if it was running emulation software. Or was that more that the VAX-11 could emulate a PDP-11 up to a specific version & hardware combination? (Read: Did this functionality not get carried forward to the Alphas?) I think it went from the VAX fairly early in the model range. I don't believe that any of the MicroVax machines implemented this. The VAX Architecture manual The VAX 11/780 definitely had PDP-11 emulation, apparently in the microcode. I'm kind of guessing the 750 and 730 also had this. As far as I know, no later machines had hardware (microcode) emulation, and did it all by software. It didn't take very long for DEC to recompile all the VMS utilities into native VAX executables. I think we started with VMS 3.x and very quickly updated to a 4.1 VMS version. I was not aware of any PDP-11 code in them, but I did not look very closely. Jon
Re: Alphaservers for free in Athabasca, Alberta
> On Aug 5, 2019, at 11:41 PM, Richard Loken via cctalk > wrote: > > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] > > On Mon, 5 Aug 2019, Boris Gimbarzevsky wrote: > >> A mere 579 miles from Kamloops. Unfortunately have to talk to my wife who >> thinks I have too many computers even though I've given away bulk of my DEC >> stuff. Never got a chance to play around on Alpha as it came out during my >> Mac days. > > A mere 1,000km, South I assume since you gave the distance in miles but > I don't think you want a 7 foot rack of ES45s in your living room - the > power bill, the heat, and the fan noise would wear on you after a while. > > Without looking it up, I imagine I am about 1,000km the other way from > Kamloops. We could meet in the middle, have a beer together, and trade > trailers. :) > -- > Richard Loken VE6BSV : "...underneath those tuques we wear, > Athabasca, Alberta Canada : our heads are naked!" > ** rllo...@telus.net ** :- Arthur Black Or… what about: Seattle computer museum sets it up in their “mainframes” area with opposed mirrors on either side, making it look like it’s one of an infinite row of racks in the world’s fastest supercomputer installation? Just thinking.
RE: Alphaservers for free in Athabasca, Alberta
> -Original Message- > From: cctalk On Behalf Of Grant Taylor via > cctalk > Sent: 06 August 2019 04:25 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Alphaservers for free in Athabasca, Alberta > > On 8/5/19 8:40 PM, ben via cctalk wrote: > > Now why could it not be a nice little PDP 11. > > I thought that it could be if it was running emulation software. > > Or was that more that the VAX-11 could emulate a PDP-11 up to a specific > version & hardware combination? (Read: Did this functionality not get carried > forward to the Alphas?) > I think it went from the VAX fairly early in the model range. I don't believe that any of the MicroVax machines implemented this. The VAX Architecture manual http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/vax/archSpec/EY-3459E-DP_VAX_Architecture_Reference_Manual_1987.pdf (page 289) simply says its an optional feature without saying which models had it... Dave > > > -- > Grant. . . . > unix || die
Re: Alphaservers for free in Athabasca, Alberta
On Mon, 5 Aug 2019, Boris Gimbarzevsky wrote: A mere 579 miles from Kamloops. Unfortunately have to talk to my wife who thinks I have too many computers even though I've given away bulk of my DEC stuff. Never got a chance to play around on Alpha as it came out during my Mac days. A mere 1,000km, South I assume since you gave the distance in miles but I don't think you want a 7 foot rack of ES45s in your living room - the power bill, the heat, and the fan noise would wear on you after a while. Without looking it up, I imagine I am about 1,000km the other way from Kamloops. We could meet in the middle, have a beer together, and trade trailers. :) -- Richard Loken VE6BSV: "...underneath those tuques we wear, Athabasca, Alberta Canada : our heads are naked!" ** rllo...@telus.net ** :- Arthur Black
Re: Alphaservers for free in Athabasca, Alberta
Had to give away my Minc system with 2 RLO2 drives and 2 RK03 drives but it did go to a good home. Have a couple of 11/23 systems left but have been in storeage long enough that can't fire them up without first totally going over power supplies as large electrolytics don't age well. My wife is after me to get rid of "old stuff" but it's the most fun to use and easiest to repair. May have to placate her by getting rid of my collection of 80x86 PC's which can now be easily replaced by Propeller systems for data acquisition applications. On 8/5/2019 6:51 PM, Boris Gimbarzevsky via cctalk wrote: A mere 579 miles from Kamloops. Unfortunately have to talk to my wife who thinks I have too many computers even though I've given away bulk of my DEC stuff. Never got a chance to play around on Alpha as it came out during my Mac days. Now why could it not be a nice little PDP 11. Ben.
Re: Alphaservers for free in Athabasca, Alberta
On 8/5/19 8:40 PM, ben via cctalk wrote: Now why could it not be a nice little PDP 11. I thought that it could be if it was running emulation software. Or was that more that the VAX-11 could emulate a PDP-11 up to a specific version & hardware combination? (Read: Did this functionality not get carried forward to the Alphas?) -- Grant. . . . unix || die
Re: Alphaservers for free in Athabasca, Alberta
On Mon, 5 Aug 2019, ben via cctalk wrote: Now why could it not be a nice little PDP 11. Ben. I once had a pDp11/04 which I let go, it did not seem like much at the time but now I feel differantly. -- Richard Loken VE6BSV: "...underneath those tuques we wear, Athabasca, Alberta Canada : our heads are naked!" ** rllo...@telus.net ** :- Arthur Black
Re: Alphaservers for free in Athabasca, Alberta
On 8/5/2019 6:51 PM, Boris Gimbarzevsky via cctalk wrote: A mere 579 miles from Kamloops. Unfortunately have to talk to my wife who thinks I have too many computers even though I've given away bulk of my DEC stuff. Never got a chance to play around on Alpha as it came out during my Mac days. Now why could it not be a nice little PDP 11. Ben.
Re: Alphaservers for free in Athabasca, Alberta
A mere 579 miles from Kamloops. Unfortunately have to talk to my wife who thinks I have too many computers even though I've given away bulk of my DEC stuff. Never got a chance to play around on Alpha as it came out during my Mac days. I have access to 3 ES45s, a DS15, and an RA8000 in a tall blue Compaq rack in Athabasca, Alberta. All the in-service disks were removed but all the spares are available. The box also has the fibre switches used the connect the RA8000 to the servers and the cables, much of the paper documentation, and assorted doodads. It would probably work if plugged in but it has been a year since it was turned off. Athabasca, Alberta is about 1.000km North of the US Montana border and 10,000km from nowhere but it is summer and the weather is nice so we might be able to load this great heavy beast on a trailer and haul it up to a day's drive away if anybody want this stuff. This is rural Alberta so a day's drive is a l-o-n-g way (like 1,000km?). I tried to give this away in early 2019 but the deal fell through. If I don't get a place to send it then I will keep the DS15 and convert the rest of it into scrap metal. -- Richard Loken VE6BSV: "...underneath those tuques we wear, Athabasca, Alberta Canada : our heads are naked!" ** rllo...@telus.net ** :- Arthur Black
Re: Alphaservers for free in Athabasca, Alberta
On 8/5/19 12:50 PM, Mark Linimon via cctalk wrote: On Mon, Aug 05, 2019 at 10:39:01AM -0600, Richard Loken via cctalk wrote: Athabasca, Alberta is about 1.000km North of the US Montana border and 10,000km from nowhere And 2,248 miles from my house, according to Google Maps :-) I'll bet it would be a pretty road trip but I think I'll have to pass ... I have been most of the way there. Passenger in an RV from Seattle to Edson, AB and back and I have flown to Edmonton and driven to Edson. It is pretty, particularly when someone else is driving. I live around 10 miles from Seth, so it the same 14-15 hour trip that he would have. The Bay Area is closer. And I have no room anyway. But so tempting. alan
Re: Alphaservers for free in Athabasca, Alberta
On Mon, Aug 05, 2019 at 10:39:01AM -0600, Richard Loken via cctalk wrote: > Athabasca, Alberta is about 1.000km North of the US Montana border > and 10,000km from nowhere And 2,248 miles from my house, according to Google Maps :-) I'll bet it would be a pretty road trip but I think I'll have to pass ... mcl
Re: Alphaservers for free in Athabasca, Alberta
> On Aug 5, 2019, at 1:03 PM, Seth Morabito via cctalk > wrote: > > I'm tempted, but... I don't know where I'd put it. I'm clean out of room for > a whole rack :( Seth, you just need to think about this objectively. Alphaserver rack ….. refrigerator. Which will give you more pleasure in the long run? Glad to help out there. :-) > I do hope someone rescues it. Seriously, *SO* strongly seconded… San Antonio is a long way from Athabasca. Sigh. - Mark
Re: Alphaservers for free in Athabasca, Alberta
On Mon, Aug 5, 2019, at 9:39 AM, Richard Loken via cctalk wrote: > I have access to 3 ES45s, a DS15, and an RA8000 in a tall blue Compaq rack > in Athabasca, Alberta. All the in-service disks were removed but all the > spares are available. The box also has the fibre switches used the connect > the RA8000 to the servers and the cables, much of the paper documentation, > and assorted doodads. It would probably work if plugged in but it has been > a year since it was turned off. That's a really impressively beefy Alpha setup. I just did the math, and Athabasca is about a 14 hour drive from here in Seattle. I'm tempted, but... I don't know where I'd put it. I'm clean out of room for a whole rack :( I do hope someone rescues it. Consider this a *nudge* to the group. If you have space, and means of transport, this is really worth picking up, so please go get it! -Seth -- Seth Morabito Poulsbo, WA w...@loomcom.com
Alphaservers for free in Athabasca, Alberta
I have access to 3 ES45s, a DS15, and an RA8000 in a tall blue Compaq rack in Athabasca, Alberta. All the in-service disks were removed but all the spares are available. The box also has the fibre switches used the connect the RA8000 to the servers and the cables, much of the paper documentation, and assorted doodads. It would probably work if plugged in but it has been a year since it was turned off. Athabasca, Alberta is about 1.000km North of the US Montana border and 10,000km from nowhere but it is summer and the weather is nice so we might be able to load this great heavy beast on a trailer and haul it up to a day's drive away if anybody want this stuff. This is rural Alberta so a day's drive is a l-o-n-g way (like 1,000km?). I tried to give this away in early 2019 but the deal fell through. If I don't get a place to send it then I will keep the DS15 and convert the rest of it into scrap metal. -- Richard Loken VE6BSV: "...underneath those tuques we wear, Athabasca, Alberta Canada : our heads are naked!" ** rllo...@telus.net ** :- Arthur Black
