RE: ESR meter recommendations.
I use a BK Precision 879B and can only say good things about it, saved me numerous times (and also exonerated components I thought were faulty). http://www.bkprecision.com/products/component-testers/879B-4-count-dual-display-handheld-lcr-meter-with-esr.html Looks like the Der EE is an even better deal for a very similar unit that even goes up to 100 kHz though. Marc >I really should get one. I have been thinking I need to get one every time I >get my head into anther PSU >and then everything is sorted out and the PSU seems to work fine and I forget >about it. I have been >looking at the DerEE DE-5000 which looks nice and has got good reviews as far >as I can tell. >What meter do you have and recommend? >/Mattis
Re: ESR meter recommendations.
On Sat, 23 Jan 2016, Mattis Lind wrote: 2016-01-23 13:54 GMT+01:00 Noel Chiappa : If you do a lot of work with analog components (and it sounds like you do), it's probably worth getting capacitance and ESR meters, they can be obtained (new) on eBay for not that much. I have one of each that I got that way; their quality is pretty good, considering how little I paid for them (I didn't think I'd be using them enough to make it worth paying out a lot for really good ones). I haven't used the ESR meter much, but the capacitance meter works quite well, and has been very helpful. Of course, it can't be used in-circuit, but... Yes. agree with you.I really should get one. I have been thinking I need to get one every time I get my head into anther PSU and then everything is sorted out and the PSU seems to work fine and I forget about it. I have been looking at the DerEE DE-5000 which looks nice and has got good reviews as far as I can tell. What meter do you have and recommend? The one I absolutely cannot in good faith recommend (unless you are going to custom build it) is one that seems to come up in these discussions the most, and that is the Blue ESR from Anatek. The design itself isn't that bad, however Anatek used some of the worst junk-sourced parts I have ever seen when they kitted up the one I bought. I used the pre-programmed micro, the led displays, and most of the fixed value resistors, but junked most of the rest of the components they included and used my own. The trimmer resistors they included didn't even fit the pad layout of the board. The wire they included to make the "test leads" was also really bad quality and was wadded up and kinked. I fitted some shrouded banana jacks to my tester instead of the short hard wired leads. Another thing to keep in mind with the Blue ESR is that the firmware has a limitation and cannot measure small value capacitors (under 0.1uF?) and it also only goes down to 0.01 ohms.
Re: ESR meter recommendations.
On 1/23/2016 9:22 AM, Mattis Lind wrote: Yes. agree with you.I really should get oneWhat meter do you have and recommend? I use the BLUE ESR Meter of AnaTek Corp (designed by Bob Parker). I've been using it for several years and really like it. - J.
Re: ESR meter recommendations.
> From: Mattis Lind > What meter do you have and recommend? My capacitance meter is a Uyigao UA6013L, and I'm quite happy with it; it seems pretty reasonable build-quality. A number of people on eBay are selling them, IIRC. My ESR meter is, alas, literall nameless - I looked on both the meter, and the (single-sheet) documentation, and there's no name anywhere. (Yes, yes, I know, I got what I paid for - which was not much! :-) Noel
ESR meter recommendations.
2016-01-23 13:54 GMT+01:00 Noel Chiappa : > > From: Mattis Lind > > > I don't have an capacitance / ESR meter so I cannot check it. > > If you do a lot of work with analog components (and it sounds like you do), > it's probably worth getting capacitance and ESR meters, they can be > obtained > (new) on eBay for not that much. I have one of each that I got that way; > their quality is pretty good, considering how little I paid for them (I > didn't think I'd be using them enough to make it worth paying out a lot for > really good ones). I haven't used the ESR meter much, but the capacitance > meter works quite well, and has been very helpful. Of course, it can't be > used in-circuit, but... > > Yes. agree with you.I really should get one. I have been thinking I need to get one every time I get my head into anther PSU and then everything is sorted out and the PSU seems to work fine and I forget about it. I have been looking at the DerEE DE-5000 which looks nice and has got good reviews as far as I can tell. What meter do you have and recommend? > Alas, I can't (easily) help with the VT100 question! :-) > That's a pity! > > Noel > /Mattis
Re: ESR Meter Recommendations
On Wed, 30 Sep 2015, John Robertson wrote: On 09/30/2015 5:22 PM, Tothwolf wrote: I bought a kit from anatekcorp.com last year to replace my Dick Smith version that spouted legs and was rather disappointed with how it had been kitted up. A lot of the components were very low quality or did not fit the board properly, so I substituted my own. Even the 9V battery snap was made wrong (bad quality wire and the snap was made backwards). Another oddity was the kit included two 18 pin dip sockets instead of an 18 pin and a 16 pin (I used some 3M dual wipe sockets that I had anyway). One thing that really bothered me about the 'Blue ESR' variation compared to the original Dick Smith version was the lack of banana jacks, however I found some shrouded jacks which fit the blue Hammond enclosure. If there is any interest in the changes I made to my meter, I'll see about digging up my notes/parts list and the photos I took during assembly. The new kit makers seem to be doing a good job on fitting the kits out properly, had a little trouble with the first batch and they quickly sent me missing parts. Heck, I remember problems I had with Dick Smith kits back in the early 00s - missing circuit boards, wrong parts, etc. However DS (and Anatek) ALWAYS made good on shortages. It wasn't really a case of missing parts, just really poor quality parts apparently purchased in bulk based on price and little else (which may also be the reason why my kit had two 18 pin sockets in it). Some of the parts also looked suspiciously like the really junk stuff you find from the far-east eBay resellers. The capacitors they included did not match the lead spacing on the board (cheaper off-brand 5mm dia, 2mm ls parts instead of low profile 6.3mm dia 2.5mm ls), although I had no trouble at all finding the correct low-profile parts from Mouser that the board seemed to be designed for (IIRC, Nichicon SA and SR series electrolytics). Even the trimmer resistors were the wrong format for the board, which I replaced with some high quality Bourns parts that fit perfectly. Heck, even the Omron button cap was selected based on price...a tiny square cap intended to poke through a round hole? I used a larger round button cap from Omron. Plus Bob Parker is still helping folks with his kit, he has a great support site in AU for these kits. http://members.ozemail.com.au/~bobpar/esrmeter.htm (note the lack of twitter or facebook links - "This web page is for grownups"!) FYI the kit leads have banana sockets on them...so you can quick connect the optional probes or use your own. ...yeah. About that...those leads and banana plugs are *terrible*. Absolutely junk. [Not to mention if you plug the "banana plugs" they include into the test probes they offer, there is no safety shroud at the plug to probe connection.] The little short wires they included were kinked, sticky, and were /never/ going to work out well. Maybe they would be find for a hobbyist who uses the tool every once in awhile, but for daily use? No way. I also wanted to be able to use my Probe Master and Parrot Clip test leads with it. The original Dick Smith version had banana jacks, although they weren't shrouded and weren't standard 0.75" spacing, however the shrouded jacks I added to my Blue ESR meter are standard 0.75" spacing, so I can use double-banana plugs with them if I want to. I took lots of photos and notes with the intent to write up a full critical review of it, but I've just been too busy with other projects. My personal opinion is the fit and finish of the Blue ESR meter out of the box isn't up to par and they charge way too much for the kit to be substituting in low quality components.
Re: ESR Meter Recommendations
On 09/30/2015 5:22 PM, Tothwolf wrote: On Wed, 30 Sep 2015, John Robertson wrote: On 09/29/2015 2:59 PM, Jay West wrote: This is the one I have used for years. http://clientes.netvisao.pt/greenpal/evb1.htm About $88 USD That is an authorized Bob Parker variation of his original Dick Smith ESR meter kit. On this side of the pond they were made by Anatek until the owner was killed in an accident, then the series (now called the Blue ESR) is made by Alltronics and sold by dealers such as I. These all use Bob's licensed code, just different box and PCB layouts. If you want a Blue ESR I sell them on my web site's catalogue section, or you can order the EVB from Portugal if you are on the east side of the pond. I've been selling variations (evolution by intelligent design) of Bob's ESR meter kit since 1999! I bought a kit from anatekcorp.com last year to replace my Dick Smith version that spouted legs and was rather disappointed with how it had been kitted up. A lot of the components were very low quality or did not fit the board properly, so I substituted my own. Even the 9V battery snap was made wrong (bad quality wire and the snap was made backwards). Another oddity was the kit included two 18 pin dip sockets instead of an 18 pin and a 16 pin (I used some 3M dual wipe sockets that I had anyway). One thing that really bothered me about the 'Blue ESR' variation compared to the original Dick Smith version was the lack of banana jacks, however I found some shrouded jacks which fit the blue Hammond enclosure. If there is any interest in the changes I made to my meter, I'll see about digging up my notes/parts list and the photos I took during assembly. The new kit makers seem to be doing a good job on fitting the kits out properly, had a little trouble with the first batch and they quickly sent me missing parts. Heck, I remember problems I had with Dick Smith kits back in the early 00s - missing circuit boards, wrong parts, etc. However DS (and Anatek) ALWAYS made good on shortages. Plus Bob Parker is still helping folks with his kit, he has a great support site in AU for these kits. http://members.ozemail.com.au/~bobpar/esrmeter.htm (note the lack of twitter or facebook links - "This web page is for grownups"!) FYI the kit leads have banana sockets on them...so you can quick connect the optional probes or use your own. John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
RE: ESR Meter Recommendations
I have been using the BK Precision 879B: http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/bk-precision/lcr/879b.htm?ref=gbase&gclid= CKj82-uIoMgCFRNrfgodYOYOvA It's at a completely different price point ($250-ish), and much more than an ESR meter - but it's a bargain for a full R,C,L,Z meter. Very useful to know not only the ESR, but the actual value of the capacitance (which for big power supply caps could have diminished significantly over the years). It can measure components at 100Hz, 1000Hz and 10Khz. You could not justify it for a single power supply repair, but if you do a lot of old electronics restoration projects, it is a precious tool to have. I couldn't live without it now. You can see it in action in the middle of this video here, in this case exonerating a capacitor that I sure thought was the cause of my power problem, but turned out to be perfectly good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqD6xVI6qNs Marc == From: Ken Seefried Subject: ESR Meter Recommendations I'm going to be working on my 11/730s power supply, so I'm in the market for an ESR meter. I've seen some (older) recommendations for the AnaTek 'Blue' and various 'Dick Smith' derivatives. However, eBay is flooded with knockoff Mega328 based ESR/Transistor/SCR/etc. testers all looking like: http://www.amazon.com/DROK-Multifunction-Mega328-Transistor-Capacitor/dp/B00 NKY3M1W/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1443561246&sr=8-16&keywords=esr+meter Anyone had any experience with one of these devices? KJ =
RE: ESR Meter Recommendations
On Wed, 30 Sep 2015, Jay West wrote: Question - I could be mistaken, but I think someone mentioned that these were not good for testing caps that had a higher operating voltage. Is that correct? My understanding was that the testing method used by this ESR meter was valid for most all the large electrolytics...? You can measure the ESR of any capacitor, however for large filter capacitors, a leakage tester is likely to be more important.
Re: ESR Meter Recommendations
On Wed, 30 Sep 2015, John Robertson wrote: On 09/29/2015 2:59 PM, Jay West wrote: This is the one I have used for years. http://clientes.netvisao.pt/greenpal/evb1.htm About $88 USD That is an authorized Bob Parker variation of his original Dick Smith ESR meter kit. On this side of the pond they were made by Anatek until the owner was killed in an accident, then the series (now called the Blue ESR) is made by Alltronics and sold by dealers such as I. These all use Bob's licensed code, just different box and PCB layouts. If you want a Blue ESR I sell them on my web site's catalogue section, or you can order the EVB from Portugal if you are on the east side of the pond. I've been selling variations (evolution by intelligent design) of Bob's ESR meter kit since 1999! I bought a kit from anatekcorp.com last year to replace my Dick Smith version that spouted legs and was rather disappointed with how it had been kitted up. A lot of the components were very low quality or did not fit the board properly, so I substituted my own. Even the 9V battery snap was made wrong (bad quality wire and the snap was made backwards). Another oddity was the kit included two 18 pin dip sockets instead of an 18 pin and a 16 pin (I used some 3M dual wipe sockets that I had anyway). One thing that really bothered me about the 'Blue ESR' variation compared to the original Dick Smith version was the lack of banana jacks, however I found some shrouded jacks which fit the blue Hammond enclosure. If there is any interest in the changes I made to my meter, I'll see about digging up my notes/parts list and the photos I took during assembly.
Re: ESR Meter Recommendations
Good primer paper from Sencore (manufacturer of instruments, not capacitors..) on the nature, causes and effects of ESR: http://patriotgaming.com/manuals/gaming_monitors/sencore_instruments/LC103/TT104-4416.pdf On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 5:50 PM, drlegendre . wrote: > "How are > folks testing the very large electrolytics in the 25,000, 80,000 or even > 100,000 uF range that are encountered in the power supplies of some of > these old machines?" > > The method I use is pretty close to what you mention, though I lack an > electronic load. Here are some thoughts... > > For measuring capacity - on these rather large-value caps, it's quite > acceptable to time their discharge rate through a known, stable resistance > of some reasonable value based on the marked capacitance. Make several runs > and average them out. Calculating value is then simple arithmetic - C=T/R. > > For leakage, I use a variable voltage-regulated PSU with current-viewing > resistor in series. At what percent of marked voltage does leakage clear > the noise? At what voltage does it become significant and at what point > does it exceed allowable? All electrolytics leak, and the larger value the > part, the more expected leakage. Check a datasheet, or just use your > experience and make educated guesses - hint: how much power (as in heat > rejection) is the cap dissipating at working voltages vs. its marked value > and physical size? > > And as you suggest, watching supply ripple on the scope, with the cap > under some nominal load, is a tried & true method. It's usually my first > step, if I think a cap might be in trouble. > > (I was certain that I'd have to replace the 30 yr-old 95,000uF part in my > Altair.. but the dang thing proofed out just fine. Ran it for a day at 10% > over working voltage, and leakage sat right where it was when I began the > test. ) > > On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 1:35 PM, Chris Elmquist wrote: > >> On Wednesday (09/30/2015 at 10:54AM -0700), John Robertson wrote: >> > >> > As for testing large capacitors, about the highest value that gives >> useful >> > readings is around 10,000ufd. Larger than that and the ESR is too close >> to >> > zero ohms unless the cap is really bad... >> >> And that seems to be the usual situation for most ESR meters. How are >> folks testing the very large electrolytics in the 25,000, 80,000 or even >> 100,000 uF range that are encountered in the power supplies of some of >> these old machines? >> >> One approach I use has been to isolate the supply and then fire it up >> with an electronic load while looking at voltage sag and ripple on a >> scope while that load is swept from min to max capability of the supply. >> >> There is also the Sencore LC53 "Z Meter" which can test large caps up >> to 200,000 uF out of circuit but these are typically a $400+ instrument >> on the used market. >> >> http://bama.edebris.com/download/sencore/lc53/LC53%20OPS.pdf >> >> Chris >> -- >> Chris Elmquist NØJCF >> >> >
Re: ESR Meter Recommendations
"How are folks testing the very large electrolytics in the 25,000, 80,000 or even 100,000 uF range that are encountered in the power supplies of some of these old machines?" The method I use is pretty close to what you mention, though I lack an electronic load. Here are some thoughts... For measuring capacity - on these rather large-value caps, it's quite acceptable to time their discharge rate through a known, stable resistance of some reasonable value based on the marked capacitance. Make several runs and average them out. Calculating value is then simple arithmetic - C=T/R. For leakage, I use a variable voltage-regulated PSU with current-viewing resistor in series. At what percent of marked voltage does leakage clear the noise? At what voltage does it become significant and at what point does it exceed allowable? All electrolytics leak, and the larger value the part, the more expected leakage. Check a datasheet, or just use your experience and make educated guesses - hint: how much power (as in heat rejection) is the cap dissipating at working voltages vs. its marked value and physical size? And as you suggest, watching supply ripple on the scope, with the cap under some nominal load, is a tried & true method. It's usually my first step, if I think a cap might be in trouble. (I was certain that I'd have to replace the 30 yr-old 95,000uF part in my Altair.. but the dang thing proofed out just fine. Ran it for a day at 10% over working voltage, and leakage sat right where it was when I began the test. ) On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 1:35 PM, Chris Elmquist wrote: > On Wednesday (09/30/2015 at 10:54AM -0700), John Robertson wrote: > > > > As for testing large capacitors, about the highest value that gives > useful > > readings is around 10,000ufd. Larger than that and the ESR is too close > to > > zero ohms unless the cap is really bad... > > And that seems to be the usual situation for most ESR meters. How are > folks testing the very large electrolytics in the 25,000, 80,000 or even > 100,000 uF range that are encountered in the power supplies of some of > these old machines? > > One approach I use has been to isolate the supply and then fire it up > with an electronic load while looking at voltage sag and ripple on a > scope while that load is swept from min to max capability of the supply. > > There is also the Sencore LC53 "Z Meter" which can test large caps up > to 200,000 uF out of circuit but these are typically a $400+ instrument > on the used market. > > http://bama.edebris.com/download/sencore/lc53/LC53%20OPS.pdf > > Chris > -- > Chris Elmquist NØJCF > >
Re: ESR Meter Recommendations
I can put in another vote of confidence for this one. I have one from Portugal (because I didn’t know about the this-side-of-the-pond source) and it works as advertised. - Mark On Sep 30, 2015, at 12:54 PM, John Robertson wrote: > On 09/30/2015 7:14 AM, Jay West wrote: >> John wrote >> >> That is an authorized Bob Parker variation of his original Dick Smith ESR >> meter kit. On this side of the pond they were made by Anatek until the owner >> was killed in an accident, then the series (now called the Blue ESR) is made >> by Alltronics and sold by dealers such as I. These all use Bob's licensed >> code, just different box and PCB layouts. >> >> If you want a Blue ESR I sell them on my web site's catalogue section, or >> you can order the EVB from Portugal if you are on the east side of the pond. >> >> I've been selling variations (evolution by intelligent design) of Bob's ESR >> meter kit since 1999! >> >> That is great info, thanks! >> >> Question - I could be mistaken, but I think someone mentioned that these >> were not good for testing caps that had a higher operating voltage. Is that >> correct? My understanding was that the testing method used by this ESR meter >> was valid for most all the large electrolytics...? >> >> J >> >> > > As for testing large capacitors, about the highest value that gives useful > readings is around 10,000ufd. Larger than that and the ESR is too close to > zero ohms unless the cap is really bad... > > One other unmentioned (I keep forgetting to add it to the list) benefit to > the meter is it does read down to 0.01 ohms which can be handy when looking > for shorts. > > Blue ESR Kit Manual: > > https://www.flippers.com/pdfs/BlueESR.pdf > > John :-#)# > > -- > John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 > Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) > www.flippers.com > "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" >
Re: ESR Meter Recommendations
On 09/30/2015 7:14 AM, Jay West wrote: John wrote That is an authorized Bob Parker variation of his original Dick Smith ESR meter kit. On this side of the pond they were made by Anatek until the owner was killed in an accident, then the series (now called the Blue ESR) is made by Alltronics and sold by dealers such as I. These all use Bob's licensed code, just different box and PCB layouts. If you want a Blue ESR I sell them on my web site's catalogue section, or you can order the EVB from Portugal if you are on the east side of the pond. I've been selling variations (evolution by intelligent design) of Bob's ESR meter kit since 1999! That is great info, thanks! Question - I could be mistaken, but I think someone mentioned that these were not good for testing caps that had a higher operating voltage. Is that correct? My understanding was that the testing method used by this ESR meter was valid for most all the large electrolytics...? J The only caveat is to discharge the capacitor first before testing. The meter does not like anything over 50VDC across the probes...tends to let the smoke out. You can use the Blue ESR meter to check the internal resistance of batteries - I suspect one could use that info to build a chart of remaining life in a lead acid battery or ni-cad, but I never tried that. Link for some background info: http://flippers.com/BlueEsr.html Sales... http://www.flippers.com/catalog/product_info.php/blue-meter-p-2 John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
Re: ESR Meter Recommendations
On 09/30/2015 7:14 AM, Jay West wrote: John wrote That is an authorized Bob Parker variation of his original Dick Smith ESR meter kit. On this side of the pond they were made by Anatek until the owner was killed in an accident, then the series (now called the Blue ESR) is made by Alltronics and sold by dealers such as I. These all use Bob's licensed code, just different box and PCB layouts. If you want a Blue ESR I sell them on my web site's catalogue section, or you can order the EVB from Portugal if you are on the east side of the pond. I've been selling variations (evolution by intelligent design) of Bob's ESR meter kit since 1999! That is great info, thanks! Question - I could be mistaken, but I think someone mentioned that these were not good for testing caps that had a higher operating voltage. Is that correct? My understanding was that the testing method used by this ESR meter was valid for most all the large electrolytics...? J As for testing large capacitors, about the highest value that gives useful readings is around 10,000ufd. Larger than that and the ESR is too close to zero ohms unless the cap is really bad... One other unmentioned (I keep forgetting to add it to the list) benefit to the meter is it does read down to 0.01 ohms which can be handy when looking for shorts. Blue ESR Kit Manual: https://www.flippers.com/pdfs/BlueESR.pdf John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
Re: ESR Meter Recommendations
On Wednesday (09/30/2015 at 10:54AM -0700), John Robertson wrote: > > As for testing large capacitors, about the highest value that gives useful > readings is around 10,000ufd. Larger than that and the ESR is too close to > zero ohms unless the cap is really bad... And that seems to be the usual situation for most ESR meters. How are folks testing the very large electrolytics in the 25,000, 80,000 or even 100,000 uF range that are encountered in the power supplies of some of these old machines? One approach I use has been to isolate the supply and then fire it up with an electronic load while looking at voltage sag and ripple on a scope while that load is swept from min to max capability of the supply. There is also the Sencore LC53 "Z Meter" which can test large caps up to 200,000 uF out of circuit but these are typically a $400+ instrument on the used market. http://bama.edebris.com/download/sencore/lc53/LC53%20OPS.pdf Chris -- Chris Elmquist NØJCF
Re: ESR Meter Recommendations
On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 12:31 PM, ben wrote: > On 9/30/2015 12:24 PM, W2HX wrote: > >> Essentially these are two different measurements meant to measure a >> different property of the capacitor. Capacitors have many properties, >> many we know such as capacitance, working voltage, temp coefficient, >> etc. Add to that list both leakage current (parallel resistance) and >> ESR (series resistance). They tell you different things about the >> capacitor's behavior. >> >> Hope this helps. Regards Eugene >> > Unless he's testing a flux capacitor... > roll that bench to 88 miles an hour Since they made 3 of them, we can conclude that flux capacitors have low ESR, yes? -- Charles
Re: ESR Meter Recommendations
On 9/30/2015 12:24 PM, W2HX wrote: Essentially these are two different measurements meant to measure a different property of the capacitor. Capacitors have many properties, many we know such as capacitance, working voltage, temp coefficient, etc. Add to that list both leakage current (parallel resistance) and ESR (series resistance). They tell you different things about the capacitor's behavior. Hope this helps. Regards Eugene Unless he's testing a flux capacitor... roll that bench to 88 miles an hour Ben.
RE: ESR Meter Recommendations
Essentially these are two different measurements meant to measure a different property of the capacitor. Capacitors have many properties, many we know such as capacitance, working voltage, temp coefficient, etc. Add to that list both leakage current (parallel resistance) and ESR (series resistance). They tell you different things about the capacitor's behavior. Hope this helps. Regards Eugene -Original Message- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Noel Chiappa Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2015 12:49 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu Subject: Re: ESR Meter Recommendations From: Eugene (W2HX) > to model this using ideal components, we show a resistor in parallel to > the capacitor ... This modeled parallel resistor represents the leakage > current. > ... > because it is not ideal, some power is dissipated. This dissipated > power is represented by a series resistance. Because an idealized > circuit with a cap and a resistor in series will not pass DC current, > this circuit must be tested at AC. So I'm slightly confused; you talk about the model being a parallel resistor (which I get), but then switch to a series resistor. Why the switch? Noel
Re: ESR Meter Recommendations
On 09/29/2015 2:59 PM, Jay West wrote: This is the one I have used for years. http://clientes.netvisao.pt/greenpal/evb1.htm About $88 USD J That is an authorized Bob Parker variation of his original Dick Smith ESR meter kit. On this side of the pond they were made by Anatek until the owner was killed in an accident, then the series (now called the Blue ESR) is made by Alltronics and sold by dealers such as I. These all use Bob's licensed code, just different box and PCB layouts. If you want a Blue ESR I sell them on my web site's catalogue section, or you can order the EVB from Portugal if you are on the east side of the pond. I've been selling variations (evolution by intelligent design) of Bob's ESR meter kit since 1999! John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
RE: ESR Meter Recommendations
John wrote That is an authorized Bob Parker variation of his original Dick Smith ESR meter kit. On this side of the pond they were made by Anatek until the owner was killed in an accident, then the series (now called the Blue ESR) is made by Alltronics and sold by dealers such as I. These all use Bob's licensed code, just different box and PCB layouts. If you want a Blue ESR I sell them on my web site's catalogue section, or you can order the EVB from Portugal if you are on the east side of the pond. I've been selling variations (evolution by intelligent design) of Bob's ESR meter kit since 1999! That is great info, thanks! Question - I could be mistaken, but I think someone mentioned that these were not good for testing caps that had a higher operating voltage. Is that correct? My understanding was that the testing method used by this ESR meter was valid for most all the large electrolytics...? J
Re: ESR Meter Recommendations
>> to model this using ideal components, [...] > So I'm slightly confused; you talk about the model being a parallel > resistor (which I get), but then switch to a series resistor. Why > the switch? The two resistors model two different ways in which a capacitor is not ideal. The parallel resistor models DC leakage; the series resistor models losses in AC current through the capacitor. The term "ESR" refers to only the second one; it stands for, IIRC, Equivalent Series Resistance. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
Re: ESR Meter Recommendations
From: Eugene (W2HX) > to model this using ideal components, we show a resistor in parallel to > the capacitor ... This modeled parallel resistor represents the leakage > current. > ... > because it is not ideal, some power is dissipated. This dissipated > power is represented by a series resistance. Because an idealized > circuit with a cap and a resistor in series will not pass DC current, > this circuit must be tested at AC. So I'm slightly confused; you talk about the model being a parallel resistor (which I get), but then switch to a series resistor. Why the switch? Noel
RE: ESR Meter Recommendations
Just to clarify a little more (at the risk of being explaining things everyone already knows)... In an ideal capacitor, after the capacitor has charged, all DC current is blocked. However, when applying a DC voltage to a real capacitor, some small current will continue to flow as electrons pass through the dielectric because the dielectric is not ideal. So to model this using ideal components, we show a resistor in parallel to the capacitor that represents the amount of current that continues to flow even though the capacitor is supposed to be blocking. This modeled parallel resistor represents the leakage current. In this case, it is important to test at the working voltage of the circuit (which is usually lower than the working voltage of the capacitor itself with some margin of safety). This is because the current through a resistor is dependent on the voltage across it. Now, at AC, a capacitor will pass current and lead the voltage across it. In an ideal capacitor, no power would be dissipated. However, because it is not ideal, some power is dissipated. This dissipated power is represented by a series resistance. Because an idealized circuit with a cap and a resistor in series will not pass DC current, this circuit must be tested at AC. And the most accurate result will be achieved at the working frequency of the circuit, again, typically 120 Hz (or 2xline frequency). I hope this helps someone Eugene -Original Message- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of W2HX Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2015 8:10 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: RE: ESR Meter Recommendations It seems you may be using two terms interchangeably that have different meanings. Leakage is parallel resistance (DC) and ESR is series resistance (actually impedance so it is frequency dependent. Typically 120 Hz with a full wave bridge rectifier in front of it). -Original Message- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of drlegendre . Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2015 12:11 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: ESR Meter Recommendations Ken, I have two of the Atmega328 uC based 'swissknife' testers you mention, cost about $25 ea. on eBay, and have been exceptionally happy with them. They're a brilliant little piece of instrumentation, and IMHO no electronics hobbyist should be without one. For quick testing & ID of SS components, they're just the ticket. Secondly, I have one of these units: http://midwestdevices.com/ - "Capacitor Wizard". They are also quite useful, and have some nice features like a quick-reading analog scale and audible indicator allowing you to set an ESR threshold and then test eyes-off the meter. This can be a real safety measure, if you're working deep inside a chassis. They are a bit overpriced for what you get, though, IMHO. If you're mainly interested in testing for leakage in caps, and want to test them +at+ real working voltages, then you need a device like a Heathkit IT-28 or its Eico / Paco equivalent. Note that these are all "LCR bridges" with leakage test as an added feature. The Heath unit goes to 600V DC, not sure of the others. Finally, there are the "in circuit capacitor checkers" made by Paco and possibly Heath / Eico. These are semi-useful, but in reality, they are pretty dang obsolete - and for some reason, folks pay a lot for them on eBay.. no idea why. Thing is, to really peg down any ESR trouble, you always need to disconnect one end anyway (in case of circuit loading or other fault) - so what's the real value of "in circuit" in that case? HTH On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 5:34 PM, TeoZ wrote: > Never used one on a power supply but for motherboard capacitors and > misc parts they work fine. For the price they are worth having around. > > -Original Message- From: Ken Seefried > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2015 5:24 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: ESR Meter Recommendations > > I'm going to be working on my 11/730s power supply, so I'm in the > market for an ESR meter. I've seen some (older) recommendations for > the AnaTek 'Blue' and various 'Dick Smith' derivatives. However, eBay > is flooded with knockoff Mega328 based ESR/Transistor/SCR/etc. testers > all looking like: > > > http://www.amazon.com/DROK-Multifunction-Mega328-Transistor-Capacitor/ > dp/B00NKY3M1W/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1443561246&sr=8-16&keywords=esr+ > meter > > Anyone had any experience with one of these devices? > > KJ > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > >
Re: ESR Meter Recommendations
Holm Tiffe wrote: > Ken Seefried wrote: > > > I'm going to be working on my 11/730s power supply, so I'm in the > > market for an ESR meter. I've seen some (older) recommendations for > > the AnaTek 'Blue' and various 'Dick Smith' derivatives. However, eBay > > is flooded with knockoff Mega328 based ESR/Transistor/SCR/etc. testers > > all looking like: > > > > http://www.amazon.com/DROK-Multifunction-Mega328-Transistor-Capacitor/dp/B00NKY3M1W/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1443561246&sr=8-16&keywords=esr+meter > > > > Anyone had any experience with one of these devices? > > > > KJ > > I own a old precise russian LCR Bridge and I have two of the modern > Atmega328 based "Transistor Testers" that both will do the job at least for > smaller capacitors, but I mostly use a simple homebuild ESR Meter like > this: > http://ludens.cl/Electron/esr/esr.html > > I know, that isn't a precision device but it is what you mostly need: a > fast good/bad test solution. > > Because of its small measuring voltage of approx 200mV PN junctions don't > get opened so that you can quick check electrolytics in the circuit w/o > desoldering them fist. > The used transformer in my case is a small ferrite transformer from an old > PC-PSU (driver circuit). I coud use it w/o to change anything. > > Regards, > > Holm > -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlfT9LEMbV4 Regards, Holm -- Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583 www.tsht.de, i...@tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
Re: ESR Meter Recommendations
Ken Seefried wrote: > I'm going to be working on my 11/730s power supply, so I'm in the > market for an ESR meter. I've seen some (older) recommendations for > the AnaTek 'Blue' and various 'Dick Smith' derivatives. However, eBay > is flooded with knockoff Mega328 based ESR/Transistor/SCR/etc. testers > all looking like: > > http://www.amazon.com/DROK-Multifunction-Mega328-Transistor-Capacitor/dp/B00NKY3M1W/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1443561246&sr=8-16&keywords=esr+meter > > Anyone had any experience with one of these devices? > > KJ I own a old precise russian LCR Bridge and I have two of the modern Atmega328 based "Transistor Testers" that both will do the job at least for smaller capacitors, but I mostly use a simple homebuild ESR Meter like this: http://ludens.cl/Electron/esr/esr.html I know, that isn't a precision device but it is what you mostly need: a fast good/bad test solution. Because of its small measuring voltage of approx 200mV PN junctions don't get opened so that you can quick check electrolytics in the circuit w/o desoldering them fist. The used transformer in my case is a small ferrite transformer from an old PC-PSU (driver circuit). I coud use it w/o to change anything. Regards, Holm -- Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583 www.tsht.de, i...@tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
RE: ESR Meter Recommendations
It seems you may be using two terms interchangeably that have different meanings. Leakage is parallel resistance (DC) and ESR is series resistance (actually impedance so it is frequency dependent. Typically 120 Hz with a full wave bridge rectifier in front of it). -Original Message- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of drlegendre . Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2015 12:11 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: ESR Meter Recommendations Ken, I have two of the Atmega328 uC based 'swissknife' testers you mention, cost about $25 ea. on eBay, and have been exceptionally happy with them. They're a brilliant little piece of instrumentation, and IMHO no electronics hobbyist should be without one. For quick testing & ID of SS components, they're just the ticket. Secondly, I have one of these units: http://midwestdevices.com/ - "Capacitor Wizard". They are also quite useful, and have some nice features like a quick-reading analog scale and audible indicator allowing you to set an ESR threshold and then test eyes-off the meter. This can be a real safety measure, if you're working deep inside a chassis. They are a bit overpriced for what you get, though, IMHO. If you're mainly interested in testing for leakage in caps, and want to test them +at+ real working voltages, then you need a device like a Heathkit IT-28 or its Eico / Paco equivalent. Note that these are all "LCR bridges" with leakage test as an added feature. The Heath unit goes to 600V DC, not sure of the others. Finally, there are the "in circuit capacitor checkers" made by Paco and possibly Heath / Eico. These are semi-useful, but in reality, they are pretty dang obsolete - and for some reason, folks pay a lot for them on eBay.. no idea why. Thing is, to really peg down any ESR trouble, you always need to disconnect one end anyway (in case of circuit loading or other fault) - so what's the real value of "in circuit" in that case? HTH On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 5:34 PM, TeoZ wrote: > Never used one on a power supply but for motherboard capacitors and > misc parts they work fine. For the price they are worth having around. > > -Original Message- From: Ken Seefried > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2015 5:24 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: ESR Meter Recommendations > > I'm going to be working on my 11/730s power supply, so I'm in the > market for an ESR meter. I've seen some (older) recommendations for > the AnaTek 'Blue' and various 'Dick Smith' derivatives. However, eBay > is flooded with knockoff Mega328 based ESR/Transistor/SCR/etc. testers > all looking like: > > > http://www.amazon.com/DROK-Multifunction-Mega328-Transistor-Capacitor/ > dp/B00NKY3M1W/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1443561246&sr=8-16&keywords=esr+ > meter > > Anyone had any experience with one of these devices? > > KJ > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > >
Re: ESR Meter Recommendations
Ken, I have two of the Atmega328 uC based 'swissknife' testers you mention, cost about $25 ea. on eBay, and have been exceptionally happy with them. They're a brilliant little piece of instrumentation, and IMHO no electronics hobbyist should be without one. For quick testing & ID of SS components, they're just the ticket. Secondly, I have one of these units: http://midwestdevices.com/ - "Capacitor Wizard". They are also quite useful, and have some nice features like a quick-reading analog scale and audible indicator allowing you to set an ESR threshold and then test eyes-off the meter. This can be a real safety measure, if you're working deep inside a chassis. They are a bit overpriced for what you get, though, IMHO. If you're mainly interested in testing for leakage in caps, and want to test them +at+ real working voltages, then you need a device like a Heathkit IT-28 or its Eico / Paco equivalent. Note that these are all "LCR bridges" with leakage test as an added feature. The Heath unit goes to 600V DC, not sure of the others. Finally, there are the "in circuit capacitor checkers" made by Paco and possibly Heath / Eico. These are semi-useful, but in reality, they are pretty dang obsolete - and for some reason, folks pay a lot for them on eBay.. no idea why. Thing is, to really peg down any ESR trouble, you always need to disconnect one end anyway (in case of circuit loading or other fault) - so what's the real value of "in circuit" in that case? HTH On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 5:34 PM, TeoZ wrote: > Never used one on a power supply but for motherboard capacitors and misc > parts they work fine. For the price they are worth having around. > > -Original Message- From: Ken Seefried > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2015 5:24 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: ESR Meter Recommendations > > I'm going to be working on my 11/730s power supply, so I'm in the > market for an ESR meter. I've seen some (older) recommendations for > the AnaTek 'Blue' and various 'Dick Smith' derivatives. However, eBay > is flooded with knockoff Mega328 based ESR/Transistor/SCR/etc. testers > all looking like: > > > http://www.amazon.com/DROK-Multifunction-Mega328-Transistor-Capacitor/dp/B00NKY3M1W/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1443561246&sr=8-16&keywords=esr+meter > > Anyone had any experience with one of these devices? > > KJ > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > >
Re: ESR Meter Recommendations
Never used one on a power supply but for motherboard capacitors and misc parts they work fine. For the price they are worth having around. -Original Message- From: Ken Seefried Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2015 5:24 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: ESR Meter Recommendations I'm going to be working on my 11/730s power supply, so I'm in the market for an ESR meter. I've seen some (older) recommendations for the AnaTek 'Blue' and various 'Dick Smith' derivatives. However, eBay is flooded with knockoff Mega328 based ESR/Transistor/SCR/etc. testers all looking like: http://www.amazon.com/DROK-Multifunction-Mega328-Transistor-Capacitor/dp/B00NKY3M1W/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1443561246&sr=8-16&keywords=esr+meter Anyone had any experience with one of these devices? KJ --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
RE: ESR Meter Recommendations
This is the one I have used for years. http://clientes.netvisao.pt/greenpal/evb1.htm About $88 USD J
RE: ESR Meter Recommendations
> -Original Message- > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ken > Seefried > Sent: 29 September 2015 22:24 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: ESR Meter Recommendations > > I'm going to be working on my 11/730s power supply, so I'm in the market for > an ESR meter. I've seen some (older) recommendations for the AnaTek > 'Blue' and various 'Dick Smith' derivatives. However, eBay is flooded with > knockoff Mega328 based ESR/Transistor/SCR/etc. testers all looking like: > The software is open source and as there is no single supplier "knock off" isn't perhaps appropriate.. > http://www.amazon.com/DROK-Multifunction-Mega328-Transistor- > Capacitor/dp/B00NKY3M1W/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1443561246&sr=8- > 16&keywords=esr+meter > > Anyone had any experience with one of these devices? I have one. I havn't used it for checking ESR but it works at a low voltage so it may not be effective on big caps. On the other hand this http://www.peakelec.co.uk/acatalog/jz_esr60.html retails for nearer $130 and when I checked it also measures at 3v. Lots more comments here:- http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/$20-lcr-esr-transistor-checker-project/ > > KJ Dave G4UGM
Re: ESR Meter Recommendations
Ken, I don't have personal experience with those but I can tell you those would only be good for the smaller electrolytics and not the big ones in the power supply. For those you will want an older capacitor tester made for big caps, Hallacrafters, Heathkit and Solar made ones that would go up to 500v in testing Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 29, 2015, at 5:24 PM, Ken Seefried wrote: > > I'm going to be working on my 11/730s power supply, so I'm in the > market for an ESR meter. I've seen some (older) recommendations for > the AnaTek 'Blue' and various 'Dick Smith' derivatives. However, eBay > is flooded with knockoff Mega328 based ESR/Transistor/SCR/etc. testers > all looking like: > > http://www.amazon.com/DROK-Multifunction-Mega328-Transistor-Capacitor/dp/B00NKY3M1W/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1443561246&sr=8-16&keywords=esr+meter > > Anyone had any experience with one of these devices? > > KJ
ESR Meter Recommendations
I'm going to be working on my 11/730s power supply, so I'm in the market for an ESR meter. I've seen some (older) recommendations for the AnaTek 'Blue' and various 'Dick Smith' derivatives. However, eBay is flooded with knockoff Mega328 based ESR/Transistor/SCR/etc. testers all looking like: http://www.amazon.com/DROK-Multifunction-Mega328-Transistor-Capacitor/dp/B00NKY3M1W/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1443561246&sr=8-16&keywords=esr+meter Anyone had any experience with one of these devices? KJ
