Re: HP 9000/382 Questions

[Gregory Beat via cctalk]

Just threw out all of my HP/UX v9 training manuals from that era, last year.
Reliable machine for the era when Intel 80386/80486 were the top processors.

greg

Sent from iPad Air

Re: HP 9000/382 Questions

[Pete Lancashire via cctalk]

An update

I acquired another 9000/382 with a hard drive. It booting into VUE and
eventually found out it is running HP-UX 9.10, As usual no root password.

I tried the -\ "hack" while a fsck was taking place and on the 2nd
try it dropped me into single user mode. From there the rest was easy

https://goo.gl/photos/rDN8bhjVxoeSCw7k8

Looks like a clean install of 9.10 with nothing else.

I'll do a dump of the drive and post the image when I get a chance, lots of
other projects going on.

Now to come up to speed on HP-UX and get it on the network.

Thanks to Frank Slootweg via comp.sys.hp.hpux for the keyboard characters
to try.

-pete



On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 2:00 AM, Christian Corti <
c...@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de> wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, Rik Bos wrote:
>
>> These tapes where used in a number of machine such as 9825, 9831, 9835,
>>> 9845,
>>> 9915, and 85A  There was also at least 1 external tape drive that
>>> used these
>>>
>> [...]
>
>> Aagh, I forgot about the HP85 some instrument programs where written for
>>
> [...]
>
> For me, the most obvious machines would be the HP264x terminals ;-)
> There are numerous software packaged on DC100 cartridges meant to be
> read/used with e.g. a HP2645 terminal attached to a HP system (HP1000 or
> HP3000)
>
> Christian
>
>

Re: HP 9000/380 console? software? (was Re: HP 9000/382 Questions)

[Eric Smith]

On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 12:10 AM, Rik Bos  wrote:
> Basic 6.2 is also on the site and can be run from flop.

I was only able to find a download for BASIC 6.2 for the "Measurement
Coprocessor" for the AT bus, which required its own special version,
not compatible with normal Series 200/300.

HP 9000/380 console? software? (was Re: HP 9000/382 Questions)

[Eric Smith]

I've borrowed an HP 9000/380 from a friend, along with a 9122D floppy
drive, but no software. It has an A1416A Color VRX DIO-II "Kathmandu"
video interface, but I'm hoping that I can just use the serial port as
a console. Does the DE9 serial console use the IBM pinout? Do I have
to pull the A1416A to get it to use the serial port as the console?

Is there any software that can be booted on it from the floppy, such
as perhaps non-HP-UX BASIC?

RE: HP 9000/382 Questions

[Christian Corti]

On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, Rik Bos wrote:

These tapes where used in a number of machine such as 9825, 9831, 9835, 9845,
9915, and 85A  There was also at least 1 external tape drive that used these

[...]
Aagh, I forgot about the HP85 some instrument programs where written for 

[...]

For me, the most obvious machines would be the HP264x terminals ;-)
There are numerous software packaged on DC100 cartridges meant to be 
read/used with e.g. a HP2645 terminal attached to a HP system (HP1000 or 
HP3000)


Christian

RE: HP 9000/380 console? software? (was Re: HP 9000/382 Questions)

[Rik Bos]

Eric,

Basic 6.2 is also on the site and can be run from flop.

-Rik 

-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: "Eric Smith" <space...@gmail.com>
Verzonden: ‎27-‎1-‎2016 00:27
Aan: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Onderwerp: Re: HP 9000/380 console? software? (was Re: HP 9000/382 Questions)

On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 3:25 PM, Rik Bos <hp-...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> The manual says you can't use a terminal on the internal serial port.

So only HP-UX can run on a headless machine (no keyboard and monitor)?

I guess I'll have to find a VGA-to-3-BNC cable. And I'm not sure
whether any of my LCD monitors or projector can handle sync-on-green,
but I guess I'll find out. My old Nokia 445Xi 20-inch CRT could, but I
no longer have it.

Worst case, I can build a sync separator board.

> You can boot Basic 5.1 or 6.2 from disc, on the hp museum site you can 
> download the images.

Thanks! I found Basic 5.1 and Pascal 3.1 there and downloaded them.
It would be nice to get newer versions, but as long as those work on
the /380 it will be sufficient. Next I need to get an older PC running
to use Teledisk. All of my modern PCs don't have a built in floppy
drive, and I normally use a USB 3.5" floppy drive, but USB floppies
don't support non-PC formats.

Re: HP 9000/380 console? software? (was Re: HP 9000/382 Questions)

[Paul Berger]

On 2016-01-26 6:25 PM, Rik Bos wrote:



-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] Namens Eric Smith
Verzonden: dinsdag 26 januari 2016 11:57
Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Onderwerp: HP 9000/380 console? software? (was Re: HP 9000/382 Questions)

I've borrowed an HP 9000/380 from a friend, along with a 9122D floppy drive,
but no software. It has an A1416A Color VRX DIO-II "Kathmandu"
video interface, but I'm hoping that I can just use the serial port as a 
console.
Does the DE9 serial console use the IBM pinout? Do I have to pull the A1416A to
get it to use the serial port as the console?

Is there any software that can be booted on it from the floppy, such as perhaps
non-HP-UX BASIC?

The manual says you can't use a terminal on the internal serial port.
You can boot Basic 5.1 or 6.2 from disc, on the hp museum site you can download 
the images.
This is the default boot disk they made should work for every 200/300 series. 
http://hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?sw=27
I'm not sure if you can run Pascal from a floppy disk.

-Rik



You can run Pascal from a diskette, but it runs into a lot of swapping 
diskettes unless you have a lot of drives.


Paul.

RE: HP 9000/382 Questions

[Rik Bos]

> A picture of an example tape
> 
> http://petelancashire.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=5246
> 
> -pete
> 

Pete,

Those are DC100A tapes used in the HP 98X5 series computers.
The programs are not compatible with the 9000/300 series.
I couldn't see the tape number on the label but I think it's a 9825A/B tape 
written in HPL.
Instrument software on this kind of tapes I've seen was written for the 9825.
You'll need a HP 9825 to read this tapes and copy them to a disk (8"  HP 9895A).
The tapes are very fragile, 90% the belts are stuck to the tape. 
And you need to warm the tape to about 50-60C to get the belt from the tape 
without peeling of the magnetic layer.
After that the belt needs to be reconditioned (see my earlier mail) and the 
tape may be needed to be baked (several hours in an oven at 55-60C).
After that you have only a few (1-6) passes to read the tape, before it becomes 
badly readable.
Replacing and removing the drive belt will need some practicing (I've done it).
When the programs are copied to disk it's possible to read them on a HP 
9000/200 series computer with HPL for the 200 series.
http://hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?sw=169
Which will not run on the 9000/382 or other processors higher/later than the 
68010.

-Rik

Re: HP 9000/382 Questions

[Pete Lancashire]

So sounds like

1. get a 9825 (or find someone that has one locally)

Reason for a 9825 is it is the only one with a tape drive that will read
the tapes

Is this correct ?

2. prep the tape(s)
3. copy the data from the tape to a 9895A -- any ever do a emulator ?
4. read the data/run with a 68010 based 200 series .. will the original 300
work ?

I've not taken a DC-100 apart but have done many DC-300's I've got a box of
DC-100's that I don't care what is on them, I'll find it and use one of the
tapes as a test case.

Looks like I've got a long ways to go 

-pete





On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 7:29 AM, Rik Bos  wrote:

>
>
> > A picture of an example tape
> >
> > http://petelancashire.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=5246
> >
> > -pete
> >
>
> Pete,
>
> Those are DC100A tapes used in the HP 98X5 series computers.
> The programs are not compatible with the 9000/300 series.
> I couldn't see the tape number on the label but I think it's a 9825A/B
> tape written in HPL.
> Instrument software on this kind of tapes I've seen was written for the
> 9825.
> You'll need a HP 9825 to read this tapes and copy them to a disk (8"  HP
> 9895A).
> The tapes are very fragile, 90% the belts are stuck to the tape.
> And you need to warm the tape to about 50-60C to get the belt from the
> tape without peeling of the magnetic layer.
> After that the belt needs to be reconditioned (see my earlier mail) and
> the tape may be needed to be baked (several hours in an oven at 55-60C).
> After that you have only a few (1-6) passes to read the tape, before it
> becomes badly readable.
> Replacing and removing the drive belt will need some practicing (I've done
> it).
> When the programs are copied to disk it's possible to read them on a HP
> 9000/200 series computer with HPL for the 200 series.
> http://hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?sw=169
> Which will not run on the 9000/382 or other processors higher/later than
> the 68010.
>
> -Rik
>
>
>
>

Re: HP 9000/382 Questions

[Paul Berger]

On 2016-01-25 2:55 PM, Pete Lancashire wrote:

So sounds like

1. get a 9825 (or find someone that has one locally)

Reason for a 9825 is it is the only one with a tape drive that will read
the tapes

Is this correct ?

2. prep the tape(s)
3. copy the data from the tape to a 9895A -- any ever do a emulator ?
4. read the data/run with a 68010 based 200 series .. will the original 300
work ?

I've not taken a DC-100 apart but have done many DC-300's I've got a box of
DC-100's that I don't care what is on them, I'll find it and use one of the
tapes as a test case.

Looks like I've got a long ways to go 

-pete


These tapes where used in a number of machine such as 9825, 9831, 9835, 
9845, 9915, and 85A  There was also at least 1 external tape drive 
that used these tapes not to mention DEC made a drive for them as well.  
If you hope to recover the data off the tapes you would probably need 
access to the system they where written on as the data format is not the 
same on all machines.


I can't think of any of the 68K 9000s that used DC100A tapes by then 
almost everything was diskettes 8", 5.25, and 3.5 where all supported 
however some of the early software for 200s was quite restricted in the 
formats supported.


The DC100A has the same arrangement inside as a DC-300 just smaller.  I 
have had some success replacing rotted drive belts with PLASTIBANDS.


Paul.

RE: HP 9000/382 Questions

[Rik Bos]

> -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
> Van: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] Namens Pete Lancashire
> Verzonden: maandag 25 januari 2016 19:55
> Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Onderwerp: Re: HP 9000/382 Questions
> 
> So sounds like
> 
> 1. get a 9825 (or find someone that has one locally)
> 
> Reason for a 9825 is it is the only one with a tape drive that will read the 
> tapes
> 
> Is this correct ?
> 
> 2. prep the tape(s)
> 3. copy the data from the tape to a 9895A -- any ever do a emulator ?
> 4. read the data/run with a 68010 based 200 series .. will the original 300 
> work ?
> 
> I've not taken a DC-100 apart but have done many DC-300's I've got a box of
> DC-100's that I don't care what is on them, I'll find it and use one of the 
> tapes as
> a test case.
> 
> Looks like I've got a long ways to go 
> 
> -pete
> 


Yes and no, you'll need a 9825B with the 98228A 9895/9885 Flexible Disc ROM an 
98034A/B HP-IB Interface and of cause a HP 9895A Disc drive ;)
And there will be a problem if there is a binary file on the tape, at the 
moment it is impossible to copy them, the 9825 is missing the tools to copy 
them. 
As far as I know an emulator isn't available (yet ?).
For which instrument do you have the tapes, I've some disc's for the HP 8566B 
and 68B SA's for RMB systems (HP 9000/200-300 Rocky Mountain Basic).
For some other equipment I should also have some files.
 
-Rik

Re: HP 9000/382 Questions

[Pete Lancashire]

Some pictures of the inside of 382 #1

http://petelancashire.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=5159

Sadly no HD to boot

I will try to bring home the other two.

-pete

On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 9:42 AM, Glen Slick  wrote:

> As already mentioned, you should start off looking at
> http://www.hpmuseum.net for documentation and software for the HP
> 9000/382
>
> I obtained an .ISO image of the HP-UX 9.0 installation CD-ROM there
> along with HP BASIC 6.2 images, both stand alone BASIC and BASIC/UX.
> There are currently no direct download links for those images. Jon
> Johnston there has been great about responding to requests for images
> if you send him an email.
>
> The SCSI hard drive in my 9000/382 was dead when I received it. It was
> fairly straight forward to install HP-UX 9.0 from scratch on a
> replacement hard drive from a SCSI CD-ROM. I forget how much memory
> mine had when I received. I found some additional memory to install
> and that helped with performance running HP-UX 9.0.  I don't think I
> ever got around to trying to use HP BASIC to control any GPIB
> interface test equipment yet.
>
>

RE: HP 9000/382 Questions

[Rik Bos]

> -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
> Van: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] Namens Pete Lancashire
> Verzonden: zondag 24 januari 2016 5:37
> Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Onderwerp: Re: HP 9000/382 Questions
> 
> Some pictures of the inside of 382 #1
> 
> http://petelancashire.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=5159
> 
> Sadly no HD to boot
> 
> I will try to bring home the other two.
> 
> -pete
> 

Pete,

The VGA is IIRC SOG (Sync On Green) not all monitors support this.
If you have a HP-IB/GP-IB interface for a PC you can use Ansgars HPDrive to 
boot.
It's found at www.hp9845.net .
Also the drives used in the 9000/38X series are single ended scsi of external 
Fast HP-IB.
If you download the HP Basic 51. or 6.2 from the HP Computer Museum website you 
can boot of a the internal floppy drive and at least you know if the basics 
work.
http://hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?sw=27
Even without a keyboard this should boot and come to the start screen.

-Rik

Re: HP 9000/382 Questions

[Pete Lancashire]

A picture of an example tape

http://petelancashire.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=5246

-pete

On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 12:59 PM, Rik Bos  wrote:

>
>
> > If I read the doc's correctly I only have the medium resolution system
> board, pity
> > the graphics where not a daughter board.
> >
> > No problem with building a sync separator.
> >
> > My goal list to use the thing as a GPIB controller. Have quite a few HP
> > diagnostics that are on tape (and will need to get a tape drive) that
> make
> > extensive use of HP Basic.
> >
> > Final use  is as a bench controller for the same instruments
> >
> > -pete
> >
>
> What kind of tapes do you have?
> DC100A (HP 98200A) are in most cases not compatible with the 9000/200-300
> series because they contain HP 9825A?B programs or 9835/45 programs.
> The DC300 like quick tapes like the HP 88140SC / 150 Ft.  or HP 88140LC /
> 600 Ft. 16 track tapes uses the HP 9144A or compatible drives.
> For HP-UX systems HP used DAT tapes in the 90'th but I'm not sure if they
> also used them for instrument verification and test programs.
> The programs I have are all on disc.
> Before you put your old quick tapes in a drive you need to check if the
> drive belt is in good condition, if the tension is to low it will ruin the
> tape.
> Drive belts can be retentioned by putting them in hot water >70C the belt
> will shrink then and go back to the right tension.
> If you use the search function on the site you can find a mail from
> Christian Corti describing the procedure.
>
> -Rik
>
>
>
>

Re: HP 9000/382 Questions

[Chris Osborn]

On Jan 24, 2016, at 4:18 AM, Rik Bos  wrote:

> The VGA is IIRC SOG (Sync On Green) not all monitors support this.
> If you have a HP-IB/GP-IB interface for a PC you can use Ansgars HPDrive to 
> boot.
> It's found at www.hp9845.net .

I have an HP 9000/360 and I don't have an HP-HIL keyboard or sync on green 
monitor either. I was able to get a console through the built-in RS-232 port 
and made it boot NetBSD over ethernet using a Linux box as a server.

--
Follow me on twitter: @FozzTexx
Check out my blog: http://insentricity.com

RE: HP 9000/382 Questions

[Rik Bos]

> If I read the doc's correctly I only have the medium resolution system board, 
> pity
> the graphics where not a daughter board.
> 
> No problem with building a sync separator.
> 
> My goal list to use the thing as a GPIB controller. Have quite a few HP
> diagnostics that are on tape (and will need to get a tape drive) that make
> extensive use of HP Basic.
> 
> Final use  is as a bench controller for the same instruments
> 
> -pete
> 

What kind of tapes do you have?
DC100A (HP 98200A) are in most cases not compatible with the 9000/200-300 
series because they contain HP 9825A?B programs or 9835/45 programs.
The DC300 like quick tapes like the HP 88140SC / 150 Ft.  or HP 88140LC / 600 
Ft. 16 track tapes uses the HP 9144A or compatible drives.
For HP-UX systems HP used DAT tapes in the 90'th but I'm not sure if they also 
used them for instrument verification and test programs.
The programs I have are all on disc.
Before you put your old quick tapes in a drive you need to check if the drive 
belt is in good condition, if the tension is to low it will ruin the tape.
Drive belts can be retentioned by putting them in hot water >70C the belt will 
shrink then and go back to the right tension.
If you use the search function on the site you can find a mail from Christian 
Corti describing the procedure.

-Rik

HP 9000/382 Questions

[Pete Lancashire]

Hello from a newbie to the list

I've just acquired 2 HP 382's with expanders. Have not had the time to look
inside them yet.

End goal is to set one up as an instrument controller i.e. using the built
in GPIB and potentially a 2nd GPIB card.

One thing I do not have is a display, keyboard and mouse.

A few question

Is there a PS/2 or USB (yea long shot) adapter for the HPIL interface ?

Does someone have a keyboard/mouse they a not beholding to, or know
where there maybe one ?

Once I get the opened up and take an inventory, anything I should look out
for be trying to power one of them up ?

Can one boot to a terminal on the RS-232 port. Until I find a kbd/mouse ?

What would be optimum version of HP-UX to run on them ?

-pete

Re: HP 9000/382 Questions

[Paul Berger]

On 2016-01-22 4:52 PM, Pete Lancashire wrote:

Hello from a newbie to the list

I've just acquired 2 HP 382's with expanders. Have not had the time to look
inside them yet.

End goal is to set one up as an instrument controller i.e. using the built
in GPIB and potentially a 2nd GPIB card.

One thing I do not have is a display, keyboard and mouse.

A few question

Is there a PS/2 or USB (yea long shot) adapter for the HPIL interface ?

Does someone have a keyboard/mouse they a not beholding to, or know
where there maybe one ?

Once I get the opened up and take an inventory, anything I should look out
for be trying to power one of them up ?

Can one boot to a terminal on the RS-232 port. Until I find a kbd/mouse ?

What would be optimum version of HP-UX to run on them ?

-pete
Wow great find, those are nice 9000s, I have been looking for one with 
ethernet and SCSI.  You will find lots of documentation for them at 
hpmuseum.net.  It would seem that the display interface is standard VGA, 
however as you discovered the keyboard is HP-HIL.


HP did make a PS/2 adapter module, however it would seem they are 
extremely rare, I would like to get one too.  I have also though of 
building my own, the usual interface is a custom chip made by HP that 
handles most of the protocol, that is coupled with a National 
Semiconductor COP series microcontroller using the microwire interface, 
I have some of these obtained from other HIL devices, the one that is 
the most promising is from an ID module it has all of the HIL hardware 
in it and a ROM-less COP420 so all of its code is in an external EPROM 
making it easy to alter.   There is documentation available for the 
HP-HIL protocol.


There are HP-HIL keyboards and mice available on eBay but they are not 
cheap.


The 382 apparently has space for internal disks so you may be in luck 
and find it still has an OS installed, the 382 owner guide I found says 
the minimum level of HP-UX is 8.0, I would guess that at some point HP 
stopped supporting the 68K machines but I am not sure when that happened.


I looked through the users guide and there is no mention of using a 
serial console, however is there is an OS installed it is possible that 
a serial port could be set up as a workstation.


Paul.

Re: HP 9000/382 Questions

[Glen Slick]

As already mentioned, you should start off looking at
http://www.hpmuseum.net for documentation and software for the HP
9000/382

I obtained an .ISO image of the HP-UX 9.0 installation CD-ROM there
along with HP BASIC 6.2 images, both stand alone BASIC and BASIC/UX.
There are currently no direct download links for those images. Jon
Johnston there has been great about responding to requests for images
if you send him an email.

The SCSI hard drive in my 9000/382 was dead when I received it. It was
fairly straight forward to install HP-UX 9.0 from scratch on a
replacement hard drive from a SCSI CD-ROM. I forget how much memory
mine had when I received. I found some additional memory to install
and that helped with performance running HP-UX 9.0.  I don't think I
ever got around to trying to use HP BASIC to control any GPIB
interface test equipment yet.