Megaprocessor
This gigantic, $53,000 hobbyist-built computer is making the rounds on Facebook: http://gizmodo.com/guy-spends-four-years-50k-building-giant-computer-to-1783190283?utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook&utm_source=gizmodo_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow A relay one from a few years ago: http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~harry/Relay/ -- Eric Christopherson
Re: Megaprocessor
Blinkenlight heaven ;-) Sent from my iPad > On Jul 8, 2016, at 12:19 AM, Eric Christopherson > wrote: > > This gigantic, $53,000 hobbyist-built computer is making the rounds on > Facebook: > http://gizmodo.com/guy-spends-four-years-50k-building-giant-computer-to-1783190283?utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook&utm_source=gizmodo_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow > > A relay one from a few years ago: http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~harry/Relay/ > > -- >Eric Christopherson
Re: Megaprocessor
On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 5:19 PM, Eric Christopherson wrote: > This gigantic, $53,000 hobbyist-built computer is making the rounds on > Facebook: > http://gizmodo.com/guy-spends-four-years-50k-building-giant-computer-to-1783190283?utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook&utm_source=gizmodo_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow Yes, Facebook users tends to be slow. This was discussed here already last year: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2015-June/008493.html -- Regards, Torfinn Ingolfsen
Megaprocessor - built from individual transistors
.Apologies if this has already been posted There seems to be someone building a processor from individual transistors: http://www.megaprocessor.com/index.html Estimated size: quite big! Antonio
Re: Megaprocessor - built from individual transistors
If I were going thru the trouble, I'd want build a TX-0 clone!
Re: Megaprocessor - built from individual transistors
Yes, I saw that on The Register today. Pretty impressive. I think it should be called a DuellProcessor. :-) Regards Rob On 23 June 2015 at 16:22, Antonio Carlini wrote: > .Apologies if this has already been posted > > There seems to be someone building a processor from individual transistors: > > http://www.megaprocessor.com/index.html > > Estimated size: quite big! > > Antonio > >
Re: Megaprocessor - built from individual transistors
Well if that don't take the biscuit for originality. Good luck to you sir. Its a living animated schematic. Rod On 23/06/2015 17:20, Phil Budne wrote: If I were going thru the trouble, I'd want build a TX-0 clone!
Re: Megaprocessor - built from individual transistors
On 2015-Jun-23, at 12:27 PM, Rod Smallwood wrote: > On 23/06/2015 17:20, Phil Budne wrote: >> If I were going thru the trouble, I'd want build a TX-0 clone! >> > Well if that don't take the biscuit for originality. The physical layout concept is actually quite similar to Harry Porter's relay machine: http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~harry/Relay/index.html > Good luck to you sir. Its a living animated schematic.
Re: Megaprocessor - built from individual transistors
This guy needs help. Send a busload of soldering techs armed with temp controlled metcals and about a ton of tin/lead solder On 23/06/2015 19:37, Jarratt RMA wrote: Yes, I saw that on The Register today. Pretty impressive. I think it should be called a DuellProcessor. :-) Regards Rob On 23 June 2015 at 16:22, Antonio Carlini wrote: .Apologies if this has already been posted There seems to be someone building a processor from individual transistors: http://www.megaprocessor.com/index.html Estimated size: quite big! Antonio
Re: Megaprocessor - built from individual transistors
That one's been around for awhile. Ever watch any old reruns of 60's era "The Outer Limits"? When there's a computer involved, it's clickety-clackety of relays working. Old TV can be fun. The other day, I saw an episode of "Get Smart" showing a bank of CDC tape drives, followed by a "Mission Impossible" episode where Mr. Phelps receives his instructions via 4-track tape cartridge (which self-destructs as usual). --Chuck
Re: Megaprocessor - built from individual transistors
When it's done, I hope he mounts it all on a black rectangular table with 20 shiny metal legs on each the opposing longer sides. On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 5:28 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > That one's been around for awhile. Ever watch any old reruns of 60's era > "The Outer Limits"? When there's a computer involved, it's > clickety-clackety of relays working. > > Old TV can be fun. The other day, I saw an episode of "Get Smart" showing > a bank of CDC tape drives, followed by a "Mission Impossible" episode where > Mr. Phelps receives his instructions via 4-track tape cartridge (which > self-destructs as usual). > > --Chuck > >
Re: Megaprocessor - built from individual transistors
On 06/23/2015 04:11 PM, drlegendre . wrote: When it's done, I hope he mounts it all on a black rectangular table with 20 shiny metal legs on each the opposing longer sides. I seem to remember that the Packard-Bell PB250 used only about 400 transistors. (Magnetostrictive delay line memory). Lotsa diodes. So not totally out of the question, even today. --Chuck
Re: Megaprocessor - built from individual transistors
Which of course harks back to the Bletchley Park systems built on narrower but similar British Post Office 19" Relay Racks. The predecessors of the modern 19" racks. On 23/06/2015 20:34, Brent Hilpert wrote: On 2015-Jun-23, at 12:27 PM, Rod Smallwood wrote: On 23/06/2015 17:20, Phil Budne wrote: If I were going thru the trouble, I'd want build a TX-0 clone! Well if that don't take the biscuit for originality. The physical layout concept is actually quite similar to Harry Porter's relay machine: http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~harry/Relay/index.html Good luck to you sir. Its a living animated schematic.
Re: Megaprocessor - built from individual transistors
well how many transistors does our table top straight pdp-8 have?! In a message dated 6/23/2015 4:26:38 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, ccl...@sydex.com writes: On 06/23/2015 04:11 PM, drlegendre . wrote: > When it's done, I hope he mounts it all on a black rectangular table with > 20 shiny metal legs on each the opposing longer sides. I seem to remember that the Packard-Bell PB250 used only about 400 transistors. (Magnetostrictive delay line memory). Lotsa diodes. So not totally out of the question, even today. --Chuck
Re: Megaprocessor - built from individual transistors
On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 03:28:21PM -0700, Chuck Guzis wrote: > followed by a "Mission Impossible" episode where Mr. Phelps > receives his instructions via 4-track tape cartridge (which > self-destructs as usual). Even the ones that were not spy-approved did that :-) mcl
Re: Megaprocessor - built from individual transistors
On 06/23/2015 09:38 PM, Mark Linimon wrote: Even the ones that were not spy-approved did that :-) Ain't that the truth! --Chuck
Re: Megaprocessor - built from individual transistors
On Tue, 23 Jun 2015, Phil Budne wrote: If I were going thru the trouble, I'd want build a TX-0 clone! I think it would me more interesting to build a replica of a pdp-8 straight-eight using significantly-reduced flip chips with surface-mount parts. -- David Griffith d...@661.org A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
Re: Megaprocessor - built from individual transistors
On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 06:10:38AM +, d...@661.org wrote: > On Tue, 23 Jun 2015, Phil Budne wrote: > > >If I were going thru the trouble, I'd want build a TX-0 clone! > > I think it would me more interesting to build a replica of a pdp-8 > straight-eight using significantly-reduced flip chips with > surface-mount parts. > This exact thing has been on my TODO-list for a while. It will probably remain on the TODO-list for some time, but I really want to do it! I like to think that you could shrink the computer by, at least, a factor of four. Probably smaller. (make the flip chips double sided and double the function of each flip chip). /P
RE: Megaprocessor - built from individual transistors
> -Original Message- > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Pontus > Pihlgren > Sent: 24 June 2015 09:28 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Megaprocessor - built from individual transistors > > On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 06:10:38AM +, d...@661.org wrote: > > On Tue, 23 Jun 2015, Phil Budne wrote: > > > > >If I were going thru the trouble, I'd want build a TX-0 clone! > > > > I think it would me more interesting to build a replica of a pdp-8 > > straight-eight using significantly-reduced flip chips with > > surface-mount parts. > > > > This exact thing has been on my TODO-list for a while. It will probably remain > on the TODO-list for some time, but I really want to do it! > > I like to think that you could shrink the computer by, at least, a factor of four. > Probably smaller. > > (make the flip chips double sided and double the function of each flip chip). At least two people are building PDP/8E type machines from TTL... http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?47755-Build-your-own- PDP-8I-Part-2&highlight=pdp8%2Fe Dave G4UGM > > /P
Re: Megaprocessor - built from individual transistors
On 6/24/2015 12:10 AM, d...@661.org wrote: On Tue, 23 Jun 2015, Phil Budne wrote: If I were going thru the trouble, I'd want build a TX-0 clone! I think it would me more interesting to build a replica of a pdp-8 straight-eight using significantly-reduced flip chips with surface-mount parts. But only if you build a 1/4 size version ... switches still are a pain to source. Ben.
Re: Megaprocessor - built from individual transistors
On Wed, 24 Jun 2015, ben wrote: On 6/24/2015 12:10 AM, d...@661.org wrote: On Tue, 23 Jun 2015, Phil Budne wrote: If I were going thru the trouble, I'd want build a TX-0 clone! I think it would me more interesting to build a replica of a pdp-8 straight-eight using significantly-reduced flip chips with surface-mount parts. But only if you build a 1/4 size version ... switches still are a pain to source. Ben. With 3d printers, it shouldn't be too much of a problem to make your own paddles at whatever scale is required. The only catch I perceive is which switch to use. I'm thinking of a fairly common slide micro-switch that seems to have been a Radio Shack staple for at least 20 years. -- David Griffith d...@661.org A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
Re: Megaprocessor - built from individual transistors
On 6/24/2015 10:01 PM, d...@661.org wrote: On Wed, 24 Jun 2015, ben wrote: On 6/24/2015 12:10 AM, d...@661.org wrote: On Tue, 23 Jun 2015, Phil Budne wrote: If I were going thru the trouble, I'd want build a TX-0 clone! I think it would me more interesting to build a replica of a pdp-8 straight-eight using significantly-reduced flip chips with surface-mount parts. But only if you build a 1/4 size version ... switches still are a pain to source. Ben. With 3d printers, it shouldn't be too much of a problem to make your own paddles at whatever scale is required. The only catch I perceive is which switch to use. I'm thinking of a fairly common slide micro-switch that seems to have been a Radio Shack staple for at least 20 years. I thought it was phones ... for the last 20 years. Radio Shack is no more...
Re: Megaprocessor - built from individual transistors
On June 24, 2015 1:27:56 AM PDT, Pontus Pihlgren wrote: > On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 06:10:38AM +, d...@661.org wrote: > > On Tue, 23 Jun 2015, Phil Budne wrote: > > > > >If I were going thru the trouble, I'd want build a TX-0 clone! > > > > I think it would me more interesting to build a replica of a pdp-8 > > straight-eight using significantly-reduced flip chips with > > surface-mount parts. > > > > This exact thing has been on my TODO-list for a while. It will > probably > remain on the TODO-list for some time, but I really want to do it! > > I like to think that you could shrink the computer by, at least, a > factor of four. Probably smaller. > > (make the flip chips double sided and double the function of each flip > > chip). > > /P I don't think thatt making the flip-chips double-sided will be desirable. I want to shrink the machine and minimize any need to reengineer the backplane. By the way, can the backplane of a straight-eight be realized as a PCB? Replicating that component without that will suck. -- David Griffith d...@661.org
Re: Megaprocessor - built from individual transistors
> On Jun 25, 2015, at 7:16 AM, David Griffith wrote: > > ... > I don't think thatt making the flip-chips double-sided will be desirable. I > want to shrink the machine and minimize any need to reengineer the backplane. > By the way, can the backplane of a straight-eight be realized as a PCB? Of course. The only reason a PCB backplane would be an issue is if there are signal integrity concerns, but at DEC speeds that’s not going to be a problem. Especially if what you’re aiming to replace is wire wrap which is in general worse at signal integrity than PCB. Now if you were looking to replace the chassis wiring of a 6600 with a PCB, that would be a different matter, then you’d want to be a bit more cautious. Even then it’s clearly doable, if you use transmission line design on the PCB signals. paul
Re: Megaprocessor - built from individual transistors
On Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 04:16:03AM -0700, David Griffith wrote: > > I don't think thatt making the flip-chips double-sided will be > desirable. I want to shrink the machine and minimize any need > to reengineer the backplane. By the way, can the backplane of > a straight-eight be realized as a PCB? Replicating that > component without that will suck. I've not chosen that restriction and would not mind rerouting the backplane if it means 1. that I can shrink the design and 2. if it means I can fit it on a multilayer PCB of suitable size. Now, I've looked at the backplane of a PDP-12 and it looks to be 4 or 5 levels deep at the most and fairly "roomy". So, with my limited experience it doesn't seem impossible to recreate in a 4 layer PCB. I'm not sure what would be a suitable edge connector though, that would probably dictate the size of the flip chips more than anything. Please correct me if I'm talking complete bulls**t. This is all new to me. /P
Re: Megaprocessor - built from individual transistors
From: David Griffith: Thursday, June 25, 2015 4:16 AM On June 24, 2015 1:27:56 AM PDT, Pontus Pihlgren wrote: I like to think that you could shrink the computer by, at least, a factor of four. Probably smaller. I don't think thatt making the flip-chips double-sided will be desirable. I want to shrink the machine and minimize any need to reengineer the backplane. By the way, can the backplane of a straight-eight be realized as a PCB? Replicating that component without that will suck. I've laid out a few of DEC's backplanes as PCBs before, mostly for the later designs that use both sides of the edge connectors. They tend to require about 4 signal layers. It can be helpful to bus power separately (using wire much as was originally done), and to route on the diagonal, as the funky sockets have larger chaseways in the diagonal directions. Also, the device is relatively high current. Some of my earlier attempts used trace widths that, in retrospect, weren't wide enough (especially power traces), trying to keep the number of layers down. I can't particularly recommend the original backplane form factor. They are all based on a 1/8 inch grid instead of the industry standard 0.1 inch, and not at all easy to find or inexpensive these days. From: Pontus Pihlgren: Thursday, June 25, 2015 6:39 AM Now, I've looked at the backplane of a PDP-12 and it looks to be 4 or 5 levels deep at the most and fairly "roomy". So, with my limited experience it doesn't seem impossible to recreate in a 4 layer PCB. Agreed. 6 with power and ground planes might work well, too. I'm not sure what would be a suitable edge connector though, that would probably dictate the size of the flip chips more than anything. To my mind, the obvious choice for a new edge connector would be 0.1" headers and sockets. They are easy to find and produced by the millions, which means they are also relatively affordable. Please correct me if I'm talking complete bulls**t. This is all new to me. The only other concern I've had during my thought experiments along this line related again to the current/power involved. The device is likely to become difficult to cool if you achieve a 4X volume reduction. Oh, and I guess the nightmare of soldering many thousands of surface mount discretes and transistors to manufacture such a thing. Vince
Re: Megaprocessor - built from individual transistors
On Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 10:22 AM, Vincent Slyngstad < v.slyngs...@frontier.com> wrote: > Please correct me if I'm talking complete bulls**t. This is all >> new to me. >> > > The only other concern I've had during my thought experiments > along this line related again to the current/power involved. The > device is likely to become difficult to cool if you achieve a 4X > volume reduction. > > Oh, and I guess the nightmare of soldering many thousands of > surface mount discretes and transistors to manufacture such a > thing. > The easy way to do this is to make one board with a small CPLD connected to all the pins and program it to match the logic of the card you are emulating. That way you can have a couple of hundred boards made up for you at a reasonable cost that are all the same but ends up with different functionality. Just stick a label on the handle to tell what the card was programmed as. I don't think you would have heat issues unless you actually tried to use the original circuits. The Straight 8 logic uses pulses for some things instead of levels making it not really compatible with more modern logic. At least not a direct replacement. The later models would be better targets. An I for example might be the best choice. You can't shrink the size of the Front Panel because the switch spacing is already just a little narrow for people with large fingers. It would be better to make it a little oversize in fact. I don't have large hands and it would still be better for me if the spacing was slightly wider. -- Doug Ingraham PDP-8 SN 1175
Re: Megaprocessor - built from individual transistors
From: Doug Ingraham: Thursday, June 25, 2015 4:10 PM On Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 10:22 AM, Vincent Slyngstad wrote: The only other concern I've had during my thought experiments along this line related again to the current/power involved. The device is likely to become difficult to cool if you achieve a 4X volume reduction. The easy way to do this is to make one board with a small CPLD connected to all the pins and program it to match the logic of the card you are emulating. That way you can have a couple of hundred boards made up for you at a reasonable cost that are all the same but ends up with different functionality. Just stick a label on the handle to tell what the card was programmed as. I've been thinking lately that whole Omnibus cards could be generalized that way. I don't think you would have heat issues unless you actually tried to use the original circuits. I had assumed, since the subject contains "built from individual transistors", that something akin to the original straight-8 circuits was what was being discussed. Straight 8 signals typically run 8 mA when low and 10 mA when high, and that's from the -15V supply, per signal. I estimate that's a few hundred watts for the whole thing. Reducing the supply voltage to -5V would presumably cut the power (and hence the heat) to a third, by eliminating most of the waste heat from all the pull-downs. The Straight 8 logic uses pulses for some things instead of levels making it not really compatible with more modern logic. At least not a direct replacement. The later models would be better targets. An I for example might be the best choice. I like the 8/I too, though it's not "built from individual transistors". You can't shrink the size of the Front Panel because the switch spacing is already just a little narrow for people with large fingers. It would be better to make it a little oversize in fact. I don't have large hands and it would still be better for me if the spacing was slightly wider. I completely agree, at least if you're actually going to use the darn thing a few hours at a time. Some models of the PDP-11 did use much smaller (still available) switches, but fitted them with honking paddles to make them more comfortable to use. Vince
