Re: More tapes - This time all Tektronix 405x series

[Monty McGraw via cctalk]

Randy,

I had the same issue.  I have an older NI GPIB to serial adapter, and since
the Tektronix protocol was so customized - I couldn't get it to recover the
data either.

Right now I'm experimenting with a different PC serial program - which is
designed to transfer data from embedded systems like Arduino.

I would like to capture the data including the control characters without
having to convert them.

This effort is helping me get a deeper understanding of what is going on,
so I can get my GPIB flash drive designed properly.

Monty

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 9:54 PM, Randy Dawson via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Hi Pete,
>
>
> Send them to  Monty - my 4051 is crippled with no serial port.  I
> currently have no way to get data in and out of this, except via Micheal's
> RAMSTORE modules.
>
>
> Monty, I also looked at emulating the tape drive, or the floppy disk over
> GPIB, that would be great, have the PC with a NI USB dongle.
>
> I could not figure out how to make the National Instruments dongle act
> like a slave, its normally the master.
>
>
> Randy
>
>
> 
> From: cctalk  on behalf of Pete Lancashire
> via cctalk 
> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 11:06 AM
> To: mmcgra...@gmail.com; General
> Subject: Re: More tapes - This time all Tektronix 405x series
>
> a few months ago i had about 20 4051/4052 tapes. if i still do i can send
> them to you
>
> On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 5:53 AM Monty McGraw via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > I was successfull at capturing all the files from a 4051 Graphics T1 tape
> > last weekend.
> >
> > Here is the link to a couple of photos of the process:
> >
> > Capturing Tektronix 4051 Graphics T1 tape files to laptop
> > <https://drive.google.com/open?id=18hROXB28PD9Z_GYDNNSXGPK4Pv7GQD8w>
> >
> > First I replaced the disintegrated drive belt with one from a NOS 3M
> DC6250
> > cartridge.
> >
> > I used my 4051 to PC serial transfer program on my recently repaired and
> > upgraded 4054A.
> >
> > I set the comm speed of the 4054 serial interface to the maximum 9600
> baud,
> > but as it is 7-bit, my program changes all 32 Tektronix control
> characters
> > to "~X~" where X is the ASCII character corresponding to that control
> > character.
> >
> > This way I don't lose any of the Tektronix 405x text formatting in the
> > transfer.
> >
> > I was using ExtraPutty on the laptop to capture the program text strings,
> > then copied the statements into Notepad++ and saved each file.
> >
> > I am also working on a Tektronix 4051/52/54 compatible GPIB MicroSD flash
> > drive that will emulate the Tektronix 4924 tape drive - for all of us
> with
> > these computers to use - since both the tapes and drives are very
> > problematic after all these years.
> >
> > This flash drive contains an Arduino with my code - based on the GPIB
> > flowcharts and info in a 4051 and 4052 GPIB manual.
> >
> > You will be able to use the existing 405x program statements with @Y for
> > the drive GPIB address - since I don't know how to write a ROMPACK for
> any
> > of the series :)
> >
> > I plan to organize the different captured tapes in directories on the
> flash
> > - and that may mean using a non-4924 GPIB secondary address for that
> > command.  It also likely means I need to change any tape commands in each
> > program to use the flash drive GPIB address.
> >
> > That's why I wanted to capture one of the Tektronix tapes with a menu -
> is
> > to ensure I could get those files to work on my flash drive design.
> >
> > Monty McGraw
> >
> >
>

Re: More tapes - This time all Tektronix 405x series -SERIAL PORT

[Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk]

I used an GPIB to serial converter to get serial data out of my 4052. 
This allowed me to get 8 bit serial data, not just the seven the 
Tektronix serial port allowed for.
I used it to drive a paper tape punch/reader, just for fun. There are 
some on ebay. Also, an USB to GPIB converter should work.


Might help with transferring tapes.

Bob

On 6/21/2018 7:54 PM, Randy Dawson via cctalk wrote:

Hi Pete,


Send them to  Monty - my 4051 is crippled with no serial port.  I currently 
have no way to get data in and out of this, except via Micheal's RAMSTORE 
modules.


Monty, I also looked at emulating the tape drive, or the floppy disk over GPIB, 
that would be great, have the PC with a NI USB dongle.

I could not figure out how to make the National Instruments dongle act like a 
slave, its normally the master.


Randy



From: cctalk  on behalf of Pete Lancashire via cctalk 

Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 11:06 AM
To: mmcgra...@gmail.com; General
Subject: Re: More tapes - This time all Tektronix 405x series

a few months ago i had about 20 4051/4052 tapes. if i still do i can send
them to you

On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 5:53 AM Monty McGraw via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:


I was successfull at capturing all the files from a 4051 Graphics T1 tape
last weekend.

Here is the link to a couple of photos of the process:

Capturing Tektronix 4051 Graphics T1 tape files to laptop
<https://drive.google.com/open?id=18hROXB28PD9Z_GYDNNSXGPK4Pv7GQD8w>

First I replaced the disintegrated drive belt with one from a NOS 3M DC6250
cartridge.

I used my 4051 to PC serial transfer program on my recently repaired and
upgraded 4054A.

I set the comm speed of the 4054 serial interface to the maximum 9600 baud,
but as it is 7-bit, my program changes all 32 Tektronix control characters
to "~X~" where X is the ASCII character corresponding to that control
character.

This way I don't lose any of the Tektronix 405x text formatting in the
transfer.

I was using ExtraPutty on the laptop to capture the program text strings,
then copied the statements into Notepad++ and saved each file.

I am also working on a Tektronix 4051/52/54 compatible GPIB MicroSD flash
drive that will emulate the Tektronix 4924 tape drive - for all of us with
these computers to use - since both the tapes and drives are very
problematic after all these years.

This flash drive contains an Arduino with my code - based on the GPIB
flowcharts and info in a 4051 and 4052 GPIB manual.

You will be able to use the existing 405x program statements with @Y for
the drive GPIB address - since I don't know how to write a ROMPACK for any
of the series :)

I plan to organize the different captured tapes in directories on the flash
- and that may mean using a non-4924 GPIB secondary address for that
command.  It also likely means I need to change any tape commands in each
program to use the flash drive GPIB address.

That's why I wanted to capture one of the Tektronix tapes with a menu - is
to ensure I could get those files to work on my flash drive design.

Monty McGraw




--
Vintage computers and electronics
www.dvq.com
www.tekmuseum.com
www.decmuseum.org

Re: More tapes - This time all Tektronix 405x series

[Randy Dawson via cctalk]

Hi Pete,


Send them to  Monty - my 4051 is crippled with no serial port.  I currently 
have no way to get data in and out of this, except via Micheal's RAMSTORE 
modules.


Monty, I also looked at emulating the tape drive, or the floppy disk over GPIB, 
that would be great, have the PC with a NI USB dongle.

I could not figure out how to make the National Instruments dongle act like a 
slave, its normally the master.


Randy



From: cctalk  on behalf of Pete Lancashire via 
cctalk 
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 11:06 AM
To: mmcgra...@gmail.com; General
Subject: Re: More tapes - This time all Tektronix 405x series

a few months ago i had about 20 4051/4052 tapes. if i still do i can send
them to you

On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 5:53 AM Monty McGraw via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> I was successfull at capturing all the files from a 4051 Graphics T1 tape
> last weekend.
>
> Here is the link to a couple of photos of the process:
>
> Capturing Tektronix 4051 Graphics T1 tape files to laptop
> <https://drive.google.com/open?id=18hROXB28PD9Z_GYDNNSXGPK4Pv7GQD8w>
>
> First I replaced the disintegrated drive belt with one from a NOS 3M DC6250
> cartridge.
>
> I used my 4051 to PC serial transfer program on my recently repaired and
> upgraded 4054A.
>
> I set the comm speed of the 4054 serial interface to the maximum 9600 baud,
> but as it is 7-bit, my program changes all 32 Tektronix control characters
> to "~X~" where X is the ASCII character corresponding to that control
> character.
>
> This way I don't lose any of the Tektronix 405x text formatting in the
> transfer.
>
> I was using ExtraPutty on the laptop to capture the program text strings,
> then copied the statements into Notepad++ and saved each file.
>
> I am also working on a Tektronix 4051/52/54 compatible GPIB MicroSD flash
> drive that will emulate the Tektronix 4924 tape drive - for all of us with
> these computers to use - since both the tapes and drives are very
> problematic after all these years.
>
> This flash drive contains an Arduino with my code - based on the GPIB
> flowcharts and info in a 4051 and 4052 GPIB manual.
>
> You will be able to use the existing 405x program statements with @Y for
> the drive GPIB address - since I don't know how to write a ROMPACK for any
> of the series :)
>
> I plan to organize the different captured tapes in directories on the flash
> - and that may mean using a non-4924 GPIB secondary address for that
> command.  It also likely means I need to change any tape commands in each
> program to use the flash drive GPIB address.
>
> That's why I wanted to capture one of the Tektronix tapes with a menu - is
> to ensure I could get those files to work on my flash drive design.
>
> Monty McGraw
>
>

Re: More tapes - This time all Tektronix 405x series

[Pete Lancashire via cctalk]

a few months ago i had about 20 4051/4052 tapes. if i still do i can send
them to you

On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 5:53 AM Monty McGraw via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> I was successfull at capturing all the files from a 4051 Graphics T1 tape
> last weekend.
>
> Here is the link to a couple of photos of the process:
>
> Capturing Tektronix 4051 Graphics T1 tape files to laptop
> 
>
> First I replaced the disintegrated drive belt with one from a NOS 3M DC6250
> cartridge.
>
> I used my 4051 to PC serial transfer program on my recently repaired and
> upgraded 4054A.
>
> I set the comm speed of the 4054 serial interface to the maximum 9600 baud,
> but as it is 7-bit, my program changes all 32 Tektronix control characters
> to "~X~" where X is the ASCII character corresponding to that control
> character.
>
> This way I don't lose any of the Tektronix 405x text formatting in the
> transfer.
>
> I was using ExtraPutty on the laptop to capture the program text strings,
> then copied the statements into Notepad++ and saved each file.
>
> I am also working on a Tektronix 4051/52/54 compatible GPIB MicroSD flash
> drive that will emulate the Tektronix 4924 tape drive - for all of us with
> these computers to use - since both the tapes and drives are very
> problematic after all these years.
>
> This flash drive contains an Arduino with my code - based on the GPIB
> flowcharts and info in a 4051 and 4052 GPIB manual.
>
> You will be able to use the existing 405x program statements with @Y for
> the drive GPIB address - since I don't know how to write a ROMPACK for any
> of the series :)
>
> I plan to organize the different captured tapes in directories on the flash
> - and that may mean using a non-4924 GPIB secondary address for that
> command.  It also likely means I need to change any tape commands in each
> program to use the flash drive GPIB address.
>
> That's why I wanted to capture one of the Tektronix tapes with a menu - is
> to ensure I could get those files to work on my flash drive design.
>
> Monty McGraw
>
>

Re: More tapes - This time all Tektronix 405x series

[Randy Dawson via cctalk]

Wow, good job Marty.


Now there are three of us.  Brad Sebrink has a 4051, and also written an 
emulator.

The Tek guys in Beaverton have another, VintageTek.  I will contact one of the 
guys there, he may have a RAMPACK and MAXIPACK for you, his software speeds up 
the graphics incredibly, and give you a non-volatile EEPROM program store.  He 
has put all of the collected programs we have so far on there, mostly games.


I have to cut into my 4051, it quit a few weeks back, I think it is just a 
supply problem.  I can run a simple basic loop, but what it draws on the screen 
is garbled, on of the analog supplies is messed up screwing up the vector 
drawing, but the computer itself is running.


I did the elastiband transfer when I first got the machine, from NOS tapes to 
the one that was in the machine.  Tricky, but I got it working, and WEATHERWAR 
off of it and a few others, biorhythm, etc.


Randy



From: cctalk  on behalf of Monty McGraw via 
cctalk 
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 5:39 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: RE: More tapes - This time all Tektronix 405x series

I was successfull at capturing all the files from a Tektronix 4051 Graphics
T1 tape last weekend.

Here is the link to a couple of photos of the process:

Capturing Tektronix 4051 Graphics T1 tape files to laptop
<https://drive.google.com/open?id=18hROXB28PD9Z_GYDNNSXGPK4Pv7GQD8w>

First I replaced the disintegrated drive belt with one from a NOS 3M DC6250
cartridge.

I used my 4051 to PC serial transfer program on my recently repaired and
upgraded 4054A.

I set the comm speed of the 4054 serial interface to the maximum 9600 baud,
but as it is 7-bit, my program changes all 32 Tektronix control characters
to "~X~" where X is the ASCII character corresponding to that control
character.

This way I don't lose any of the Tektronix 405x text formatting in the
transfer.

I was using ExtraPutty on the laptop to capture the program text strings,
then copied the statements into Notepad++ and saved each file.

I am also working on a Tektronix 4051/52/54 compatible GPIB MicroSD flash
drive that will emulate the Tektronix 4924 tape drive - for all of us with
these computers to use - since both the tapes and drives are very
problematic after all these years.

This flash drive contains an Arduino with my code - based on the GPIB
flowcharts and info in a 4051 and 4052 GPIB manual.

You will be able to use the existing 405x program statements with @Y for
the drive GPIB address - since I don't know how to write a ROMPACK for any
of the series :)

I plan to organize the different captured tapes in directories on the flash
- and that may mean using a non-4924 GPIB secondary address for that
command.  It also likely means I need to change any tape commands in each
program to use the flash drive GPIB address.

That's why I wanted to capture one of the Tektronix tapes with a menu - is
to ensure I could get those files to work on my flash drive design.

Monty McGraw

RE: More tapes - This time all Tektronix 405x series

[Monty McGraw via cctalk]

I was successfull at capturing all the files from a Tektronix 4051 Graphics
T1 tape last weekend.

Here is the link to a couple of photos of the process:

Capturing Tektronix 4051 Graphics T1 tape files to laptop


First I replaced the disintegrated drive belt with one from a NOS 3M DC6250
cartridge.

I used my 4051 to PC serial transfer program on my recently repaired and
upgraded 4054A.

I set the comm speed of the 4054 serial interface to the maximum 9600 baud,
but as it is 7-bit, my program changes all 32 Tektronix control characters
to "~X~" where X is the ASCII character corresponding to that control
character.

This way I don't lose any of the Tektronix 405x text formatting in the
transfer.

I was using ExtraPutty on the laptop to capture the program text strings,
then copied the statements into Notepad++ and saved each file.

I am also working on a Tektronix 4051/52/54 compatible GPIB MicroSD flash
drive that will emulate the Tektronix 4924 tape drive - for all of us with
these computers to use - since both the tapes and drives are very
problematic after all these years.

This flash drive contains an Arduino with my code - based on the GPIB
flowcharts and info in a 4051 and 4052 GPIB manual.

You will be able to use the existing 405x program statements with @Y for
the drive GPIB address - since I don't know how to write a ROMPACK for any
of the series :)

I plan to organize the different captured tapes in directories on the flash
- and that may mean using a non-4924 GPIB secondary address for that
command.  It also likely means I need to change any tape commands in each
program to use the flash drive GPIB address.

That's why I wanted to capture one of the Tektronix tapes with a menu - is
to ensure I could get those files to work on my flash drive design.

Monty McGraw

RE: More tapes - This time all Tektronix 405x series

[Monty McGraw via cctalk]

I was successfull at capturing all the files from a 4051 Graphics T1 tape
last weekend.

Here is the link to a couple of photos of the process:

Capturing Tektronix 4051 Graphics T1 tape files to laptop


First I replaced the disintegrated drive belt with one from a NOS 3M DC6250
cartridge.

I used my 4051 to PC serial transfer program on my recently repaired and
upgraded 4054A.

I set the comm speed of the 4054 serial interface to the maximum 9600 baud,
but as it is 7-bit, my program changes all 32 Tektronix control characters
to "~X~" where X is the ASCII character corresponding to that control
character.

This way I don't lose any of the Tektronix 405x text formatting in the
transfer.

I was using ExtraPutty on the laptop to capture the program text strings,
then copied the statements into Notepad++ and saved each file.

I am also working on a Tektronix 4051/52/54 compatible GPIB MicroSD flash
drive that will emulate the Tektronix 4924 tape drive - for all of us with
these computers to use - since both the tapes and drives are very
problematic after all these years.

This flash drive contains an Arduino with my code - based on the GPIB
flowcharts and info in a 4051 and 4052 GPIB manual.

You will be able to use the existing 405x program statements with @Y for
the drive GPIB address - since I don't know how to write a ROMPACK for any
of the series :)

I plan to organize the different captured tapes in directories on the flash
- and that may mean using a non-4924 GPIB secondary address for that
command.  It also likely means I need to change any tape commands in each
program to use the flash drive GPIB address.

That's why I wanted to capture one of the Tektronix tapes with a menu - is
to ensure I could get those files to work on my flash drive design.

Monty McGraw

Re: More tapes - This time all Tektronix 405x series

[AJ Palmgren via cctalk]

Fascinating...thanks for sharing this!  So the tape drive was integrated
into the chassis hardware.  Now that's proprietary.

I don't even see evidence of a CRC or checksum in the documentation.  Do
you think that each record has one, and they just didn't document it?

Anyway, very interesting, nice work saving these!

-AJ

Re: More tapes - This time all Tektronix 405x series

[Pete Lancashire via cctalk]

http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/tektronix/405x/070-2065-00_4051_Service_Vol1_May77.pdf

pages 6-37 to 6-41

The format and drive was all done in house. It was originally done on a
horizontal external GPIB drive, the 4923. Tek was on of the first
users of the cartridge. But for non technical reasons was the format used
on the 4051 even though by then better designs had been
adopted.

Sadly not one of the good things that came out of Tek. But knowing the
history all was not a technical decsision like in many large
companies, and as usual a long story.







On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 9:10 PM, AJ Palmgren  wrote:

> Ah, yes.  I'm fascinated by the stranger formats.
>
> Now I'm even more curious, now that you say it isn't the more common
> QIC-11 or QIC-24 formats.
>
> Do you know what specific hardware (tape drive models, formatter boards,
> etc) that was used to write or read these tapes with this format?
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 5:53 AM, Pete Lancashire 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm going to see if the Tektronix museum is interested. And if so I'm
>> sure they can make the software available for download. As to the format,
>> Tek decided to do it their own way. It is a funky 2 track that has issues
>> of its own. But your method of recovering the raw track data should work as
>> a starting point.
>>
>> -pete
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 11:16 PM, AJ Palmgren via cctalk <
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Pete,
>>>
>>> These tapes look to be in beautiful condition!  Do you have any plans for
>>> reading or archiving them?
>>>
>>> Do you have any idea what format the data might have been written in?
>>>
>>> If interested, my site for reading/restoring QIC cartridges of this very
>>> vintage is at
>>>
>>> http://QICreader.com
>>>
>>> Let me know if I can be of any assistance.
>>>
>>> -AJ
>>>
>>> 2017-04-02 21:08 GMT-07:00 Pete Lancashire via cctalk <
>>> cctalk@classiccmp.org
>>> >:
>>>
>>> > https://goo.gl/photos/m91e3UPSvN6tHUaS7
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> AJ Palmgren
>>> http://fb.me/SelmaTrainWreck
>>> https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100010931314283
>>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/aj-palmgren-4a085516/
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Thanks,
> AJ Palmgren
> http://fb.me/SelmaTrainWreck
> https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100010931314283
> https://www.linkedin.com/in/aj-palmgren-4a085516/
>
>

Re: More tapes - This time all Tektronix 405x series

[AJ Palmgren via cctalk]

Ah, yes.  I'm fascinated by the stranger formats.

Now I'm even more curious, now that you say it isn't the more common QIC-11
or QIC-24 formats.

Do you know what specific hardware (tape drive models, formatter boards,
etc) that was used to write or read these tapes with this format?




On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 5:53 AM, Pete Lancashire 
wrote:

> I'm going to see if the Tektronix museum is interested. And if so I'm sure
> they can make the software available for download. As to the format, Tek
> decided to do it their own way. It is a funky 2 track that has issues of
> its own. But your method of recovering the raw track data should work as a
> starting point.
>
> -pete
>
> On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 11:16 PM, AJ Palmgren via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
>> Pete,
>>
>> These tapes look to be in beautiful condition!  Do you have any plans for
>> reading or archiving them?
>>
>> Do you have any idea what format the data might have been written in?
>>
>> If interested, my site for reading/restoring QIC cartridges of this very
>> vintage is at
>>
>> http://QICreader.com
>>
>> Let me know if I can be of any assistance.
>>
>> -AJ
>>
>> 2017-04-02 21:08 GMT-07:00 Pete Lancashire via cctalk <
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org
>> >:
>>
>> > https://goo.gl/photos/m91e3UPSvN6tHUaS7
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Thanks,
>> AJ Palmgren
>> http://fb.me/SelmaTrainWreck
>> https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100010931314283
>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/aj-palmgren-4a085516/
>>
>>
>


-- 

Thanks,
AJ Palmgren
http://fb.me/SelmaTrainWreck
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100010931314283
https://www.linkedin.com/in/aj-palmgren-4a085516/

Re: More tapes - This time all Tektronix 405x series

[Pete Lancashire via cctalk]

I'm going to see if the Tektronix museum is interested. And if so I'm sure
they can make the software available for download. As to the format, Tek
decided to do it their own way. It is a funky 2 track that has issues of
its own. But your method of recovering the raw track data should work as a
starting point.

-pete

On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 11:16 PM, AJ Palmgren via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Pete,
>
> These tapes look to be in beautiful condition!  Do you have any plans for
> reading or archiving them?
>
> Do you have any idea what format the data might have been written in?
>
> If interested, my site for reading/restoring QIC cartridges of this very
> vintage is at
>
> http://QICreader.com
>
> Let me know if I can be of any assistance.
>
> -AJ
>
> 2017-04-02 21:08 GMT-07:00 Pete Lancashire via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org
> >:
>
> > https://goo.gl/photos/m91e3UPSvN6tHUaS7
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> Thanks,
> AJ Palmgren
> http://fb.me/SelmaTrainWreck
> https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100010931314283
> https://www.linkedin.com/in/aj-palmgren-4a085516/
>
>

Re: More tapes - This time all Tektronix 405x series

[AJ Palmgren via cctalk]

Pete,

These tapes look to be in beautiful condition!  Do you have any plans for
reading or archiving them?

Do you have any idea what format the data might have been written in?

If interested, my site for reading/restoring QIC cartridges of this very
vintage is at

http://QICreader.com

Let me know if I can be of any assistance.

-AJ

2017-04-02 21:08 GMT-07:00 Pete Lancashire via cctalk :

> https://goo.gl/photos/m91e3UPSvN6tHUaS7
>



-- 

Thanks,
AJ Palmgren
http://fb.me/SelmaTrainWreck
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100010931314283
https://www.linkedin.com/in/aj-palmgren-4a085516/

More tapes - This time all Tektronix 405x series

[Pete Lancashire via cctalk]

https://goo.gl/photos/m91e3UPSvN6tHUaS7