Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[allison via cctalk]

On 02/22/2018 07:45 AM, Ulrich Tagge via cctech wrote:
> /Here is my list. 6x RD54 (Maxtor XT2190) >2x OK, 2x Media Error, 1x
> Actuator Issue, 1x Head issue 3x RD53 (Micropolis 1325) >2x Actuator
> issue, 1x actuator issue followed by spinning issue (speed sensor?)
1325s with head stuck will normally spin down.  If the head does not
position there is no servo
so the motor control shuts the show down.  The fix is pop the cover and
remove the offending goo that
was the bead bumper stop.

Allison

> 4x Seagate ST251 >4x OK 3x Seagete ST225 >3x OK 3x IBM Type 068 >3x
> Dead On the 3.5" side I have also many dead drives (<1GB capacity).
> Mostly sticky actuators and dead tantalum caps, but by now nothing I
> was not able to repair. Many Greetings Ulrich /
>>>
>>> A tangential question out of curiosity: who here has 5.25" MFM
>>> drives they're extremely surprised are still working, and which
>>> model(s)?
>>> ...
>>>
>>> - John
>
>

Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[Geoffrey Reed via cctalk]

 A tangential question out of curiosity: who here has 5.25" MFM
 drives they're extremely surprised are still working, and which
 model(s)?
 ...

 - John

I¹m always surprised when I get my hands on an old st238 and it still
works, the amplifiers were run out of spec on most of them with no heat
sinking so they tend to burn up and damage the PCB
\

Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[Ulrich Tagge via cctalk]

/Here is my list. 6x RD54 (Maxtor XT2190) >2x OK, 2x Media Error, 1x 
Actuator Issue, 1x Head issue 3x RD53 (Micropolis 1325) >2x Actuator 
issue, 1x actuator issue followed by spinning issue (speed sensor?) 4x 
Seagate ST251 >4x OK 3x Seagete ST225 >3x OK 3x IBM Type 068 >3x Dead On 
the 3.5" side I have also many dead drives (<1GB capacity). Mostly 
sticky actuators and dead tantalum caps, but by now nothing I was not 
able to repair. Many Greetings Ulrich /


A tangential question out of curiosity: 
who here has 5.25" MFM drives they're 
extremely surprised are still working, 
and which model(s)?

...

- John

Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[Mike Loewen via cctalk]

On Fri, 9 Feb 2018, js--- via cctalk wrote:


A tangential question out of curiosity: who here has 5.25" MFM drives they're 
extremely surprised are still working, and which model(s)?


I'll start.  I've quite a few MFM drives, but the ones that really surprise 
me are (2) Seagate ST-506, and (2) IMI CM-5412.   My surprise is b/c these 
are amongst the earliest of models.


   At the risk of jinxing my drives, I have a Tandy 6000HD with two 
operational Tandon TM503 drives.  The only thing done was to reformat.



Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology  http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 02/09/2018 12:14 PM, allison via cctalk wrote:
> 
> The grand daddy of them all is the RL02 salvaged in 1983 and still 
> running along with two packs from then.  Its life was 9 years of
> Monday through Friday power on and now intermittent about 5 times a
> month since 1994.  Still booting a PDP-11.


I've still got an SA4000 drive here.  I haven't fired it up in donkey's
years, but it would be interesting to see if it still worked.

--Chuck

Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Fri, 9 Feb 2018, js--- via cctalk wrote:
A tangential question out of curiosity: who here has 5.25" MFM drives 
they're extremely surprised are still working, and which model(s)?
I'll start.  I've quite a few MFM drives, but the ones that really surprise 
me are (2) Seagate ST-506, and (2) IMI CM-5412.   My surprise is b/c these 
are amongst the earliest of models.


One factor may be that the earliest models were new attempts, and tended 
to be very carefully engineered, and often conservatively, due to lack of 
prior experience.  On the later drives, they had "learned" and "realized" 
some of the corners that they could cut.  "On analysis of failed drives 
from various problems, it is clear that none of the failed drives were 
even halfway through the life of the lubricants.  Therefore, cheaper 
lubricants and smaller quantities with half the expected life would still 
be adequate to outlast, on average, the other components."?


I've performed *some* work on all these drives, such as cleaning and caps 
reforming, but haven't yet discovered a way to lube motors & bearings.   I 
think lube issues will spell their ultimate demise.


One of the first corners to cut, once analysis of failed units from other 
causes shows that it is outlasting the rest of the unit.


In addition, of course, some lubricants can deteriorate, whereas many 
other components may have no significant impact from time.  Lubricants can 
fail from contaminants that would not affect most other components.

Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[allison via cctalk]

On 02/09/2018 01:05 PM, js--- via cctalk wrote:
>
>
> On 2/9/2018 12:25 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
>> On 02/09/2018 05:20 AM, allison via cctalk wrote:
>>
>>> At the other extreme I have over a dozen Quantum D540s (RD52 31mb full
>>> height)
>>> that are really old and getting older and still work without issues.
>>> Some of those
>>> have sat on the shelf for a decade and work fine when I need one.
>> I've still got a Q540 mounted on its side in a MAD Intelligent Systems
>> case--I fired it up about a week ago and it's still working just fine.
>>
>> --Chuck
>
>
> A tangential question out of curiosity: who here has 5.25" MFM drives
> they're extremely surprised are still working, and which model(s)?

Working Drive some of which I bought new...

These are all MFM:
 2 st506  1 new in 1981, last tested 1 year ago and still has the base
install of CP/M 2.2.
    It was my first hard disk in my Northstar Horizon S100 crate and
still visits there.
    Its hard to imagine when 5MB seemed like a huge unfillable space.
2 St412  both gotten used (one was RD51) both work but one has stiction
so startup
   the first time in a while requires manual twist of the drive(inertia).
 3 ST225 one was former RD31 all work though they have been formatted
for RQDX2,
    RQDX3 and WD1003 at different times.
  1 ST250, out of a PC rescue back in the early 90s, still hasn't died.
14 Q540s some as old as 1985 all work no failures yet.  The first one I
have was "tossed"
      literally as bad by field circus (dec internal in 1986) only to
find the RQDX2 had
  croaked.  By tossed I mean dropped from 3Ft into a steel trash
can.  Reformatted
  (high level using XXDP) for RQDX2 its served me since.  Yes, I
pick trash.
 3  RD53 aka 1325s ll had spindown from head sticking to bumper, opened
and fixed
    with the oldest picked up used in 1991.
 1 CDC (wren) 3.5" MFM picked up used in '93 and paired with a Xybec
controller in my
    Micromint SBC180.

SCSI group:
In the SCSI class I have a large collection of PC and VAX drives from
RZ22 though RZ56s
and those that worked when I got them still do over 20 years later. 
This is a mix of 3.5
and 5inch full height.

Of those from PCs the Baracuda 1gb drives  have proven bullet proof.  I
have 4 that
came from system upgrades (2001) that have at least 2 years 24/7 when I
got them.
Note the replacement Maxtor drives (9gb) tended to fail after about 13
months
(humm pattern, yes?).

One noteable SCSI drive is a 3.5" Fugitsu SCSI 45MB given to me for a
AMPROLB+
still running more than 20 years and used just yesterday to assemble
some 8085 code.

IDE:
Large selection of pulls all tested good.  Noteables were the 420mb WD,
4.3GB WD and
St3660A.  Oddballs like a 5.25 thin bigfoot (slowest and reputed to be
the worst for failure)
in linux 486box thats still running Slackware 1.2.

In all cases the drive mentioned are not less than 15 years old most
greater than
25 and a few pushing more than 35 years.

The grand daddy of them all is the RL02 salvaged in 1983 and still
running along
with two packs from then.  Its life was 9 years of Monday through Friday
power on
and now intermittent about 5 times a month since 1994.  Still booting a
PDP-11.


Allison

Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 2/9/18 10:05 AM, js--- via cctalk wrote:

> A tangential question out of curiosity: who here has 5.25" MFM drives they're 
> extremely surprised are still working, and
> which model(s)?

Looking around after purging about 100 dead drives a few months ago..

CDC Wrens seem to be holding up OK, IMI 5012 and 5018 and ST-412s

Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[js--- via cctalk]

On 2/9/2018 12:25 PM, Chuck Guzis via 
cctalk wrote:

On 02/09/2018 05:20 AM, allison via cctalk wrote:


At the other extreme I have over a dozen Quantum D540s (RD52 31mb full
height)
that are really old and getting older and still work without issues. 
Some of those

have sat on the shelf for a decade and work fine when I need one.

I've still got a Q540 mounted on its side in a MAD Intelligent Systems
case--I fired it up about a week ago and it's still working just fine.

--Chuck



A tangential question out of curiosity: 
who here has 5.25" MFM drives they're 
extremely surprised are still working, 
and which model(s)?


I'll start.  I've quite a few MFM 
drives, but the ones that really 
surprise me are (2) Seagate ST-506, and 
(2) IMI CM-5412.   My surprise is b/c 
these are amongst the earliest of models.


I've performed *some* work on all these 
drives, such as cleaning and caps 
reforming, but haven't yet discovered a 
way to lube motors & bearings.   I think 
lube issues will spell their ultimate 
demise.


- John

Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 02/09/2018 05:20 AM, allison via cctalk wrote:

> At the other extreme I have over a dozen Quantum D540s (RD52 31mb full
> height)
> that are really old and getting older and still work without issues. 
> Some of those
> have sat on the shelf for a decade and work fine when I need one.

I've still got a Q540 mounted on its side in a MAD Intelligent Systems
case--I fired it up about a week ago and it's still working just fine.

--Chuck

RE: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[Rob Jarratt via cctalk]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of emanuel
> stiebler via cctalk
> Sent: 09 February 2018 08:16
> To: Ian <ian.fin...@gmail.com>; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic
> Posts <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death
> 
> On 2018-02-08 21:05, Ian via cctalk wrote:
> > On Feb 8, 2018, at 11:03, Tom Gardner via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> XT2190 was first produced in 3Q 1984 and last produced in 1989 which gives
> yours a remarkable life span and well beyond the them at most 5 year
> warranty.
> >> Be thankful they lasted this long.
> >
> > Good point.
> >
> > The lisp machines I’ve been using the drives with are way past their prime
> too- pushing 34+ years outside of their warranty.
> >
> > I think next time one fails, instead of trying to understand the problem and
> repair it so it can last another 30, I’ll just be thankful it lasted this 
> long, gold
> scrap the boards, and build a gaming PC out of the case.
> 
> I thought there are some MFM drive emulators out there by now?

Indeed there are. I use the one designed by David Gesswein, it is great. 
However I think the OP was talking about ESDI as well. I don't know how ESDI 
differs from MFM.

Regards

Rob 

Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[emanuel stiebler via cctalk]

On 2018-02-08 21:05, Ian via cctalk wrote:
> On Feb 8, 2018, at 11:03, Tom Gardner via cctalk  
> wrote:
>>
>> XT2190 was first produced in 3Q 1984 and last produced in 1989 which gives 
>> yours a remarkable life span and well beyond the them at most 5 year 
>> warranty.
>> Be thankful they lasted this long.
> 
> Good point. 
> 
> The lisp machines I’ve been using the drives with are way past their prime 
> too- pushing 34+ years outside of their warranty.
> 
> I think next time one fails, instead of trying to understand the problem and 
> repair it so it can last another 30, I’ll just be thankful it lasted this 
> long, gold scrap the boards, and build a gaming PC out of the case. 

I thought there are some MFM drive emulators out there by now?

Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 02/08/2018 10:17 PM, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote:
> Any idea if the drive orientation during storage might make any
> difference in the failure rate? Usual PCB side down, PCB side up,
> either side down, either end down? My guess it that it is best to
> store them in the usual PCB side down orientation, but that is just a
> guess.

Mine are stored on their sides, but I wonder if storing them inverted
(PCB down) would be best for ensuring lubrication distribution.

--Chuck

Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[Glen Slick via cctalk]

Any idea if the drive orientation during storage might make any
difference in the failure rate? Usual PCB side down, PCB side up,
either side down, either end down? My guess it that it is best to
store them in the usual PCB side down orientation, but that is just a
guess.

Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 2/8/18 4:03 PM, Ian via cctalk wrote:
> 

> I don’t have a lot of background here- what goes wrong with them?
> 

I have been told a common failure mode was for them to open. Maybe something
bad happens between the platter and head over time (metal-metal corrosion)?

And who knows what sort of nastyness happens if the two are in contact for
extended periods of time in the presence of humidity.

Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[Ian via cctalk]

> 
>> On 02/08/2018 12:28 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
>> 
>> Little concrete analysis has actually been done on these drives that has 
>> been released outside the
>> drive recovery shops.

Al, thanks for the thoughtful response- I was genuinely unaware heads could 
simply fail outside of the obvious catastrophic modes. (I.E. head crashes)

I don’t have a lot of background here- what goes wrong with them?

I do wish that the cumulative knowledge developed by these data recovery 
outfits was just a smidge more public- and I know there are some outfits who 
claim to “refurbish” old HDAs, although I have no idea what they actually do.

I’d be very curious if you or any other list members have more insight into how 
these processes work.

I would like to some day build an SMD and ESDI emulator, but until then there 
are a lot of misbehaved drives out there- and if there’s anything that can buy 
them time, even enough to get a good read, there’s goodness there.

- I

Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 02/08/2018 12:28 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
> 
> 
> On 2/8/18 12:05 PM, Ian via cctalk wrote:
>> it seems no one on the list is interested in discussion beyond anecdotes 
>> when it comes to 80s hardware.
>>
> 
> Little concrete analysis has actually been done on these drives that has been 
> released outside the
> drive recovery shops.

Speaking for myself, I don't see this as a lack of interest, but rather
acknowledging the inevitable.  These drives are mechanical devices,
subject to the eventual problems of wear.  Hey, they've survived better
than that old Yugo sitting in the junkyard.

I've got a few Maxtor ST506, SCSI, and ESDI-interface FH drives.   Some
of them even work.  But I'm not surprised when they stop working.


--Chuck

Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[Mike Stein via cctalk]

I'm definitely interested but didn't have anything to contribute other than 
that I have both XT2190s and XT1140s that are still working (at least for now).

So yes, please share whatever you find.

m

- Original Message - 
From: "Ian via cctalk" <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
To: "Tom Gardner" <t.gard...@computer.org>; "General Discussion: On-Topic and 
Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2018 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death


On Feb 8, 2018, at 11:03, Tom Gardner via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> 
> XT2190 was first produced in 3Q 1984 and last produced in 1989 which gives 
> yours a remarkable life span and well beyond the them at most 5 year warranty.
> Be thankful they lasted this long.

Good point. 

The lisp machines I’ve been using the drives with are way past their prime too- 
pushing 34+ years outside of their warranty.

I think next time one fails, instead of trying to understand the problem and 
repair it so it can last another 30, I’ll just be thankful it lasted this long, 
gold scrap the boards, and build a gaming PC out of the case. 

It did, after all, have a good run. /s

I will now try, likely in vain, to put this thread back on the rails-

A colleague, offline, in the first useful and on-topic response to my query, 
tells me that there is an analog head preamplifier on the ribbon inside the HDA 
which is suspect- a drop out here can cause both the ‘missing head’ behavior, 
as well as the bad positioning behavior- if the head is on the servo track- 
common to these drives. 

This makes intuitive sense.

As there are a number of machines that *require* the ESDI Maxtor models- IBM 
RT, early SGI, Symbolics- in the absence of an ESDI emulator- I think repairs 
are a good option.

I’ll experiment on a 2190 MFM model I recently imaged that shows up with lots 
of errors on the same heads. It uses the same HDA as the ESDI models.

I’ll report back here, though it seems no one on the list is interested in 
discussion beyond anecdotes when it comes to 80s hardware.

My hope is that it simply needs the joints attaching it to the ribbon reflowed.

- I


> 
> Tom
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Ian Finder [mailto:ian.fin...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018 11:36 AM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death
> 
> XT2190s, XT1140s, some of the early ESDI disks...
> I have 6 XT2190s at home, and maybe one of the damn things works.
> 
> Does anyone out here know, beyond speculation, what some of the common 
> failure modes of these drives are? I'm not opposed to open-HDA surgery.
> 
> And I probably won't do anything.
> But the question of WHY this line of drives in particular sucks so much has 
> haunted me for some time...
> 
> - Ian
> 
> Honorable mention: CDC Sabre, Wren.
> 
> -- 
>   Ian Finder
>   (206) 395-MIPS
>   ian.fin...@gmail.com
> 
>

Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 2/8/18 12:05 PM, Ian via cctalk wrote:
> it seems no one on the list is interested in discussion beyond anecdotes when 
> it comes to 80s hardware.
> 

Little concrete analysis has actually been done on these drives that has been 
released outside the
drive recovery shops.

I would suspect the heads themselves before the preamps.

Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[Ian via cctalk]

On Feb 8, 2018, at 11:03, Tom Gardner via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> XT2190 was first produced in 3Q 1984 and last produced in 1989 which gives 
> yours a remarkable life span and well beyond the them at most 5 year warranty.
> Be thankful they lasted this long.

Good point. 

The lisp machines I’ve been using the drives with are way past their prime too- 
pushing 34+ years outside of their warranty.

I think next time one fails, instead of trying to understand the problem and 
repair it so it can last another 30, I’ll just be thankful it lasted this long, 
gold scrap the boards, and build a gaming PC out of the case. 

It did, after all, have a good run. /s

I will now try, likely in vain, to put this thread back on the rails-

A colleague, offline, in the first useful and on-topic response to my query, 
tells me that there is an analog head preamplifier on the ribbon inside the HDA 
which is suspect- a drop out here can cause both the ‘missing head’ behavior, 
as well as the bad positioning behavior- if the head is on the servo track- 
common to these drives. 

This makes intuitive sense.

As there are a number of machines that *require* the ESDI Maxtor models- IBM 
RT, early SGI, Symbolics- in the absence of an ESDI emulator- I think repairs 
are a good option.

I’ll experiment on a 2190 MFM model I recently imaged that shows up with lots 
of errors on the same heads. It uses the same HDA as the ESDI models.

I’ll report back here, though it seems no one on the list is interested in 
discussion beyond anecdotes when it comes to 80s hardware.

My hope is that it simply needs the joints attaching it to the ribbon reflowed.

- I


> 
> Tom
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Ian Finder [mailto:ian.fin...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018 11:36 AM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death
> 
> XT2190s, XT1140s, some of the early ESDI disks...
> I have 6 XT2190s at home, and maybe one of the damn things works.
> 
> Does anyone out here know, beyond speculation, what some of the common 
> failure modes of these drives are? I'm not opposed to open-HDA surgery.
> 
> And I probably won't do anything.
> But the question of WHY this line of drives in particular sucks so much has 
> haunted me for some time...
> 
> - Ian
> 
> Honorable mention: CDC Sabre, Wren.
> 
> -- 
>   Ian Finder
>   (206) 395-MIPS
>   ian.fin...@gmail.com
> 
> 

RE: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[Tom Gardner via cctalk]

XT2190 was first produced in 3Q 1984 and last produced in 1989 which gives 
yours a remarkable life span and well beyond the them at most 5 year warranty.
Be thankful they lasted this long.

Tom

-Original Message-
From: Ian Finder [mailto:ian.fin...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018 11:36 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

XT2190s, XT1140s, some of the early ESDI disks...
I have 6 XT2190s at home, and maybe one of the damn things works.

Does anyone out here know, beyond speculation, what some of the common failure 
modes of these drives are? I'm not opposed to open-HDA surgery.

And I probably won't do anything.
But the question of WHY this line of drives in particular sucks so much has 
haunted me for some time...

- Ian

Honorable mention: CDC Sabre, Wren.

-- 
   Ian Finder
   (206) 395-MIPS
   ian.fin...@gmail.com

Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[dwight via cctalk]

Although, it may seem that the heat while running can't effect a stored drive, 
heat is still a major contributor to such failures. Heat causes the seal on 
leads to fracture. While sitting on the shelf, moisture and other atmospheric 
contaminants get to the silicon inside. Most silicon has some layer of 
passivation but that can be compromised by heat as well.

Most failures are still related to the bonding wires. Exposure to the 
atmosphere will oxidize aluminum bonding, causing failure.

Dwight




From: cctalk <cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org> on behalf of Ian Finder via cctalk 
<cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2018 11:50:09 AM
To: allison; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

> Drives of the day were power hungry and ran hot.  Heat is a killer.

Yes, certainly heat is why these drives go onto a shelf working and come
off of it broken with servo and head amplifier problems at an astonishing
rate far higher than their contemporary brethren.
It also helps answer my question of common failure modes- surely, it must
be the refrigeration on the drives that fails while it is on the shelf.
Perhaps the freon slowly leaks.

Thank you for this insightful response.

Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[Ian Finder via cctalk]

> Drives of the day were power hungry and ran hot.  Heat is a killer.

Yes, certainly heat is why these drives go onto a shelf working and come
off of it broken with servo and head amplifier problems at an astonishing
rate far higher than their contemporary brethren.
It also helps answer my question of common failure modes- surely, it must
be the refrigeration on the drives that fails while it is on the shelf.
Perhaps the freon slowly leaks.

Thank you for this insightful response.

Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[allison via cctalk]

On 2/7/18 2:36 PM, Ian Finder via cctalk wrote:

XT2190s, XT1140s, some of the early ESDI disks...
I have 6 XT2190s at home, and maybe one of the damn things works.

Does anyone out here know, beyond speculation, what some of the common
failure modes of these drives are? I'm not opposed to open-HDA surgery.

And I probably won't do anything.
But the question of WHY this line of drives in particular sucks so much has
haunted me for some time...


Drives of the day were power hungry and ran hot.  Heat is a killer.

I have a few that work but I got them  young and kept them cool
so they held up much better.  The trick was BA123 (large and roomy)
and an extra fan behind it.

Another drive was the SA250, kept cool the ran long but with poor airflow
maybe 16 months.

Allison

htly boxed with
- Ian

Honorable mention: CDC Sabre, Wren.