Re: Ouch, but 2 Perqs out.
Hi all! Well another trip into the basement today. Found a second Perq type 1 keyboard (with the LED panel on the back), a pair of platform things that look like they might be digitizer pads, and about 20 MFM hard disk drives of every model and vintage. One of the Perq2's does not have a back panel (I can see the CPU boards) but the other one does. So the other one may have drives in it. I dragged out a BA11-SA type chassis and there is a pdp11/03 version of one with a very rusted rack slide part. Will figure those out later. However with the disks out I have space to put other stuff on the shelves and start working on getting the HP1000 out. With that out I'll have enough space to get the Suns somewhere and will try to take apart a T2 in situ to see if it can come up the stairs. If not I'll take the cards first, then disks, then go from there. Tired. CZ
Re: Ouch, but 2 Perqs out.
On Tue, Dec 22, 2020 at 11:28:54AM -0500, Chris Zach via cctech wrote: > ... > Ok. They're safe now and I'll see what else I can retrieve before the end of > year. That would be very cool. Good luck! > ... that would give me room to move more of the Sun junk out of the way > to unearth these. Careful there buddy, I was at Sun for 9 years :-) Cheers, Robb.
Re: Ouch, but 2 Perqs out.
I can see that it was a long day - but you are doing good work! Keep it up! Whereabouts is all this heavy lifting taking place, in the US? I wouldn't have expected to see ICL Perqs so far from home ... They're here in the US: I think one of these came from Sparrows Point Beth Steel, I remember seeing one like it in my long since ex girlfriends' house in the 1980's. That brings back bad memories, but I think the juju has faded by now. The brown one is the original Perq 1, as you now know. Since you have take out the hard disk (14 inch Shugart, as I recall) be aware that it should be stored upright. The platters had a tendency to warp under their own weight when stored sideways. Got it. I didn't take the disk out, one is in a frame of a Perq 1 and the other was in a complete-ish P1 that I took the CPU card cage and power supply out to make it light enough to get up the steps. There are some pretty big rubber isolators holding the disk assembly to the frame and yes at the moment it's all stored vertical with the disks pointing up. If it would be useful, when the time comes, I have a couple of ring binders here containing some ICL documentation from 1984-86. E.g. my Perq Specialist Training Notes and a set of Customer Service Information Sheets - for example see listing here: http://paste.c-net.org/RocketsSymbols These have some part numbers and tips which might perhaps be useful. I don't have a Perq, but I would love to get copies of any software that could be retrieved from these systems (Still looking forward to playing Pool (i.e. the game, with the balls) by Nigel Bond (?). Ok. They're safe now and I'll see what else I can retrieve before the end of year. My best chance might be to get the two Canon printers out of there; they are blocking access to other stuff and that would give me room to move more of the Sun junk out of the way to unearth these. Maybe I'll also get the Kaypros out of there as well to unearth that Compucom thing. C
Re: Ouch, but 2 Perqs out.
On Tue, Dec 22, 2020 at 3:53 PM Why 42? The lists account. via cctalk wrote: > > > On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 05:56:40PM -0500, Chris Zach via cctech wrote: > > This was a long day. Went over to the house and started working on getting > > the Perqs out of the basement. I've been moving smaller stuff to make room > > and it was time. > > I can see that it was a long day - but you are doing good work! Keep it > up! > > Whereabouts is all this heavy lifting taking place, in the US? I wouldn't > have expected to see ICL Perqs so far from home ... Err, the PERQ was originally designed/built by 3 Rivers Computer Corp in the States. I think some parts of the 2T1 (the one with the 8" Micropolis hard drive), in particular the hard disk interface board and the portrait monitor (based on a Kent Modular Electronics chassis) were from ICL, but the CPU, memory. EIO etc all come from the States. Of course the AGW3300 is an ICLmachine but I feel that's a PERQ in name only -tony
Re: Ouch, but 2 Perqs out.
On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 05:56:40PM -0500, Chris Zach via cctech wrote: > This was a long day. Went over to the house and started working on getting > the Perqs out of the basement. I've been moving smaller stuff to make room > and it was time. I can see that it was a long day - but you are doing good work! Keep it up! Whereabouts is all this heavy lifting taking place, in the US? I wouldn't have expected to see ICL Perqs so far from home ... The brown one is the original Perq 1, as you now know. Since you have take out the hard disk (14 inch Shugart, as I recall) be aware that it should be stored upright. The platters had a tendency to warp under their own weight when stored sideways. If it would be useful, when the time comes, I have a couple of ring binders here containing some ICL documentation from 1984-86. E.g. my Perq Specialist Training Notes and a set of Customer Service Information Sheets - for example see listing here: http://paste.c-net.org/RocketsSymbols These have some part numbers and tips which might perhaps be useful. I don't have a Perq, but I would love to get copies of any software that could be retrieved from these systems (Still looking forward to playing Pool (i.e. the game, with the balls) by Nigel Bond (?). Cheers, Robb.
Re: Ouch, but 2 Perqs out.
On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 10:00:43PM -0500, Chris Zach wrote: > > I'm going to have to get that GSC thing out as well if I am going to reach > these. > Looks like a rebadged HP 1000 series machine.
Re: Ouch, but 2 Perqs out.
After removing the above, you can remove the floppy drive (the normal 3 cable to an 8" drive and I think 3 screws) and the power supply (under the floppy drive, there are 3 output cables with in-line plugs and sockets, an IEC type main input on the back of the PSU chassis, and 2 screws at the front). The fan tray can come out too, but it's not worth doing. The empty chassis (no drives, boards, or PSU) is just about liftable. Thanks, that helps. Even though these things used switching power supplies (the chassis on the 1 there has a big message saying "warning switching supply, high voltages inside) they are still a pretty heavy component. I'll focus on getting the stuff off the top and getting the side bits in the next trip over. Also will be bringing some garbage bags to fill with the junk and wreckage that's down there as well, I should try to be a good person and clean out some of the techno-muck. The original mouse for the PERQ 1 (covered in the schematics book) is very rare and I don't think Bob had one. Most PERQ 1s and 1As used the Sumagraphics bit bad one, as you say with a GPIB interface. Ok, I think I saw a mouse or two like that, will pick them up next time. A PERQ 1 keyboard has a DA15 plug on the end that goes into the back of the processor box. Yep, photos coming in a bit. A PERQ 1 monitor has IIRC a DC37 plug carrying power, sync and video Yep, photos coming in a bit. A PERQ 2 montor has a DA15 cable for syncs and keyboard/mouse signals. A BNC cable for video. Portrait monitors have a power cable from the back of the processor box too. Landscape monitors have an IEC mains input connector, sometimes there's a cable to the power output socket on the PERQ, this operates a relay in the monitor to power the monitor up when you turn the system on. Others just have a power switch on the monitor. Ok. There are TV sets and other stuff in the piles, now that I know what I am looking for I'll see what's there. The key item is priority: I'm trying to remove the data first (hard drives, floppies, documentation, and those huge box of Perq tapes), then the historical/unique stuff, then stuff that is more commodity-historical, then the sun rocks if it's worth it. So any opinions from the list based on the pictures of "That is really important and should be in a museum CZ" will get the priority and the limited bandwidth of getting up the steps. :-) Thanks! CZ
Re: Ouch, but 2 Perqs out.
Looks like an HP-1000 E-Series 2109 or 2113 sitting on top of the Perq box. Yes. I don't know much about the HP series computers. So I should take it up the steps (is it heavy?), and is it historical like the Perqs? C
RE: Ouch, but 2 Perqs out.
There might be info here http://sw.ccs.bcs.org/iclarch/ You don't have mini DAO?? https://www.computerconservationsociety.org/wg-mildap.htm Dave G4UGM > -Original Message- > From: cctalk On Behalf Of Chris Zach via > cctalk > Sent: 12 December 2020 22:57 > To: CCTalk mailing list > Subject: Ouch, but 2 Perqs out. > > This was a long day. Went over to the house and started working on getting > the Perqs out of the basement. I've been moving smaller stuff to make room > and it was time. > > First up was a Perq1 chassis that just had the big disk drive in it, side and > rear > panels. I figured it was lightest and after taking off the sides and top was > able > to lift it and carry it up steps. Still heavy and bulky, but it made room and > a > path to get to the second one. > > The second one was a mess but a lot heavier: It still had the card cage in it > and I was not going to be able to lift. So I figured out how to take the > sides, > top, front, back, and bottom (pounds are made of ounces) and then spottted > the screws that hold the card cage and power supply in the box. Bless the > people at perq, those two screws out and you can lift the cage out the side of > the box. > > The card cage without cards (took them out to lighten) was heavy but I got it > up the steps. Then with a herculean amount of effort I managed to carry the > rest of the box up, followed by the sides, top, front, back, and bottom > plates. > > There are still two more Perqs down there. They have heavier front plates (I > was able to take them off) with real shielding. They were different designs, > so they were not Perq1s and they are not the same as each other. > > Question: Are there any pictures of other types of Perqs? > > Unfortunately they are still buried under old Sun gear and a Vaxserver of > some sort. So I'll have to think about those, but they will need to come apart > as well. > > Question: Do the card cages and stuff come off the later Perqs as well? > > Also got two different types of keyboards that say Perq, and a monitor that > looks like a big fat white Vetrex and says Three Rivers. > > Question: What does a Perq mouse look like? > > At least this stuff will not be junked. I'll take pictures and such tomorrow > and > throw a tarp over everything tonight because I'm too tired to get it out of > the > truck. > > I swore off high-mass hobbies for a reason
Re: Ouch, but 2 Perqs out.
On Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 8:56 PM Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: > > http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/17020/ICL-PERQ-2-T1-Workstation/ > > > > A bit more uncommon over here, I think... > > More like this: Here is a shot of the two of them from the front. > > https://www.crystel.com/bob/perq3/DSC_0121.JPG > > I'm going to have to get that GSC thing out as well if I am going to > reach these. > > Other pictures here. > > https://www.crystel.com/bob/perq3 Looks like an HP-1000 E-Series 2109 or 2113 sitting on top of the Perq box.
Re: Ouch, but 2 Perqs out.
On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 11:30 PM Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote: > > Question: Do the card cages and stuff come off the later Perqs as well? > > > > Not as easily. They can all be disassembled to a point but it's not nearly > as simple as the PERQ 1/1A. > > If you pull the side, front, and rear panels off (be careful there -- the > drives are mounted to the rear, and there are cables to deal with), and > pull the boards, it should be significantly lighter. After removing the above, you can remove the floppy drive (the normal 3 cable to an 8" drive and I think 3 screws) and the power supply (under the floppy drive, there are 3 output cables with in-line plugs and sockets, an IEC type main input on the back of the PSU chassis, and 2 screws at the front). The fan tray can come out too, but it's not worth doing. The empty chassis (no drives, boards, or PSU) is just about liftable. > > Question: What does a Perq mouse look like? > > > > It varies. See the Digibarn T2 pictures for one example; the Summagraphics > Bit Pad One was another common option -- big white tablet about 15" square > with a 4-button wired puck. GPIB interface. There was also the Kriz > tablet which was smaller and had three buttons. The original mouse for the PERQ 1 (covered in the schematics book) is very rare and I don't think Bob had one. Most PERQ 1s and 1As used the Sumagraphics bit bad one, as you say with a GPIB interface. The PERQ 2 mouse is a smaller tablet with a normal mouse-shaped thing (3 buttons) wired to it. There are 2 versions, for portrait and landscape machines. The cable ends in a DIN plug that goes into a socket on the monitor. The PERQ 2 keyboard is connected in the same way. A PERQ 1 keyboard has a DA15 plug on the end that goes into the back of the processor box. A PERQ 1 monitor has IIRC a DC37 plug carrying power, sync and video A PERQ 2 montor has a DA15 cable for syncs and keyboard/mouse signals. A BNC cable for video. Portrait monitors have a power cable from the back of the processor box too. Landscape monitors have an IEC mains input connector, sometimes there's a cable to the power output socket on the PERQ, this operates a relay in the monitor to power the monitor up when you turn the system on. Others just have a power switch on the monitor. -tony
Re: Ouch, but 2 Perqs out.
http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/17020/ICL-PERQ-2-T1-Workstation/ A bit more uncommon over here, I think... More like this: Here is a shot of the two of them from the front. https://www.crystel.com/bob/perq3/DSC_0121.JPG I'm going to have to get that GSC thing out as well if I am going to reach these. Other pictures here. https://www.crystel.com/bob/perq3
Re: Ouch, but 2 Perqs out.
On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 6:31 PM Chris Zach wrote: > > DigiBarn has a few pictures of a PERQ 1 and a T2: > > > > http://www.digibarn.com/collections/systems/perqt2/index.html > > Yep, the 1 is out, and one of the other two is a T2 like the picture. > > > There's the rarer PERQ 2, which I have a picture of here: > > Hm. The other one does not look like that, it is similar in shape to the > T2 but it's a different shape and says ICL on the front. I grabbed both > of the front panels because they were accessible, will post pics in a bit. > Something like this, then? http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/17020/ICL-PERQ-2-T1-Workstation/ A bit more uncommon over here, I think... > > If you pull the side, front, and rear panels off (be careful there -- > > the drives are mounted to the rear, and there are cables to deal with), > > and pull the boards, it should be significantly lighter. > > Ok. Next time I go over I'll see if I can at least uncover one. Maybe I > can stack the Sun gear where the Perq1 was. > > > Sounds like the newer-style portrait monitor for the PERQ 2 to me. > > Yeah, it reminded me of that 66 line terminal people had in the early > 80's. It was up and down, not side to side, were the other monitors > landscape only? > The PERQ 1 was originally portrait, there were landscape options later on, which became more prevalent with the T1 and T2 models. > > And a big DB style plug to go into the computer. > > > It varies. See the Digibarn T2 pictures for one example; the > > Summagraphics Bit Pad One was another common option -- big white tablet > > about 15" square with a 4-button wired puck. GPIB interface. There was > > also the Kriz tablet which was smaller and had three buttons. > > Ok, there are a lot of junk sun keyboards and mice in there and it's a > mess with all the general crud. What does the plug going to the Perq > look like? Are they optical or mechanical? > Neither. Electromagnetic :). The Bit Pad One has a GPIB cable (which on the T2 and maybe the T1 is a DB15), the Kriz tablet used a DB15 (IIRC). > > > > Looking forward to pictures! > > I'll post some in a bit. Not very good ones, but best we can do. > Cool! - Josh > Chris >
Re: Ouch, but 2 Perqs out.
DigiBarn has a few pictures of a PERQ 1 and a T2: http://www.digibarn.com/collections/systems/perqt2/index.html Yep, the 1 is out, and one of the other two is a T2 like the picture. There's the rarer PERQ 2, which I have a picture of here: Hm. The other one does not look like that, it is similar in shape to the T2 but it's a different shape and says ICL on the front. I grabbed both of the front panels because they were accessible, will post pics in a bit. If you pull the side, front, and rear panels off (be careful there -- the drives are mounted to the rear, and there are cables to deal with), and pull the boards, it should be significantly lighter. Ok. Next time I go over I'll see if I can at least uncover one. Maybe I can stack the Sun gear where the Perq1 was. Sounds like the newer-style portrait monitor for the PERQ 2 to me. Yeah, it reminded me of that 66 line terminal people had in the early 80's. It was up and down, not side to side, were the other monitors landscape only? And a big DB style plug to go into the computer. It varies. See the Digibarn T2 pictures for one example; the Summagraphics Bit Pad One was another common option -- big white tablet about 15" square with a 4-button wired puck. GPIB interface. There was also the Kriz tablet which was smaller and had three buttons. Ok, there are a lot of junk sun keyboards and mice in there and it's a mess with all the general crud. What does the plug going to the Perq look like? Are they optical or mechanical? Looking forward to pictures! I'll post some in a bit. Not very good ones, but best we can do. Chris
Re: Ouch, but 2 Perqs out.
On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 2:56 PM Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: > This was a long day. Went over to the house and started working on > getting the Perqs out of the basement. I've been moving smaller stuff to > make room and it was time. > > First up was a Perq1 chassis that just had the big disk drive in it, > side and rear panels. I figured it was lightest and after taking off the > sides and top was able to lift it and carry it up steps. Still heavy and > bulky, but it made room and a path to get to the second one. > > The second one was a mess but a lot heavier: It still had the card cage > in it and I was not going to be able to lift. So I figured out how to > take the sides, top, front, back, and bottom (pounds are made of ounces) > and then spottted the screws that hold the card cage and power supply in > the box. Bless the people at perq, those two screws out and you can lift > the cage out the side of the box. > > The card cage without cards (took them out to lighten) was heavy but I > got it up the steps. Then with a herculean amount of effort I managed to > carry the rest of the box up, followed by the sides, top, front, back, > and bottom plates. > > There are still two more Perqs down there. They have heavier front > plates (I was able to take them off) with real shielding. They were > different designs, so they were not Perq1s and they are not the same as > each other. > > Question: Are there any pictures of other types of Perqs? > DigiBarn has a few pictures of a PERQ 1 and a T2: http://www.digibarn.com/collections/systems/perqt2/index.html There's the rarer PERQ 2, which I have a picture of here: https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aqb36sqnCIfMo9970DK9zAIhDnnUjg > > Unfortunately they are still buried under old Sun gear and a Vaxserver > of some sort. So I'll have to think about those, but they will need to > come apart as well. > > Question: Do the card cages and stuff come off the later Perqs as well? > Not as easily. They can all be disassembled to a point but it's not nearly as simple as the PERQ 1/1A. If you pull the side, front, and rear panels off (be careful there -- the drives are mounted to the rear, and there are cables to deal with), and pull the boards, it should be significantly lighter. > > Also got two different types of keyboards that say Perq, and a monitor > that looks like a big fat white Vetrex and says Three Rivers. > Sounds like the newer-style portrait monitor for the PERQ 2 to me. > > Question: What does a Perq mouse look like? > It varies. See the Digibarn T2 pictures for one example; the Summagraphics Bit Pad One was another common option -- big white tablet about 15" square with a 4-button wired puck. GPIB interface. There was also the Kriz tablet which was smaller and had three buttons. > > At least this stuff will not be junked. I'll take pictures and such > tomorrow and throw a tarp over everything tonight because I'm too tired > to get it out of the truck. > Looking forward to pictures! - Josh > I swore off high-mass hobbies for a reason >
