Re: Storage for 1/2" open reel tape
On 4/8/19 9:06 PM, Jeff Woolsey via cctech wrote: >> I've noted earlier that the vinyl "hanger strips" for 1/2" magnetic tape >> have been degrading, becoming brittle and simply breaking away, >> sometimes in small particles. > > I have about a hundred tapes from various contributors, and have noticed > no age-related [1] deterioration of the seals, probably because mine > don't get handled very much. About 1/3 of mine have the vinyl hanger > strips, another third the autoload seals, and the remainder are in the > bulky canisters (with several different closures). I also have a couple > of tape racks (think "dish rack") that hold maybe thirty tapes, but the > canisters are too thick to fit in. That's great--but these are customer tapes, not mine and many are from the 1960s and 70s. (About 2/3s of the current batch are 7-track) Perhaps 50 years of storage takes its toll. I don't know. The other minor annoyance is that 40-50 years tends to dry out the adhesive on labels and less often, leader splices. As far as racks go, you can sometimes find the 16mm film racks at auction--they rarely attract bids. They're mostly Neumade products. --Chuck
Re: Storage for 1/2" open reel tape
On 4/8/19 9:26 PM, Adrian Stoness via cctech wrote: whats with the weird tag on this thread? It looks like the spaces got encoded as %20 for some reason. -- Grant. . . . unix || die
Re: Storage for 1/2" open reel tape
> I've noted earlier that the vinyl "hanger strips" for 1/2" magnetic tape
> have been degrading, becoming brittle and simply breaking away,
> sometimes in small particles.
I have about a hundred tapes from various contributors, and have noticed
no age-related [1] deterioration of the seals, probably because mine
don't get handled very much. About 1/3 of mine have the vinyl hanger
strips, another third the autoload seals, and the remainder are in the
bulky canisters (with several different closures). I also have a couple
of tape racks (think "dish rack") that hold maybe thirty tapes, but the
canisters are too thick to fit in.
The tapes hang pretty well from the front lip of the wall-mounted wire
shelves (that you can get at most big-box-home-stores) I installed not
for that purpose.
The thing is, I've read and photographed most of them, so I don't need
[2] them anymore. Their owners, like me, only wanted the data online,
not the media back. Most museums have more than they want or can use, as
well. Some tapes have common-sense restrictions on redistribution
(Personally Identifiable Information, I think they call it nowadays).
I've even got some new, never-written ones. But it pains me to trash
them, so I'm open to suggestions.
=
[1] I have dropped and broken a couple of them, but that was due to
insufficient age of the handler... Some did not survive the reading
process due to oxide-binder aging, but the seals are fine.
[2] In many cases, usually by repurposing extra copies of software
distribution tapes, the most recent data is shorter than the original,
so the tails of older things past the EOF1 label and double tapemark can
be read without much difficulty. The thing is, I didn't figure this out
until I'd been reading tapes a while, so the earlier ones may yield to
re-examining.
--
Jeff Woolsey {{woolsey,jlw}@jlw,first.last@{gmail,jlw}}.com
Nature abhors straight antennas, clean lenses, and empty storage.
"Delete! Delete! OK!" -Dr. Bronner on disk space management
Card-sorting, Joel. -Crow on solitaire
Re: Storage for 1/2" open reel tape
On 4/8/19 10:44 AM, Kevin Monceaux via cctalk wrote: > On Fri, Apr 05, 2019 at 10:57:54AM -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > >> I hit on the idea of using 16mm move film plastic "cans". Much to my >> surprise, I found that there is still an active market for these things. > > My small 16mm collection is stored on an open reel tape cart. I'm not following. Are you proposing this for magnetic tape? --Chuck
Re: Storage for 1/2" open reel tape
I hit on the idea of using 16mm move film plastic "cans". Much to my surprise, I found that there is still an active market for these things. On Mon, 8 Apr 2019, Kevin Monceaux via cctalk wrote: My small 16mm collection is stored on an open reel tape cart. I wonder how tape rings would do on 16mm reels?
Re: Storage for 1/2" open reel tape
On Fri, Apr 05, 2019 at 10:57:54AM -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > I hit on the idea of using 16mm move film plastic "cans". Much to my > surprise, I found that there is still an active market for these things. My small 16mm collection is stored on an open reel tape cart. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: Storage for 1/2" open reel tape
This is what the end of a short 6" Univac leader looks like: https://i.imgur.com/wPH93Cz.jpg Apologies for the poor quality, but even with the naked eye, it's hard to see that the leader end is "looped" I might be able to enhance this a bit with some image finagling, if anyone's interested. The other end is cut in 45 degree traditional splice. --Chuck
RE: Storage for 1/2" open reel tape
> -Original Message- > From: cctalk On Behalf Of Chuck Guzis via > cctalk > Sent: 06 April 2019 01:46 > To: Paul Koning via cctalk > Subject: Re: Storage for 1/2" open reel tape > > On 4/5/19 5:31 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > > > If this works, which is most of the time, it's a great time saver. As an > operator you just hang the reel on the spindle, hit "load" and walk away to > the next task. > > > > I think IBM may have originated this magic; several of the later DEC tape > drives supported it as well (TU77 and TU/TA78, if memory serves). > Honeywell had it on their systems as well. It was great when it worked but sometimes a tape wouldn't load > Univac had an interesting setup for Uniservo tape drives--I see a lot of reels > with a short (maybe 6") "leader" with a hole spliced onto tapes. > I'm not sure how that worked--but on many, if not most of the reels I've > seen, the splicing tape has dried out and the little leader just falls right > off. IBM and Honeywell tapes usually had a little dimple in the end so it didn't stick down. There was a special tape cutter you could get that rounded off the end and put the dimple in, > > --Chuck Dave
Re: Storage for 1/2" open reel tape
On 4/5/19 6:13 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > I had to re-thread the UNISERVO that is on display at CHM. I have to try > to find my pictures that I took. > > http://bitsavers.org/pdf/univac/magtape/PX899_Mechanical_Parts_of_UNISERVO_Apr58.pdf > > show it. > My guess on the vintage of these is Uniservo VIII (late 60s).
Re: Storage for 1/2" open reel tape
the other thing I had wondered about was how they kept metal tape from destroying the head. there is a spool of plastic tape that goes between the head and the tape On 4/5/19 6:13 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > > On 4/5/19 5:45 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > >> Univac had an interesting setup for Uniservo tape drives--I see a lot of >> reels with a short (maybe 6") "leader" with a hole spliced onto tapes. >> I'm not sure how that worked > > I had to re-thread the UNISERVO that is on display at CHM. I have to try > to find my pictures that I took. > > http://bitsavers.org/pdf/univac/magtape/PX899_Mechanical_Parts_of_UNISERVO_Apr58.pdf > > show it. > > There is are two hooks that are attached to the reels and it is attached > essentially to > nylon fishing line. > > >
Re: Storage for 1/2" open reel tape
On 4/5/19 5:45 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > Univac had an interesting setup for Uniservo tape drives--I see a lot of > reels with a short (maybe 6") "leader" with a hole spliced onto tapes. > I'm not sure how that worked I had to re-thread the UNISERVO that is on display at CHM. I have to try to find my pictures that I took. http://bitsavers.org/pdf/univac/magtape/PX899_Mechanical_Parts_of_UNISERVO_Apr58.pdf show it. There is are two hooks that are attached to the reels and it is attached essentially to nylon fishing line.
Re: Storage for 1/2" open reel tape
On 4/5/19 5:31 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > If this works, which is most of the time, it's a great time saver. As an > operator you just hang the reel on the spindle, hit "load" and walk away to > the next task. > > I think IBM may have originated this magic; several of the later DEC tape > drives supported it as well (TU77 and TU/TA78, if memory serves). Univac had an interesting setup for Uniservo tape drives--I see a lot of reels with a short (maybe 6") "leader" with a hole spliced onto tapes. I'm not sure how that worked--but on many, if not most of the reels I've seen, the splicing tape has dried out and the little leader just falls right off. --Chuck
Re: Storage for 1/2" open reel tape
> On Apr 5, 2019, at 7:15 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk > wrote: > >> ... >> But basically, just behind the "hook", there's a black plastic latch. When >> closed, it tensions the white band. >> https://www.electronicsurplus.it/open2b/var/products/27/92/0-d95b2a25-800.jpg > > ACK > > I'm getting the mental impression that it's somewhat like a spring form pan. > The latch opens and releases tension off of the strip that goes around the > tape reel. When it's latched, it cinches against it. When it's unlatched, > there's enough play to allow the tape reel to come out. > > Am I remotely close? Correct. The latch has a thin section which acts as a flexible hinge, and the other end hooks around a hook shape molded into the tip of the white band. When you push the latch against the reel it snaps closed and spring tension holds it that way. The autoloading latch (in http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/media.html) is somewhat similar but with some important differences. The latch can flex around the thin part near the left end. There are actually two parts, pinned together so the thing essentially folds over itself. And the far end in turn is pinned to the tape seal (the end to the right of the seam, in the photo). You mount it into the drive seal and all. The drive has a mechanism that engages the latch and flips it open, which unfolds the folded latch shape and thereby forces the two ends of the seal apart maybe 3/4 inch. There are some locating shapes that keep the two ends aligned, you can see the button that does this just to the right of the latch, its stud moves in a slot on the seal band. That sliding action opens up a window (holes in the two halves slide to align). So at this point the reel can rotate freely because the seal is no longer clamped onto the rim, and air blowing through holes in the seal blows the end of the tape out through that window. To make this more reliable the end of the tape is cut with a arced end and sometimes stiffened slightly. The vacuum system picks up that end, pulls it through the tape path, sucks it onto the takeup hub, and presto changeo, the tape is loaded. Usually. If this works, which is most of the time, it's a great time saver. As an operator you just hang the reel on the spindle, hit "load" and walk away to the next task. I think IBM may have originated this magic; several of the later DEC tape drives supported it as well (TU77 and TU/TA78, if memory serves). paul
Re: Storage for 1/2" open reel tape
On Fri, Apr 5, 2019 at 4:54 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > On 4/5/19 4:15 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: > > > ACK > > > > I'm getting the mental impression that it's somewhat like a spring form > > pan. The latch opens and releases tension off of the strip that goes > > around the tape reel. When it's latched, it cinches against it. When > > it's unlatched, there's enough play to allow the tape reel to come out. > > > > Am I remotely close? > > You're very close--same idea. They came in two varieties (that I remember seeing). A more rigid one like the springform pan; unlatching it allowed a few inch gap, and the ring would expand enough for the reel to be removed. (I also seem to remember seeing tape drives that would open the latch and draw the tape through the gap - the reel was still "inside" the ring, but clear enough for the reel to spin.) The other variety was a much more flexible material, more like a clothing belt. It could easily be pulled straight. -- Charles
Re: Storage for 1/2" open reel tape
On 4/5/19 4:15 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: > ACK > > I'm getting the mental impression that it's somewhat like a spring form > pan. The latch opens and releases tension off of the strip that goes > around the tape reel. When it's latched, it cinches against it. When > it's unlatched, there's enough play to allow the tape reel to come out. > > Am I remotely close? You're very close--same idea. When I get a chance, I'll do some close-ups on the mechanism. But same idea--the latch puts the band under tension. That works fine, so long as the structural integrity of the band is maintained. Failures commonly occur around the "holes" punched in the vinyl, but I've seem some bands that are neatly split down the middle. > I wonder if some of this could be 3D printed. I don't know--and I don't know if it would be economically feasible. At less than $6 for a poly "can" that completely encloses the tape, that's a tough target. The nutty thing is that I remember when CDC Sunnyvale went to the vinyl band "hangers" in their facility rather than the wire "racks" that held the reel and its acrylic case (tremendous variation there). I recall seeing dumpsters full of the acrylic cases. Maybe somewhere there's a landfill stuffed full with them... I wonder how long it will be before no non-senior adult remembers CD jewel cases. I recall getting rid of several boxes of Plextor-type CD caddies only a couple of decades ago. --Chuck
Re: Storage for 1/2" open reel tape
On 4/5/19 4:44 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: The IRS facility photo used the IBM style; not flexible, but rather a two-part sliding rigid plastic arrangement. I think that the IRS also used a robotic "picker. I'd hazard a guess that the IRS acquired theirs from IBM. Even if they are more expensive per reel / hanger, they are approved, from an approved vendor, in the system. "Hay Bob, order X hangers next time you submit an order." No need to think beyond that. It just happens. I'd have to take a photo of one, I think, though if you have a very ancient Wright-Line catalog, it's probably in there. But basically, just behind the "hook", there's a black plastic latch. When closed, it tensions the white band. https://www.electronicsurplus.it/open2b/var/products/27/92/0-d95b2a25-800.jpg ACK I'm getting the mental impression that it's somewhat like a spring form pan. The latch opens and releases tension off of the strip that goes around the tape reel. When it's latched, it cinches against it. When it's unlatched, there's enough play to allow the tape reel to come out. Am I remotely close? I wonder if some of this could be 3D printed. what was convenient with those is that the latch-and-hook are attached to the vinyl band by fitting with a couple of holes punched in the band. In a pinch, you could make hangers for smaller (than 10.5") reels by cutting and punching new holes. ACK -- Grant. . . . unix || die
Re: Storage for 1/2" open reel tape
On Fri, 5 Apr 2019, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 4/5/19 2:58 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: On 4/5/19 3:20 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: See how each reel of tape hangs from a slot in a horizontal bar? Those white-and-black strips wrapped around the tapes are what I'm referring to as being deteriorated. How does that come off the reel? Does the reel slide out? Does it unlatch? Do you have a picture of one without the tape reel in it? The IRS facility photo used the IBM style; not flexible, but rather a two-part sliding rigid plastic arrangement. I think that the IRS also used a robotic "picker. I'd have to take a photo of one, I think, though if you have a very ancient Wright-Line catalog, it's probably in there. There's a good picture of the IBM autoloading tape seal on this page: http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/media.html Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
Re: Storage for 1/2" open reel tape
On 4/5/19 2:58 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: > On 4/5/19 3:20 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: >> See how each reel of tape hangs from a slot in a horizontal bar? Those >> white-and-black strips wrapped around the tapes are what I'm referring >> to as being deteriorated. > > How does that come off the reel? > > Does the reel slide out? Does it unlatch? Do you have a picture of one > without the tape reel in it? The IRS facility photo used the IBM style; not flexible, but rather a two-part sliding rigid plastic arrangement. I think that the IRS also used a robotic "picker. I'd have to take a photo of one, I think, though if you have a very ancient Wright-Line catalog, it's probably in there. But basically, just behind the "hook", there's a black plastic latch. When closed, it tensions the white band. https://www.electronicsurplus.it/open2b/var/products/27/92/0-d95b2a25-800.jpg what was convenient with those is that the latch-and-hook are attached to the vinyl band by fitting with a couple of holes punched in the band. In a pinch, you could make hangers for smaller (than 10.5") reels by cutting and punching new holes. --Chuck
Re: Storage for 1/2" open reel tape
On 4/5/19 3:20 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: See how each reel of tape hangs from a slot in a horizontal bar? Those white-and-black strips wrapped around the tapes are what I'm referring to as being deteriorated. How does that come off the reel? Does the reel slide out? Does it unlatch? Do you have a picture of one without the tape reel in it? -- Grant. . . . unix || die
Re: Storage for 1/2" open reel tape
On 4/5/19 1:49 PM, Ali via cctalk wrote: >> I hit on the idea of using 16mm move film plastic "cans". Much to my >> surprise, I found that there is still an active market for these >> things. > > Chuck, > > For the uneducated amongst us exactly what are you referring to? Are you > talking about the plastic can where the tape sits in? Or the strap that goes > around the plastic cover or something entirely different? Take a look at the image here: https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/photo/historic-image-of-an-old-computer-tape-high-res-stock-photography/128587299 See how each reel of tape hangs from a slot in a horizontal bar? Those white-and-black strips wrapped around the tapes are what I'm referring to as being deteriorated. Here's a photo of a single tape reel with one: http://ibmcollectable.com/gallery/album124/2400ft_tape IBM used a somewhat different attachment for their auto-loading drives. I can't find an online photo of one, but I have several of those. Rather than using a single flexible strip, they used a multi-part rigid plastic surround. --Chuck
RE: Storage for 1/2" open reel tape
> I hit on the idea of using 16mm move film plastic "cans". Much to my > surprise, I found that there is still an active market for these > things. Chuck, For the uneducated amongst us exactly what are you referring to? Are you talking about the plastic can where the tape sits in? Or the strap that goes around the plastic cover or something entirely different? Thanks. -Ali
