Re: PAL on CDU-700 / 710 Unibus disk controllers

2016-04-27 Thread Glen Slick 
On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 2:29 PM, Ian Finder  wrote:
> It's the useless tape controller chip variant, but still worth dumping for
> reference?
>

I wouldn't say a SCSI tape controller is useless, always fun for
installing software from tape just for the heck of it. But that's
beside the point for now.

Anyway, yes it would be still worth dumping the CDU-710/T CSR decode
PAL fuse map just for reference and to confirm that are earlier
attempts are reverse engineering it were correct, and use that as the
starting point for a 710/M or 710/TM PAL in the absence of one of
those to also dump.

Re: PAL on CDU-700 / 710 Unibus disk controllers

2016-04-27 Thread Glen Slick 
On Apr 27, 2016 10:19 AM, "Ian Finder"  wrote:
>
> It is most certainly PLS
>

Interesting. Then we should definitely try reading it and if we can we
should be able to turn the fuse map back into the logic equations. A PLS173
is a fairly straightforward device.

Re: PAL on CDU-700 / 710 Unibus disk controllers

2016-04-27 Thread Ian Finder 
It is most certainly PLS

On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 6:00 PM, Glen Slick  wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 3:04 PM, Ian Finder  wrote:
> > The spec sheet from the PAL mfg. (signetics PLS173) seems to indicate
> > security fuses aren't an option on the model on my board. I have not
> > actually tried yet.
> >
>
> A PLS173 does not have a security fuse.
> A PLUS173 does have a security fuse.
>
> On my CMD CDU-720/M there are some PLS173 parts, but the CSR decode
> PAL is a PLUS173 part, so I assume it is secured.
>
> Double check whether the CSR decode PAL on your CDU-710 is a PLS173 or
> a PLUS173.
>
> -Glen
>



-- 
   Ian Finder
   (206) 395-MIPS
   ian.fin...@gmail.com

Re: PAL on CDU-700 / 710 Unibus disk controllers

2016-04-26 Thread Glen Slick 
On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 3:04 PM, Ian Finder  wrote:
> The spec sheet from the PAL mfg. (signetics PLS173) seems to indicate
> security fuses aren't an option on the model on my board. I have not
> actually tried yet.
>

A PLS173 does not have a security fuse.
A PLUS173 does have a security fuse.

On my CMD CDU-720/M there are some PLS173 parts, but the CSR decode
PAL is a PLUS173 part, so I assume it is secured.

Double check whether the CSR decode PAL on your CDU-710 is a PLS173 or
a PLUS173.

-Glen

Re: PAL on CDU-700 / 710 Unibus disk controllers

2016-04-26 Thread Mike Ross 
I'm on holiday with my kids just - ping me next week when I'm home!
On Apr 27, 2016 9:59 AM, "Ian Finder"  wrote:

> Hey Mike,
>
> The docs claim the 700 / 710 TM use PAL P70013A at U102, and the 720
> TM uses PAL P720008A at U102, but I don't think it'd catch anything on fire
> to try it.
>
> Could you send the two EPROM images too? Sounds like a great opportunity to
> break in your BP (Baller Programmer) 1200...
>
> Remember to save the buffer from the Data Pattern window :)
>
> - Ian
>
> On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Mike Ross  wrote:
>
> > Is a 720TM any use? I just acquired one... And a BP-1200.…
> >
> > Mike
> > On Apr 27, 2016 9:35 AM, "Ian Finder"  wrote:
> >
> > > Does anyone out there have one of these controllers?
> > >
> > > There is an unprotected PAL- the address decoder- and I really need a
> > dump
> > > of it. Many programmers, particularly the BP technologies ones, can
> read
> > it
> >
>
>
>
> --
>Ian Finder
>(206) 395-MIPS
>ian.fin...@gmail.com
>

Re: PAL on CDU-700 / 710 Unibus disk controllers

2016-04-26 Thread Glen Slick 
On Apr 26, 2016 3:04 PM, "Ian Finder"  wrote:
>
> The spec sheet from the PAL mfg. (signetics PLS173) seems to indicate
> security fuses aren't an option on the model on my board. I have not
> actually tried yet.
>

Regardless of what the spec sheet does or does not explicitly say, I think
when I selected that device in the BPWin device programmer software there
was an option to protect the device after programming. I'm mobile now, I
can check that later.

Re: PAL on CDU-700 / 710 Unibus disk controllers

2016-04-26 Thread Ian Finder 
The spec sheet from the PAL mfg. (signetics PLS173) seems to indicate
security fuses aren't an option on the model on my board. I have not
actually tried yet.

Failing that, if I can find one locally, there are only 12 bits of
combinatorial inputs.

I could easily whip up a little Arduino project on a breadboard to walk
thru all 4096 states and log the outputs for manual factoring.

- Ian

On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 3:00 PM, Glen Slick  wrote:

> On Apr 26, 2016 2:35 PM, "Ian Finder"  wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone out there have one of these controllers?
> >
> > There is an unprotected PAL- the address decoder- and I really need a
> dump of it. Many programmers, particularly the BP technologies ones, can
> read it
>
> Curious how you know it is not a protected PAL? The PALs are protected on
> all of the CMD CQD adapters I have looked at. I can't remember if I
> bothered checking the PAL on my CDU-720/M
>



-- 
   Ian Finder
   (206) 395-MIPS
   ian.fin...@gmail.com

Re: PAL on CDU-700 / 710 Unibus disk controllers

2016-04-26 Thread Glen Slick 
On Apr 26, 2016 2:35 PM, "Ian Finder"  wrote:
>
> Does anyone out there have one of these controllers?
>
> There is an unprotected PAL- the address decoder- and I really need a
dump of it. Many programmers, particularly the BP technologies ones, can
read it

Curious how you know it is not a protected PAL? The PALs are protected on
all of the CMD CQD adapters I have looked at. I can't remember if I
bothered checking the PAL on my CDU-720/M

Re: PAL on CDU-700 / 710 Unibus disk controllers

2016-04-26 Thread Mike Ross 
Is a 720TM any use? I just acquired one... And a BP-1200.…

Mike
On Apr 27, 2016 9:35 AM, "Ian Finder"  wrote:

> Does anyone out there have one of these controllers?
>
> There is an unprotected PAL- the address decoder- and I really need a dump
> of it. Many programmers, particularly the BP technologies ones, can read it