Re: Paper tape carriers and paper tape

[Philipp Hachtmann via cctalk]

On 11/13/2016 05:09 AM, John Labovitz wrote:


A few years back, while photographing letterpress printers (see
http://johnlabovitz.com/projects/letterpress), I met a fellow (Rob
Barnes) in Denver who specializes in die-cutting. Like most die-cut
operators, he uses mid-20th century Heidelberg letterpress printing
presses. I have no idea if he’s interested in a retro-punch card
project, but it might be worth contacting him.


Nice pictures!

I would do the die cutting - but I'm in Europe. Have two Heidelberg 
windmills and a Heidelberg Cylinder. On the windmills I could make many 
cards (thousands to ten thousands), using the cylinder I could process 
tons of paper.



Frankly, I think the harder task is to find a good stock of
appropriate paper.

Right. The old problem..

Re: Paper tape carriers and paper tape

[william degnan via cctalk]

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 10:16 AM, Philipp Hachtmann via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
>
> On 11/11/2016 05:53 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
>
> No stock, or no cards?  I would think that one of the paper manufacturers
>>> would be putting out postcard stock of the right specifications.
>>>
>> This has been discussed for several years here. No one is making paper
>> stock to IBM card stock specifications.
>>
> Yes. No wonder... But perhaps one could find something that is just
> similar enough. There are so many papers out there! If you want the
> official stuff with (not only that!) X and y separately specified shrink
> rated with respect to humidity, specified dielectric constant and so on -
> you're lost. But if you look for something that just runs pretty nicely on
> old card readers, it could (!) be easier.
>
> Using a paper folder to convert roll to fanfold has also been discussed.
>> Nothing has resulted from either discussion.
>>
> The missing word: "yet" - who knows what will still happen!
>
> Philipp
>

I would check with the greenkeys guys.  Some of them may have a few cases
available.
b

Re: Paper tape carriers and paper tape

[Philipp Hachtmann via cctalk]

On 11/11/2016 05:53 PM, Al Kossow wrote:


No stock, or no cards?  I would think that one of the paper manufacturers would 
be putting out postcard stock of the right specifications.

This has been discussed for several years here. No one is making paper stock to 
IBM card stock specifications.
Yes. No wonder... But perhaps one could find something that is just 
similar enough. There are so many papers out there! If you want the 
official stuff with (not only that!) X and y separately specified shrink 
rated with respect to humidity, specified dielectric constant and so on 
- you're lost. But if you look for something that just runs pretty 
nicely on old card readers, it could (!) be easier.



Using a paper folder to convert roll to fanfold has also been discussed.
Nothing has resulted from either discussion.

The missing word: "yet" - who knows what will still happen!

Philipp

Re: Paper tape carriers and paper tape

[Philipp Hachtmann via cctalk]

On 11/11/2016 04:32 PM, Al Kossow wrote:

There are no suppliers, and the NOS stuff is all gone.
No one is making new 80 column punched card stock either.

Really? I thought there is still some card stock to buy.


On 11/10/16 5:36 PM, Charles Dickman wrote:

And where can I get new fan-fold paper tape to put in the trays?


Would it be interesting to make new paper tapes? I once built a 
prototype of a fanfolding machine. It worked not perfectly due to lack 
of mechanic precision. But that could be fixed.


It's no problem to get some paper cut and rewound to the right 
dimensions. Even printing something interesting onto the roll is no big 
deal.
I'm so sorry about our factory (where I have my printshop and storage 
now): There was all the stuff needed to flexo print and cut paper tape 
rolls. In fact they even actually produced some punch tape in the past.


I sometimes thought about getting back into small scale (before it was 
HUGE) flexo printing and paper roll processing to create a small 
"vintage supplies" business.


Thought of teletype rolls (the sprocket oney!), paper tapes, FORTRAN 
coding forms (which I could already deliver from my letterpress shop!), 
CalComp plotter rolls and so on.


Philipp






--

Re: Paper tape carriers and paper tape

[Pontus Pihlgren]

On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 02:03:36PM -0800, Ian S. King wrote:
>
> Somewhere I have a photo of the machine that IBM used to make punch cards.
> It's in a small museum in Endicott, NY.  It did indeed take a roll of paper
> made to IBM specs and produce the flat punch cards many of us know and some
> subset of those, love.  It hadn't been run in years when I saw it.
> 

Ed has some pictures of it:

http://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/IBM-EndicottMuseum.html

/P

Re: Paper tape carriers and paper tape

[John Labovitz]

On Nov 12, 2016, at 2:24 PM, Paul Koning  wrote:

> There are lots of paper manufacturers and lots of grades and thickness of 
> paper.  The thickness we're talking about is one that shows up in a couple I 
> looked at.  So it wouldn't surprise me at all if suitable paper could be had. 
>  The matter of cutting it to the correct shape is a different issue, 
> admittedly.  

It may not be all that difficult. Perhaps the right method here is a die-cut, a 
common method for doing custom cuts of paper — often far more complicated than 
punch cards. The basic idea is that you build a form up with steel rules that 
define the edges you want cut. These rules essentially act as a blade. Then you 
mount this on a press, and run through a stack of paper as if you’re printing, 
but in fact you’re just cutting.

Here’s a basic overview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1NKLPYS0Vo

A few years back, while photographing letterpress printers (see 
http://johnlabovitz.com/projects/letterpress), I met a fellow (Rob Barnes) in 
Denver who specializes in die-cutting. Like most die-cut operators, he uses 
mid-20th century Heidelberg letterpress printing presses. I have no idea if 
he’s interested in a retro-punch card project, but it might be worth contacting 
him.

http://www.vintagepressworks.com

Frankly, I think the harder task is to find a good stock of appropriate paper.

Best,
—John

Re: Paper tape carriers and paper tape

[Paul Koning]

> On Nov 11, 2016, at 7:16 PM, jim stephens  wrote:
> 
> ...
> Hollerith card info (via Wikipedia)
> 
> Card size is exactly 7 3⁄8 by 3 1⁄4 inches (187.325 mm × 82.55 mm). The cards 
> are made
> of smooth stock, 0.007 inches (180 µm) thick. There are about 143 cards to
> the inch (56/cm).

I found another description of the specs in an old card reader/punch peripheral 
manual.  It also lists weight (0.534 lbs per 100 cards).  It gives tolerances 
(length +/- 0.005 inch, width +0.007, -0.003, angle between the sides 90 
degrees +/- 5 minutes, sides straight +/- 0.003 inches).  And, very 
interesting, it mentions that the orientation of the paper fibers shall be 
parallel to the long side.

There are lots of paper manufacturers and lots of grades and thickness of 
paper.  The thickness we're talking about is one that shows up in a couple I 
looked at.  So it wouldn't surprise me at all if suitable paper could be had.  
The matter of cutting it to the correct shape is a different issue, admittedly. 
 

paul

Re: Paper tape carriers and paper tape

[jim stephens]

On 11/12/2016 5:54 AM, Dave Wade wrote:

I e-mailed them and got no reply...


>Christian

Maybe if more people email, we might make them think there is a market.

http://www.hummel-print.com

looks like their main business from the web site is printing boarding 
pass stock, which be a little light for Hollerith cards, but certainly 
the size isn't a stretch.


Ralf Kunkel is director of marketing, sales.

rkun...@hummel-print.com

Thanks
Jim

RE: Paper tape carriers and paper tape

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Christian
> Corti
> Sent: 12 November 2016 13:33
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Paper tape carriers and paper tape
> 
> On Fri, 11 Nov 2016, Al Kossow wrote:
> >>> No one is making new 80 column punched card stock either.
> >>
> >> No stock, or no cards?  I would think that one of the paper
> >> manufacturers would be putting out postcard stock of the right
> >> specifications.
> >
> > This has been discussed for several years here. No one is making paper
> > stock to IBM card stock specifications.
> 
> I think that Hummel in Magstadt still makes punched cards. We had an
> inquiry a few years ago when we wanted to have cards with our custom logo
> and layout. I think the price was 40 Euros per box of 2000.
> 

I e-mailed them and got no reply...

> Christian

Re: Paper tape carriers and paper tape

[Christian Corti]

On Fri, 11 Nov 2016, Al Kossow wrote:

No one is making new 80 column punched card stock either.


No stock, or no cards?  I would think that one of the paper 
manufacturers would be putting out postcard stock of the right 
specifications.


This has been discussed for several years here. No one is making paper 
stock to IBM card stock specifications.


I think that Hummel in Magstadt still makes punched cards. We had an 
inquiry a few years ago when we wanted to have cards with our custom logo 
and layout. I think the price was 40 Euros per box of 2000.


Christian

Re: Paper tape carriers and paper tape

[steven]

Tom Moss said:

> On 11 November 2016 at 15:42, Paul Koning  wrote:
>
>> Is punch tape still made?  I would guess so, for old CNC machines
>> perhaps.  That's typically roll tape, not fanfold.
>>
>
> There's a British supplier that recently had another run made, although
> it's on a roll.
> http://www.gnt.co.uk/papertape.htm

Can the right grade paper be bought on a large roll? If so, suppliers can
provide slitting services to cut them into any width required.
Or perhaps it could be done at home on roll slitting gadget such as this?:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Foil-Paper-Cutter-Slitter-Hot-Foil-Stamping-Roll-Cutting-Machine-Core-0-9-/251488509793

Steve.

Re: Paper tape carriers and paper tape

[jim stephens]

On 11/11/2016 3:05 PM, Dave Wade wrote:

Not seen one of those for ages, These days, at least in the UK, Credit Cards 
seem to come attached to a standard letter with a blob of sticky stuff...

Dave




Image of manual credit form here:

http://www.shipnfast.com/jpgs/2plbigpic.jpg

3-1/4 x 7-7/8 Inches

Stock from this site:
http://www.elect-mer.com/credit-card-slips/

Hollerith card info (via Wikipedia)

Card size is exactly 7 3⁄8 by 3 1⁄4 inches (187.325 mm × 82.55 mm). The 
cards are made

of smooth stock, 0.007 inches (180 µm) thick. There are about 143 cards to
the inch (56/cm).

Near as I can tell, 100 of the NCR carbonless forms is about an inch, so 
the thickness

of the stock should be close to Hollerith cards.

I'm a bit concerned now that the chipless technology is deployed in the 
US.  Many contracts
will have pretty significant penalties for swipe and non chip / 
signature transactions, so
the demand for manual backup like this will probably take a significant 
nosedive, with
merchants just declining the business till their machines work, rather 
than risk a chargeback

on a manual form.
Thanks
jim

RE: Paper tape carriers and paper tape

[Dave Wade]

Not seen one of those for ages, These days, at least in the UK, Credit Cards 
seem to come attached to a standard letter with a blob of sticky stuff...

Dave

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of jim
> stephens
> Sent: 11 November 2016 23:01
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Paper tape carriers and paper tape
> 
> The machine that is used where I'm referring to cuts from a roll about 2 cards
> wide.  The system also has to be able to merge up to four sheets together
> per form as the real product is for the full size credit card forms that one 
> uses
> with either NCR paper, or with carbon.  They can handle both.
> 
> they print with offset plates onto the stock, and not with the types of
> cylinders I've seen.  The Holerith card stock was made by taking an actual
> card, and measuring it and making a die to cut to that size, and scanning the
> image on the card.  not a big difference from the cards that are used in full
> sized credit card machines.
> 
> The machine is about 15' or more long, 2' wide and probably 10' high.
> Multiple stock roll holders can be positioned depending on the number of
> forms being laminated for the run, so the setup can get pretty large.
> 
> I don't know how many lines they had, but there were several of the
> machines.  Not sure I've got any photos, any I have were when I had a film
> camera, quite some time ago if I have any.
> 
> thanks
> jim
> 
> On 11/11/2016 2:46 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
> > CHM has one, and a collection of printing cylinders
> >
> > http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102670869
> >
> > On 11/11/16 2:03 PM, Ian S. King wrote:
> >
> >> Somewhere I have a photo of the machine that IBM used to make punch
> cards.
> >> It's in a small museum in Endicott, NY.  It did indeed take a roll of
> >> paper made to IBM specs and produce the flat punch cards many of us
> >> know and some subset of those, love.  It hadn't been run in years when I
> saw it.
> >>
> >

Re: Paper tape carriers and paper tape

[jim stephens]

The machine that is used where I'm referring to cuts from a roll about 2 
cards wide.  The system also has to be able to merge up to four sheets 
together per form as the real product is for the full size credit card 
forms that one uses with either NCR paper, or with carbon.  They can 
handle both.


they print with offset plates onto the stock, and not with the types of 
cylinders I've seen.  The Holerith card stock was made by taking an 
actual card, and measuring it and making a die to cut to that size, and 
scanning the image on the card.  not a big difference from the cards 
that are used in full sized credit card machines.


The machine is about 15' or more long, 2' wide and probably 10' high.  
Multiple stock roll holders can be positioned depending on the number of 
forms being laminated for the run, so the setup can get pretty large.


I don't know how many lines they had, but there were several of the 
machines.  Not sure I've got any photos, any I have were when I had a 
film camera, quite some time ago if I have any.


thanks
jim

On 11/11/2016 2:46 PM, Al Kossow wrote:

CHM has one, and a collection of printing cylinders

http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102670869

On 11/11/16 2:03 PM, Ian S. King wrote:


Somewhere I have a photo of the machine that IBM used to make punch cards.
It's in a small museum in Endicott, NY.  It did indeed take a roll of paper
made to IBM specs and produce the flat punch cards many of us know and some
subset of those, love.  It hadn't been run in years when I saw it.

Re: Paper tape carriers and paper tape

[Al Kossow]

CHM has one, and a collection of printing cylinders

http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102670869

On 11/11/16 2:03 PM, Ian S. King wrote:

> Somewhere I have a photo of the machine that IBM used to make punch cards.
> It's in a small museum in Endicott, NY.  It did indeed take a roll of paper
> made to IBM specs and produce the flat punch cards many of us know and some
> subset of those, love.  It hadn't been run in years when I saw it.
> 

Re: Paper tape carriers and paper tape

[Paul Berger]

On 2016-11-11 6:03 PM, Ian S. King wrote:

On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 1:56 PM, jim stephens  wrote:



On 11/11/2016 8:53 AM, Al Kossow wrote:


On 11/11/16 7:42 AM, Paul Koning wrote:

No one is making new 80 column punched card stock either.

No stock, or no cards?  I would think that one of the paper
manufacturers would be putting out postcard stock of the right
specifications.


This has been discussed for several years here. No one is making paper
stock to IBM card stock specifications.


A friend I know in St. Louis had them made regularly at an client's
operation.  The card stock for credit card pull forms is correct. They may
still have the dies for their machines.  However I don't think the favors
exist to get more made.

Can check though.   The card stock comes in 12' diameter rolls, so it
isn't a "pretty please" sort of favor to get the machines set up that
handle the manufacturing process.  Think rolls of paper the size of
newsprint, and weighing in at 3000# +

They might also be able to do paper tape, though I'd favor if it is a
scratch operation doing it from mylar, even though that is hard on punches.

thanks
Jim

Using a paper folder to convert roll to fanfold has also been discussed.

Nothing has resulted from either discussion.




Somewhere I have a photo of the machine that IBM used to make punch cards.
It's in a small museum in Endicott, NY.  It did indeed take a roll of paper
made to IBM specs and produce the flat punch cards many of us know and some
subset of those, love.  It hadn't been run in years when I saw it.

The machine is called a Carroll Press, the cylindrical printing plates 
still show up on eBay from time to time.  The presses crank out cards at 
about 800 a minute, they are feed from big rolls of card stock the 
machine cuts prints and boxes the cards.  In the late 80s I was working 
in the IBM Toronto Lab on the second floor of the old plant on Don Mills 
Rd. and there was still some Carroll Presses operating in the basement.  
You could hear the low rumble and feel the vibration on our floor when 
they where running.


Paul.

Re: Paper tape carriers and paper tape

[Ian S. King]

On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 1:56 PM, jim stephens  wrote:

>
>
> On 11/11/2016 8:53 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
>
>>
>> On 11/11/16 7:42 AM, Paul Koning wrote:
>>
>> No one is making new 80 column punched card stock either.

>>> No stock, or no cards?  I would think that one of the paper
>>> manufacturers would be putting out postcard stock of the right
>>> specifications.
>>>
>> This has been discussed for several years here. No one is making paper
>> stock to IBM card stock specifications.
>>
> A friend I know in St. Louis had them made regularly at an client's
> operation.  The card stock for credit card pull forms is correct. They may
> still have the dies for their machines.  However I don't think the favors
> exist to get more made.
>
> Can check though.   The card stock comes in 12' diameter rolls, so it
> isn't a "pretty please" sort of favor to get the machines set up that
> handle the manufacturing process.  Think rolls of paper the size of
> newsprint, and weighing in at 3000# +
>
> They might also be able to do paper tape, though I'd favor if it is a
> scratch operation doing it from mylar, even though that is hard on punches.
>
> thanks
> Jim
>
> Using a paper folder to convert roll to fanfold has also been discussed.
>>
>> Nothing has resulted from either discussion.
>>
>>
>>
Somewhere I have a photo of the machine that IBM used to make punch cards.
It's in a small museum in Endicott, NY.  It did indeed take a roll of paper
made to IBM specs and produce the flat punch cards many of us know and some
subset of those, love.  It hadn't been run in years when I saw it.

-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

Re: Paper tape carriers and paper tape

[jim stephens]

On 11/11/2016 8:53 AM, Al Kossow wrote:


On 11/11/16 7:42 AM, Paul Koning wrote:


No one is making new 80 column punched card stock either.

No stock, or no cards?  I would think that one of the paper manufacturers would 
be putting out postcard stock of the right specifications.

This has been discussed for several years here. No one is making paper stock to 
IBM card stock specifications.
A friend I know in St. Louis had them made regularly at an client's 
operation.  The card stock for credit card pull forms is correct. They 
may still have the dies for their machines.  However I don't think the 
favors exist to get more made.


Can check though.   The card stock comes in 12' diameter rolls, so it 
isn't a "pretty please" sort of favor to get the machines set up that 
handle the manufacturing process.  Think rolls of paper the size of 
newsprint, and weighing in at 3000# +


They might also be able to do paper tape, though I'd favor if it is a 
scratch operation doing it from mylar, even though that is hard on punches.


thanks
Jim

Using a paper folder to convert roll to fanfold has also been discussed.

Nothing has resulted from either discussion.

RE: Paper tape carriers and paper tape

[Mike Loewen]

On Fri, 11 Nov 2016, Dave Wade wrote:


There are no suppliers, and the NOS stuff is all gone.
No one is making new 80 column punched card stock either.


No stock, or no cards?  I would think that one of the paper manufacturers


I tried to get some made. Supplier could not source any card of the proper
thicknes...
... would love a box of cards


   Check with older IT staff members at your local universities.  Some of 
them still have boxes of unpunched cards that they use for making notes.



Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology  http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

RE: Paper tape carriers and paper tape

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Paul
> Koning
> Sent: 11 November 2016 15:43
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Paper tape carriers and paper tape
> 
> 
> > On Nov 11, 2016, at 10:32 AM, Al Kossow <a...@bitsavers.org> wrote:
> >
> > There are no suppliers, and the NOS stuff is all gone.
> > No one is making new 80 column punched card stock either.
> 
> No stock, or no cards?  I would think that one of the paper manufacturers

I tried to get some made. Supplier could not source any card of the proper
thicknes...
... would love a box of cards


> would be putting out postcard stock of the right specifications.  Cutting
it to
> proper card shape is not trivial, admittedly.
> 
> Is punch tape still made?  I would guess so, for old CNC machines perhaps.
> That's typically roll tape, not fanfold.
> 

In the UK GNT still supply
http://www.gnt.co.uk/papertape.htm

>   paul
> 
Dave
G4UGM

Re: Paper tape carriers and paper tape

[Tom Moss]

On 11 November 2016 at 16:53, Al Kossow  wrote:

> This has been discussed for several years here. No one is making paper
> stock to IBM card stock specification


Did all punch card manufacturers use the same stock though? I vaguely
recall ICL cards feeling somewhat smoother?

Re: Paper tape carriers and paper tape

[Al Kossow]

you can still buy rolls from Western NC
http://www.westnc.com/paper-tape-rolls.html

it ain't cheap


On 11/11/16 7:49 AM, Tom Moss wrote:
> On 11 November 2016 at 15:42, Paul Koning  wrote:
> 
>> Is punch tape still made?  I would guess so, for old CNC machines
>> perhaps.  That's typically roll tape, not fanfold.
>>
> 
> There's a British supplier that recently had another run made, although
> it's on a roll.
> http://www.gnt.co.uk/papertape.htm
> 

Re: Paper tape carriers and paper tape

[Al Kossow]

On 11/11/16 7:42 AM, Paul Koning wrote:

>> No one is making new 80 column punched card stock either.
> 
> No stock, or no cards?  I would think that one of the paper manufacturers 
> would be putting out postcard stock of the right specifications.

This has been discussed for several years here. No one is making paper stock to 
IBM card stock specifications.

Using a paper folder to convert roll to fanfold has also been discussed.

Nothing has resulted from either discussion.

Re: Paper tape carriers and paper tape

[Tom Moss]

On 11 November 2016 at 15:42, Paul Koning  wrote:

> Is punch tape still made?  I would guess so, for old CNC machines
> perhaps.  That's typically roll tape, not fanfold.
>

There's a British supplier that recently had another run made, although
it's on a roll.
http://www.gnt.co.uk/papertape.htm

Re: Paper tape carriers and paper tape

[Paul Koning]

> On Nov 11, 2016, at 10:32 AM, Al Kossow  wrote:
> 
> There are no suppliers, and the NOS stuff is all gone.
> No one is making new 80 column punched card stock either.

No stock, or no cards?  I would think that one of the paper manufacturers would 
be putting out postcard stock of the right specifications.  Cutting it to 
proper card shape is not trivial, admittedly.

Is punch tape still made?  I would guess so, for old CNC machines perhaps.  
That's typically roll tape, not fanfold.

paul

Re: Paper tape carriers and paper tape

[Al Kossow]

There are no suppliers, and the NOS stuff is all gone.
No one is making new 80 column punched card stock either.
That is why a box of fanfold sells for 25$ and up on eBay,
even more if it is has the DEC logo.

On 11/10/16 5:36 PM, Charles Dickman wrote:
> And where can I get new fan-fold paper tape to put in the trays?
> 
> 

Re: Paper tape carriers and paper tape

[Charles Dickman]

And where can I get new fan-fold paper tape to put in the trays?


On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Al Kossow  wrote:
> There has to be a better solution than either the vaccum or all-plex cases 
> for paper tape. Neither one is very good for
> anything other than what the slots were set up for (like 1") Short ones get 
> bunched together in a slot, and long ones
> bridge slots. Either way, you end up not being able to see the labels.
>
>> but creating a replica of the blue tape trays with
>> the clear overlay that one could sell for a few bucks with some random 
>> fanfold copies of DEC or other diagnostics would
>> be nice.
>>
>

Re: Paper tape carriers and paper tape

[Al Kossow]

There has to be a better solution than either the vaccum or all-plex cases for 
paper tape. Neither one is very good for
anything other than what the slots were set up for (like 1") Short ones get 
bunched together in a slot, and long ones
bridge slots. Either way, you end up not being able to see the labels.

> but creating a replica of the blue tape trays with
> the clear overlay that one could sell for a few bucks with some random 
> fanfold copies of DEC or other diagnostics would
> be nice.
>