Re: XXDP on PDP-11/03
> I don't know if the front console on the early UNIBUS machines works without > any memory on the UNIBUS - I'm too lazy to check. I have this vague memory > that > they do, though. The front console on the '45 indeed does run just fine with no UNIBUS (or FASTBUS) memory in the machine. Its is entirely implemented/mediated by CPU microcode and CPU internal state registers. --FritzM.
Re: XXDP on PDP-11/03
> From: Brent Hilpert > I wouldn't have thought any of the (various 11 CPU) ODTs used > interrupts for the console They don't. > Don't know which CPU Noel was referring to. The OP was having problems with an LSI-11 (M7264 quad card); I was working with an LSI-11/2 (M7270 dual card - I don't have any LSI-11's). But I'm pretty sure the CPUs on the two are identical; and certainly, both display the 'must have memory at 0 for ODT to work'. Noel
Re: XXDP on PDP-11/03
> From: Allison Parent > ! Seriously? ... Memory of some form there is a must. I don't know about you, but my approach in looking into hardware issues is often to start by reducing things to the simplest possible configuration that exhibits the failure. (I asssume the various reasons for that approach are obvious.) So, the OP couldn't get ODT to work. Well, what's the simplest config one needs for ODT? Well, a CPU (but it won't be executing any instructions, so one could leave HALT on), the console serial card (with a working terminal attached), a bus/backplane to plug them into, and a power supply. But no, the LSI-11 machines also want memory - although it's unused by ODT after a single read cycle at power-on. It's probably worth pointing out that this is _not_ true of the F-11 machines; those do ODT just fine without memory. Perhaps DEC got some complaints about the behaviour of the LSI-11, and made a change? I don't know if the front console on the early UNIBUS machines works without any memory on the UNIBUS - I'm too lazy to check. I have this vague memory that they do, though. > The architecture of pdp-11 has the first 256 words as interrupt vectors > and software locations. Some 'internal' interrupts from the CPU (e.g. NXM) are at fixed, low, locations (in Kernel D space on some of the models with MMU, to be technical - I don't know about the /40 and /34, etc), but there's nothing that restricts _device_ interrupts to be in low memory (either physical, or virtual on those machines which get vectors from Kernel virtual). E.g. in the "pdp-11 bus handbook" (EB 17525 20), pg. 119, it says "Place Vector on BDAL <15:00> L" - so one could use 014 if one wanted. Most DEC devices that do the vector with jumpers don't have posts for all 15 bits, it is true, but AFAIK no CPU looks at only the low bits on the bus. > How else would the console vectors at 60 work. ODT doesn't use interrupts. Noel
Re: XXDP on PDP-11/03
On 2019-Aug-14, at 1:26 PM, Allison Parent via cctalk wrote: > IPhoned it in! > >> On Aug 14, 2019, at 2:19 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk >> wrote: >> >> From: Jonathan (systems_glitch) > >> Yep, fun times on LSI-11/2! > > Heh, this one was _utterly trivial_ compared to the 'must have working memory > at 0 or ODT won't start'! (I don't think I've ever seen that one in DEC > documentation anywhere...) > > Noel > > ! Seriously? > The architecture of pdp-11 has > the first 256 words as interrupt > vectors and software locations. > Memory of some form there is > a must. How else would the console vectors at 60 work. Well, the J11 ODT works fine with no memory. I wouldn't have thought any of the (various 11 CPU) ODTs used interrupts for the console, and so wouldn't rely on the presence of vector memory. Don't know which CPU Noel was referring to.
Re: XXDP on PDP-11/03
IPhoned it in! > On Aug 14, 2019, at 2:19 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk > wrote: > > From: Jonathan (systems_glitch) > Yep, fun times on LSI-11/2! Heh, this one was _utterly trivial_ compared to the 'must have working memory at 0 or ODT won't start'! (I don't think I've ever seen that one in DEC documentation anywhere...) Noel ! Seriously? The architecture of pdp-11 has the first 256 words as interrupt vectors and software locations. Memory of some form there is a must. How else would the console vectors at 60 work.
Re: XXDP on PDP-11/03
> From: Jonathan (systems_glitch) > Yep, fun times on LSI-11/2! Heh, this one was _utterly trivial_ compared to the 'must have working memory at 0 or ODT won't start'! (I don't think I've ever seen that one in DEC documentation anywhere...) Noel
Re: XXDP on PDP-11/03
On 8/14/2019 10:17 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > From: Paul Koning > Isn't the interrupt disabled by RESET? Nope. On the -11/03 and KDF11-A, BEVNT is wired straight into the CPU, and there's no internal register to control it. The BDV11 does have a register which can enable/disable the LTC (it connects BEVNT to ground via a transistor when the appropriate register bit is cleared); but, ironically (given your question), BINIT/RESET does _not_ clear that register! Only BPOK does. (My theory is they were short of a bus receiver for BINIT, and rather than put a whole extra chip on the card...) So, once on, it has to be explicitly turned off, or the 'boot' switch (which toggles BPOK) has to be hit. The KDF11-B and all KDJ11 machines do have the LTC register, which operates 'correctly'. Noel Everyone was right about what I was experiencing. It was BEVNT/LTC. The front panel switches on the BA11-M I have read: [HALT] [RESTART] [AUX ON/OFF] and I can't turn off the LTC from the front panel. I had to set a switch on the BDV11 to disable BEVNT and with that XXDP booted up. Version 2.6. Would like to run the RXV21 diagnostics since I have a 2nd controller that fails to work with the RX02 emulator. Doug
Re: XXDP on PDP-11/03
Yep, fun times on LSI-11/2! Some configurations also won't boot unless it's on, if I remember correctly. I suppose this is part of the reason that LSI-11/2 CPU boards are so cheap! Thanks, Jonathan On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 10:17 AM Noel Chiappa via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > From: Paul Koning > > > Isn't the interrupt disabled by RESET? > > Nope. On the -11/03 and KDF11-A, BEVNT is wired straight into the CPU, and > there's no internal register to control it. > > The BDV11 does have a register which can enable/disable the LTC (it > connects > BEVNT to ground via a transistor when the appropriate register bit is > cleared); but, ironically (given your question), BINIT/RESET does _not_ > clear > that register! Only BPOK does. (My theory is they were short of a bus > receiver > for BINIT, and rather than put a whole extra chip on the card...) So, once > on, > it has to be explicitly turned off, or the 'boot' switch (which toggles > BPOK) > has to be hit. > > The KDF11-B and all KDJ11 machines do have the LTC register, which operates > 'correctly'. > > Noel >
Re: XXDP on PDP-11/03
> From: Paul Koning > Isn't the interrupt disabled by RESET? Nope. On the -11/03 and KDF11-A, BEVNT is wired straight into the CPU, and there's no internal register to control it. The BDV11 does have a register which can enable/disable the LTC (it connects BEVNT to ground via a transistor when the appropriate register bit is cleared); but, ironically (given your question), BINIT/RESET does _not_ clear that register! Only BPOK does. (My theory is they were short of a bus receiver for BINIT, and rather than put a whole extra chip on the card...) So, once on, it has to be explicitly turned off, or the 'boot' switch (which toggles BPOK) has to be hit. The KDF11-B and all KDJ11 machines do have the LTC register, which operates 'correctly'. Noel
Re: XXDP on PDP-11/03
> On Aug 14, 2019, at 7:31 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk > wrote: > >> From: Jerry Weiss > >> I turned BEVENT off and it boots successfully. I am not immediately >> sure why this is necessary. > > If an LTC interrupt happens before the OS has set up the LTC vector, etc, > hilarity ensues. > > E.g. the LTC has to be turned off before UNIX V6 will boot on an -11/23: > > http://gunkies.org/wiki/Running_UNIX_V6_on_an_-11/23 That's weird. Isn't the interrupt disabled by RESET? paul
Re: XXDP on PDP-11/03
> From: Jerry Weiss > I turned BEVENT off and it boots successfully. I am not immediately > sure why this is necessary. If an LTC interrupt happens before the OS has set up the LTC vector, etc, hilarity ensues. E.g. the LTC has to be turned off before UNIX V6 will boot on an -11/23: http://gunkies.org/wiki/Running_UNIX_V6_on_an_-11/23 I discovered this the hard way; I roached the disk on my simulated /23 when I didn't. Noel
Re: XXDP on PDP-11/03
That sounds like it is trapping due to an LTC interrupt. Turn off the LTC cheers, Nigel On 13/08/2019 21:05, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote: Recently, I assembled one of the RX02 emulator boards developed by AK6DN. I am using it presently in a BA11-M box with PDP-11/2 cpu (really basic 16 bit system). I put the disk images from github on the SD card (RT11 V5.07 and XXDP not sure what version). The box has a BDV11 bootstrap / terminator board and I use this to boot the RX02 emulator. Works fine when I boot RT11, however I can't boot XXDP - it halts at 000104. Do I need to use a different version of XXDP to run on the PDP-11/03? Doug -- Nigel Johnson MSc., MIEEE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! You can reach me by voice on Skype: TILBURY2591 If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number of system administrators along the way. Nigel Johnson Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message
Re: XXDP on PDP-11/03
There are two versions of XXDP+ V2 monitors. The XXDPSM.SYS is needed for cpu's w/o MMU's or don't have more than 28KW. This and XXDPXM.SYS are both on the AK6DN diagnostic image. However, only a few other programs exist on the image. In SIMH the AK6DN image does the same thing. The halt location 100 is near the LTC vector. I turned BEVENT off and it boots successfully. I am not immediately sure why this is necessary. sim> show cpu CPU 11/03, NOEIS, NOFIS, BEVENT disabled, autoconfiguration enabled, idle disabled 56KB sim> show ry RY address=1170-1173, vector=264, BR5, 2 units RY0 512KB, attached to XXDP.RX2, write enabled double density RY1 512KB, not attached, write enabled double density sim> boot ry MEMORY MANAGEMENT UNIT NOT FOUND BOOTING UP XXDP-SM SMALL MONITOR XXDP-SM SMALL MONITOR - XXDP V2.6 REVISION: E0 BOOTED FROM DY0 28KW OF MEMORY NON-UNIBUS SYSTEM RESTART ADDRESS: 152010 TYPE "H" FOR HELP .H ? NOT FOUND: HELP .TXT From a XXDPXM boot. .DIR ENTRY# FILNAM.EXT DATE LENGTH START VERSION 1 XXDPXM.SYS 1-MAR-89 39 67 F.0 2 XXDPSM.SYS 1-MAR-89 29 000136 E.0 3 DRSXM .SYS 1-MAR-89 48 000173 C.0 4 DRSSM .SYS 1-MAR-89 24 000253 G.2 5 DIR .SYS 1-MAR-89 7 000303 D.0 6 DB .SYS 1-MAR-89 2 000312 C.0 7 DD .SYS 1-MAR-89 3 000314 D.0 8 DL .SYS 1-MAR-89 4 000317 D.0 9 DM .SYS 1-MAR-89 4 000323 C.0 10 DR .SYS 1-MAR-89 3 000327 C.0 11 DU .SYS 1-MAR-89 4 000332 E.0 12 DY .SYS 1-MAR-89 3 000336 D.0 13 LP .SYS 1-MAR-89 1 000341 B.0 14 MM .SYS 1-MAR-89 3 000342 C.0 15 MS .SYS 1-MAR-89 4 000345 C.0 16 MU .SYS 1-MAR-89 4 000351 E.0 17 DATE .SYS 1-MAR-89 2 000355 B.0 18 DUSZ .SYS 1-MAR-89 2 000357 C.0 19 ZRXAF0.BIC 1-MAR-89 17 000361 20 ZRXBF0.BIC 1-MAR-89 16 000402 21 ZRXCA0.BIN 1-MAR-89 7 000422 22 ZRXDC0.BIC 1-MAR-89 30 000431 23 ZRXEA2.BIC 1-MAR-89 17 000467 24 ZRXFB0.BIC 1-MAR-89 31 000510 FREE BLOCKS: 629 Jerry On 8/13/19 8:05 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote: Recently, I assembled one of the RX02 emulator boards developed by AK6DN. I am using it presently in a BA11-M box with PDP-11/2 cpu (really basic 16 bit system). I put the disk images from github on the SD card (RT11 V5.07 and XXDP not sure what version). The box has a BDV11 bootstrap / terminator board and I use this to boot the RX02 emulator. Works fine when I boot RT11, however I can't boot XXDP - it halts at 000104. Do I need to use a different version of XXDP to run on the PDP-11/03? Doug
