Re: SCSI Controller Hanging...

[David Brownlee via cctalk]

On 24 January 2018 at 16:33, Jack Harper via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> Hello Plamen -
>
> I use the SCSI controller that is built into the MVME177 transition module.
>
> No, when I RESET the system, I just press the RESET button on the processor
> board - usually when it is hung with my software.  On this system, I only
> code in 68K assembly and so I do see the "occasional" hang :)
>
> Is the "SCSI reset option" part of the 68K/BUG RESET command?
>
> In my documentation - and I easily may not have the latest documentation - I
> only see RESET options to force a COLD or WARM start on hardware RESET.
>
> The documentation that I have also cautions: "...may cause the disk
> controller to be out of phase with respect to the disk configuration tables
> in memory", which certainly makes sense.
>
> However, I do not modify any of those tables from system default.
>
> I appreciate your input.
>

Do you have any other software you can use to test the hardware - if
it experiences the same issues then you know its hardware related.

I think NetBSD supports the MVME177 board (
http://www.netbsd.org/ports/mvme68k/boards.html#MVME177%20family ) I'm
sure there are others.

You also mention you have multiple VME boards in the cage and multiple
SCSI drives. Does the issue occur when you strip everything down to a
single board set and drive?

(*) Theoretically other CPU boards may not be able to affect the SCSI,
but a near first rule of hardware strangeness is to pull everything
thats not needed so you can be sure :)

David

Re: SCSI Controller Hanging...

[Jack Harper via cctalk]

Hello Plamen -

I use the SCSI controller that is built into the MVME177 transition module.

No, when I RESET the system, I just press the 
RESET button on the processor board - usually 
when it is hung with my software.  On this 
system, I only code in 68K assembly and so I do see the "occasional" hang :)


Is the "SCSI reset option" part of the 68K/BUG RESET command?

In my documentation - and I easily may not have 
the latest documentation - I only see RESET 
options to force a COLD or WARM start on hardware RESET.


The documentation that I have also cautions: 
"...may cause the disk controller to be out of 
phase with respect to the disk configuration 
tables in memory", which certainly makes sense.


However, I do not modify any of those tables from system default.

I appreciate your input.


Regards,

Jack
Evergreen, Colorado




At 11:57 AM 1/23/2018, Plamen Mihaylov wrote:

What SCSI controller are you using - MVME320, 327 or 328 ?
Do you reset the MVME177 board using RESET 
command from 177bug> along with SCSI bus reset  option?


Best regards,
Plamen


On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 6:33 PM, Jack Harper via 
cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:


Greetings to the List from the Snowy Rocky Mountains.

Beautiful clear sunny day here at +9F :)

The SCSI controller on the 68K development 
system (VMEbus) that I have cobbled together 
occasionally hangs after I reset one of the 
processor boards (there are four MVME177-005 68060 boards in the VME rack).


The hang then happens when my software touches 
the SCSI drives via the ROM'd 68K/Bug I/O 
primitives and the hang will not go away even 
after another reset until I cycle power.


I have never before dealt with SCSI as a 
programmer - does this sound like something is configured incorrectly?


There is not much to configure.

I point out that I am not certain that I have 
the termination resistors correct.



Thoughts?

I appreciate any advice.


Regards,

Jack
Evergreen Colorado





--
Jack Harper, President
Secure Outcomes Inc
2942 Evergreen Parkway, Suite 300
Evergreen, Colorado 80439 USA

303.670.8375
303.670.3750Â (fax)

http://www.secureoutcomes.net 
for Product Info.




--
Jack Harper, President
Secure Outcomes Inc
2942 Evergreen Parkway, Suite 300
Evergreen, Colorado 80439 USA

303.670.8375
303.670.3750 (fax)

http://www.secureoutcomes.net for Product Info. 

Re: SCSI Controller Hanging...

[Plamen Mihaylov via cctalk]

What SCSI controller are you using - MVME320, 327 or 328 ?
Do you reset the MVME177 board using RESET command from 177bug> along with
SCSI bus reset  option?

Best regards,
Plamen


On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 6:33 PM, Jack Harper via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
> Greetings to the List from the Snowy Rocky Mountains.
>
> Beautiful clear sunny day here at +9F :)
>
> The SCSI controller on the 68K development system (VMEbus) that I have
> cobbled together occasionally hangs after I reset one of the processor
> boards (there are four MVME177-005 68060 boards in the VME rack).
>
> The hang then happens when my software touches the SCSI drives via the
> ROM'd 68K/Bug I/O primitives and the hang will not go away even after
> another reset until I cycle power.
>
> I have never before dealt with SCSI as a programmer - does this sound like
> something is configured incorrectly?
>
> There is not much to configure.
>
> I point out that I am not certain that I have the termination resistors
> correct.
>
>
> Thoughts?
>
> I appreciate any advice.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jack
> Evergreen Colorado
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> --
> Jack Harper, President
> Secure Outcomes Inc
> 2942 Evergreen Parkway, Suite 300
> Evergreen, Colorado 80439 USA
>
> 303.670.8375
> 303.670.3750 (fax)
>
> http://www.secureoutcomes.net for Product Info.
>

Re: SCSI Controller Hanging...

[Jack Harper via cctalk]

Great information/advice Jules.

I appreciate it - and know more about SCSI now than before.

Regards,

Jack



At 11:15 AM 1/23/2018, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:

On 01/23/2018 10:33 AM, Jack Harper via cctalk wrote:


Greetings to the List from the Snowy Rocky Mountains.

Beautiful clear sunny day here at +9F :)


It's a toasty 20F here in northern MN :)


I have never before dealt with SCSI as a programmer - does this sound like
something is configured incorrectly?

There is not much to configure.


I'm not sure about incorrect config, but I'm guessing it could be a 
software issue (rather than hardware) - i.e. board reset is also 
causing a reset of the SCSI bus in some odd way which is then 
offlining/confusing any attached devices. Does it just happen with a 
reset of one specific CPU board, or is it any of them?



I point out that I am not certain that I have the termination resistors
correct.


Termination's easy enough - in theory :-)  A single set of 
termination at each end of the bus, never in the middle - and 
double-termination at either end will cause weird things to happen.


If it's a 16-bit SCSI bus then you need termination either end of 
both high/low 'halves' (sometimes people will park an 8-bit device 
via a cable adapter at the end of a 16-bit bus, and stick an 8-bit 
terminator on the device, which leaves the high side of the 16 bit 
bus unterminated and causes glitches)


*Something* on the bus needs to provide +5V on the SCSI TERMPWR 
line; the terminators need this to work. I think typically the bus 
adapter (i.e. controller) will do this, but I seem to recall that 
the adapter in my Apple IIGS has no support for it and expects one 
of the attached devices to do it (some will via a jumper setting, 
but some won't)


I think that some 16-bit devices will automagically work on an 8-bit 
SCSI bus, but I don't know if there's any guarantee of that.


Other than that, if you've got external devices then try and use the 
best quality cables that you can find - there used to be some really 
cheap junk out there which could cause all sorts of oddball problems.


cheers

Jules




--
Jack Harper, President
Secure Outcomes Inc
2942 Evergreen Parkway, Suite 300
Evergreen, Colorado 80439 USA

303.670.8375
303.670.3750 (fax)

http://www.secureoutcomes.net for Product Info. 

Re: SCSI Controller Hanging...

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 01/23/2018 10:33 AM, Jack Harper via cctalk wrote:


Greetings to the List from the Snowy Rocky Mountains.

Beautiful clear sunny day here at +9F :)


It's a toasty 20F here in northern MN :)


I have never before dealt with SCSI as a programmer - does this sound like
something is configured incorrectly?

There is not much to configure.


I'm not sure about incorrect config, but I'm guessing it could be a 
software issue (rather than hardware) - i.e. board reset is also causing a 
reset of the SCSI bus in some odd way which is then offlining/confusing any 
attached devices. Does it just happen with a reset of one specific CPU 
board, or is it any of them?



I point out that I am not certain that I have the termination resistors
correct.


Termination's easy enough - in theory :-)  A single set of termination at 
each end of the bus, never in the middle - and double-termination at either 
end will cause weird things to happen.


If it's a 16-bit SCSI bus then you need termination either end of both 
high/low 'halves' (sometimes people will park an 8-bit device via a cable 
adapter at the end of a 16-bit bus, and stick an 8-bit terminator on the 
device, which leaves the high side of the 16 bit bus unterminated and 
causes glitches)


*Something* on the bus needs to provide +5V on the SCSI TERMPWR line; the 
terminators need this to work. I think typically the bus adapter (i.e. 
controller) will do this, but I seem to recall that the adapter in my Apple 
IIGS has no support for it and expects one of the attached devices to do it 
(some will via a jumper setting, but some won't)


I think that some 16-bit devices will automagically work on an 8-bit SCSI 
bus, but I don't know if there's any guarantee of that.


Other than that, if you've got external devices then try and use the best 
quality cables that you can find - there used to be some really cheap junk 
out there which could cause all sorts of oddball problems.


cheers

Jules

Re: SCSI Controller Hanging...

[Jack Harper via cctalk]

Hello Bill -

Yes, there are two 4GB (32-bit addressing) SCSI 
drives on the system and they do have different drive numbers.


I will double check the SCSI termination resistor things.

Motorola documentation is very sparse on this - 
"attach the termination resistor" - nothing on 
exactly where or what the resistor thing looks like.


I am far stronger in software than hardware.

I appreciate the adive.

Regards,

Jack
Evergreen, Colorado



At 09:47 AM 1/23/2018, william degnan wrote:


On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 11:33 AM, Jack Harper 
via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:


Greetings to the List from the Snowy Rocky Mountains.

Beautiful clear sunny day here at +9F :)

The SCSI controller on the 68K development 
system (VMEbus) that I have cobbled together 
occasionally hangs after I reset one of the 
processor boards (there are four MVME177-005 68060 boards in the VME rack).


The hang then happens when my software touches 
the SCSI drives via the ROM'd 68K/Bug I/O 
primitives and the hang will not go away even 
after another reset until I cycle power.


I have never before dealt with SCSI as a 
programmer - does this sound like something is configured incorrectly?


There is not much to configure.

I point out that I am not certain that I have 
the termination resistors correct.



Thoughts?

I appreciate any advice.


Regards,

Jack
Evergreen Colorado



Jack,
Yes, two things that I'd be checking
1) Make sure all drives are assigned a different number
2) Make sure you have termination somewhere.

Depending on the OS there are commands to 
display the scsi devices attached, as the OS sees them.


BillÂ


--
Jack Harper, President
Secure Outcomes Inc
2942 Evergreen Parkway, Suite 300
Evergreen, Colorado 80439 USA

303.670.8375
303.670.3750 (fax)

http://www.secureoutcomes.net for Product Info. 

Re: SCSI Controller Hanging...

[william degnan via cctalk]

On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 11:33 AM, Jack Harper via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
> Greetings to the List from the Snowy Rocky Mountains.
>
> Beautiful clear sunny day here at +9F :)
>
> The SCSI controller on the 68K development system (VMEbus) that I have
> cobbled together occasionally hangs after I reset one of the processor
> boards (there are four MVME177-005 68060 boards in the VME rack).
>
> The hang then happens when my software touches the SCSI drives via the
> ROM'd 68K/Bug I/O primitives and the hang will not go away even after
> another reset until I cycle power.
>
> I have never before dealt with SCSI as a programmer - does this sound like
> something is configured incorrectly?
>
> There is not much to configure.
>
> I point out that I am not certain that I have the termination resistors
> correct.
>
>
> Thoughts?
>
> I appreciate any advice.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jack
> Evergreen Colorado
>
>
>
Jack,
Yes, two things that I'd be checking
1) Make sure all drives are assigned a different number
2) Make sure you have termination somewhere.

Depending on the OS there are commands to display the scsi devices
attached, as the OS sees them.

Bill

SCSI Controller Hanging...

[Jack Harper via cctalk]

Greetings to the List from the Snowy Rocky Mountains.

Beautiful clear sunny day here at +9F :)

The SCSI controller on the 68K development system (VMEbus) that I 
have cobbled together occasionally hangs after I reset one of the 
processor boards (there are four MVME177-005 68060 boards in the VME rack).


The hang then happens when my software touches the SCSI drives via 
the ROM'd 68K/Bug I/O primitives and the hang will not go away even 
after another reset until I cycle power.


I have never before dealt with SCSI as a programmer - does this sound 
like something is configured incorrectly?


There is not much to configure.

I point out that I am not certain that I have the termination 
resistors correct.



Thoughts?

I appreciate any advice.


Regards,

Jack
Evergreen Colorado





--
Jack Harper, President
Secure Outcomes Inc
2942 Evergreen Parkway, Suite 300
Evergreen, Colorado 80439 USA

303.670.8375
303.670.3750 (fax)

http://www.secureoutcomes.net for Product Info.