Re: Announcing mkisofs 1.13

2010-03-03 Thread Peter Samuelson

[Robert Millan]
   In 2006, the cdrtools version of mkisofs spawned another fork:
   genisoimage, which was included as part of cdrkit package in the
   Debian GNU/Linux distribution.

I don't know if this is any use, but: my humble contributions to the
cdrkit project, past and future, may be distributed under the terms of
the GNU General Public License, version 2 or (at your option) any later
version.  The same for any non-humble contributions in the future.

I note that I do not have copyright assignment paperwork on file with
the FSF.  (Did Eric Youngdale or Yggdrasil Computing?)

In the cdrkit/debburn Subversion repository, my contributions are under
the usernames 'peters-guest' and 'peters'.

Peter Samuelson


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Re: GNU isofsmk (was: Re: Announcing mkisofs 1.13)

2010-01-25 Thread Joerg Schilling
Robert Millan r...@aybabtu.com wrote:

 On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 12:09:50AM +0100, Joerg Schilling wrote:
  If you really like to take the outdated mkisofs and play with it, I urge 
  you not to use the name mkisofs for this

 Next release will be renamed to GNU isofsmk to make sure users won't get
 confused.

You still confuse people by publishing a file called mkisofs-1.13.tar.gz that
does not match the checksum from the original at:

ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/cdrecord/mkisofs/old/mkisofs-1.13.tar.gz

Please remove this file from ftp.gnu.org.


  Note that your tar archive contains a file NEWS that makes incorrect 
  claims:
  
  -   The software you published does not support files = 4 GB
  
  The original mkisofs supports files  4 GB (implemented by me) 
  since 3.5 years.

 This claim isn't incorrect, but perhaps isn't clear enough:  It refers to a
 limit in the size of the filesystem image itself, rather than its content.

Mkisofs supports large files for the file system image since 9 years.
Claiming that you added this now does not look like a valid statement.

Jörg

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GNU isofsmk (was: Re: Announcing mkisofs 1.13)

2010-01-24 Thread Robert Millan

Hi,

On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 12:09:50AM +0100, Joerg Schilling wrote:
 If you really like to take the outdated mkisofs and play with it, I urge 
 you not to use the name mkisofs for this

Next release will be renamed to GNU isofsmk to make sure users won't get
confused.

 Note that your tar archive contains a file NEWS that makes incorrect claims:
 
 - The software you published does not support files = 4 GB
 
   The original mkisofs supports files  4 GB (implemented by me) 
   since 3.5 years.

This claim isn't incorrect, but perhaps isn't clear enough:  It refers to a
limit in the size of the filesystem image itself, rather than its content.

-- 
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Re: Announcing mkisofs 1.13

2010-01-10 Thread Thomas Schmitt
Hi,

  I will leech you for the final
  boot loader of the emerging libburnia OS farm.

 Be my guest.  You can also try grub-de...@gnu.org.

The OS installations tend to overwrite each
others bootloaders. Currently i am working on
the FreeBSD installation which seems to be the
first which did not hide the others. (Ubuntu
and SuSE rather fight over the MBR.)

When the farm is full and i get tired of booting
via rescue discs then i will have to learn how
to manage booting myself.


   - System area contains GRUB core.img image
   (GRUB's kernel plus a few modules like filesystem driver).

So one does not have to search for it.

 - core.img is instructed to search in /boot/grub/ for
   grub.cfg and other modules, etc.

Very convenient.


 So if you'd like to create a GRUB bootable disk, you'd do something
 like:
   cat boot.img core.img  tmp
  mkisofs --embedded-boot tmp -o grub.iso -r somedir

I would be interested to learn what mkisofs does
with tmp. Just copy it to the System Area ?
Or is there any info to be inserted that was
gained from the emerging ISO image ?

To what address shall the El Torito record
point ?
(With ISOLINUX we patch the boot image, create
 the El Torito record, and eventually copy a
 patched MBR.)


  i deem the architecture of separate ISO generator
  and burn program quite suboptimal.

 You don't like pipes?  What kind of Un*x hacker are you ;-)

Oh, it's not so much the pipe

  mkisofs -M ... -C $c_values ... | cdrecord dev=...

although the libisofs output fifo is better
adapted to the situation than a pipe.

It is rather the method to obtain the parameter
for -C 

  c_values=$(cdrecord dev=... -msinfo 2/dev/null)

and the way how it is applied blindly to
the device of the burn run. There is a lot of
room for mishaps with this architecture.

Not to forget the fundamental problem, that
mkisofs uses the Linux block device driver for
reading the -M device, whereas the burn programs
use the generic SCSI driver to write.
This is a peculiar mix which makes necessary the
drive tray ballet of growisofs. (Many systems
cannot read via block device what they just
wrote via generic.)

Here i deem the libisoburn architecture superior.
Under its control, libisofs uses libburn for
reading and for writing.
libburn does all its drive operations via the
generic SCSI interface. With our main write
of growing, reading and writing is guaranteed
to happen on the same media.
(We also have a media-to-media copy method
 modifying and the cdrtools method of
 blind growing with separates processes for
 reading and writing.)


Have a nice day :)

Thomas


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Re: Announcing mkisofs 1.13

2010-01-09 Thread Robert Millan
On Fri, Jan 08, 2010 at 11:49:33PM +0100, Thomas Schmitt wrote:
 Hi,
 
  * Support for creating large images ( 4 GiB).
 
 You are aware that even quite young Linux kernels
 have problems to read multi-extent files ?

I didn't know about this.  Thanks for noting it.

  * Support for El Torito without floppy emulation.
  (this is the default now; --eltorito-emul-floppy brings back the old
  behaviour)
 
 Do you have experience with El Torito pointing
 to something other than ISOLINUX ?

I happen to be maintainer of GNU GRUB, so yes ;-)

 (Nothing against ISOLINUX. I just wonder whether
  there are other El Torito bootable systems and
  how to bring them into an ISO image.)

GRUB supports booting from an ISO in three different ways:

  1- El Torito (for CD media)
  2- Traditional disk-based boot (for ISO in disk media)
  3- Multiboot (for coreboot+GRUB platforms, but may be used
 anywhere)

The third one is a legacy-free boot protocol based on the Multiboot
specification.  Basically, firmware loads a Multiboot image from the
ISO filesystem, and that image is capable of figuring out the disk in
which it was installed, then load the rest of stuff from it.

  * Support for embedding bootloader code for disk boot on PC/BIOS platforms
  (--embedded-boot option).
 
 Do you have specs for that ?
 libisofs does the isohybrid MBR trick of
 ISOLINUX but cannot install MBRs in general.
 (The question is about how one has to patch
  the boot image and/or the MBR after the block
  address of the boot image is determined.)

I don't understand your question.  First 32 kiBs are used to embed a chunk
of arbitrary data.  mkisofs is agnostic to its meaning, but from BIOS POV
this includes an MBR (first 512 bytes), which will usually load the remaining
32256 bytes, but that's really up to bootloader implementation (in the case
of GRUB, it loads the second sector which in turn loads the rest of core.img
based on its pre-encoded size, which in turn will search for /boot/grub/ in
the filesystem).

--protective-msdos-label option may be used to patch a protective MSDOS
label into the MBR.

 Do you have plans for UDF ?
 (Problem seems to develop a proper model of how
  the components of ECMA-167 form an UDF compliant
  graph that implements multi-session.)

I'm considering appliing for GSoC under the GNU umbrella this summer to get
UDF kicked out.  The ideal would be if someone who's got good understanding
of this standard will be interested in mentoring this project.

-- 
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Re: Announcing mkisofs 1.13

2010-01-09 Thread Mario Đanić

 Do you have plans for UDF ?
 (Problem seems to develop a proper model of how
  the components of ECMA-167 form an UDF compliant
  graph that implements multi-session.)

 I'm considering appliing for GSoC under the GNU umbrella this summer to get
 UDF kicked out.  The ideal would be if someone who's got good understanding
 of this standard will be interested in mentoring this project.

 --
 Robert Millan


While I really can't promise much this year, if I can be of any help
with this I will try. I don't have a thorough understanding of the UDF
standard, but know a bit or two about it because I studied it when I
wrote an enchantment ticket against new libisofs we were designing.

Also, I'd encourage working on UDF inside libisofs and eventual
genisofs (CLI-compatible mkisofs-alike tool based on libisofs, but
that's probably a long shot because you seem to want mkisofs :)

And after all this, thank you for all your work, valuable
contributions and insights.

Cheers,
Mario
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Re: Announcing mkisofs 1.13

2010-01-09 Thread Robert Millan
On Sat, Jan 09, 2010 at 09:26:33PM +0100, Mario Đanić wrote:
  I'm considering appliing for GSoC under the GNU umbrella this summer to get
  UDF kicked out.  The ideal would be if someone who's got good understanding
  of this standard will be interested in mentoring this project.
 
 While I really can't promise much this year, if I can be of any help
 with this I will try. I don't have a thorough understanding of the UDF
 standard, but know a bit or two about it because I studied it when I
 wrote an enchantment ticket against new libisofs we were designing.

Hi Mario!

Thanks for your offer, it's very kind of you.  I'm not sure if you've been
a mentor in GSoC before, but it's not a tough task IMO and you get a nice
tshirt! ;-)

 Also, I'd encourage working on UDF inside libisofs and eventual
 genisofs (CLI-compatible mkisofs-alike tool based on libisofs, but
 that's probably a long shot because you seem to want mkisofs :)

What is libisofs main purpose?  Is it meant to be used by filesystem code in
OS kernels, by some specific class of applications... ?

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Re: Announcing mkisofs 1.13

2010-01-09 Thread Mario Đanić
On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 21:55, Robert Millan r...@aybabtu.com wrote:
 On Sat, Jan 09, 2010 at 09:26:33PM +0100, Mario Đanić wrote:
  I'm considering appliing for GSoC under the GNU umbrella this summer to get
  UDF kicked out.  The ideal would be if someone who's got good understanding
  of this standard will be interested in mentoring this project.

 While I really can't promise much this year, if I can be of any help
 with this I will try. I don't have a thorough understanding of the UDF
 standard, but know a bit or two about it because I studied it when I
 wrote an enchantment ticket against new libisofs we were designing.

 Hi Mario!

 Thanks for your offer, it's very kind of you.  I'm not sure if you've been
 a mentor in GSoC before, but it's not a tough task IMO and you get a nice
 tshirt! ;-)

Both a mentor and a student, and an unofficial admin (reading all
applications, and ranking them *sigh*). Being part of the program is
very rewarding, and subsequently its a great privilege to work with a
great student.

 Also, I'd encourage working on UDF inside libisofs and eventual
 genisofs (CLI-compatible mkisofs-alike tool based on libisofs, but
 that's probably a long shot because you seem to want mkisofs :)

 What is libisofs main purpose?  Is it meant to be used by filesystem code in
 OS kernels, by some specific class of applications... ?

Lemme do some c/p:

libisofs is a library to create an ISO-9660 filesystem with extensions
like RockRidge or Joliet. It is also a full featured ISO-9660 editor,
allowing you to modify an ISO image or multisession disc, including
file addition/removal, change of file names and attributes, etc.

libisofs supports the extension AAIP which allows to store ACLs and
xattr in ISO-9660 filesystems. If linked with zlib then it supports
zisofs compression which is transparently uncompressed by some Linux
kernels. It is possible to have data file content compressed to gzip
format or to have it filtered by an external process.

So ummm, I'd say its supposed to be used for whatever fits the stated
purpose and feature-set? :)

Cheers,
Mario

 --
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Re: Announcing mkisofs 1.13

2010-01-09 Thread Thomas Schmitt
Hi,

 I happen to be maintainer of GNU GRUB, so yes ;-)

Nice incidence. I will leech you for the final
boot loader of the emerging libburnia OS farm.


  (The question is about how one has to patch
   the boot image and/or the MBR after the block
   address of the boot image is determined.)

 I don't understand your question.  First 32 kiBs are used to embed a chunk
 of arbitrary data.

The System Area as of ECMA-119. The first 512
bytes can be used as MBR. So depending on the
media the BIOS can either boot via the El Torito
block or via the MBR.

With ISOLINUX/isohybrid i have to tell the MBR
where the boot image isolinux.bin is located on
the media. The method and the MBR template stems
from 
  syslinux-3.72/utils/isohybrid
which operates on a El Torito enhanced ISO 9660
image in a disk file.
libisofs does this on-the-fly during image
generation, if desired by the application.


 The ideal would be if someone who's got good understanding
 of this standard will be interested in mentoring this project.

A person who understands ECMA-167.pdf and
udf260.pdf, and can sketch out a multi-session
layout for sequential media ... yes, that would
be ideal. :))


Mario wrote:
 genisofs

That one lies unprogrammed since only 3.5 years.
We'll have to wait a while until its decade of
hibernation is full. (I have escaped into xorriso
and am not to blame.)

(Also i build up the OS farm and am not to blame
 for not doing UDF in the next time.)


 What is libisofs main purpose?  Is it meant to be used by filesystem code in
 OS kernels, by some specific class of applications... ?

I see Mario answered already. Nevertheless
my two cents:

It shall be a complete ISO 9660 Rock Ridge
manipulator in userspace.
An alternative to the kernel for reading and
especially an opportunity for generating images.
Rock Ridge is quite essential for multi-session
because ISO 9660 namespace allows no decent
name mapping from a disk filesystem.
My personal goal is give it backup-grade
fidelity.

See the filesystem oriented capabilities of
  http://scdbackup.sourceforge.net/xorriso_eng.html

(genisofs would be our mkisofs emulator. But i
 deem the architecture of separate ISO generator
 and burn program quite suboptimal. So i rather
 started an integrated ISO+burn tool.)


Have a nice day :)

Thomas


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Re: Announcing mkisofs 1.13

2010-01-09 Thread Robert Millan
On Sat, Jan 09, 2010 at 10:27:20PM +0100, Mario Đanić wrote:
 
 Both a mentor and a student, and an unofficial admin (reading all
 applications, and ranking them *sigh*). Being part of the program is
 very rewarding, and subsequently its a great privilege to work with a
 great student.

:-)

 Lemme do some c/p:
 
 libisofs is a library to create an ISO-9660 filesystem with extensions
 like RockRidge or Joliet. It is also a full featured ISO-9660 editor,
 allowing you to modify an ISO image or multisession disc, including
 file addition/removal, change of file names and attributes, etc.
 
 libisofs supports the extension AAIP which allows to store ACLs and
 xattr in ISO-9660 filesystems. If linked with zlib then it supports
 zisofs compression which is transparently uncompressed by some Linux
 kernels. It is possible to have data file content compressed to gzip
 format or to have it filtered by an external process.

Thanks for the explanation.  Something to keep an eye on!

-- 
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Re: Announcing mkisofs 1.13

2010-01-09 Thread Joerg Schilling
Robert Millan r...@aybabtu.com wrote:

 On Fri, Jan 08, 2010 at 05:30:09PM +0100, Joerg Schilling wrote:
  
  You also do not mention that the even outdated version of mkisofs you are 
  using 
  contains code from me.

 This is true (at least for files prototyp.h, fctldefs.h, statdefs.h and
 mconfig.h where your name appears).  It's not my intention at all to
 neglect your contribution, it just happens that I didn't have all the
 information.

 If you're so kind to provide a short summary of your improvements in that
 version, I'll be glad to add your name in AUTHORS file and give proper
 recognition.

What is the reason for creating a fork from a completely outdated and extremely
buggy historic version of mkisofs?

Please note that I am constantly contributing to the mkisofs project since 
Spring 1996 and that the first mkisofs version published by Eric Youngdale 
with a contribution from me was mkisofs-1.10b7-no_ac from February 1997.
I remember that my first contribution (in Spring 1996) was the correction of 
the timezone offset and that e.g. the option -print-size is from me. As many
years have past since then, I of course cannot name _all_ contributions anymore.

Since Autumn 1999, I am the official primary maintainer and for this reason,
the mkisofs that comes with cdrtools is _no_ fork but the original version.
There was an official mkisofs-1.13 publishec in June 2000 and you obviously
created a clash.

If you really like to take the outdated mkisofs and play with it, I urge 
you not to use the name mkisofs for this and I urge you to withdraw your
tar archive from the ftp server as long as you use the original name mkisofs.

Note that your tar archive contains a file NEWS that makes incorrect claims:

-   The software you published does not support files = 4 GB

The original mkisofs supports files  4 GB (implemented by me) 
since 3.5 years.

-   The software you published contains an extremely outdated
Eltorito support. 

The original mkisofs supports nearly all Eltorito featues (implemented
by me) and this is what people today use to create bootable CDs (e.g. 
for GRUB).

If you believe that the current original mkisofs (see 
ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/cdrecord/alpha/) is missing important features, please
collaborate with the cdrtools project. The cdrtools project is open for everyone
and this is one of the reasons why cdrtools ports to  30 different platforms 
(not counting different CPUs as different platform).

From looking at your tar archive, it seems that you may have some skills with 
localization (text ranslations) or that you know translators. As the next 
development cycle of cdrtools will very soon introduce localized strings for 
all commands, I am looking for translators

So are you interested to contribute and to collaborate?

Jörg

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Re: Announcing mkisofs 1.13

2010-01-09 Thread Robert Millan
On Sat, Jan 09, 2010 at 11:03:39PM +0100, Thomas Schmitt wrote:
 Hi,
 
  I happen to be maintainer of GNU GRUB, so yes ;-)
 
 Nice incidence. I will leech you for the final
 boot loader of the emerging libburnia OS farm.

Be my guest.  You can also try grub-de...@gnu.org.

   (The question is about how one has to patch
the boot image and/or the MBR after the block
address of the boot image is determined.)
 
  I don't understand your question.  First 32 kiBs are used to embed a chunk
  of arbitrary data.
 
 The System Area as of ECMA-119. The first 512
 bytes can be used as MBR. So depending on the
 media the BIOS can either boot via the El Torito
 block or via the MBR.

Yeah, that'd be it.

 With ISOLINUX/isohybrid i have to tell the MBR
 where the boot image isolinux.bin is located on
 the media. The method and the MBR template stems
 from 
   syslinux-3.72/utils/isohybrid
 which operates on a El Torito enhanced ISO 9660
 image in a disk file.

Ah, I see.  Well, GRUB uses an entirely different approach:

  - System area contains GRUB core.img image
(GRUB's kernel plus a few modules like filesystem driver).

  - core.img is instructed to search in /boot/grub/ for
grub.cfg and other modules, etc.

So, it'd seem that unlike ISOLINUX, GRUB makes use of the whole
System area (well, not all of it, but close: just as much as occupied by
core.img).

So if you'd like to create a GRUB bootable disk, you'd do something
like:

  cat boot.img core.img  tmp
  mkisofs --embedded-boot tmp -o grub.iso -r somedir

Of course, if you put together all the details (like building core.img and
filling up /boot/grub structure), it gets a bit hairy, so grub-mkrescue utility
is provided with GRUB:

  grub-mkrescue --output=grub.iso [somedir]

which as of recent Bazaar produces images that are bootable as HD media.

 (genisofs would be our mkisofs emulator. But i
  deem the architecture of separate ISO generator
  and burn program quite suboptimal. So i rather
  started an integrated ISO+burn tool.)

You don't like pipes!?  What kind of Un*x hacker are you ;-)

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Re: Announcing mkisofs 1.13

2010-01-08 Thread Joerg Schilling
Robert Millan r...@aybabtu.com wrote:

 I'm proud to announce the release of GNU mkisofs version 1.13.

Could you please explain this?

Do you like to confuse people with outdated software?

This looks like complete nonsense. The official mkisofs is part of cdrtools
since a long time and the official mkisofs that is part of cdrtools has 
major enhancements compared to the completely outdated stuff you present!

Also note that there was an official mkisofs with version number 1.13 
that has been published on July 20th 2000.

 This release implements a few new features relative to the previous one
 (mkisofs 1.12b5).  But most importantly, the codebase has been updated
 to modern standards and the build system has been rewritten from scratch
 using recent GNU autotools.

1.12b5 was full of bugs. It seems that you like to fool people with buggy 
software. Well, your source does not even compile

 As this is the first release of GNU mkisofs in more than 10 years, some
 explanation is in order:

   This program was initially written for the GNU system in 1993, by Eric
   Youngdale, who maintained it up untill 1997.

   Shortly afterwards, a derivative of GNU mkisofs was incorporated into
   cdrtools, the CD/DVD recording package.  In 2006, the cdrtools version of
   mkisofs spawned another fork: genisoimage, which was included as part of
   cdrkit package in the Debian GNU/Linux distribution.

You are wrong! The mkisofs in cdrtools is _not_ a fork but the official release.

You also do not mention that the even outdated version of mkisofs you are using 
contains code from me.

If you really like to start a project on completely outdated sources, use a 
different name!

Jörg

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Re: Announcing mkisofs 1.13

2010-01-08 Thread Til Schubbe
* On 08.01. Joerg Schilling muttered:

 Well, your source does not even compile

At least it compiles on my machine.

Regards
Til


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Re: Announcing mkisofs 1.13

2010-01-08 Thread Joerg Schilling
Til Schubbe li...@lists.schubbe.org wrote:

  Well, your source does not even compile

 At least it compiles on my machine.

Nobody is interested in software from 1997 and with only the features from 1997.

Jörg

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Re: Announcing mkisofs 1.13

2010-01-08 Thread Thomas Schmitt
Hi,

 I'm proud to announce the release of GNU mkisofs version 1.13.

Wow. That is kindof a blast from the past.


 bringing it to up-to-date standards, as
 well as implementing some unique features that are necessary for GRUB,
 the GNU bootloader.

Would you be interested in cooperating with
the libburnia project ? (Exchanging knowledge,
sharing extension features, ...)

up-to-date standards ... would that mean UDF ?


Have a nice day :)

Thomas


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Re: Announcing mkisofs 1.13

2010-01-08 Thread Robert Millan

Hi,

On Fri, Jan 08, 2010 at 05:30:09PM +0100, Joerg Schilling wrote:
 
 You also do not mention that the even outdated version of mkisofs you are 
 using 
 contains code from me.

This is true (at least for files prototyp.h, fctldefs.h, statdefs.h and
mconfig.h where your name appears).  It's not my intention at all to
neglect your contribution, it just happens that I didn't have all the
information.

If you're so kind to provide a short summary of your improvements in that
version, I'll be glad to add your name in AUTHORS file and give proper
recognition.

-- 
Robert Millan

  Be the change you want to see in the world -- Gandhi


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Re: Announcing mkisofs 1.13

2010-01-08 Thread Robert Millan
On Fri, Jan 08, 2010 at 08:24:10PM +0100, Thomas Schmitt wrote:
  bringing it to up-to-date standards, as
  well as implementing some unique features that are necessary for GRUB,
  the GNU bootloader.
 
 Would you be interested in cooperating with
 the libburnia project ? (Exchanging knowledge,
 sharing extension features, ...)

Of course.  I'm open to collaboration with all the interested parties,
including libburnia, cdrkit and cdrtools.

 up-to-date standards ... would that mean UDF ?

Silly me, I think I forgot to attach the NEWS file!  This basically referred
to items 2 and 3, see attachment.

-- 
Robert Millan

  Be the change you want to see in the world -- Gandhi
New in 1.13:

* Lots of miscellaneous cleanup.

* Support for creating large images ( 4 GiB).

* Support for El Torito without floppy emulation.
(this is the default now; --eltorito-emul-floppy brings back the old
behaviour)

* Support for localization of user messages.

* Support for embedding bootloader code for disk boot on PC/BIOS platforms
(--embedded-boot option).


Re: Announcing mkisofs 1.13

2010-01-08 Thread Thomas Schmitt
Hi,

 * Support for creating large images ( 4 GiB).

You are aware that even quite young Linux kernels
have problems to read multi-extent files ?
My 2.6.18 swallows the last few bytes if the file
size is not a multiple of 2048.
(libisofs can dare to produce such files without
 warning because itself is able to extract them
 out of ISO images, if the kernel cannot.)


 * Support for El Torito without floppy emulation.
 (this is the default now; --eltorito-emul-floppy brings back the old
 behaviour)

Do you have experience with El Torito pointing
to something other than ISOLINUX ?
(Nothing against ISOLINUX. I just wonder whether
 there are other El Torito bootable systems and
 how to bring them into an ISO image.)


 * Support for embedding bootloader code for disk boot on PC/BIOS platforms
 (--embedded-boot option).

Do you have specs for that ?
libisofs does the isohybrid MBR trick of
ISOLINUX but cannot install MBRs in general.
(The question is about how one has to patch
 the boot image and/or the MBR after the block
 address of the boot image is determined.)


Oh well, i hoped for allies in a session oriented
UDF endeavor. Proper multi-session, so that not
can happen what happened to the backup of Zhang
Weiwu. (First session UDF+ISO, second ISO, mount
gets confused.)

Do you have plans for UDF ?
(Problem seems to develop a proper model of how
 the components of ECMA-167 form an UDF compliant
 graph that implements multi-session.)


Have a nice day :)

Thomas


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