[CentOS-virt] Reading the new 6.0 manual - now questions
I'm new to running VMs, so I'm hoping this hasn't been a problem question asked before. I've only glazed over the emails from this list since I've joined due to not really needing all of the great information if provides. Eric suggested I wait for Centos 6 to start loading my new VM host, and so I grabbed the RH Virtualization PDF and started digging in. Firstly, it occurred to me that Centos 6 might not provide the virtualization rpms like it did with Centos 5. RH makes this an add-on to their license. Does anyone know if the upcoming Centos 6 will provide the virtualization packages (right away or in the future)? Secondly, I'm not sure I understand the CPU allocation stuff. If I have 6 cores, it appears I can only create VMs that use 6 cores total. Using the GUI for creating a new VM will provide me with a max number I can allocate. Does this mean that I can allocate, for example, 3 VMs that use 2 cores each and never be able to create any other new VMs or does this mean I can create as many VMs as I want but only start VMs that use the max total cores or less? I should get my shiny new machine next week, the one with real virtualization capability, so some of this may be answered on my own by playing around, but until then, thought I'd get a head start on rectifying my stupidity. Thanks for any help (along with a special thanks to Eric for his original help). steve campbell ___ CentOS-virt mailing list CentOS-virt@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-virt
Re: [CentOS-virt] Reading the new 6.0 manual - now questions
Hi Steve, Le 17/06/2011 17:22, Steve Campbell a écrit : Firstly, it occurred to me that Centos 6 might not provide the virtualization rpms like it did with Centos 5. RH makes this an add-on to their license. Does anyone know if the upcoming Centos 6 will provide the virtualization packages (right away or in the future)? I installed SL 6.0 on one of my machines, and indeed it provides KVM (Description in French): # yum groupinfo virtualization Loaded plugins: refresh-packagekit Setting up Group Process epel/group_gz | 201 kB 00:00 Group: Virtualisation Description: Fournit un environnement afin d'héberger des clients virtuels. Mandatory Packages: qemu-kvm Optional Packages: qemu-kvm-tools I think CentOS will do the same for 6.0. Secondly, I'm not sure I understand the CPU allocation stuff. If I have 6 cores, it appears I can only create VMs that use 6 cores total. Using the GUI for creating a new VM will provide me with a max number I can allocate. Does this mean that I can allocate, for example, 3 VMs that use 2 cores each and never be able to create any other new VMs or does this mean I can create as many VMs as I want but only start VMs that use the max total cores or less? You can assign multiple VMs to one CPU. For example, you can have a hostmachine with dual-CPUs quadcore, and have 15 VMs or more installed on it, and some of them assigned with two cores or more. It is only more threads on a core. Alain -- == Alain Péan - LPP/CNRS Administrateur Système/Réseau Laboratoire de Physique des Plasmas - UMR 7648 Observatoire de Saint-Maur 4, av de Neptune, Bat. A 94100 Saint-Maur des Fossés Tel : 01-45-11-42-39 - Fax : 01-48-89-44-33 == ___ CentOS-virt mailing list CentOS-virt@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-virt
Re: [CentOS-virt] Reading the new 6.0 manual - now questions
Greetings, - Original Message - RH makes this an add-on to their license. Does anyone know if the upcoming Centos 6 will provide the virtualization packages (right away or in the future)? Just to clarify... Red Hat's virtualization entitlement is for management/support from RHN. The way they sell RHEL... you can have 1 VM, 4 VMs or unlimited VMs. When I say VMs there I mean supported RHN subscribed RHEL installs where you register them with RHN and they get updates like any RHEL box would. So you are affectively getting 2, 5 or unlimited RHEL update entitlements. This is done by installing an additional package or two in the RHEL VM, and registering it with RHN so it knows it is a VM and RHN knows which physical host it is associated with. If you want to run any number of virtual non-RHEL OSes, go for it. They are not accounted for. The only thing accounted for are RHN subscriptions by physical or virtual machines. It isn't like virt-manager phones home... it does not. None of that entitlement stuff applies to the free RHEL clones so it isn't an issue. Secondly, I'm not sure I understand the CPU allocation stuff. If I have 6 cores, it appears I can only create VMs that use 6 cores total. It is my understanding that you can allocate basically all of the vcpus you want... the only rule though is that you can't assign more vcpus to a single VM than you have physical cpus as the OS sees them. So if you have two quad-core CPUs and they can do multiple threads per core... just look at /proc/cpuinfo to see how many cpus are listed there. It is probably the total number of threads times the total number of cores per CPU times the number of CPUs. You can't go over that number of vcpus in a single VM. So if /proc/cpuinfo on the physical host shows 16 CPUs you could make x number of VMs with 16 or less vcpus each. It doesn't matter what the total number is across VMs. From a performance stand point some might want to allocate only as many vcpus as they have physical cores or cpus and then pin them so they get a 1-to-1 allocation... but for most folks, as long as their hardware isn't bogged down too much, it is a freeforall.:) That's my understanding anyway. TYL, -- Scott Dowdle 704 Church Street Belgrade, MT 59714 (406)388-0827 [home] (406)994-3931 [work] ___ CentOS-virt mailing list CentOS-virt@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-virt
Re: [CentOS-es] Problemas con la sincronización de discos en Centos metodo software
Eduardo, Haber por pasos, primero de todo te mando las configuraciones que tú me has pedido: mdadm --detail /dev/md0 Version: 0.90 Creation Time: Fri Jun 10 12:23:07 2011 Raid Level: raid1 Array Size: 104320 Used Dev Size: 104320 Raid Devices: 2 Total Devices: 2 Preferred Minor: 0 Persistence: Superblock is persistent Update Time: Thu Jun 16 12:55:39 2011 State: clean Active Devices: 2 Working Devices: 2 Failed Devices: 0 Spare Devices: 0 Number Major Minor RaidDevices State 0 8 1 0 active sync /dev/sda1 1 8 17 1 active sync /dev/sdb1 mdadm --detail /dev/md1 Version: 0.90 Creation Time: Fri Jun 10 12:22:34 2011 Raid Level: raid1 Array Size: 35808768 Used Dev Size: 35808768 Raid Devices: 2 Total Devices: 2 Preferred Minor: 1 Persistence: Superblock is persistent Update Time: Fri Jun 17 08:52:40 2011 State: clean Active Devices: 2 Working Devices: 2 Failed Devices: 0 Spare Devices: 0 Number Major Minor RaidDevice State 0 8 2 0 active sync /dev/sda2 1 8 18 1 active sync /dev/sdb2 La última parte ya te la contesté en el correo de ayer, se me desincronizaron los discos porque quise hacer una serie de pruebas desconectando los discos con la máquina apagada, y al volver a arrancar y mirar la configuración ya los tenia desincronizados. Entonces ahora mis preguntas más importantes son si las sabes, una vez ya los tengo sincronizados: 1) Si yo quiero hacer una prueba de sincronización para comprobar su correcto funcionamiento, que método y pasos tengo que seguir para hacer dicha prueba. (Teniendo en cuenta que ambos discos están bien, porque solo es una prueba). 2) Si un día por ejemplo un discos de los dos que tengo por cualquier causa FALLA, lo normal es que el ordenador no arranque, y si arranca con el puesto que ni me lo detecte, ya que estaría como no operativo. Que tendría que hacer yo, para poder quitar ese disco dañado y que tendría que hacer para poner otro disco y que coja la información del disco que funciona y le coja todos los datos para que estén perfectamente sincronizados? Sé que estoy siendo un poco pesado, pero me encanta el tema y me estas ayudando mucho y muy bien, por lo que te lo agradezco mucho. Un saludo! -Mensaje original- De: centos-es-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-es-boun...@centos.org] En nombre de Eduardo Grosclaude Enviado el: jueves, 16 de junio de 2011 14:00 Para: centos-es@centos.org Asunto: Re: [CentOS-es]Problemas con la sincronización de discos en Centos metodo software 2011/6/16 Oriol Borràs obor...@jsf.es: Eduardo muy buenas! Te acabo de enviar un correo, però te explico gracias a los pasos que me mandaste el primer dia he conseguido lo siguiente: Te mando el cat /proc/mdstat Personalities: [raid1] Md0: active raid1 sdb1[1] sda1[0] 104320 blocks [2/2] [UU] Md1: active raid1 sdb2[1] sda2[0] 35808768 blocks [2/2] [UU] Unused devices: none Ahora ambos discos me aparecen como [UU], ahora estan sincronizados? Como puedo comprobar-lo? Esque he leido por internet (però no se si es verdad o no), que si lo hago mediante software (que es como lo estoy haciendo) antes de quitar el disco hay que hacer una serie de pasos como marcar como fallido el disco a sacar, ya que si lo desconectas a saco te cargas el metodo de sincronizacion. Tu sabes como va el tema exactamente? Ahora mismo los tengo sincronizados? Que pasos tengo que hacer para hacer pruebas? Ah, pero excelente! Justamente te estaba respondiendo tu mensaje anterior, no había visto éste. Por lo visto has dejado ambos dispositivos OK, porque dos UU quieren decir que los dos miembros de cada RAID están UP (encendidas). Seguramente has usado el comando --re-add? Para salir de dudas, lanza de nuevo los comandos: mdadm --detail /dev/md0 mdadm --detail /dev/md1 y debemos ver claves como que Active devices = 2 para ambos dispositivos RAID, y que ambas unidades de cada RAID están active sync. Muchas gracias genio! Felicitaciones a ti, te has desempantanado solo! Lo que faltaría para coronar el postre sería averiguar qué ocurrió para que ese disco saliera del conjunto RAID. Tú lo has desconectado adrede? En alguna ocasión me pasó esto pero finalmente no pude saber por qué. Creo que un cable SATA mal ajustado se salió de lugar y se desconectó el disco, pero no pude confirmarlo. Un gran saludo -- Eduardo Grosclaude Universidad Nacional del Comahue Neuquen, Argentina ___ CentOS-es mailing list CentOS-es@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-es ___ CentOS-es mailing list CentOS-es@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-es
[CentOS-es] Sincronizacion de discos
Muy Buenas! Os mando la configuración de mis dos discos, ya sincronizados, haber si alguien me puede contestar las dos preguntas que tengo, y detallármelas un poco, Gracias. mdadm --detail /dev/md0 Version: 0.90 Creation Time: Fri Jun 10 12:23:07 2011 Raid Level: raid1 Array Size: 104320 Used Dev Size: 104320 Raid Devices: 2 Total Devices: 2 Preferred Minor: 0 Persistence: Superblock is persistent Update Time: Thu Jun 16 12:55:39 2011 State: clean Active Devices: 2 Working Devices: 2 Failed Devices: 0 Spare Devices: 0 Number Major Minor RaidDevices State 0 8 1 0 active sync /dev/sda1 1 8 171 active sync /dev/sdb1 mdadm --detail /dev/md1 Version: 0.90 Creation Time: Fri Jun 10 12:22:34 2011 Raid Level: raid1 Array Size: 35808768 Used Dev Size: 35808768 Raid Devices: 2 Total Devices: 2 Preferred Minor: 1 Persistence: Superblock is persistent Update Time: Fri Jun 17 08:52:40 2011 State: clean Active Devices: 2 Working Devices: 2 Failed Devices: 0 Spare Devices: 0 Number Major Minor RaidDevice State 0 8 2 0 active sync /dev/sda2 1 8 181 active sync /dev/sdb2 La última parte ya te la contesté en el correo de ayer, se me desincronizaron los discos porque quise hacer una serie de pruebas desconectando los discos con la máquina apagada, y al volver a arrancar y mirar la configuración ya los tenia desincronizados. Entonces ahora mis preguntas más importantes son si las sabes, una vez ya los tengo sincronizados: 1) Si yo quiero hacer una prueba de sincronización para comprobar su correcto funcionamiento, que método y pasos tengo que seguir para hacer dicha prueba. (Teniendo en cuenta que ambos discos están bien, porque solo es una prueba). 2) Si un día por ejemplo un discos de los dos que tengo por cualquier causa FALLA, lo normal es que el ordenador no arranque, y si arranca con el puesto que ni me lo detecte, ya que estaría como no operativo. Que tendría que hacer yo, para poder quitar ese disco dañado y que tendría que hacer para poner otro disco y que coja la información del disco que funciona y le coja todos los datos para que estén perfectamente sincronizados? Un saludo! Oriol Borrás Dalmacio JSF Software, S.L. http://www.jsf.cat http://www.jsf.cat/ Sant Antoni Mª Claret, 484-486 Desp. 1º A 08027 Barcelona Tel. 93-349.08.06 Fax 93-340.37.82 ___ CentOS-es mailing list CentOS-es@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-es
Re: [CentOS-es] Problemas con la sincronización de discos en Centos metodo software
2011/6/17 Oriol Borràs obor...@jsf.es: mdadm --detail /dev/md0 Update Time: Thu Jun 16 12:55:39 2011 State: clean Active Devices: 2 Working Devices: 2 Failed Devices: 0 Spare Devices: 0 Number Major Minor RaidDevices State 0 8 1 0 active sync /dev/sda1 1 8 17 1 active sync /dev/sdb1 Bien, aquí aparecen las claves que buscábamos: State: clean, Working Devices=2, ambos dispositivos active sync. Con el otro conjunto RAID igual. Todo está funcionando bien. 1) Si yo quiero hacer una prueba de sincronización para comprobar su correcto funcionamiento, que método y pasos tengo que seguir para hacer dicha prueba. (Teniendo en cuenta que ambos discos están bien, porque solo es una prueba). 2) Si un día por ejemplo un discos de los dos que tengo por cualquier causa FALLA, lo normal es que el ordenador no arranque, y si arranca con el puesto que ni me lo detecte, ya que estaría como no operativo. Que tendría que hacer yo, para poder quitar ese disco dañado y que tendría que hacer para poner otro disco y que coja la información del disco que funciona y le coja todos los datos para que estén perfectamente sincronizados? Respecto de la pregunta 2, no es así, precisamente queremos RAID 1 por redundancia para que en caso de que UNO de los dos falle, el sistema tolere ese fallo. El sistema puede arrancar con el RAID en modo degradado (con uno solo funcionando). Lo que sí hace falta es propagar la información de GRUB al disco secundario para que cualquiera sea el disco que falle, la información de booteo esté acesible. Esto debería hacerlo Anaconda sin chistar, pero por alguna razón siempre me ha tocado hacerlo a mano. Cuando falle el secundario, esa información de booteo estará donde siempre. Pero si falla el primario, necesitamos que la fase 1 de GRUB esté también en el secundario, que ahora se verá como primario porque ha salido de línea. Siguiendo unos pasos con la consola del GRUB, le haces creer que el disco primario es tu secundario y lo reinstalas. Para revisar este proceso (y para aclarar la pregunta 1) sugiero ir a las fuentes: http://raid.wiki.kernel.org (aquí está la información mantenida, los HOWTOs que andan por fuera de este sitio están desactualizados) o http://docs.redhat.com/docs/es-ES/index.html Un saludo -- Eduardo Grosclaude Universidad Nacional del Comahue Neuquen, Argentina ___ CentOS-es mailing list CentOS-es@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-es
Re: [CentOS] Config file semantics.
Brian T Brunner wrote:. [Snipped] In .vimrc :set sw=4 :set ai In .bashrc alias diff='diff -bw' Personally I like: alias diff='diff -bBiw' YMMV Toodles, Roy ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
[CentOS] athentication service
---BeginMessage--- ---BeginMessage--- Hi, there I'm new in Cent-OS.I installed pptpd as a VPN service and now i need a simple application that can be my authentication server with some basic abilities like account expiration period, account timing and so on. I did some Google search and find freeradius but it was too complicated for me to setup and use it.please help me to find a way to do that. regards all. nabi ---End Message--- ---End Message--- ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS-6 Status updates
On 16 June 2011 01:20, R P Herrold herr...@owlriver.com wrote: On Wed, 15 Jun 2011, Gordon Messmer wrote: Nothing that Red Hat did has increased the burden on CentOS. so says the person who has not done it - the rpm tool changed, adding a non-backward compatible compression scheme. as I blogged about months ago; this has 'flow through' effects as to bootstrapping a new builder - the anaconda changes, re-design as to install stages, sever deprecation of TUI installs, unfixed graphics driver issues, and install time anaconda 'seeks' across the wire to remote network content introduced addotional complexity to an already ever-changing and at best, spaghetti like pile of Python puke, as I've already noted on this and the -devel mailing list Yeah the bugzilla report of the hard crash on initialisation of X during install of the 64bit betas of RHEL6 on my dell e4200 were closed with the status of feature request. At the time i tested with fedora 12 / fedora 13 and the 32 bit beta all of which were fine. Maybe RHEL7 will be more polished out the gate mike ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] athentication service
On Jun 17, 2011, at 8:32 AM, nabi wrote: From: nabi n...@netadmin.ir Date: June 17, 2011 7:59:54 AM CDT To: centos@centos.org Subject: [Fwd: athentication service] Reply-To: n...@netadmin.ir From: nabi n...@netadmin.ir Date: June 17, 2011 5:57:17 AM CDT To: centos-de...@centos.org Subject: athentication service Reply-To: n...@netadmin.ir Hi, there I'm new in Cent-OS.I installed pptpd as a VPN service and now i need a simple application that can be my authentication server with some basic abilities like account expiration period, account timing and so on. I did some Google search and find freeradius but it was too complicated for me to setup and use it.please help me to find a way to do that. regards all. nabi ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos How about a LDAP server? You can use open-ldap or perhaps freeipa. Check em out. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Config file semantics.
--On Wednesday, June 15, 2011 02:52:22 PM -0700 Keith Keller kkel...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us wrote: I am constantly frustrated by being limited to a whole number of spaces. What if I want pi spaces? Or e*i? I would like to introduce other space operators as well. For example, we could use d(space)/dt to not only have spaces in our config file, but indicate how quickly we typed them. Imagine the possibilities: - Do you want your whitespace to also indicate the number of configuration parameters? There's a lim(sigma(space) sub (w-infinity)) for that - Tired of typing all those spaces? Just use M-x dirac-delta-space and you're done. (Mind you, it removes all other spaces from all other config files on your system and puts them into the current file, so you might have to be careful when invoking it.) - How about bra and ket space operators for those days when you're not sure if you want spaces or not, and want to defer the answer until someone reads the file? (Devin wanders off to code up the lisp for emacs' M-x laplacian-space-mode ...) ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Config file semantics.
Devin Reade wrote: --On Wednesday, June 15, 2011 02:52:22 PM -0700 Keith Keller kkel...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us wrote: I am constantly frustrated by being limited to a whole number of spaces. What if I want pi spaces? Or e*i? I would like to introduce other space operators as well. For example, we could use d(space)/dt to not only have spaces in our config file, but indicate how quickly we typed them. Imagine the possibilities: - Do you want your whitespace to also indicate the number of configuration parameters? There's a lim(sigma(space) sub (w-infinity)) for that - Tired of typing all those spaces? Just use M-x dirac-delta-space and you're done. (Mind you, it removes all other spaces from all snip Minkowski space? mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Config file semantics.
--On Friday, June 17, 2011 02:27:22 PM -0400 m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: Minkowski space? Sure. I'll implement M-x minkowski-space-mode as soon as I get 'elsewhere' (in Minkowski terms, that is). Devin ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Config file semantics.
Devin Reade wrote: --On Friday, June 17, 2011 02:27:22 PM -0400 m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: Minkowski space? Sure. I'll implement M-x minkowski-space-mode as soon as I get 'elsewhere' (in Minkowski terms, that is). You're sure that's not a vim option? mark Kirk: Warp 5, Scotty! Scotty: We're shovelin' as fast as we can, captain! Goddamn dnsorbs! Two bounces ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
[CentOS] non-fluff: NIC configuration: mingnt?
We've got this really bizarre problem, trying to get a bridge/firewall working. My manager and I are almost grasping at straws Anyway, I'm using lshw to look at an identical machine, and a Dell 1950 that works when configured as a bridge, and there's one thing I don't know: does anyone know what mingnt is? Thanks. mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Config file semantics.
On 6/17/2011 2:02 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: Devin Reade wrote: --On Friday, June 17, 2011 02:27:22 PM -0400 m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: Minkowski space? Sure. I'll implement M-x minkowski-space-mode as soon as I get 'elsewhere' (in Minkowski terms, that is). You're sure that's not a vim option? No, only emacs has commands like Meta-X psychoanalyze-pinhead. Seriously - that's a real command installed on millions of computers for decades. Try it. -- Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] non-fluff: NIC configuration: mingnt?
m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: We've got this really bizarre problem, trying to get a bridge/firewall working. My manager and I are almost grasping at straws Anyway, I'm using lshw to look at an identical machine, and a Dell 1950 that works when configured as a bridge, and there's one thing I don't know: does anyone know what mingnt is? MIN_GNT and MAX_LAT These read-only byte registers are used to specify the device's desired settings for Latency Timer values. For both registers, the value specifies a period of time in units of 1/4 microsecond. Values of 0 indicate that the device has no major requirements for the settings of Latency Timers. MIN_GNT is used for specifying how long a burst period the device needs assuming a clock rate of 33MHz. MAX_LAT is used for specifying how often the device needs to gain access to the PCI bus. Devices should specify values that will allow them to most effectively use the PCI bus as well as their internal resources. Values should be chosen assuming that the target does not insert any wait states. From: http://www.reric.net/linux/pci_latency.html Ljubomir ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Config file semantics.
Les Mikesell wrote: On 6/17/2011 2:02 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: Devin Reade wrote: --On Friday, June 17, 2011 02:27:22 PM -0400 m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: Minkowski space? Sure. I'll implement M-x minkowski-space-mode as soon as I get 'elsewhere' (in Minkowski terms, that is). You're sure that's not a vim option? No, only emacs has commands like Meta-X psychoanalyze-pinhead. Seriously - that's a real command installed on millions of computers for decades. Try it. I know how to get in, and out, of emacs. Did you see yesterday's XKCD? But... plaease don't tell me that emacs comes with eliza mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Config file semantics.
On 6/17/2011 2:36 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: Les Mikesell wrote: On 6/17/2011 2:02 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: Devin Reade wrote: --On Friday, June 17, 2011 02:27:22 PM -0400 m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: Minkowski space? Sure. I'll implement M-x minkowski-space-mode as soon as I get 'elsewhere' (in Minkowski terms, that is). You're sure that's not a vim option? No, only emacs has commands like Meta-X psychoanalyze-pinhead. Seriously - that's a real command installed on millions of computers for decades. Try it. I know how to get in, and out, of emacs. Did you see yesterday's XKCD? No, but that is funny. But... plaease don't tell me that emacs comes with eliza Yes - and then some. You need something to waste those cycles that you save by running awk instead of perl. -- Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
