Re: [CentOS-docs] CentOS wiki self-introduction: BenCotton

[Akemi Yagi]

On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 10:45 AM Akemi Yagi  wrote:
>
> On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 6:56 AM Ben Cotton  wrote:
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > I'd like to request access to edit the CentOS wiki. I am requesting
> > access so that I can add and maintain an FAQ page for CentOS Stream.
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > BC
> >
> > --
> > Ben Cotton
> > He / Him / His
> > Senior Program Manager, Fedora & CentOS Stream
> > Red Hat
> > TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis
>
> I assume your wiki username is BenCotton. You should have edit access to:
>
> https://wiki.centos.org/FAQ
>
> Please let us know if you find any issue.
>
> Thank you,
> Akemi

Hi Ben,

Sorry for not having asked this earlier but could you edit your wiki
homepage now that CentOS Stream is a hot subject?

https://wiki.centos.org/BenCotton

Thank you,
Akemi
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Re: [CentOS-es] CentOS rip?

[walter]

Oracle publico un script de migración de CentOS a Oracle Linux


https://readyforlinux.com/oracle-publico-un-script-de-migracion-de-centos-a-oracle-linux/?fbclid=IwAR2jOUnTKmQsoh9v4TsZZnXYlOSwS8nLi7LpwQOmM2RmJloJfGRdzmggleg

Henry Rosado:

Solo me pregunto uno de los creadores de éste sistema mail que fue EPE,
como ve ésto, el era un fuerte en CentOS, aparte, que otra alternativa se
podría tomar y de paso, los servidores que están en producción, tocará
migrar a otros como Debian o ubuntu server?

El dom., 13 dic. 2020 9:14, orkcu via CentOS-es 
escribió:


El problema connlos projectos de rebuild es el mantenimiento a largo
plazo, año tras año, servers, connectivity, etcEl creador de CAOS, mas
tarde renombrado CentOS se cansó en un momento, y fue una crisis fuerte
para el projecto, pues él tenia el control de todo y estaba cansado pero le
era dificil pasar el baton a los que estaban dispuestos a seguir la
carrera.Tambien parece que se ha olvidado cual fue la razon de la
existencia de los clones de RHEL RedHat decidio terminar con RHL.CU
 Original message From: "Alex (Servtelecom) via CentOS-es"
 Date: 2020-12-11  11:09 a.m.  (GMT-05:00) To:
orkcu via CentOS-es  Subject: Re: [CentOS-es]
CentOS rip? si, centos como lo conocemos esta muerto, ahora sera como un
fedora  un banco de pruebas para RedHatpero el creador de CentOS ha creado
un fork llamado Rocky Linux que en poco tiempo estará en producciónEn 11
dic. 2020 17:06, en 17:06, "David González Romero" 
escribió:>Alguien sabe de 
esto>>https://centos.rip/>>Saludos,>David>___>CentOS-es
mailing list>CentOS-es@centos.org>
https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-es___CentOS-es
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lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-es
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Re: [CentOS] I'm looking forward to the future of CentOS Stream

[Scott Robbins]

On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 11:11:58PM +0200, Nikolaos Milas wrote:
> On 13/12/2020 9:44 μ.μ., Simon Avery wrote:
> 
> > There are 4,606 people on their Slack right now
> 
> ...which, by the way, is being acquired by SalesForce!
> 
> Find a successor of Slack! 

OT excuse to rant, because I get so mad at this.

Remember when slack first came out, and said, Oh, we're gonna be compatible
with your irc stuff.  At that point, you could use it with irssi and
weechat. Then they changed it, you could still sorta use it with irssi, but
it was cumbersome. Thank goodness, someone made a plugin to work for
weechat which still works at the moment, though, as they've done something
to tokens, it's harder than it used to be, and no doubt, they'll eventually
eliminate it so that you have to use the slow, high resource, web app. 

Talk about embrace, engulf, extinguish, they are a role model for it.

OK, sorry. But, I feel so much better now.

-- 
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Re: [CentOS] I'm looking forward to the future of CentOS Stream

[Jack Bailey via CentOS]

I'm just trying to determine whether you were making the argument you 
intended to, because you are literally suggesting that the majority is 
silent, and the people who are silent are the ones that are happy with 
something.


Silence doesn't confer anything. People can be displeased, cautiously 
optimistic, and silent, all at the same time.


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Re: [CentOS] I'm looking forward to the future of CentOS Stream

[Gordon Messmer]

On 12/13/20 1:32 PM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote:

On 12/13/20 8:56 PM, Gordon Messmer wrote:

On 12/13/20 2:45 AM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote:

When people are happy with something they do not voice their content on
the mailing list, mailing list is only to voice your discontent. You
heard about "silent majority", right? Ever though why it is called that?

So, the majority of users are silent, because they're happy? Cool.

HAHAHAHAHA, what a wonderful imaginary world you live in:-D



I'm just trying to determine whether you were making the argument you 
intended to, because you are literally suggesting that the majority is 
silent, and the people who are silent are the ones that are happy with 
something.


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Re: [CentOS] I'm looking forward to the future of CentOS Stream

[John R. Dennison]

On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 10:06:50PM +, Simon Avery wrote:
>
> Can't say I'm really appreciating the trolling in this list.

It's to be expected.  What I find surprising is the shilling for RH and
this decision that I am seeing.  Oh well, such is life.


-- 
Seek not to follow in the footsteps of men of old; seek what they sought.

-- Matsu Basho (1644-1694), Japanese poet, from "Words by a Brushwood Gate"


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Re: [CentOS] I'm looking forward to the future of CentOS Stream

[Simon Avery]

On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 19:56, Gordon Messmer 
wrote:

> So, the majority of users are silent, because they're happy? Cool.
>

Can't say I'm really appreciating the trolling in this list.
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Re: [CentOS] I'm looking forward to the future of CentOS Stream

[Ljubomir Ljubojevic]

On 12/13/20 8:56 PM, Gordon Messmer wrote:
> On 12/13/20 2:45 AM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote:
>> When people are happy with something they do not voice their content on
>> the mailing list, mailing list is only to voice your discontent. You
>> heard about "silent majority", right? Ever though why it is called that?
> 
> 
> So, the majority of users are silent, because they're happy? Cool.

HAHAHAHAHA, what a wonderful imaginary world you live in :-D
530 negative commends on the blog, 7.800 signed the petition, 100+
negative mails on the CentOS mailing list, and at least 200 negative
comments only in CentOS Facebook group, not counting comments in other
20-30 groups.

So yeah, lets go with only 5 complainers :-D

So long, there is nothing more to be said on this topic, except that I
will be soon leaving Facebook group admin team.


> 
> 
>> Point is that RH DID slow down build of clones due to this change
>>
> 
> Your memory is still rusty.  Early accusations were that this would
> impact developers (such as Oracle) who were adding additional patches to
> the kernel, or other maintenance.  It never impacted "clones" like
> CentOS at all.
> 
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-- 
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(Love is in the Air)
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Re: [CentOS] I'm looking forward to the future of CentOS Stream

[Orion Poplawski]

On 12/13/20 1:25 PM, Dave Stevens wrote:

On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 21:05:42 +0100
Rainer Duffner  wrote:


It’s also not often the case that you can split this kind of work
into a thousand work-packages and have everybody just work 1/2 hour a
day on it.


not like Debian for instance

d


The workflow is very different.  For a primary distribution, updates to 
different packages happen at different times.  Contributors can do that 
work when they have the time.


For a rebuild, work must happen as fast as possible after RHEL has 
released an update.  Much harder for volunteers to contribute to.


There are other support roles that volunteers can hopefully do, but the 
core mission doesn't really align well with that.


--
Orion Poplawski
Manager of NWRA Technical Systems  720-772-5637
NWRA, Boulder/CoRA Office FAX: 303-415-9702
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Re: [CentOS] Announcing Open-sourced & Community-Driven RHEL Fork by CloudLinux

[Ljubomir Ljubojevic]

In the context of RHEL clones, I think we should use term "EL" instead
of "CentOS", that is now trademark owned by RH.

On 12/13/20 8:36 PM, Nikolaos Milas wrote:
> On 13/12/2020 1:05 μ.μ., Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote:
> 
>> Just an update, name of the project will be "Lenix", and I missedin
>> announcement that unlike CentOS they plan to publish all the build tools
>> and environment so other clones can be built even if they stray, a very
>> commendable approach.
> 
> Sounds great!
> 
> It comes to mind that if Lenix and RockyLinux (and possibly other major
> forces) could merge and join efforts as a common project, the project
> could gain tremendous momentum very fast.
> 
> As was earlier mentioned, it is not easy to maintain such projects in
> the long term (despite goodwill), so joining forces would be quite safer
> for both the projects and the community, while it would also keep the
> community more focused, avoiding to disperse in multiple distros.
> 
> In any case, this is the kind of projects we would want to see, rather
> than large corporations' clones like OL.
> 
> And what I like is that there is so much energy in the CentOS community,
> that so important new projects are being announced in day zero after
> CentOS suicidal turn to Stream.
> 
> I am very confident that CentOS will live and prosper, but with a
> different name! (Unless IBM/RH **immediately** withdraw their announced
> plans and course of action.)
> 
> Cheers,
> Nick
> 
> ___
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-- 
Ljubomir Ljubojevic
(Love is in the Air)
PL Computers
Serbia, Europe

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Re: [CentOS] I'm looking forward to the future of CentOS Stream

[Nikolaos Milas]

On 13/12/2020 9:44 μ.μ., Simon Avery wrote:


There are 4,606 people on their Slack right now


...which, by the way, is being acquired by SalesForce!

Find a successor of Slack! 

Nick

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Re: [CentOS] I'm looking forward to the future of CentOS Stream

[Dave Stevens]

On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 21:05:42 +0100
Rainer Duffner  wrote:

> It’s also not often the case that you can split this kind of work
> into a thousand work-packages and have everybody just work 1/2 hour a
> day on it.

not like Debian for instance

d
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Re: [CentOS] I'm looking forward to the future of CentOS Stream

[Rainer Duffner]

> Am 13.12.2020 um 20:44 schrieb Simon Avery :
> 
>> 
>>> And there's *a lot* more than five of us.
>> 
>> Here is number six.
>> 
> 
> Just one of those groups energised from this decision is Rocky Linux. There
> are 4,606 people on their Slack right now, which did not even exist a week
> ago.



IIRC, one of the reasons cited that CentOS „merged“ with RedHat back then was 
that a lot of people were using CentOS, but there wasn’t enough money generated 
to pay the developers.

A lot of them were basically working for free.

That is never sustainable. At least not for a long time.

It’s also not often the case that you can split this kind of work into a 
thousand work-packages and have everybody just work 1/2 hour a day on it.



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Re: [CentOS] I'm looking forward to the future of CentOS Stream

[John R. Dennison]

On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 11:56:05AM -0800, Gordon Messmer wrote:
> 
> Your memory is still rusty.  Early accusations were that this would impact
> developers (such as Oracle) who were adding additional patches to the
> kernel, or other maintenance.  It never impacted "clones" like CentOS at
> all.

And you're incorrect; CentOS publishes a centosplus kernel that was
impacted to some extent by the kernel tarball changes I believe.

There are no absolutes in life, saying "never impacted" is almost surely
untrue for at least one group of people.





John
-- 
"I'm sorry but our engineers do not have phones."
As stated by a Network Solutions Customer Service representative when asked to
be put through to an engineer.


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Re: [CentOS] I'm looking forward to the future of CentOS Stream

[Gordon Messmer]

On 12/13/20 2:45 AM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote:

When people are happy with something they do not voice their content on
the mailing list, mailing list is only to voice your discontent. You
heard about "silent majority", right? Ever though why it is called that?



So, the majority of users are silent, because they're happy? Cool.



Point is that RH DID slow down build of clones due to this change



Your memory is still rusty.  Early accusations were that this would 
impact developers (such as Oracle) who were adding additional patches to 
the kernel, or other maintenance.  It never impacted "clones" like 
CentOS at all.


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Re: [CentOS] I'm looking forward to the future of CentOS Stream

[Simon Avery]

>
> > And there's *a lot* more than five of us.
>
> Here is number six.
>

Just one of those groups energised from this decision is Rocky Linux. There
are 4,606 people on their Slack right now, which did not even exist a week
ago.

 Yeah, it's more than five.
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Re: [CentOS] Announcing Open-sourced & Community-Driven RHEL Fork by CloudLinux

[Nikolaos Milas]

On 13/12/2020 1:05 μ.μ., Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote:


Just an update, name of the project will be "Lenix", and I missedin
announcement that unlike CentOS they plan to publish all the build tools
and environment so other clones can be built even if they stray, a very
commendable approach.


Sounds great!

It comes to mind that if Lenix and RockyLinux (and possibly other major 
forces) could merge and join efforts as a common project, the project 
could gain tremendous momentum very fast.


As was earlier mentioned, it is not easy to maintain such projects in 
the long term (despite goodwill), so joining forces would be quite safer 
for both the projects and the community, while it would also keep the 
community more focused, avoiding to disperse in multiple distros.


In any case, this is the kind of projects we would want to see, rather 
than large corporations' clones like OL.


And what I like is that there is so much energy in the CentOS community, 
that so important new projects are being announced in day zero after 
CentOS suicidal turn to Stream.


I am very confident that CentOS will live and prosper, but with a 
different name! (Unless IBM/RH **immediately** withdraw their announced 
plans and course of action.)


Cheers,
Nick

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Re: [CentOS] I'm looking forward to the future of CentOS Stream

[Marc Balmer via CentOS]

> Am 13.12.2020 um 19:53 schrieb Phelps, Matthew :
> 
> On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 11:48 PM Gordon Messmer 
> wrote:
> 
>>> On 12/11/20 9:56 AM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote:
>>> And I will repeat that millions of CentOS users found free clone of RHEL
>>> trustworthy enough to use it for production, even without "official
>>> endorsement".
>> 
>> 
>> Exactly.  That's why it's so weird that those people, today, think that
>> CentOS Stream won't be usable, based on their interpretation of the
>> official statements from Red Hat.  Red Hat's statements weren't taken
>> into consideration before, but now they're a sign of doom?
>> 
>> 
>>> If they ... even allowed ANYONE ELSE that was not employed by Red Hat in
>>> 2014 to even come close to learning the secrets of rebuild, no backlash
>>> would have happened
>> 
>> 
>> I'm going to stop you there, because the CentOS maintainers kept that
>> process out of public visibility long before Red Hat was ever involved.
>> If you think users should know more about the process, then you are
>> pointing fingers at the *wrong* people.
>> 
>> I don't want this to become a flame war.  So rather than pointing
>> fingers, let's focus on the fact that CentOS Stream promises to be
>> developed in the open, resolving the problem that you're describing.
>> 
>> Red Hat is fixing the thing you're complaining about.
>> 
>> Red Hat is giving us the thing that has been requested more often, by
>> more people, than any other change in CentOS, and the result is that the
>> press is full of stories about users being angry, because five people on
>> the mailing lists sent a lot of messages.  (About half of the traffic in
>> the threads on centos and centos-devel comes from five people, and
>> various people replying to them.)
>> 
>> 
> As one of those "five people" I assure you, this is not just a few angry
> voices. If you, or anyone at Red Hat believe this is the case, you are very
> sadly mistaken.
> 
> Here is the problem: When IBM took over Red Hat, and hence CentOS, these
> words were posted on the CentOS Blog:
> 
> 
> "What does this mean for Red Hat’s contributions to the CentOS project?
> 
> In short, nothing.
> 
> Red Hat always has and will continue to be a champion for open source and
> projects like CentOS. IBM is committed to Red Hat’s independence and role
> in open source software communities so that we can continue this work
> without interruption or changes.
> 
> Our mission, governance, and objectives remain the same. We will continue
> to execute the existing project roadmap."
> 
> 
> 
> This was *last year*. (CF
> https://blog.centos.org/2019/07/ibm-red-hat-and-centos/) Note the last
> sentence. The roadmap then had CentOS 8 supported through May 2029.
> 
> The simple fact is Red Hat reneged on a promise that hordes of us believed
> and made a lot of plans on. It is now going to be very expensive, and
> stress inducing to have to completely rethink everything we have done, and
> are doing.
> 
> You damn right we are angry.
> 
> 
> And there's *a lot* more than five of us.

Here is number six.

> 
> 
> 
>>> But no, as soon as Oracle started rebuilding RHEL source code Red Hat
>>> first made things difficult for everyone to create kernels (source code
>>> was not srpms anymore but tar?)
>> 
>> 
>> You're misinformed.  Kernels are still built from SRPM, but the archive
>> used is no longer an upstream release with a series of patches.
>> 
>> The reason for the change is not insidious.  It's unfortunate that the
>> pristine source + patches can't be maintained, I agree, but speaking as
>> a developer: maintaining hundreds of patches that touch intersecting
>> files and rebasing them all when earlier patches are updated is an
>> incredibly difficult and time consuming task.  And, if I remember
>> correctly, applying all of those patches took almost as long as building
>> the kernel.  If it takes that long to just prepare the source code,
>> that's a major hit to productivity when a developer needs to work on the
>> code or build the SRPM to validate changes.
>> 
>> And, ultimately, there's very little value in shipping those patches
>> when the vast majority of them are already in the current version of the
>> upstream kernel, and they're merely backported to the older release that
>> Red Hat supports.  It's an entirely different story when distributions
>> are shipping patches that they don't push upstream, but that's not
>> generally what you see with the kernel package.
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> *Matt Phelps*
> 
> *Information Technology Specialist, Systems Administrator*
> 
> (Computation Facility, Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory)
> 
> Center for Astrophysics | Harvard & Smithsonian
> 
> 
> 60 Garden Street | MS 39 | Cambridge, MA 02138
> email: mphe...@cfa.harvard.edu
> 
> 
> cfa.harvard.edu | Facebook 

Re: [CentOS] I'm looking forward to the future of CentOS Stream

[Phelps, Matthew]

On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 11:48 PM Gordon Messmer 
wrote:

> On 12/11/20 9:56 AM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote:
> > And I will repeat that millions of CentOS users found free clone of RHEL
> > trustworthy enough to use it for production, even without "official
> > endorsement".
>
>
> Exactly.  That's why it's so weird that those people, today, think that
> CentOS Stream won't be usable, based on their interpretation of the
> official statements from Red Hat.  Red Hat's statements weren't taken
> into consideration before, but now they're a sign of doom?
>
>
> > If they ... even allowed ANYONE ELSE that was not employed by Red Hat in
> > 2014 to even come close to learning the secrets of rebuild, no backlash
> > would have happened
>
>
> I'm going to stop you there, because the CentOS maintainers kept that
> process out of public visibility long before Red Hat was ever involved.
> If you think users should know more about the process, then you are
> pointing fingers at the *wrong* people.
>
> I don't want this to become a flame war.  So rather than pointing
> fingers, let's focus on the fact that CentOS Stream promises to be
> developed in the open, resolving the problem that you're describing.
>
> Red Hat is fixing the thing you're complaining about.
>
> Red Hat is giving us the thing that has been requested more often, by
> more people, than any other change in CentOS, and the result is that the
> press is full of stories about users being angry, because five people on
> the mailing lists sent a lot of messages.  (About half of the traffic in
> the threads on centos and centos-devel comes from five people, and
> various people replying to them.)
>
>
As one of those "five people" I assure you, this is not just a few angry
voices. If you, or anyone at Red Hat believe this is the case, you are very
sadly mistaken.

Here is the problem: When IBM took over Red Hat, and hence CentOS, these
words were posted on the CentOS Blog:


"What does this mean for Red Hat’s contributions to the CentOS project?

In short, nothing.

Red Hat always has and will continue to be a champion for open source and
projects like CentOS. IBM is committed to Red Hat’s independence and role
in open source software communities so that we can continue this work
without interruption or changes.

Our mission, governance, and objectives remain the same. We will continue
to execute the existing project roadmap."



This was *last year*. (CF
https://blog.centos.org/2019/07/ibm-red-hat-and-centos/) Note the last
sentence. The roadmap then had CentOS 8 supported through May 2029.

The simple fact is Red Hat reneged on a promise that hordes of us believed
and made a lot of plans on. It is now going to be very expensive, and
stress inducing to have to completely rethink everything we have done, and
are doing.

You damn right we are angry.


And there's *a lot* more than five of us.



> > But no, as soon as Oracle started rebuilding RHEL source code Red Hat
> > first made things difficult for everyone to create kernels (source code
> > was not srpms anymore but tar?)
>
>
> You're misinformed.  Kernels are still built from SRPM, but the archive
> used is no longer an upstream release with a series of patches.
>
> The reason for the change is not insidious.  It's unfortunate that the
> pristine source + patches can't be maintained, I agree, but speaking as
> a developer: maintaining hundreds of patches that touch intersecting
> files and rebasing them all when earlier patches are updated is an
> incredibly difficult and time consuming task.  And, if I remember
> correctly, applying all of those patches took almost as long as building
> the kernel.  If it takes that long to just prepare the source code,
> that's a major hit to productivity when a developer needs to work on the
> code or build the SRPM to validate changes.
>
> And, ultimately, there's very little value in shipping those patches
> when the vast majority of them are already in the current version of the
> upstream kernel, and they're merely backported to the older release that
> Red Hat supports.  It's an entirely different story when distributions
> are shipping patches that they don't push upstream, but that's not
> generally what you see with the kernel package.
>
>
> ___
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> https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
>


-- 

*Matt Phelps*

*Information Technology Specialist, Systems Administrator*

(Computation Facility, Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory)

Center for Astrophysics | Harvard & Smithsonian


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Re: [CentOS-es] CentOS rip?

[Henry Rosado]

Solo me pregunto uno de los creadores de éste sistema mail que fue EPE,
como ve ésto, el era un fuerte en CentOS, aparte, que otra alternativa se
podría tomar y de paso, los servidores que están en producción, tocará
migrar a otros como Debian o ubuntu server?

El dom., 13 dic. 2020 9:14, orkcu via CentOS-es 
escribió:

> El problema connlos projectos de rebuild es el mantenimiento a largo
> plazo, año tras año, servers, connectivity, etcEl creador de CAOS, mas
> tarde renombrado CentOS se cansó en un momento, y fue una crisis fuerte
> para el projecto, pues él tenia el control de todo y estaba cansado pero le
> era dificil pasar el baton a los que estaban dispuestos a seguir la
> carrera.Tambien parece que se ha olvidado cual fue la razon de la
> existencia de los clones de RHEL RedHat decidio terminar con RHL.CU
>  Original message From: "Alex (Servtelecom) via CentOS-es"
>  Date: 2020-12-11  11:09 a.m.  (GMT-05:00) To:
> orkcu via CentOS-es  Subject: Re: [CentOS-es]
> CentOS rip? si, centos como lo conocemos esta muerto, ahora sera como un
> fedora  un banco de pruebas para RedHatpero el creador de CentOS ha creado
> un fork llamado Rocky Linux que en poco tiempo estará en producciónEn 11
> dic. 2020 17:06, en 17:06, "David González Romero" 
> escribió:>Alguien sabe de 
> esto>>https://centos.rip/>>Saludos,>David>___>CentOS-es
> mailing list>CentOS-es@centos.org>
> https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-es___CentOS-es
> mailing listCentOS-es@centos.orghttps://
> lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-es
> ___
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> https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-es
>
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Re: [CentOS-es] CentOS rip?

[orkcu via CentOS-es]

El problema connlos projectos de rebuild es el mantenimiento a largo plazo, año 
tras año, servers, connectivity, etcEl creador de CAOS, mas tarde renombrado 
CentOS se cansó en un momento, y fue una crisis fuerte para el projecto, pues 
él tenia el control de todo y estaba cansado pero le era dificil pasar el baton 
a los que estaban dispuestos a seguir la carrera.Tambien parece que se ha 
olvidado cual fue la razon de la existencia de los clones de RHEL RedHat 
decidio terminar con RHL.CU
 Original message From: "Alex (Servtelecom) via CentOS-es" 
 Date: 2020-12-11  11:09 a.m.  (GMT-05:00) To: orkcu via 
CentOS-es  Subject: Re: [CentOS-es] CentOS rip? si, 
centos como lo conocemos esta muerto, ahora sera como un fedora  un banco de 
pruebas para RedHatpero el creador de CentOS ha creado un fork llamado Rocky 
Linux que en poco tiempo estará en producciónEn 11 dic. 2020 17:06, en 17:06, 
"David González Romero"  escribió:>Alguien sabe de 
esto>>https://centos.rip/>>Saludos,>David>___>CentOS-es
 mailing 
list>CentOS-es@centos.org>https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-es___CentOS-es
 mailing 
listCentOS-es@centos.orghttps://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-es
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Re: [CentOS] Announcing Open-sourced & Community-Driven RHEL Fork by CloudLinux

[Ljubomir Ljubojevic]

Just an update, name of the project will be "Lenix", and I missedin
announcement that unlike CentOS they plan to publish all the build tools
and environment so other clones can be built even if they stray, a very
commendable approach.


On 12/10/20 8:05 PM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote:
> Someone is smarter then Red Hat/IBM, "Carpe Diem":
> 
> Announcing Open-sourced & Community-Driven RHEL Fork by CloudLinux
> 
> (https://blog.cloudlinux.com/announcing-open-sourced-community-driven-rhel-fork-by-cloudlinux)
> 
> CentOS is a fork of Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) and undoubtedly a
> popular choice to deploy on production servers because of its rock-solid
> stability and compatibility. But, now with CentOS Stream, Red Hat just
> killed CentOS as we know it. And as expected, people started to fork Red
> Hat to give a viable community-based alternative to RHEL.
> 
> 
> 
> As we already maintain CloudLinux OS, we plan to release a free,
> open-sourced, community-driven, 1:1 binary compatible fork of RHEL® 8
> (and future releases) in the Q1 of 2021. We will create a separate,
> totally free OS that is fully binary compatible with RHEL® 8 (and future
> versions). We will sponsor the development & maintenance of such OS. We
> will work on establishing a community around the OS, with the governing
> board from members of the community.
> 
> 
> Why We Are Doing It
> 
> We have all the infrastructure, software and experience to do that
> already. We have a large staff of developers and maintainers that have a
> decade of experience in building an RHEL fork, starting from RHEL5 to RHEL8.
> We expect that this project will put us on the map, and allow people
> to discover our rebootless update software and Extended Lifecycle
> Support offering.
> 
> 
> 
> What Will We Do To Make Sure That It Doesn't Go Wrong
> 
> We plan to make all the build and test software free, open-sourced, easy
> to set up, so if we ever go in the wrong direction - the community can
> just pick up where we left off.
> 
> 
> What It Means For You
> 
> If you are running CloudLinux OS 8 - it will continue to have stable and
> well-tested updates until 2029, and ELS releases for years after that.
> 
> 
> 
> If you are running CentOS 8 - we will release an OS very similar to
> CentOS 8 based on RHEL 8 stable. We will provide stable and well-tested
> updates until 2029 - completely free. You will be able to convert from
> CentOS 8 at any moment by running a single command that switches
> repositories & keys.
> 
> 
> Timeline
> 
> Q1 2021
> 
> 


-- 
Ljubomir Ljubojevic
(Love is in the Air)
PL Computers
Serbia, Europe

StarOS, Mikrotik and CentOS/RHEL/Linux consultant
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Re: [CentOS] Oracle Linux 8 - short experiment with install and basic setup of Mate Desktop

[Rainer Traut]

You have not asked me, but I have another thing to add - maybe related.

Am 13.12.20 um 09:54 schrieb Simon Matter:

Le 13/12/2020 à 05:30, Frank Cox a écrit :

So after reading other folks' opinions of an Oracle Linux 8 (thanks
again,
Nicolas!) trial installation, I decided to crank up a Virtual Box
session
and try an install myself.


I've made a few corrections to the article. If there's enough demand, I
could
translate it into english:

https://blog.microlinux.fr/migration-centos-oracle-linux/

Thanks for the heads-up for EPEL. I'll look into that.



Hi Nicolas,

I've already mentoned the EPEL issue in one of my post together with
another thing I saw:

'dnf check-upgrade' shows some .src packages in the list of updatable
packages.

Did you also see this?


When mirroring their bunch of OL[6-8] and OVM34 this works really good
with reposync.
But it pulls in all their src rpms.

The solution is to specify all needed "ARCHes" like:

$ reposync -a i386 -a i686 -a x86_64 -a noarch



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Re: [CentOS] I'm looking forward to the future of CentOS Stream

[Ljubomir Ljubojevic]

On 12/13/20 5:48 AM, Gordon Messmer wrote:
> On 12/11/20 9:56 AM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote:
>> And I will repeat that millions of CentOS users found free clone of RHEL
>> trustworthy enough to use it for production, even without "official
>> endorsement".
> 
> 
> Exactly.  That's why it's so weird that those people, today, think that
> CentOS Stream won't be usable, based on their interpretation of the
> official statements from Red Hat.  Red Hat's statements weren't taken
> into consideration before, but now they're a sign of doom?

Do not turn this upside down. Many obviously smarter then me saw this
coming. Us more gullible believed when corporation told us nothing will
change, while they took control of entire project. Death by thousand
cuts is always more preferable by corporations, less bad PR.
And they are not sign of doom but death, but of only this particular
clone, others will take it's mantle. The reason I an agitated is I
believed and with all my hearth supported this project, and now is owned
by heartless profit-driven corporation

> 
> 
>> If they ... even allowed ANYONE ELSE that was not employed by Red Hat in
>> 2014 to even come close to learning the secrets of rebuild, no backlash
>> would have happened
> 
> 
> I'm going to stop you there, because the CentOS maintainers kept that
> process out of public visibility long before Red Hat was ever involved. 
> If you think users should know more about the process, then you are
> pointing fingers at the *wrong* people.
> 
> I don't want this to become a flame war.  So rather than pointing
> fingers, let's focus on the fact that CentOS Stream promises to be
> developed in the open, resolving the problem that you're describing.
> 
> Red Hat is fixing the thing you're complaining about.
Don't be silly. They wanted to control the process, and to prevent
anyone else from cutting into their process.
You should read their manifesto for stream, only RH employees will be
able to change that code, others will only be able to report bugs/issues
and to sit and watch what RH does with them.
Only real difference with stream is for those few hundred developers
that are developing software that runs on RHEL so their code can be
deployed as soon as new point release is launched.

And even that RH does more for it's own gain, so that (opensurce?)
projects/software important to RH can be deployed without delay, lest
users ditch RH and go elsewhere.


> 
> Red Hat is giving us the thing that has been requested more often, by
> more people, than any other change in CentOS, and the result is that the
> press is full of stories about users being angry, because five people on
> the mailing lists sent a lot of messages.  (About half of the traffic in
> the threads on centos and centos-devel comes from five people, and
> various people replying to them.)

When people are happy with something they do not voice their content on
the mailing list, mailing list is only to voice your discontent. You
heard about "silent majority", right? Ever though why it is called that?


> 
> 
>> But no, as soon as Oracle started rebuilding RHEL source code Red Hat
>> first made things difficult for everyone to create kernels (source code
>> was not srpms anymore but tar?)
> 
> 
> You're misinformed.  Kernels are still built from SRPM, but the archive
> used is no longer an upstream release with a series of patches.

Not misinformed, I was part of that discussion 9 years ago, but my
memory was little rusty, but I was part of that discussion and It did
not bother be to track down one of the comments about kernel tarballs
being published as monolith code vs trackable patches, to make problems
for builders of RHEL clones:

"There is the kernel tarball issue. That's understandable, but real.
Red Hat is publishing their kernels as tarballs, rather than as the
vanilla tarball with a list of ordered patches against it. This makes
layering in, or out, specific patches much more awkward. Was Oracle
being any better about this? Does anyone have actual pointers to their
SRPM's?"
(https://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-devel/2011-March/063442.html)

> 
> The reason for the change is not insidious.  It's unfortunate that the
> pristine source + patches can't be maintained, I agree, but speaking as
> a developer: maintaining hundreds of patches that touch intersecting
> files and rebasing them all when earlier patches are updated is an
> incredibly difficult and time consuming task.  And, if I remember
> correctly, applying all of those patches took almost as long as building
> the kernel.  If it takes that long to just prepare the source code,
> that's a major hit to productivity when a developer needs to work on the
> code or build the SRPM to validate changes.
> 
> And, ultimately, there's very little value in shipping those patches
> when the vast majority of them are already in the current version of the
> upstream kernel, and they're merely backported to the older release that
> Red Hat 

Re: [CentOS] I'm looking forward to the future of CentOS Stream

[Nikolaos Milas]

On 13/12/2020 6:48 π.μ., Gordon Messmer wrote:

Red Hat is giving us the thing that has been requested more often, by 
more people, than any other change in CentOS, and the result is that 
the press is full of stories about users being angry, because five 
people on the mailing lists sent a lot of messages.  (About half of 
the traffic in the threads on centos and centos-devel comes from five 
people, and various people replying to them.)


Not really. I am afraid you are missing the point. Also see: 7500 
sysadmins and growing are already explicitly rejecting the change.



...but speaking as a developer...


That's the problem: you are speaking as a developer, not as a sysadmin. 
CentOS is clearly for sysadmins, not for developers.


On 13/12/2020 10:22 π.μ., Nicolas Kovacs wrote:

For the last 16 years, the explicit scope of the CentOS project has 
been to

rebuild RHEL "bug by bug". No more no less. A fact that has been stressed
repeatedly by the maintainers on this list. So admins all over the world
trusted this.

Words do have a meaning. 


+1

And what is worse: RH are pushing their users to their competitors 
(read: OL).


RH are pulling their own eyes out... It's a shame.

And all that because they decided to stop supporting a quite extensive 
worldwide amount of orgs and sysadmins who need a safe and dependable 
production OS that does not cost a fortune, although many of those at 
some point in time might become RH support customers!


Now RH earned discontent and distrust from a large part of their FOSS 
community.


Such a sad end for CentOS... (In fact it is an end indeed.)

OL, Rocky Linux (when fully established) and other such projects 
(mentioned in various threads) will gain large parts of this extensive 
group. Some many end up in using CentOS Stream, but the core part of 
this vibrant community will probably lost by RH and the good old CentOS 
group (now in RH). Time will show.


That's a pity, because a large and conscious part of this community 
indeed has some affinity to Karanbir et al, greatly respecting their 
history and efforts...


RH (& CentOS) still has some small window of opportunity to announce 
full support of CentOS 8 to its EOL.


Cheers,
Nick

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Re: [CentOS] Fix for CVE-2020-1971 on CentOS 6.10

[Simon Matter]

> On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 08:20:04PM +0100, Simon Matter wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Attached patches:
>> openssl.spec.patch.gz
>> openssl-1.0.1e-cve-2020-1971.patch.gz
>>
>> Please let me know if you find any issues.
>
> Attachments scrubbed from your message when posted.
>

OK, let's try it again. Hope this one goes through.

Simon

---%<---
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EOF
---%<---

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Re: [CentOS] Oracle Linux 8 - short experiment with install and basic setup of Mate Desktop

[Simon Matter]

> Le 13/12/2020 à 05:30, Frank Cox a écrit :
>> So after reading other folks' opinions of an Oracle Linux 8 (thanks
>> again,
>> Nicolas!) trial installation, I decided to crank up a Virtual Box
>> session
>> and try an install myself.
>
> I've made a few corrections to the article. If there's enough demand, I
> could
> translate it into english:
>
> https://blog.microlinux.fr/migration-centos-oracle-linux/
>
> Thanks for the heads-up for EPEL. I'll look into that.
>

Hi Nicolas,

I've already mentoned the EPEL issue in one of my post together with
another thing I saw:

'dnf check-upgrade' shows some .src packages in the list of updatable
packages.

Did you also see this?

Simon

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Re: [CentOS] Oracle Linux 8 - short experiment with install and basic setup of Mate Desktop

[Nicolas Kovacs]

Le 13/12/2020 à 05:30, Frank Cox a écrit :
> So after reading other folks' opinions of an Oracle Linux 8 (thanks again,
> Nicolas!) trial installation, I decided to crank up a Virtual Box session
> and try an install myself.

I've made a few corrections to the article. If there's enough demand, I could
translate it into english:

https://blog.microlinux.fr/migration-centos-oracle-linux/

Thanks for the heads-up for EPEL. I'll look into that.

Cheers,

Niki

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Re: [CentOS] I'm looking forward to the future of CentOS Stream

[Nicolas Kovacs]

Le 11/12/2020 à 18:25, Gordon Messmer a écrit :
> I'll repeat what I said earlier, CentOS has never offered the things people 
> are
> complaining about losing.  They've never asked for your trust and confidence.

For the last 16 years, the explicit scope of the CentOS project has been to
rebuild RHEL "bug by bug". No more no less. A fact that has been stressed
repeatedly by the maintainers on this list. So admins all over the world
trusted this.

Words do have a meaning.

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Re: [CentOS] I'm looking forward to the future of CentOS Stream

[Nicolas Kovacs]

Le 11/12/2020 à 02:25, Gordon Messmer a écrit :
> Personally, I think that changing focus on CentOS Stream is going to make
> CentOS (and maybe even RHEL) better in the same way and for the same reasons
> that Fedora is a better distribution than Red Hat Linux was.

Using Fedora on production servers is like climbing without a rope.

It's possible. I've even seen some folks do it.

:o)

Cheers from a climber

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