Re: [CentOS] I want an advice
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 09:50:28PM -0500, Digimer wrote: > On 02/13/2013 05:48 PM, Bassem Sossan wrote: > > Hello > > > > I've changed from Ms Windows 2008 R2 to CentOS 6 recently, and there are > > many aspects to learn in relation to command line ( Bash scripting, package > > system managing, file system and so on )... there's a lengthy online document on scripting with BASH: http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/ or as a single PDF file: http://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/abs-guide.pdf and there's a beginner's BASH guide here: http://www.tldp.org/LDP/Bash-Beginners-Guide/html/Bash-Beginners-Guide.html and another one here: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/aix/library/au-getstartedbash/index.html and yet another: http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Bash-Prog-Intro-HOWTO.html and another: https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Bash_Shell_Scripting good luck! Fred -- Fred Smith -- fre...@fcshome.stoneham.ma.us - I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. -- Philippians 4:13 --- ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] I want an advice
On 14/02/2013 16:00, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: Les Mikesell wrote: On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 9:07 AM, wrote: I keep hearing this "arcane" - even the author of xkcd commented about not remembering tar flags... and yet, 80%-90% of them are trivially obvious to me - -r (or -R) for recursion, -f for file. For configuration, such as firewalls, there's always copy an existing line and edit, then do a syntax check. The 'arcane' issue isn't so much per-process as it is knowing which program does what and how or if they interact in a way that affects your upper-level task. For example, I don't think it is very obvious what you have to do for common things like giving a dhcp address with an associated dns name to a specific device. Or maybe setting up a group of users with some special file system access, samba shares, web logins with group access for several different web apps, and an email True - but that's getting into nontrivial tasks, if you're doing it for more than your own machine at home. There are security issues, and organization policies, etc. Windows lures us into a false sense of security anyway: "Under Windows you just run the security & policy program, click next, next, finish and 'hey' you're done, all secure...". At least when you have to think about something you can get more real confidence that you've done it right!! -- Regards, Giles Coochey, CCNA, CCNAS NetSecSpec Ltd +44 (0) 7983 877438 http://www.coochey.net http://www.netsecspec.co.uk gi...@coochey.net ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] I want an advice
Les Mikesell wrote: > On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 9:07 AM, wrote: >> > >> I keep hearing this "arcane" - even the author of xkcd commented about >> not remembering tar flags... and yet, 80%-90% of them are trivially obvious >> to me - -r (or -R) for recursion, -f for file. For configuration, such as >> firewalls, there's always copy an existing line and edit, then do a >> syntax check. > > The 'arcane' issue isn't so much per-process as it is knowing which > program does what and how or if they interact in a way that affects > your upper-level task. For example, I don't think it is very obvious > what you have to do for common things like giving a dhcp address with > an associated dns name to a specific device. Or maybe setting up a > group of users with some special file system access, samba shares, web > logins with group access for several different web apps, and an email True - but that's getting into nontrivial tasks, if you're doing it for more than your own machine at home. There are security issues, and organization policies, etc. > group address. And as for tar flags, if you use it for backups, which > one will make your restored system bootable? grub-install? > >> mark "but then, I also spent decades as a programmer" > > Then maybe it makes sense for you for each program needed above to not > do much in the way of integrating with the others. From the > perspective of a user it can seem complicated. No. One of the reasons I really, *really* like all versions of *Nix is that most programs *can* work together, through switches and filters. But then, as you progress from novice to craftsman, one of the chief things you need to do is learn what the tools are, and how to use them, and how to use them at *least* as intended. mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] I want an advice
On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 9:07 AM, wrote: > > > I keep hearing this "arcane" - even the author of xkcd commented about not > remembering tar flags... and yet, 80%-90% of them are trivially obvious to > me - -r (or -R) for recursion, -f for file. For configuration, such as > firewalls, there's always copy an existing line and edit, then do a syntax > check. The 'arcane' issue isn't so much per-process as it is knowing which program does what and how or if they interact in a way that affects your upper-level task. For example, I don't think it is very obvious what you have to do for common things like giving a dhcp address with an associated dns name to a specific device. Or maybe setting up a group of users with some special file system access, samba shares, web logins with group access for several different web apps, and an email group address. And as for tar flags, if you use it for backups, which one will make your restored system bootable? > mark "but then, I also spent decades as a programmer" Then maybe it makes sense for you for each program needed above to not do much in the way of integrating with the others. From the perspective of a user it can seem complicated. -- Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] I want an advice
James B. Byrne wrote: > On Wed, February 13, 2013 17:48, Bassem Sossan wrote: >> Hello >> >> I've changed from Ms Windows 2008 R2 to CentOS 6 recently, and >> there are many aspects to learn in relation to command line >> ( Bash scripting, package system managing, file system and so on )... >> >> I need to apply as much as I can of Network Infrastructure knowledge >> ( DNS, DHCP and Virtualization ) concepts using CentOS 6 >> GUI... >> >> I know that I must learn dealing with linux using command tools >> and that will come, but it has much more of time, so, Am I forced >> as a learner to follow command line tools before going to GUI or I >> can get a good knowledge and experience by implementing my skills >> on GUI ? >> >> So sorry to pothering There's already a lot of GUI built into every desktop. Have you looked at them? > it. The CLI of the underlying utilities is the final arbitrator of > course and there 'man ' is your ever-present friend > (usually). Nonetheless, the syntax of even the most common *nix > commands is often arcane and similar utilities frequently have such > subtly different variations that ones mind is sometimes driven to > distraction with the inconsistencies. I keep hearing this "arcane" - even the author of xkcd commented about not remembering tar flags... and yet, 80%-90% of them are trivially obvious to me - -r (or -R) for recursion, -f for file. For configuration, such as firewalls, there's always copy an existing line and edit, then do a syntax check. mark "but then, I also spent decades as a programmer" ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] I want an advice
On Wed, February 13, 2013 17:48, Bassem Sossan wrote: > Hello > > I've changed from Ms Windows 2008 R2 to CentOS 6 recently, and > there are many aspects to learn in relation to command line > ( Bash scripting, package system managing, file system and so on )... > > I need to apply as much as I can of Network Infrastructure knowledge > ( DNS, DHCP and Virtualization ) concepts using CentOS 6 > GUI... > > I know that I must learn dealing with linux using command tools > and that will come, but it has much more of time, so, Am I forced > as a learner to follow command line tools before going to GUI or I > can get a good knowledge and experience by implementing my skills > on GUI ? > > So sorry to pothering First, I am a *nix heretic. Second, I have been using one form of Redhat or another since v5.2 c.1999. For the past 11 years or so I have used Webmin (shielded through IPTables for those horrified at the security implications) to administer my servers, both local and remote. I simply could not get my job done in the time available without it or something much like it. The CLI of the underlying utilities is the final arbitrator of course and there 'man ' is your ever-present friend (usually). Nonetheless, the syntax of even the most common *nix commands is often arcane and similar utilities frequently have such subtly different variations that ones mind is sometimes driven to distraction with the inconsistencies. A GUI, whether web based or not, at least clears away that problem for many routine tasks. In any case you will be forced to learn the cli for some utilities from the outset because there is no safe way of using them otherwise. And situations will arise where knowing how to creatively combine utilities with pipes on the command line will save a great deal of time and trouble. A GUI will never give you those opportunities. But for most day-to-day stuff a GUI saves a considerable amount of effort and prevents a great deal of error. Both of which for a newcomer to Linux are of great value. As others suggested, having a test server for experimentation is a really, really good idea. I tend to fire up guest instances on my kvm desktop for such 'proof of concept' trials but I suppose any crash-and-burn system would suffice. Good luck and welcome. Regards, -- *** E-Mail is NOT a SECURE channel *** James B. Byrnemailto:byrn...@harte-lyne.ca Harte & Lyne Limited http://www.harte-lyne.ca 9 Brockley Drive vox: +1 905 561 1241 Hamilton, Ontario fax: +1 905 561 0757 Canada L8E 3C3 ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] I want an advice
Hi, I had similar problem, initially. And what i did was, (1) after installing centos (without gui stuff), (2) i installed webmin (for setting up very important services at-least for it to start running and provide essential services), then (3) from a windows machine/box or from another linux box, access the main linux server(s) via SSH connection, in ssh client software (4) create tunnel for accessing webmin. webmin allows to configure servers using web-browser software from remote machines, and there are many other "webmin" like admin panel software. (none of the admin panel software are officially supported by centos (as far as i'm aware), so you're on your own for doing research/learn). Most of these admin panel software will ALSO allow to access server via shell/terminal/command-prompt type of window which will appear inside the web-browser software, for doing command-lines for fine tuning server software settings. And since you're using SSH client, you'll already have a shell/terminal, so no need to use that feat inside the web-browser. If you want to accesss server only via admin-panel's control port (for "webmin" that control port is by default the port 1), then, you can use that shell/terminal window inside the web-browser software. Next what i did, (or i suppose to have done), is to (5) create a non-root regular user, for this discussion i'm naming it "non-root". i allowed "non-root" to access server from internet/routable IP, and restricted or disabled "root" user's login via SSH. (6) Changed SSH client's settings to use that "non-root" user for ssh connection. When you need to do something that requires "root" user level access, then use su, su -, sudo, etc command before the function commands. (7) i have started to learn linux/centos and configure & fine-tune further. IMHO ... Various Data, Settings from servers are needed to be shown to Admins graphically, for that, use various admin panel type of software and access it remotely, and avoid using graphical software/desktop on the server itself. Using GUI/desktop on "linux server" is considered as very bad recipe for very very weak/bad configuration/food/product/services, open to various type of harmful, unwanted activities, loopholes, etc. But if you MUST have to, only then, after login as root, first create a non-root / regular user. Logout from root, and login as non-root. Install GUI/desktop related software via that non-root user, in some software you will have no choice but to raise the access level of that non-root user to little bit higher level or add this "non-root" user in the allowed list, for desktop/GUI related software to work, (you will need to do your own research for that, if you want to use non-root and keep the server safer, than using root directly and open it up to attacks and weak configurations). And if you do also need SSH access to that server, then create non-root-2 regular user, and allow only that user to access server via SSH, no one else. If i'm making mistake in above instruction procedure, please correct me, instruct us/mailing-list users, what would be better/safer way to do this, (a Safer way to use desktop/GUI on centos linux server, if exist). And my recommendation is in above, the paragraph which starts with "IMHO". -- Bright Star. Received from Bassem Sossan, on 2013-02-13 10:48 PM: > Hello > > I've changed from Ms Windows 2008 R2 to CentOS 6 recently, and > there are many aspects to learn in relation to command line ( > Bash scripting, package system managing, file system and so on > )... > > I need to apply as much as I can of Network Infrastructure > knowledge ( DNS, DHCP and Virtualization ) concepts using > CentOS 6 GUI... > > I know that I must learn dealing with linux using command tools > and that will come, but it has much more of time, so, Am I forced > as a learner to follow command line tools before going to GUI or > I can get a good knowledge and experience by implementing my > skills on GUI ? > > So sorry to pothering > > All the best... ___ > CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org > http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos > signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] I want an advice
On 02/13/2013 05:48 PM, Bassem Sossan wrote: > Hello > > I've changed from Ms Windows 2008 R2 to CentOS 6 recently, and there are > many aspects to learn in relation to command line ( Bash scripting, package > system managing, file system and so on )... > > I need to apply as much as I can of Network Infrastructure knowledge ( DNS, > DHCP and Virtualization ) concepts using CentOS 6 GUI... > > I know that I must learn dealing with linux using command tools and that > will come, but it has much more of time, so, Am I forced as a learner to > follow command line tools before going to GUI or I can get a good knowledge > and experience by implementing my skills on GUI ? > > So sorry to pothering > > All the best... Welcome to the world of linux! First up, one of the nice things about linux is that you are rarely forced to do anything. That said, most sysadmins do work primarily on the command line. However, most tools have graphical versions or front-ends to help ease the learning curve. If you can find a good sysadmin book for Red Hat Enterprise Linux version 6, you can use what you read on CentOS as CentOS is a nearly exact copy of Red Hat. Keep in mind that the linux command line is nothing at all like the windows command line. You don't have to be a programmer to use it, but as you learn, you will find that you can do many "program-like" things that will save you a lot of time and make your life very simple, even when doing very complex tasks. It is why most people end up using the command line most. So don't feel intimidated, take your time and have fun! Of course, the mailing list is a great place to ask for help when you run into road blocks. Enjoy! -- Digimer Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.ca/w/ What if the cure for cancer is trapped in the mind of a person without access to education? ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] I want an advice
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 11:07 PM, Nux! wrote: > On 13.02.2013 22:48, Bassem Sossan wrote: >> Hello >> >> I've changed from Ms Windows 2008 R2 to CentOS 6 recently, and there >> are >> many aspects to learn in relation to command line ( Bash scripting, >> package >> system managing, file system and so on )... >> >> I need to apply as much as I can of Network Infrastructure knowledge ( >> DNS, >> DHCP and Virtualization ) concepts using CentOS 6 GUI... >> >> I know that I must learn dealing with linux using command tools and >> that >> will come, but it has much more of time, so, Am I forced as a learner >> to >> follow command line tools before going to GUI or I can get a good >> knowledge >> and experience by implementing my skills on GUI ? >> >> So sorry to pothering >> >> All the best... > > My advice, forget about the GUI, go for cli directly. > And if you want to get serious about Linux, wipe out your current > desktop Windows install and replace it with CentOS, force yourself to > use it daily; I can't recommend this enough. Linux is a different world to windoze as folk are fond of saying. My advice would be get hold of a spare pc to learn on and make mistakes before trying to use it as your main pc. With linux you need to be proficient on the cli rather than gui. It doesn't matter which distro you start with as i'd advise you use the spare pc to experiment fully with - but you need to decide on either the debian or rpm distro families. While there are many distros there are only a few i'd use and that depends on the repos, maintainers/developers, package management i.e. i'm interested in what's 'under the bonnet' not what apps they might ship with the liveCD. james ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] I want an advice
On 13.02.2013 22:48, Bassem Sossan wrote: > Hello > > I've changed from Ms Windows 2008 R2 to CentOS 6 recently, and there > are > many aspects to learn in relation to command line ( Bash scripting, > package > system managing, file system and so on )... > > I need to apply as much as I can of Network Infrastructure knowledge ( > DNS, > DHCP and Virtualization ) concepts using CentOS 6 GUI... > > I know that I must learn dealing with linux using command tools and > that > will come, but it has much more of time, so, Am I forced as a learner > to > follow command line tools before going to GUI or I can get a good > knowledge > and experience by implementing my skills on GUI ? > > So sorry to pothering > > All the best... My advice, forget about the GUI, go for cli directly. And if you want to get serious about Linux, wipe out your current desktop Windows install and replace it with CentOS, force yourself to use it daily; I can't recommend this enough. -- Sent from the Delta quadrant using Borg technology! Nux! www.nux.ro ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
[CentOS] I want an advice
Hello I've changed from Ms Windows 2008 R2 to CentOS 6 recently, and there are many aspects to learn in relation to command line ( Bash scripting, package system managing, file system and so on )... I need to apply as much as I can of Network Infrastructure knowledge ( DNS, DHCP and Virtualization ) concepts using CentOS 6 GUI... I know that I must learn dealing with linux using command tools and that will come, but it has much more of time, so, Am I forced as a learner to follow command line tools before going to GUI or I can get a good knowledge and experience by implementing my skills on GUI ? So sorry to pothering All the best... ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
