Re: [CentOS] Plurals in English (was Re: ClamAV reports a trojan)
On 2015-04-17, Peter Lawler cen...@bleeter.id.au wrote: [OT ALERT] On 17/04/15 02:28, Valeri Galtsev wrote: clamav is a scanner that is designed to detect viruses (virii I should use for plural as it is Latin word) I believe this 'rule' in English is misunderstood by many and as a general rule of thumb... tl;dr: Words from Old English that came into modern English, use 'Old English' pluralisation: eg, sheep, fish etc. words adopted from other languages into English before and after modern English established, use 'modern' pluralisation eg, tsunamis, octopuses. rant As 'virus' was adopted into English for usage in relation to bugs, malwares etc. after the formation of modern English, the plural of computer virus is computer viruses. IMO, in a medical sense, the virus was first described in the 1890 - well after the formation of modern English so even then the plural of virus in English is viruses. I agree entirely. Also relevant is the fact that the Latin word 'virus' does not admit a plural form. Reasoning: If one had to learn the pluralisation of every word adopted into modern English, then an English speaker would have to learn the pluralisation rules for far more than just English (see above re tsunami, octopus but also consider other non old English words such as emoji alligator mannequin boulevard cookie umbrella alcohol nadir etc.) For old English words, the pluralisation rules for them was set before modern English evolved into what we know today so those old rules still apply. All in all, makes it a lot easier to know how to spell English plurals. Some think opctopi is the plural of octopuses, when it wouldn't be because it's Greek and not Latin anyway... To whit: the belief many have that the English plural of virus is virii, when in fact if anything it'd be afaik viri - which it isn't. The Latin word 'viri' translates as 'men', if I remember my school Latin correctly. :-) my 2c. Pete. [Authority: Platypuses, or Platypus - I believe the linguists are still out on that one - live near me ;) ] -- Liam ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Plurals in English (was Re: ClamAV reports a trojan)
On Fri, April 17, 2015 12:50 am, Peter Lawler wrote: On 17/04/15 12:31, Valeri Galtsev wrote: But being not native English speaker, I use it (not native English speaker) Figured as much, which is why I mentioned it ;) as an excuse for being unable to pronounce anything. Not as if most English speakers can pronounce many English words ... ttfn :) It is amazing how much one can cripple what another person said by scissoring his phrases ;-) Valeri Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Plurals in English (was Re: ClamAV reports a trojan)
On Fri, 2015-04-17 at 08:00 -0500, Valeri Galtsev wrote: It is amazing how much one can cripple what another person said by scissoring his phrases ;-) English people (excludes USA people) should always try to speak simple, jargon-free, easily understandable and logically expressed English especially when conversing with non-English people. I greatly admire the linguistic abilities of non-English people but deplore the dumbed-down abuses of my native language from the US of A. A military plan has become a road map even when aircraft are involved provoking the inevitable question of Do aircraft stop at traffic lights ! Back-up has become either reverse, a saved copy, re-enforcements etc. Precision in language expression is essential for good understanding. Comments off-list please. -- Regards, Paul. England, EU. Je suis Charlie. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Plurals in English (was Re: ClamAV reports a trojan)
But being not native English speaker, I use it (not native English speaker) Figured as much, which is why I mentioned it ;) as an excuse for being unable to pronounce anything. Not as if most English speakers can pronounce many English words ... ttfn :) It is amazing how much one can cripple what another person said by scissoring his phrases ;-) bugger! ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Plurals in English (was Re: ClamAV reports a trojan)
On Fri, April 17, 2015 9:51 am, Always Learning wrote: On Fri, 2015-04-17 at 08:00 -0500, Valeri Galtsev wrote: It is amazing how much one can cripple what another person said by scissoring his phrases ;-) English people (excludes USA people) The first thing I learned what US people (before became one myself) take English pronunciation for was... Well, I asked US person at the conference: does he know this person (and gave the name of English person). The answer was: that guy with accent Isn't it funny to call correct English pronunciation an accent? ;-) (adding lough track so who don't feel it's funny still can lough here taking it as a joke ;-) Valeri should always try to speak simple, jargon-free, easily understandable and logically expressed English especially when conversing with non-English people. I greatly admire the linguistic abilities of non-English people but deplore the dumbed-down abuses of my native language from the US of A. A military plan has become a road map even when aircraft are involved provoking the inevitable question of Do aircraft stop at traffic lights ! Back-up has become either reverse, a saved copy, re-enforcements etc. Precision in language expression is essential for good understanding. Comments off-list please. -- Regards, Paul. England, EU. Je suis Charlie. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Plurals in English (was Re: ClamAV reports a trojan)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 17/04/15 02:59, Peter Lawler wrote: [OT ALERT] On 17/04/15 02:28, Valeri Galtsev wrote: clamav is a scanner that is designed to detect viruses (virii I should use for plural as it is Latin word) I believe this 'rule' in English is misunderstood by many and as a general rule of thumb... tl;dr: Words from Old English that came into modern English, use 'Old English' pluralisation: eg, sheep, fish etc. words adopted from other languages into English before and after modern English established, use 'modern' pluralisation eg, tsunamis, octopuses. rant As 'virus' was adopted into English for usage in relation to bugs, malwares etc. after the formation of modern English, the plural of computer virus is computer viruses. IMO, in a medical sense, the virus was first described in the 1890 - well after the formation of modern English so even then the plural of virus in English is viruses. snip I know VAX computers are now a bit old fashioned, but why is the plural of VAX VAXen? I don't think DEC was founded before 1500 AD. :-o -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJVMXScAAoJEAF3yXsqtyBl9S4QAISUQlTW2Trlg77rVAjh2ZU2 zBOPZ32L67cD7FdpL4qpyEtAn7obqns6t2MGbvL/JElWz8ZLV9JM3kp9MsdXGYU8 iHzH4lk/7Le1p6JXWLNUM/cFLLYbnaY14HluEc/crnGaM2hEteA+1lnsE0vD8YiT 8dcaYzEtKzBbrSQOVN5R5ZAkAvGeMXbrsoDcfh3RPKRjErgzf+7Sn592Kyx5b8YL TGxB9DfmYQaOvEBLTYu9Ud6xc9Zr3ZJ0iDGq/SUyAglz+VMFv6XH4861Gma/ZKop G3C0Mo4/PhLJPQuKQMZptHqTxgbAkHr5GEcvGp9q2oBWqYc5Pdx+7SZIqgQlPxTU GB/2xOQD137e6zZVhh2cIBgRLq2F9m1auAszgXBX9Td605ykS+KD7TW8azeG+DV/ Zz4gsD+rHbOyszsvsHq+CThlMRXWz3r9UMISIRrLkUCygcmbH5/9fkqvnQVPZMg0 x0iT98UQi9bSNBdxo1PcoDH97xrJb/qNxeMKNl2uZKfa9hV5eyRTOjGUelyXX2Hm fgJCEPoS0FZ1pfBCdWGGFr78ilX/+4S6STt2dtg/HRFWqzr/Ky02hlg/Yr/VHlGv lW3wAHBTODPfQ9e9evoeuY+Nxh/OEX4l0LImHprKjxZb1yvAlF5VfyTBEwg2zPWA bcLF1WN9qL18UqcV9cw4 =UQdI -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Plurals in English (was Re: ClamAV reports a trojan)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 17/04/15 16:04, Valeri Galtsev wrote: On Fri, April 17, 2015 9:51 am, Always Learning wrote: On Fri, 2015-04-17 at 08:00 -0500, Valeri Galtsev wrote: It is amazing how much one can cripple what another person said by scissoring his phrases ;-) English people (excludes USA people) The first thing I learned what US people (before became one myself) take English pronunciation for was... Well, I asked US person at the conference: does he know this person (and gave the name of English person). The answer was: that guy with accent Isn't it funny to call correct English pronunciation an accent? ;-) (adding lough track so who don't feel it's funny still can lough here taking it as a joke ;-) Valeri snip Speaking as a Yorkshireman who has also lived on Tyneside: what is correct English pronunciation? There is probably a greater variation of accent within England than between standard English and standard American. Martin -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJVMXVGAAoJEAF3yXsqtyBl8T4QAJMzZBHE5A6Jyr1fT/zEqJg+ jej1LXWo6hcKnIR9AnNCXEsjslgGYnRmPQ5yIUHVKa9ASE1TumS8fjt5Pzbc7726 ERuCaw5lwofxG7cfHiuIOiR51V8te6uMBkFNoz/hObSbjHSPfuuII05lA7qc4EOY sbAL0MsUjvtboOdebLxH8DuNFsA8hoFGQCYPkq7AwwIyPp0i4fEjg72VS6Hc8gZm PvFuPh0AdQjjG7USnwrot6oONpE9uLSOML+F0zNOde1raQvAAdiz6SjxOKh09z8e BxdqjuCbux3q4geSVf0FigB/nutRFpvsyvhNlxWy7APl3BoHPWV8bP/rRPt/5ffH 3JHdNanZMvo4Fa0E5G3GFuZPfslVQkGOkyus0EKxOUWtXukvQe1WacnKFw3g8mnJ vi5J5oF5aPsk/HLA41RTi1nrky6f3CLo5X65KcMqlZ0YyohfDLzYATSmpieeJBHu xG4LJm/iB9C52iOaP7YKjoesTEnVCC7nqMpnLD3e5mkcAiGpwN9OLrSK9ksBJsp1 qOdeFA+MGKDiuZW0SRWCX+ZwoqKB8qQvMT+Ks+W702iZ0F0CXpadbpXMXyGTCAbS 2y7jxIrqVHXfYav3Rqv9/NwtV4j1jhjD9sHfVc8eGoIn60Duvg9vHEqQsVWsUVaP gNzKNE4kcys5mKwoFiHA =rvcE -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Plurals in English (was Re: ClamAV reports a trojan)
On 2015-04-17, J Martin Rushton martinrushto...@btinternet.com wrote: On 17/04/15 16:04, Valeri Galtsev wrote: On Fri, April 17, 2015 9:51 am, Always Learning wrote: On Fri, 2015-04-17 at 08:00 -0500, Valeri Galtsev wrote: It is amazing how much one can cripple what another person said by scissoring his phrases ;-) English people (excludes USA people) The first thing I learned what US people (before became one myself) take English pronunciation for was... Well, I asked US person at the conference: does he know this person (and gave the name of English person). The answer was: that guy with accent Isn't it funny to call correct English pronunciation an accent? ;-) (adding lough track so who don't feel it's funny still can lough here taking it as a joke ;-) Valeri snip Speaking as a Yorkshireman who has also lived on Tyneside: what is correct English pronunciation? There is probably a greater variation of accent within England than between standard English and standard American. Martin Sorry, what was that? ;-) -- Liam ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Plurals in English (was Re: ClamAV reports a trojan)
On 17/04/15 12:31, Valeri Galtsev wrote: But being not native English speaker, I use it (not native English speaker) Figured as much, which is why I mentioned it ;) as an excuse for being unable to pronounce anything. Not as if most English speakers can pronounce many English words ... ttfn :) P. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Plurals in English (was Re: ClamAV reports a trojan)
On Thu, April 16, 2015 8:59 pm, Peter Lawler wrote: [OT ALERT] On 17/04/15 02:28, Valeri Galtsev wrote: clamav is a scanner that is designed to detect viruses (virii I should use for plural as it is Latin word) I believe this 'rule' in English is misunderstood by many and as a general rule of thumb... tl;dr: Words from Old English that came into modern English, use 'Old English' pluralisation: eg, sheep, fish etc. words adopted from other languages into English before and after modern English established, use 'modern' pluralisation eg, tsunamis, octopuses. rant As 'virus' was adopted into English for usage in relation to bugs, malwares etc. after the formation of modern English, the plural of computer virus is computer viruses. IMO, in a medical sense, the virus was first described in the 1890 - well after the formation of modern English so even then the plural of virus in English is viruses. Good, my intention was just to cause a few smiles ;-) But being not native English speaker, I use it (not native English speaker) as an excuse for being unable to pronounce anything. Even names (most smiles are if the excuse is used with respect with any NOT English name, say Chinese ;-) Valeri Reasoning: If one had to learn the pluralisation of every word adopted into modern English, then an English speaker would have to learn the pluralisation rules for far more than just English (see above re tsunami, octopus but also consider other non old English words such as emoji alligator mannequin boulevard cookie umbrella alcohol nadir etc.) For old English words, the pluralisation rules for them was set before modern English evolved into what we know today so those old rules still apply. All in all, makes it a lot easier to know how to spell English plurals. Some think opctopi is the plural of octopuses, when it wouldn't be because it's Greek and not Latin anyway... To whit: the belief many have that the English plural of virus is virii, when in fact if anything it'd be afaik viri - which it isn't. my 2c. Pete. [Authority: Platypuses, or Platypus - I believe the linguists are still out on that one - live near me ;) ] ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
[CentOS] Plurals in English (was Re: ClamAV reports a trojan)
[OT ALERT] On 17/04/15 02:28, Valeri Galtsev wrote: clamav is a scanner that is designed to detect viruses (virii I should use for plural as it is Latin word) I believe this 'rule' in English is misunderstood by many and as a general rule of thumb... tl;dr: Words from Old English that came into modern English, use 'Old English' pluralisation: eg, sheep, fish etc. words adopted from other languages into English before and after modern English established, use 'modern' pluralisation eg, tsunamis, octopuses. rant As 'virus' was adopted into English for usage in relation to bugs, malwares etc. after the formation of modern English, the plural of computer virus is computer viruses. IMO, in a medical sense, the virus was first described in the 1890 - well after the formation of modern English so even then the plural of virus in English is viruses. Reasoning: If one had to learn the pluralisation of every word adopted into modern English, then an English speaker would have to learn the pluralisation rules for far more than just English (see above re tsunami, octopus but also consider other non old English words such as emoji alligator mannequin boulevard cookie umbrella alcohol nadir etc.) For old English words, the pluralisation rules for them was set before modern English evolved into what we know today so those old rules still apply. All in all, makes it a lot easier to know how to spell English plurals. Some think opctopi is the plural of octopuses, when it wouldn't be because it's Greek and not Latin anyway... To whit: the belief many have that the English plural of virus is virii, when in fact if anything it'd be afaik viri - which it isn't. my 2c. Pete. [Authority: Platypuses, or Platypus - I believe the linguists are still out on that one - live near me ;) ] ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
