Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Sat, 2011-11-12 at 09:47 -0700, Craig White wrote:
> On Sat, 2011-11-12 at 21:53 +0800, Christopher Chan wrote:
> > On Saturday, November 12, 2011 01:01 AM, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> > > Cyrus is incredibly reliable, stable and fast.  And the latest 2.4.x
> > > series closes numerous potential issues with how databases are managed.
> > Oh, so Cyrus is another 'use a database as a mail store'? The other one 
> > that I know of but cannot remember the name of uses postgresql for its 
> > mailstore.
> 
> not at all - the mailstore itself is simply flat files - essentially a
> maildir type but all within specified director[y|ies]
> There were a number of db's that traditionally were berkeley db's but
> now the recommended method, as Adam pointed out is to use skiplist.

+1 

These databases exist in parallel with the mailstore [and are why nobody
and nothing should go manually whacking around inside the mailstore; in
addition to the fact that people make casual mistakes that good
administrative tools can prevent].

These databases track a variety of attributes and meta-data related to
the mail store such as seen-state, annotations,  quota, text indexing,
etc...

> Actually though, berkeley db is used by an awful lot of daemons such as
> OpenLDAP, Netatalk and is reasonably durable and to be honest, I've been
> using Cyrus w/ berkeley db's since the early 2000's and never had a
> problem whereas there have been times when I've had to slapd_db_recover
> berkeley db's from OpenLDAP.

Same here.  I've never had a corrupt BDB in Cyrus, but I have had them
in OpenLDAP.  I've talked to numerous people who have had issues with
BDB in Cyrus.  The issue is that BDB is extremely sensitive to the
environment,  so it is hard to know when it is 'right'.  Always best,
IMO, to avoid it.

> I gather that by comparison, PostgreSQL and MySQL are considered
> comparatively much slower and never used for these servers.

True, BDB is *MUCH* faster.  But then BDB is a key-value data store, and
PostgresSQL / MySQL are relational model databases.  Really apples &
oranges.

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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Craig White]

On Sat, 2011-11-12 at 21:53 +0800, Christopher Chan wrote:
> On Saturday, November 12, 2011 01:01 AM, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

> > People with bad hardware can break anything; and you're probably talking
> > about old versions anyway [anything with indexes/databases can corrupt].
> 
> You should be right on that score...this was circa 2003/2004.
> 
> >
> > Cyrus is incredibly reliable, stable and fast.  And the latest 2.4.x
> > series closes numerous potential issues with how databases are managed.
> >
> 
> Oh, so Cyrus is another 'use a database as a mail store'? The other one 
> that I know of but cannot remember the name of uses postgresql for its 
> mailstore.

not at all - the mailstore itself is simply flat files - essentially a
maildir type but all within specified director[y|ies]

There were a number of db's that traditionally were berkeley db's but
now the recommended method, as Adam pointed out is to use skiplist. This
is what my /etc/imapd.conf (cyrus configuration) contains for db list at
this point...

annotation_db: skiplist
duplicate_db: skiplist
mboxkey_db: skiplist
mboxlist_db: skiplist
ptscache_db: skiplist
quota_db: quotalegacy
seenstate_db: skiplist
subscription_db: flat
statuscache_db: skiplist
tlscache_db: skiplist
userdeny_db: flat

Actually though, berkeley db is used by an awful lot of daemons such as
OpenLDAP, Netatalk and is reasonably durable and to be honest, I've been
using Cyrus w/ berkeley db's since the early 2000's and never had a
problem whereas there have been times when I've had to slapd_db_recover
berkeley db's from OpenLDAP.

I gather that by comparison, PostgreSQL and MySQL are considered
comparatively much slower and never used for these servers.

Craig


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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Reindl Harald]

Am 12.11.2011 14:53, schrieb Christopher Chan:
> Oh, so Cyrus is another 'use a database as a mail store'? The other one 
> that I know of but cannot remember the name of uses postgresql for its 
> mailstore.

the only REAl db-driven mailservr is dbmail and in combination
with postfix-mysql-configuration a perfect way to get a self
developed web-backend ehich does exavtly what you need

it can also use mysql with innodb

not to forget that you can use replications-slaves for consistent-backups
and even use zhem readomly as fallback for postfix-lookups

no idea why so many people complain mailservers with databases are bad
instead taking the time and look what benefits it can bring





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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Christopher Chan]

On Saturday, November 12, 2011 01:04 AM, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

> +1 The shipped packages on most distributions are a bit lame;  Simon's
> packages are the way to go.  They also provision everything as Skiplist
> [Cyrus' preferred DB format] avoiding the ugliness that is Berkley DB
> [issue with which Cyrus has take a fair amount of the blame; most
> 'corrupt Cyrus databases' are corrupt BDB databases].
>

Ah, this must be the database you referred to.
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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Christopher Chan]

On Saturday, November 12, 2011 01:01 AM, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> On Fri, 2011-11-11 at 13:23 +0800, Christopher Chan wrote:
> You don't mention a mail store [IMAP Server]?  Such as Cyrus IMAP.
> Something for Postfix to deliver the mail too.
 Mail store != imap server. Mail store = structure for mboxes/maildirs.
>>> Cyrus is sort of its own thing with its own mail store.
>> Sorry, I keep forgetting about that crap...
>> Never touched it and never wanted to after I heard the screams from a
>> friend who used cyrus and swore by it until he got corrupt mailboxes.
>> Had to help setup postfix, dovecot and vpopmail iirc.
>
> People with bad hardware can break anything; and you're probably talking
> about old versions anyway [anything with indexes/databases can corrupt].

You should be right on that score...this was circa 2003/2004.

>
> Cyrus is incredibly reliable, stable and fast.  And the latest 2.4.x
> series closes numerous potential issues with how databases are managed.
>

Oh, so Cyrus is another 'use a database as a mail store'? The other one 
that I know of but cannot remember the name of uses postgresql for its 
mailstore.
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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Thu, 2011-11-10 at 23:13 -0700, Craig White wrote:
> > > 
> > > been using cyrus-imapd for years - eats dovecot for lunch in terms of
> > > features/performance/reliability/scaling/flexibility and just about
> > > every other imaginable use for an IMAP server.
> > Hmm, I must give it a try one day then since it comes with RHEL/Centos.
> 
> I should mention that even though RHEL (Fedora/CentOS/SL/etc.) uses the
> invoca.ch packages but they are older and never have the 'autocreate'
> patches.
> I heavily recommend that you get the SRPM from invoca.ch directly (Simon
> - who I believe monitors this list) and rebuild (dead simple)
> http://www.invoca.ch/pub/packages/cyrus-imapd/
> The 'autocreate' patches are awesome. Here is info on what they do (and
> the patch code itself).
> http://www.vx.sk/download/patches/cyrus-imapd/cyrus-imapd-2.4.4-autocreate-0.10-0.patch
> but if you use Simon's packages, the autocreate patch is already
> included (no fuss, no muss).
> Autocreate INBOX and subfolders on first LOGIN, first POST, auto 'sieve'
> rules and auto subscribe to various folders including 'shared' or
> 'public' folders

+1 The shipped packages on most distributions are a bit lame;  Simon's
packages are the way to go.  They also provision everything as Skiplist
[Cyrus' preferred DB format] avoiding the ugliness that is Berkley DB
[issue with which Cyrus has take a fair amount of the blame; most
'corrupt Cyrus databases' are corrupt BDB databases].

Delayed expunge, message expiration, full-text indexing, mod-sequence
support, etc...  Cyrus' feature set is very robust. 


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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Fri, 2011-11-11 at 13:23 +0800, Christopher Chan wrote:   
> >>> You don't mention a mail store [IMAP Server]?  Such as Cyrus IMAP.
> >>> Something for Postfix to deliver the mail too.
> >> Mail store != imap server. Mail store = structure for mboxes/maildirs. 
> > Cyrus is sort of its own thing with its own mail store.
> Sorry, I keep forgetting about that crap...
> Never touched it and never wanted to after I heard the screams from a 
> friend who used cyrus and swore by it until he got corrupt mailboxes. 
> Had to help setup postfix, dovecot and vpopmail iirc.

People with bad hardware can break anything; and you're probably talking
about old versions anyway [anything with indexes/databases can corrupt].

Cyrus is incredibly reliable, stable and fast.  And the latest 2.4.x
series closes numerous potential issues with how databases are managed.

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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Les Mikesell]

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 9:11 AM, Craig White  wrote:
>
>> Have you looked at the ClearOS implementation which should come up
>> running out of the box connected to an LDAP user base?
> 
> No but configuring cyrus-imapd & postfix for LDAP is trivial. In fact, once 
> you get clued in to LDAP, you really don't want to go back to other 
> auth/identity mechanisms

I thought the last time you mentioned LDAP you said it was non-trivial
to configure and had to be special-cased for every situation.  Hence
my interest in on that works out of the box.   I'd be interested in
your comparison to a hand-tuned version if you ever have time to look
at it.

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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Craig White]

On Nov 11, 2011, at 6:24 AM, Les Mikesell wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 12:13 AM, Craig White  wrote:
>> On Fri, 2011-11-11 at 13:38 +0800, Christopher Chan wrote:
> 
 been using cyrus-imapd for years - eats dovecot for lunch in terms of
 features/performance/reliability/scaling/flexibility and just about
 every other imaginable use for an IMAP server.
 
>>> 
>>> Hmm, I must give it a try one day then since it comes with RHEL/Centos.
>> 
>> I should mention that even though RHEL (Fedora/CentOS/SL/etc.) uses the
>> invoca.ch packages but they are older and never have the 'autocreate'
>> patches.
>> 
> 
> Have you looked at the ClearOS implementation which should come up
> running out of the box connected to an LDAP user base?

No but configuring cyrus-imapd & postfix for LDAP is trivial. In fact, once you 
get clued in to LDAP, you really don't want to go back to other auth/identity 
mechanisms

Craig
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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Les Mikesell]

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 12:13 AM, Craig White  wrote:
> On Fri, 2011-11-11 at 13:38 +0800, Christopher Chan wrote:

>> > been using cyrus-imapd for years - eats dovecot for lunch in terms of
>> > features/performance/reliability/scaling/flexibility and just about
>> > every other imaginable use for an IMAP server.
>> >
>>
>> Hmm, I must give it a try one day then since it comes with RHEL/Centos.
> 
> I should mention that even though RHEL (Fedora/CentOS/SL/etc.) uses the
> invoca.ch packages but they are older and never have the 'autocreate'
> patches.
>

Have you looked at the ClearOS implementation which should come up
running out of the box connected to an LDAP user base?

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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Craig White]

On Fri, 2011-11-11 at 13:38 +0800, Christopher Chan wrote:
> On Friday, November 11, 2011 01:28 PM, Craig White wrote:
> > On Fri, 2011-11-11 at 13:23 +0800, Christopher Chan wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Sorry, I keep forgetting about that crap...
> >>
> >> Never touched it and never wanted to after I heard the screams from a
> >> friend who used cyrus and swore by it until he got corrupt mailboxes.
> >> Had to help setup postfix, dovecot and vpopmail iirc.
> >>  
> > 
> > been using cyrus-imapd for years - eats dovecot for lunch in terms of
> > features/performance/reliability/scaling/flexibility and just about
> > every other imaginable use for an IMAP server.
> >
> 
> Hmm, I must give it a try one day then since it comes with RHEL/Centos.

I should mention that even though RHEL (Fedora/CentOS/SL/etc.) uses the
invoca.ch packages but they are older and never have the 'autocreate'
patches.

I heavily recommend that you get the SRPM from invoca.ch directly (Simon
- who I believe monitors this list) and rebuild (dead simple)

http://www.invoca.ch/pub/packages/cyrus-imapd/

The 'autocreate' patches are awesome. Here is info on what they do (and
the patch code itself).

http://www.vx.sk/download/patches/cyrus-imapd/cyrus-imapd-2.4.4-autocreate-0.10-0.patch

but if you use Simon's packages, the autocreate patch is already
included (no fuss, no muss).

Autocreate INBOX and subfolders on first LOGIN, first POST, auto 'sieve'
rules and auto subscribe to various folders including 'shared' or
'public' folders

Craig


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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Craig White]

On Fri, 2011-11-11 at 13:40 +0800, Christopher Chan wrote:
> On Friday, November 11, 2011 01:31 PM, Craig White wrote:

> > LMTP
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Mail_Transfer_Protocol
> >
> >
> 
> That's still nothing to do with imap/pop3 servers. dovecot provides an 
> LDA for just that purpose but it is separate from dovecot's imap/pop3 
> servers.

root@srv2:~# grep lmtp /etc/postfix/main.cf | grep -v '#'
mailbox_transport = lmtp:unix:/var/lib/imap/socket/lmtp

postfix will use it (perhaps because I use cyrus) and cyrus (like some
dovecot installs) uses sieve.

Craig


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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Christopher Chan]

On Friday, November 11, 2011 01:31 PM, Craig White wrote:
> On Thu, 2011-11-10 at 21:12 -0800, John R Pierce wrote:
>
>> On 11/10/11 4:48 PM, Christopher Chan wrote:
>>  
 You don't mention a mail store [IMAP Server]?  Such as Cyrus IMAP.
  
>   Something for Postfix to deliver the mail too.
>
>
>>> Mail store != imap server. Mail store = structure for mboxes/maildirs.
>>>
>> indeed, reader protocol servers like imap, pop3, are a seperate category
>> from the traditional MTA, MDA, MUA triad.   in a sense, they are a MUA
>> proxy or service, but they aren't the MUA, thats the client application
>> (Thunderbird, etc).   In spite of some claims to the contrary[1], they
>> aren't the MDA, thats something like procmail which the MTA uses to
>> deliver the mail to a mailbox.
>>
>>
>>
>> [1] first google hit on related keywords claimed imap/pop were part of
>> the MDA.
>>  
> 
> LMTP
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Mail_Transfer_Protocol
>
>

That's still nothing to do with imap/pop3 servers. dovecot provides an 
LDA for just that purpose but it is separate from dovecot's imap/pop3 
servers.
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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Christopher Chan]

On Friday, November 11, 2011 01:28 PM, Craig White wrote:
> On Fri, 2011-11-11 at 13:23 +0800, Christopher Chan wrote:
>
>
>> Sorry, I keep forgetting about that crap...
>>
>> Never touched it and never wanted to after I heard the screams from a
>> friend who used cyrus and swore by it until he got corrupt mailboxes.
>> Had to help setup postfix, dovecot and vpopmail iirc.
>>  
> 
> been using cyrus-imapd for years - eats dovecot for lunch in terms of
> features/performance/reliability/scaling/flexibility and just about
> every other imaginable use for an IMAP server.
>

Hmm, I must give it a try one day then since it comes with RHEL/Centos.

> Might have thought it would be useful to have some firsthand experience
> before you labeled something as crap.
>

True.
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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Craig White]

On Thu, 2011-11-10 at 21:12 -0800, John R Pierce wrote:
> On 11/10/11 4:48 PM, Christopher Chan wrote:
> >> You don't mention a mail store [IMAP Server]?  Such as Cyrus IMAP.
> >> >  Something for Postfix to deliver the mail too.
> >> >  
> > Mail store != imap server. Mail store = structure for mboxes/maildirs.
> 
> indeed, reader protocol servers like imap, pop3, are a seperate category 
> from the traditional MTA, MDA, MUA triad.   in a sense, they are a MUA 
> proxy or service, but they aren't the MUA, thats the client application 
> (Thunderbird, etc).   In spite of some claims to the contrary[1], they 
> aren't the MDA, thats something like procmail which the MTA uses to 
> deliver the mail to a mailbox.
> 
> 
> 
> [1] first google hit on related keywords claimed imap/pop were part of 
> the MDA.

LMTP

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Mail_Transfer_Protocol

Craig


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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Craig White]

On Fri, 2011-11-11 at 13:23 +0800, Christopher Chan wrote:

> Sorry, I keep forgetting about that crap...
> 
> Never touched it and never wanted to after I heard the screams from a 
> friend who used cyrus and swore by it until he got corrupt mailboxes. 
> Had to help setup postfix, dovecot and vpopmail iirc.

been using cyrus-imapd for years - eats dovecot for lunch in terms of
features/performance/reliability/scaling/flexibility and just about
every other imaginable use for an IMAP server.

Might have thought it would be useful to have some firsthand experience
before you labeled something as crap.

Craig


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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Les Mikesell]

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 11:23 PM, Christopher Chan
 wrote:
>>

>>> Mail store != imap server. Mail store = structure for mboxes/maildirs.
>>>
>>>
>> Cyrus is sort of its own thing with its own mail store.
>>
>
> Sorry, I keep forgetting about that crap...
>
> Never touched it and never wanted to after I heard the screams from a
> friend who used cyrus and swore by it until he got corrupt mailboxes.
> Had to help setup postfix, dovecot and vpopmail iirc.

Some people (or unreliable hardware...) can break anything.  There are
some very large and apparently successful cyrus installations. Until
dovecot started optimistically indexing it wasn't particularly good in
large systems.

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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Christopher Chan]

On Friday, November 11, 2011 01:00 PM, Les Mikesell wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 6:48 PM, Christopher Chan
>   wrote:
>
>>  
>>> For CLAMAV you need to have clamd running and a milter.  I'm not certain
>>> what milter's are current - when I set one up they were all had equally
>>> stale documentation.  Does CentOS currently ship a working clamav
>>> milter?
>>>
>>>
>> RHEL/Centos ships zero milters...
>>  
> Rpmforge has MimeDefang and clamav packages.   Not sure how hard it is
> to adapt MimeDefang to postscript but I think it is possible these
> days.
>
>
>>> You don't mention a mail store [IMAP Server]?  Such as Cyrus IMAP.
>>> Something for Postfix to deliver the mail too.
>>>
>>>
>> Mail store != imap server. Mail store = structure for mboxes/maildirs.
>>
>>  
> Cyrus is sort of its own thing with its own mail store.
>

Sorry, I keep forgetting about that crap...

Never touched it and never wanted to after I heard the screams from a 
friend who used cyrus and swore by it until he got corrupt mailboxes. 
Had to help setup postfix, dovecot and vpopmail iirc.
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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[John R Pierce]

On 11/10/11 4:48 PM, Christopher Chan wrote:
>> You don't mention a mail store [IMAP Server]?  Such as Cyrus IMAP.
>> >  Something for Postfix to deliver the mail too.
>> >  
> Mail store != imap server. Mail store = structure for mboxes/maildirs.

indeed, reader protocol servers like imap, pop3, are a seperate category 
from the traditional MTA, MDA, MUA triad.   in a sense, they are a MUA 
proxy or service, but they aren't the MUA, thats the client application 
(Thunderbird, etc).   In spite of some claims to the contrary[1], they 
aren't the MDA, thats something like procmail which the MTA uses to 
deliver the mail to a mailbox.



[1] first google hit on related keywords claimed imap/pop were part of 
the MDA.

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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Les Mikesell]

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 6:48 PM, Christopher Chan
 wrote:
>
>> For CLAMAV you need to have clamd running and a milter.  I'm not certain
>> what milter's are current - when I set one up they were all had equally
>> stale documentation.  Does CentOS currently ship a working clamav
>> milter?
>>
>
> RHEL/Centos ships zero milters...

Rpmforge has MimeDefang and clamav packages.   Not sure how hard it is
to adapt MimeDefang to postscript but I think it is possible these
days.

>> You don't mention a mail store [IMAP Server]?  Such as Cyrus IMAP.
>> Something for Postfix to deliver the mail too.
>>
>
> Mail store != imap server. Mail store = structure for mboxes/maildirs.
>

Cyrus is sort of its own thing with its own mail store.

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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Christopher Chan]

On Wednesday, November 09, 2011 07:23 PM, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> On Wed, 2011-11-09 at 01:10 -0500, Jonathan Vomacka wrote:
>
>> CentOS Community
>> I was wondering if anyone had a good resource or procedure for a step by
>> step in installing a mail server with Centos. There ARE documents on
>> google, however almost all that i've found were outdated from 2005. Does
>> anyone know where I can find this type of document for a mailserver
>> Postfix + MySQL + SpamAssassin + ClamAV + Squirrelmail + Postfixadmin, etc?
>>  
> MySQL has nothing to do with mail.  If you can avoid using it - avoid
> it. The just-throw-everything-in-mysql approach to life has never made
> sense to me.
>

Maybe it does not have to but it sure is a wonderful part of a system 
when you host thousands or millions even of mailboxes and want to be 
able to run server farms/clusters that can lookup a shared userinfo 
database. Don't bother giving me crap about generating Berkerly DB files 
every fifteen minutes. Don't bother pointing to ldap too because by your 
definition for mysql, ldap has nothing to with mail too.

> For CLAMAV you need to have clamd running and a milter.  I'm not certain
> what milter's are current - when I set one up they were all had equally
> stale documentation.  Does CentOS currently ship a working clamav
> milter?
>

RHEL/Centos ships zero milters...

> I have no idea what Postfixadmin is;  I've never seen much point in an
> MTA admin tool.  And MTA is pretty much setup and let it run.
>

Yeah, for a small setup. And it is not an MTA admin tool. It is a 
userinfo admin tool. When you want shared userinfo databases for an MTA 
like postfix/sendmail/qmail/exim, you tend to use mysql or postgresql.

> Squirelmail is an application; just use their documentation [although
> I'd recommend Horde over Squirrel].
>

Yes, horde + sieve + dovecot + dovecot sieve extension is kinda handy 
for generating filter recipes. Who needs crap like maildrop or procmail 
when dovecot provides the lda, the pop/imap servers and the glue between 
postfix and the userinfo db?

> You don't mention a mail store [IMAP Server]?  Such as Cyrus IMAP.
> Something for Postfix to deliver the mail too.
>

Mail store != imap server. Mail store = structure for mboxes/maildirs.

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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Bowie Bailey]

On 11/9/2011 6:23 AM, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> SPAMAssasin is a monster and the documentation is *BAD*.  But I've
> gotten it working.  Just post specific questions.

SpamAssassin is not THAT bad.  There is a fair amount of info out there
on how to integrate it with various mail servers. 
(http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/IntegratingSA).  The SpamAssassin
mailing list is also quite helpful.

-- 
Bowie
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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Simon Slater]

On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 20:33:23 Patrick Lists wrote:
> On 11/09/2011 10:10 AM, Marius Vaitiekunas wrote:
> > Hi,
> > Maybe, somebody could recommend any good books about complete mail
> > server open source solution? Sorry for OT.
> 
> I found the "Postfix: the Definitive Guide" book by Kyle D. Dent very
> useful to learn about Postfix. There is also "The Book of Postfix" by
> Ralf Hildebrandt and Patrick Koetter. Do a search on Amazon to find more
> references to Postfix.
> 
> Regards,
> Patrick

+1 for K D Dent's book.  I had a working mail setup (fetchmail - postfix - 
dovecot) from scratch in less time than I thought, having no previous 
experience at all with mail systems.  Still have more to add on yet.

"Essential System Admin" by Aeleen Frisch gives a good overview, explanation 
of the stages or steps of mail systems, giving suggestions to appropriate 
software without confining itself to details of  any one in particular.  I 
found O'Reilly's e-book format very convenient to obtain.  Delivery of books 
can take a while.

-- 
Simon Slater
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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[David C. Miller]

- Original Message -
> From: "Jonathan Vomacka" 
> To: centos@centos.org
> Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2011 10:10:28 PM
> Subject: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure
> 
> CentOS Community,
> 
> I was wondering if anyone had a good resource or procedure for a step
> by
> step in installing a mail server with Centos. There ARE documents on
> google, however almost all that i've found were outdated from 2005.
> Does
> anyone know where I can find this type of document for a mailserver
> Postfix + MySQL + SpamAssassin + ClamAV + Squirrelmail +
> Postfixadmin, etc?


Save yourself from the headache of setting all this up and just use the open 
source version of Zimbra. It installs very cleanly on CentOS.

http://www.zimbra.com/downloads/os-downloads.html

David.
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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Mike Burger]

> On 11/08/11 10:10 PM, Jonathan Vomacka wrote:

> squirrelmail is not actually a mail server, its a web based mail
> reader.   its also not a standard part of the centos distribution.  see
> http://squirrelmail.org/

You sure about that? I've got a CentOS 5.6 system that I'm in the process
of standing up, and installed Squirrelmail from the install media.
-- 
Mike Burger
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telnet://dogpound2.citadel.org or http://dogpound2.citadel.org

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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Jussi Hirvi]

On 9.11.2011 14.04, Jussi Hirvi wrote:
> Looks like there is no similar "dual" setup for postfix. This postfix
> tutorial does not look bad:
>
> http://www.wowtutorial.org/tutorial/169.html

Uh, now I read some more of this thread and saw some (other) bad 
tutorials. This one is not so good either:

> Install Amavisd-new
>
> #cd /usr/ports/security/amavisd-new
> #make config
> #make install clean

No need for that, when you can do "yum install amavisd-new"! So please 
ignore "wowtutorial". :-)

- Jussi

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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Jussi Hirvi]

On 9.11.2011 13.23, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> For CLAMAV you need to have clamd running and a milter.  I'm not certain
> what milter's are current - when I set one up they were all had equally
> stale documentation.  Does CentOS currently ship a working clamav
> milter?

Hope this is relevant. I use a "dual Sendmail" setup with and 
amavisd-new - no milter at all, except greylist. The incoming mail is 
first processed by sendmail, then sent to amavisd-new on port 10024. 
Amavis handles spamassassin and clamd calls (and in my case, also 
f-secure virus checks as a backup) and returns the email (port 10025) to 
*another* sendmail instance, which then either sends the mail or files 
it in a local inbox.

http://www.ijs.si/software/amavisd/README.sendmail-dual.txt

Looks like there is no similar "dual" setup for postfix. This postfix 
tutorial does not look bad:

http://www.wowtutorial.org/tutorial/169.html

- Jussi
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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Wed, 2011-11-09 at 01:10 -0500, Jonathan Vomacka wrote:
> CentOS Community
> I was wondering if anyone had a good resource or procedure for a step by 
> step in installing a mail server with Centos. There ARE documents on 
> google, however almost all that i've found were outdated from 2005. Does 
> anyone know where I can find this type of document for a mailserver 
> Postfix + MySQL + SpamAssassin + ClamAV + Squirrelmail + Postfixadmin, etc?

MySQL has nothing to do with mail.  If you can avoid using it - avoid
it. The just-throw-everything-in-mysql approach to life has never made
sense to me.

For CLAMAV you need to have clamd running and a milter.  I'm not certain
what milter's are current - when I set one up they were all had equally
stale documentation.  Does CentOS currently ship a working clamav
milter?

SPAMAssasin is a monster and the documentation is *BAD*.  But I've
gotten it working.  Just post specific questions.

Postfix is pretty straight-forward and the project documentation useful
once you get used to its odd/unfriendly structure.  There are numerous
books about Postfix - do any of these do a better job at a drive
through?

I have no idea what Postfixadmin is;  I've never seen much point in an
MTA admin tool.  And MTA is pretty much setup and let it run.

Squirelmail is an application; just use their documentation [although
I'd recommend Horde over Squirrel].

You don't mention a mail store [IMAP Server]?  Such as Cyrus IMAP.
Something for Postfix to deliver the mail too.

I have a document "WMOGAG" that has chapters on Cyrus and Postfix.  It
certainly isn't exhaustive, but it covers the stuff I've run into.  More
about Cyrus than Postfix.  You might find it useful - and feedback is
appreciated.


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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Wed, 2011-11-09 at 02:58 -0600, John R. Dennison wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 09, 2011 at 09:46:51AM +0100, Alexander Dalloz wrote:
> > Am 09.11.2011 07:19, schrieb Leon Jacobs
> > A strong NO!
> Emphatically seconded.

+1

Especially since CentOS 6 gives you pretty recent versions of
everything.

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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Les Bell]

Alain Péan  wrote:

>>
These two links, even if I read them rapidly, seem more accurate :
http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/postfix
http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/Amavisd
<<

A few years ago, I followed the Postfix/amavisd/spamassassin/ClamAV HOWTO
on the Centos Wiki and had two inbound mail gateways set up in next to no
time with no pain*.

http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos#head-0facb50d5796bee0bd394636c32ffa9a997a6ab5

and especiallly

http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/Amavisd

Best,

--- Les Bell
[http://www.lesbell.com.au]
Tel: +61 2 9451 1144

* Oh, all right - there was some SELinux pain, as always, but a few minutes
with audit2allow got the policy tweaked.


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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Patrick Lists]

On 11/09/2011 10:10 AM, Marius Vaitiekunas wrote:
> Hi,
> Maybe, somebody could recommend any good books about complete mail
> server open source solution? Sorry for OT.

I found the "Postfix: the Definitive Guide" book by Kyle D. Dent very 
useful to learn about Postfix. There is also "The Book of Postfix" by 
Ralf Hildebrandt and Patrick Koetter. Do a search on Amazon to find more 
references to Postfix.

Regards,
Patrick
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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Alain Péan]

Le 09/11/2011 10:02, Leon Jacobs a écrit :
> On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 10:58 AM, John R. Dennison  wrote:
>> On Wed, Nov 09, 2011 at 09:46:51AM +0100, Alexander Dalloz wrote:
>>> Am 09.11.2011 07:19, schrieb Leon Jacobs:
>>>
>>> A strong NO!
>> Emphatically seconded.
> Forgetting to add "A quick google came up with..." and not reading the
> article, ill take the slap in the face this time.>.<
>

These two links, even if I read them rapidly, seem more accurate :
http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/postfix
http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/Amavisd

Alain

-- 
==
Alain Péan - LPP/CNRS
Administrateur Système/Réseau
Laboratoire de Physique des Plasmas - UMR 7648
Observatoire de Saint-Maur
4, av de Neptune, Bat. A
94100 Saint-Maur des Fossés
Tel : 01-45-11-42-39 - Fax : 01-48-89-44-33
==

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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Marius Vaitiekunas]

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 8:10 AM, Jonathan Vomacka  wrote:
> CentOS Community,
>
> I was wondering if anyone had a good resource or procedure for a step by
> step in installing a mail server with Centos. There ARE documents on
> google, however almost all that i've found were outdated from 2005. Does
> anyone know where I can find this type of document for a mailserver
> Postfix + MySQL + SpamAssassin + ClamAV + Squirrelmail + Postfixadmin, etc?
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Hi,
Maybe, somebody could recommend any good books about complete mail
server open source solution? Sorry for OT.
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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Leon Jacobs]

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 10:58 AM, John R. Dennison  wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 09, 2011 at 09:46:51AM +0100, Alexander Dalloz wrote:
>> Am 09.11.2011 07:19, schrieb Leon Jacobs:
>>
>> A strong NO!
>
> Emphatically seconded.

Forgetting to add "A quick google came up with..." and not reading the
article, ill take the slap in the face this time. >.<
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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[John R. Dennison]

On Wed, Nov 09, 2011 at 09:46:51AM +0100, Alexander Dalloz wrote:
> Am 09.11.2011 07:19, schrieb Leon Jacobs:
>
> A strong NO!

Emphatically seconded.

> That "howto" tinstructs to run through source installs on CentOS. A
> really bad habit. Even completeley unnecessary.

Most of the howto's I've seen from howtoscrewupaperfectlygoodserverforge.com
should be avoided like an STD; this one is a perfect example.  Any
"howto" that advocates disabling selinux was written by someone that is
either incompetent or just plain lazy; either quality is undesired in an
admin.

It would be in the best interests of all parties if such "howto"
articles from howtoforge.com were avoided here in the future.



John
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-- Jay Leno


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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Alexander Dalloz]

Am 09.11.2011 07:19, schrieb Leon Jacobs:

> http://www.howtoforge.com/virtual-users-and-domains-with-postfix-courier-mysql-and-squirrelmail-centos-6.0-x86_64

A strong NO!

That "howto" tinstructs to run through source installs on CentOS. A 
really bad habit. Even completeley unnecessary.

And nobody wants courier imap any longer as it is simply slow compared 
to dovecot or cyrus-imapd.

Alexander
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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Christopher Chan]

On Wednesday, November 09, 2011 02:36 PM, John R Pierce wrote:
> On 11/08/11 10:10 PM, Jonathan Vomacka wrote:
>
>> I was wondering if anyone had a good resource or procedure for a step by
>> step in installing a mail server with Centos. There ARE documents on
>> google, however almost all that i've found were outdated from 2005. Does
>> anyone know where I can find this type of document for a mailserver
>> Postfix + MySQL + SpamAssassin + ClamAV + Squirrelmail + Postfixadmin, etc?
>>  
> http://docs.redhat.com/docs/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/6/html/Deployment_Guide/ch-Mail_Servers.html
> is as good a place to start as any.
>
> not sure why mysql has to do with email servers  yes, I know, you
> _can_ configure email servers to use SQL databases as the message
> stores, but I really don't think you _should_ do that, it just adds more
> overhead.
>
It's not for storing messages, it's for the 
userinfo/mailstoremetadata/whateveryoucallit. There is only one other 
experiment that I know of in using a database for mail storage besides 
Exchange...like you say...just adds more overhead,points of failure.



> you left out an important part of a mail server, which is a mail user
> agent such as dovecot or cyrus, these provide the POP and IMAP protocols
> that a user mail client such as Thunderbird need to read the mail.   the
> basics of setting these up should be covered in the redhat doc above.
>
>

People still use Sam's stuff?!?
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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[John R Pierce]

On 11/08/11 10:10 PM, Jonathan Vomacka wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone had a good resource or procedure for a step by
> step in installing a mail server with Centos. There ARE documents on
> google, however almost all that i've found were outdated from 2005. Does
> anyone know where I can find this type of document for a mailserver
> Postfix + MySQL + SpamAssassin + ClamAV + Squirrelmail + Postfixadmin, etc?

http://docs.redhat.com/docs/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/6/html/Deployment_Guide/ch-Mail_Servers.html
  
is as good a place to start as any.

not sure why mysql has to do with email servers  yes, I know, you 
_can_ configure email servers to use SQL databases as the message 
stores, but I really don't think you _should_ do that, it just adds more 
overhead.

spamassassin has its own documentation, and frankly, its a big complex 
set of tools, there's no one 'right' way to set it up, as spam is a big 
complex problem.   each mail administrator will have to weigh the pros 
and cons of the various options and how acceptible they are to his 
environment.  docs are here, http://spamassassin.apache.org/doc.html

squirrelmail is not actually a mail server, its a web based mail 
reader.   its also not a standard part of the centos distribution.  see 
http://squirrelmail.org/

postfixadmin, I dunno, never used it.  I don't believe its supplied by 
CentOS, but its probably available from various third parties...  I 
manage my mail servers with shell tools.

you left out an important part of a mail server, which is a mail user 
agent such as dovecot or cyrus, these provide the POP and IMAP protocols 
that a user mail client such as Thunderbird need to read the mail.   the 
basics of setting these up should be covered in the redhat doc above.




-- 
john r pierceN 37, W 122
santa cruz ca mid-left coast

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Re: [CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Leon Jacobs]

http://www.howtoforge.com/virtual-users-and-domains-with-postfix-courier-mysql-and-squirrelmail-centos-6.0-x86_64

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 8:10 AM, Jonathan Vomacka  wrote:
> CentOS Community,
>
> I was wondering if anyone had a good resource or procedure for a step by
> step in installing a mail server with Centos. There ARE documents on
> google, however almost all that i've found were outdated from 2005. Does
> anyone know where I can find this type of document for a mailserver
> Postfix + MySQL + SpamAssassin + ClamAV + Squirrelmail + Postfixadmin, etc?
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[CentOS] Postfix mail server procedure

[Jonathan Vomacka]

CentOS Community,

I was wondering if anyone had a good resource or procedure for a step by 
step in installing a mail server with Centos. There ARE documents on 
google, however almost all that i've found were outdated from 2005. Does 
anyone know where I can find this type of document for a mailserver 
Postfix + MySQL + SpamAssassin + ClamAV + Squirrelmail + Postfixadmin, etc?
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