[CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
on 9-2-2008 1:44 PM MHR spake the following: On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 12:26 PM, Scott Silva wrote: I remember when 1 GB *hard* drives didn't exist! I still have a few - a 20MB Tulin TL225 that was HUGE when it first came out, and a couple of Seagates, one is 120MB and one is 512MB. Oh, and I almost forgot my Priam 780 FULL height 320MB drive, and I think I may have a couple of Maxtor 140MB drives, too. I also have a pile of five or six 4-8GB hard drives. I should be putting these up for auction on eBay in the not too distant future - they all work, but they take up a fair amount of space. Feel free to look aorund and buy, if you like dinosaurs, doorstops and other old stuff ;^) mhr I still have a pair of 40 MB MFM half-height 5.25" drives in the garage somewhere. I don't think I have an interface card even if I cared what was on them. Probably DOS 3.3 and Wordperfect 5 and some old college papers. -- MailScanner is like deodorant... You hope everybody uses it, and you notice quickly if they don't signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 4:11 PM, Scott Silva <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > on 9-2-2008 1:44 PM MHR spake the following: > > I still have a pair of 40 MB MFM half-height 5.25" drives in the garage > somewhere. I don't think I have an interface card even if I cared what was > on them. Probably DOS 3.3 and Wordperfect 5 and some old college papers. > I have a 286-based system (might be 386 - not sure) that ran last time I turned it on, and it has my ST506 MFM controller in it with a full height Maxtor 140MB drive in it running DOS 3.3 (I think). I don't think I've turned it on in the last ten years or so - can't remember. Wait - I've got a better one! Way back in 1981, I bought a Commodore 64 with disk drive and everything, and my wife used it for a while to write a bunch of stuff, which we saved onto floppy. We wound up taking the thing back because there was a really nasty bug in the 64's OS (or something) that would kill the machine and lose all data under certain, not too hard to reproduce, circumstances. In 2002, after much pleading from the other half, I got a 1541 disk drive and a PC <-> 1541 data transfer cable from a gent in Hungary (who makes them, relatively cheap) and restored ALL those files from the C-64 onto my Win 98 PC. It was instructive, amusing, and I'll never (have to) do that again! Unless someone needs some old C-64 files recovered, for a fee, of course Uh oh, my fingers are seizing up - yeaaargh! ;^) mhr ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Wed, Sep 03, 2008 at 10:11:26PM -0400, Ric Moore wrote: > > On Wed, 2008-09-03 at 09:38 -0700, Bill Campbell wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 03, 2008, Ric Moore wrote: > > > > > >On Tue, 2008-09-02 at 11:19 -0700, John R Pierce wrote: > > >> >> For shame! WfW was 3.11, > > >> >> > > >> > > > >> > 3.1.1, IIRC > > >> > > > >> > > >> actually, there was a 3.10 and 3.11 release of Windows for Workgroups. > > >> The 3.11 release introduced the use of 32 bit protected mode > > >> implementation of the network stack and file system via extensive use of > > >> VxD drivers, and set the stage for Windows95 where almost the whole OS > > >> kernel ran in VxD space (prior versions used 16bit realmode IO > > >> components from MSDOS). > > > > > >Anyone ever see wabi running win3.1 under Linux?? THAT was a show > > >stopper. It came with Caldera's releases. Mighty nifty it was. Ric > > > > I don't think I ever ran Wabi on Caldera, but did on SCO > > OpenServer 5.0.x. > > > > Whatcha doin' over here Ric? Normally I see you on the linux-sxs list. > > I fled my harsh mistress Fedora! It's not a platform to try and do devel > work on, or as a server. I need the quiet sedate life where things work > today like they did yesterday. I'll certainly live longer. No > clue how, why or who, but Xvfb refused to work with F7 and with CentOS > it works like a charm, out of the box, with java.net's Wonderland > program. No clue why, but if it breaks in the future, I'll know where > upstream it came from. Ric Welcome to CentOS-land, Ric! -- Fred Smith -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] - I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. -- Philippians 4:13 --- pgpVgkNoLLL9L.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Thu, 2008-09-04 at 03:36 +0100, Karanbir Singh wrote: > Ric Moore wrote: > > Nice! Let me know when you clean out your garage! Remember Irv Hoff?? > > Imp? Best little telecom program ever written. > > Do you think this conversation might have lost context on the CentOS > list ? I am sure there is much amusement to be had catching up with a > lot of this, but might I suggest you do this in private email rather > than here on this list ? You can suggest all you like. :) Have a nice day. Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: "There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 Sign up at: http://counter.li.org/ https://nuoar.dev.java.net/ Verizon Cell # 336-254-1339 ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
Ric Moore wrote: Nice! Let me know when you clean out your garage! Remember Irv Hoff?? Imp? Best little telecom program ever written. Do you think this conversation might have lost context on the CentOS list ? I am sure there is much amusement to be had catching up with a lot of this, but might I suggest you do this in private email rather than here on this list ? Thanks. -- Karanbir Singh : http://www.karan.org/ : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Wed, 2008-09-03 at 00:37 -0700, John R Pierce wrote: > Ric Moore wrote: > > On Tue, 2008-09-02 at 09:32 -0700, John R Pierce wrote: > >> lets play "Name that old computer!" > >> > >> http://hogranch.com/digital.research/My_office_upstairs_at_734_Lighthouse.jpg > >> > >> (my office circa 1979) > >> > > I spy with my little eye a televideo 803 terminal, and what looks like a > > hazeltine terminal, but the one at the chair with the square front I > > don't recognize. The blue one, an IMSAI 8080? Under it DEC? To the far > > left a televideo 1603? How many points do I get? :) Ric > > > > > > the far right bottom beige unit is a Cromemco System Three beast, and > the blue box above it is an Intel MDS800 > > the "terminal" on top of the Vector MZ in the middle background was just > a crt+keyboard, attached to said Vector MZ's internal video card > > I'm pretty sure the big square terminal in the middle foreground behind > the phone is a Soroc (anagram for Coors) > > The terminal on the table to the left was a Televideo, I dont remember > the number, and the computer next to it is a early sample of a Tarbell > S100 system. > > All of these ran CP/M-80, as I was working at Digital Research on CP/M > innards. Most of them had the max 64kbyte memory their 2 or 4Mhz 8 bit > CPUs could address, and 2 or 4 diskette drives that held anywhere from Nice! Let me know when you clean out your garage! Remember Irv Hoff?? Imp? Best little telecom program ever written. I decided, out of the blue, to call him and thank him for his work. He was dying of cancer, he said, and what was really sad was that he said no one had called him for quite a while. I got his home number out of some of his docs. A few weeks later, he died. He did a bunch of good, died by himself. Sad. Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: "There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 Sign up at: http://counter.li.org/ https://nuoar.dev.java.net/ Verizon Cell # 336-254-1339 ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Wed, 2008-09-03 at 09:38 -0700, Bill Campbell wrote: > On Wed, Sep 03, 2008, Ric Moore wrote: > > > >On Tue, 2008-09-02 at 11:19 -0700, John R Pierce wrote: > >> >> For shame! WfW was 3.11, > >> >> > >> > > >> > 3.1.1, IIRC > >> > > >> > >> actually, there was a 3.10 and 3.11 release of Windows for Workgroups. > >> The 3.11 release introduced the use of 32 bit protected mode > >> implementation of the network stack and file system via extensive use of > >> VxD drivers, and set the stage for Windows95 where almost the whole OS > >> kernel ran in VxD space (prior versions used 16bit realmode IO > >> components from MSDOS). > > > >Anyone ever see wabi running win3.1 under Linux?? THAT was a show > >stopper. It came with Caldera's releases. Mighty nifty it was. Ric > > I don't think I ever ran Wabi on Caldera, but did on SCO > OpenServer 5.0.x. > > Whatcha doin' over here Ric? Normally I see you on the linux-sxs list. I fled my harsh mistress Fedora! It's not a platform to try and do devel work on, or as a server. I need the quiet sedate life where things work today like they did yesterday. I'll certainly live longer. No clue how, why or who, but Xvfb refused to work with F7 and with CentOS it works like a charm, out of the box, with java.net's Wonderland program. No clue why, but if it breaks in the future, I'll know where upstream it came from. Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: "There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 Sign up at: http://counter.li.org/ https://nuoar.dev.java.net/ Verizon Cell # 336-254-1339 ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Wed, Sep 03, 2008, Ric Moore wrote: > >On Tue, 2008-09-02 at 11:19 -0700, John R Pierce wrote: >> >> For shame! WfW was 3.11, >> >> >> > >> > 3.1.1, IIRC >> > >> >> actually, there was a 3.10 and 3.11 release of Windows for Workgroups. >> The 3.11 release introduced the use of 32 bit protected mode >> implementation of the network stack and file system via extensive use of >> VxD drivers, and set the stage for Windows95 where almost the whole OS >> kernel ran in VxD space (prior versions used 16bit realmode IO >> components from MSDOS). > >Anyone ever see wabi running win3.1 under Linux?? THAT was a show >stopper. It came with Caldera's releases. Mighty nifty it was. Ric I don't think I ever ran Wabi on Caldera, but did on SCO OpenServer 5.0.x. Whatcha doin' over here Ric? Normally I see you on the linux-sxs list. Bill -- INTERNET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC URL: http://www.celestial.com/ PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way Voice: (206) 236-1676 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820 Fax:(206) 232-9186 Make no laws whatever concerning speech and, speech will be free; so soon as you make a declaration on paper that speech shall be free, you will have a hundred lawyers proving that freedom does not mean abuse, nor liberty license; and they will define and define freedom out of existence. - Voltarine de Cleyre (1866-1912) ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
Ric Moore wrote: On Tue, 2008-09-02 at 09:32 -0700, John R Pierce wrote: lets play "Name that old computer!" http://hogranch.com/digital.research/My_office_upstairs_at_734_Lighthouse.jpg (my office circa 1979) I spy with my little eye a televideo 803 terminal, and what looks like a hazeltine terminal, but the one at the chair with the square front I don't recognize. The blue one, an IMSAI 8080? Under it DEC? To the far left a televideo 1603? How many points do I get? :) Ric the far right bottom beige unit is a Cromemco System Three beast, and the blue box above it is an Intel MDS800 the "terminal" on top of the Vector MZ in the middle background was just a crt+keyboard, attached to said Vector MZ's internal video card I'm pretty sure the big square terminal in the middle foreground behind the phone is a Soroc (anagram for Coors) The terminal on the table to the left was a Televideo, I dont remember the number, and the computer next to it is a early sample of a Tarbell S100 system. All of these ran CP/M-80, as I was working at Digital Research on CP/M innards. Most of them had the max 64kbyte memory their 2 or 4Mhz 8 bit CPUs could address, and 2 or 4 diskette drives that held anywhere from 256K to 1MB each. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Tue, 2008-09-02 at 11:19 -0700, John R Pierce wrote: > >> For shame! WfW was 3.11, > >> > > > > 3.1.1, IIRC > > > > actually, there was a 3.10 and 3.11 release of Windows for Workgroups. > The 3.11 release introduced the use of 32 bit protected mode > implementation of the network stack and file system via extensive use of > VxD drivers, and set the stage for Windows95 where almost the whole OS > kernel ran in VxD space (prior versions used 16bit realmode IO > components from MSDOS). Anyone ever see wabi running win3.1 under Linux?? THAT was a show stopper. It came with Caldera's releases. Mighty nifty it was. Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: "There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 Sign up at: http://counter.li.org/ https://nuoar.dev.java.net/ Verizon Cell # 336-254-1339 ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Tue, 2008-09-02 at 09:32 -0700, John R Pierce wrote: > Ric Moore wrote: > > I once had a pretty large collection of CP/M machines. I had three > > IMSAI's > > ok, now you've done it. > > lets play "Name that old computer!" > > http://hogranch.com/digital.research/My_office_upstairs_at_734_Lighthouse.jpg > > (my office circa 1979) I spy with my little eye a televideo 803 terminal, and what looks like a hazeltine terminal, but the one at the chair with the square front I don't recognize. The blue one, an IMSAI 8080? Under it DEC? To the far left a televideo 1603? How many points do I get? :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: "There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 Sign up at: http://counter.li.org/ https://nuoar.dev.java.net/ Verizon Cell # 336-254-1339 ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Tue, 2008-09-02 at 19:55 +0100, Anne Wilson wrote: > On Tuesday 02 September 2008 19:10:32 MHR wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 10:50 AM, Anne Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > 3.1.1, IIRC > > > > Nope, 3.11. > > > You could be right. He is, we had a PC running it (WfW 3.11) till just this year on the shop floor, I have the disks stored away just in case. We also still use POWERLan for shop floor system, thankfully the company released it as freeware back in 1998 when they decided it was not worth their time to certify it as Y2K compliant. Shame they did not release the source code ... I for one would be happy to have it. Paul ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
Bill Campbell wrote: Anyway, 5 and 10 MB HDs were the common PC drives back in the 80s and 90s. 20MB was a *big* one. Seek (average) of > 60ms was usual and fast ones were less than that. The first HDs that Radio Shack sold for their Model 16s were 8in 8MB units and the primary HD which came with the disk controller sold for about $4,500.00. Which makes an interesting contrast to the 8 GB micro-sd cards (about $45?) that a typical phone will take these days... This was replaced with 5.25in 12MB drives in January 1983 at the same price, about the same time that the Model 16s were replaced by the Model 6000s (I learned Xenix on these boxes). If I remember correctly, Xenix came on 3 8in 1.2MB floppies plus another for the Development System which had things like the ``vi'' editor and *roff text processing tools. Once upon a time, these were the biggest installed base of any unix-like system. I guess we had a lot of patience back then - and not much data. -- Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Tue, Sep 02, 2008, William L. Maltby wrote: > >On Tue, 2008-09-02 at 12:26 -0700, Scott Silva wrote: >> >> >> > Can't argue with you :-) It does seem likely, as 1GB flash drives >> > wouldn't >> > have been a possibility at that time. I never owned one at all until >> > relatively recently. >> > >> I remember when 1 GB *hard* drives didn't exist! > >I swear, I'll never use a word like "curmudgeon" again! Sheesh! > >Anyway, 5 and 10 MB HDs were the common PC drives back in the 80s and >90s. 20MB was a *big* one. Seek (average) of > 60ms was usual and fast >ones were less than that. The first HDs that Radio Shack sold for their Model 16s were 8in 8MB units and the primary HD which came with the disk controller sold for about $4,500.00. This was replaced with 5.25in 12MB drives in January 1983 at the same price, about the same time that the Model 16s were replaced by the Model 6000s (I learned Xenix on these boxes). If I remember correctly, Xenix came on 3 8in 1.2MB floppies plus another for the Development System which had things like the ``vi'' editor and *roff text processing tools. The Apple Lisa came with a 5MB drive, and also ran Xenix, although I never could figure out where they would put any data. The Kaypro-10 was a real bargain in 1984 or so, selling for $2,500 including a hard drive, around 10MB if I remember. It ran only CP/M, but was a reasonable alternative to the IBM PC then. Bill -- INTERNET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC URL: http://www.celestial.com/ PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way Voice: (206) 236-1676 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820 Fax:(206) 232-9186 People who relieve others of their money with guns are called robbers. It does not alter the immorality of the act when the income transfer is carried out by government. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Tue, September 2, 2008 14:31, William L. Maltby wrote: > > On Tue, 2008-09-02 at 12:26 -0700, Scott Silva wrote: >> >> >> > Can't argue with you :-) It does seem likely, as 1GB flash drives >> wouldn't >> > have been a possibility at that time. I never owned one at all until >> > relatively recently. >> > >> I remember when 1 GB *hard* drives didn't exist! > > I swear, I'll never use a word like "curmudgeon" again! Sheesh! > > Anyway, 5 and 10 MB HDs were the common PC drives back in the 80s and > 90s. 20MB was a *big* one. Seek (average) of > 60ms was usual and fast > ones were less than that. I got my first PC with a 20MB (Seagate ST-225) drive in 1985, they were fairly affordable by then. I don't think 5s were even still available in normal retail channels (a friend, slightly earlier, took some time looking for a 5 hoping to save some money over a 10MB that was so inconceivably big, more than he needed, but couldn't find one for sale). And that was a half-height 5.25" 20MB drive. (Today, I couldn't fit two RAW photos from my current DSLR onto that drive. And that camera can shoot 5 frames a second and has a 19-shot internal buffer. And cost less than half what that first PC cost.) I'm sure it was in the 80s still when I was using 30MB RLL drives. Around 1992 I got a 40MB 5.25" full height drive in a new 386-based PC, and also my first laser printer. By 1995 I had 3.5" 720MB drives in my PCs. In the earlier 90s I had purchased two 300MB drives, 5.25" half height (for $1500 each, sigh). Also by 1995 I had my first CD drive (not CD-R, though I went to a seminar at 3M and saw one; an external SCSI device that sold for only $15,000). So I think you are lumping together too large a span of time to claim disk sizes were fairly stable over. -- David Dyer-Bennet, [EMAIL PROTECTED]; http://dd-b.net/ Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/ Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/ Dragaera: http://dragaera.info ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 12:26 PM, Scott Silva <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I remember when 1 GB *hard* drives didn't exist! > I still have a few - a 20MB Tulin TL225 that was HUGE when it first came out, and a couple of Seagates, one is 120MB and one is 512MB. Oh, and I almost forgot my Priam 780 FULL height 320MB drive, and I think I may have a couple of Maxtor 140MB drives, too. I also have a pile of five or six 4-8GB hard drives. I should be putting these up for auction on eBay in the not too distant future - they all work, but they take up a fair amount of space. Feel free to look aorund and buy, if you like dinosaurs, doorstops and other old stuff ;^) mhr ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 11:32 AM, John R Pierce <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ric Moore wrote: >> I once had a pretty large collection of CP/M machines. I had three >> IMSAI's > ok, now you've done it. > lets play "Name that old computer!" > http://hogranch.com/digital.research/My_office_upstairs_at_734_Lighthouse.jpg > (my office circa 1979) Circa 1979? Yesterday, I spoke with a man I worked with in 1978 - 1979. To my astonishment, the customer (DoD) is still using one of the systems I worked on then. They are paying a company to upgrade the Software, as they upgrade the Hardware. I am probably one of a few people who can understand the original Assembly language code written years ago for that. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Tue, 2008-09-02 at 12:26 -0700, Scott Silva wrote: > > > > Can't argue with you :-) It does seem likely, as 1GB flash drives wouldn't > > have been a possibility at that time. I never owned one at all until > > relatively recently. > > > I remember when 1 GB *hard* drives didn't exist! I swear, I'll never use a word like "curmudgeon" again! Sheesh! Anyway, 5 and 10 MB HDs were the common PC drives back in the 80s and 90s. 20MB was a *big* one. Seek (average) of > 60ms was usual and fast ones were less than that. > -- Bill ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
[CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
Can't argue with you :-) It does seem likely, as 1GB flash drives wouldn't have been a possibility at that time. I never owned one at all until relatively recently. I remember when 1 GB *hard* drives didn't exist! -- MailScanner is like deodorant... You hope everybody uses it, and you notice quickly if they don't signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Anne Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Fair enough. Out of curiosity - do they work in W2K out of the box, or > require some update? I ask because I'm considering W2K as a > VM. > Ya got me there - I /think/ so, but am not sure. mhr ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Tuesday 02 September 2008 19:10:32 MHR wrote: > On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 10:50 AM, Anne Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > 3.1.1, IIRC > > Nope, 3.11. > You could be right. > > I did. It was better than 95, and better than 98 first edition. > > I was making a joke about WfW screaming. > > > USB drives should work without any problem at all, assuming he is using > > 98SE. > > No, the newer generation drives, mostly 1GB and up, explicitly do not > have drivers for 98SE at all. In theory, one could tweak a > pre-existing driver to handle the extra memory, but in fact, a > Kingston 1GB drive will not work with 98SE. That's the beauty of > Windows > Can't argue with you :-) It does seem likely, as 1GB flash drives wouldn't have been a possibility at that time. I never owned one at all until relatively recently. > > They didn't work in 98 first edition, nor in NT4 or Win2000 - again, from > > memory, which could be faulty. > > In Win2k, Micro$oft finally got up to speed and most flash drives > will work with it, but XP is better. > Fair enough. Out of curiosity - do they work in W2K out of the box, or require some update? I ask because I'm considering W2K as a VM. Anne signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
For shame! WfW was 3.11, 3.1.1, IIRC actually, there was a 3.10 and 3.11 release of Windows for Workgroups. The 3.11 release introduced the use of 32 bit protected mode implementation of the network stack and file system via extensive use of VxD drivers, and set the stage for Windows95 where almost the whole OS kernel ran in VxD space (prior versions used 16bit realmode IO components from MSDOS). ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 10:50 AM, Anne Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > 3.1.1, IIRC > Nope, 3.11. > I did. It was better than 95, and better than 98 first edition. > I was making a joke about WfW screaming. > USB drives should work without any problem at all, assuming he is using 98SE. > No, the newer generation drives, mostly 1GB and up, explicitly do not have drivers for 98SE at all. In theory, one could tweak a pre-existing driver to handle the extra memory, but in fact, a Kingston 1GB drive will not work with 98SE. That's the beauty of Windows > They didn't work in 98 first edition, nor in NT4 or Win2000 - again, from > memory, which could be faulty. > In Win2k, Micro$oft finally got up to speed and most flash drives will work with it, but XP is better. mhr ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Tuesday 02 September 2008 18:25:10 MHR wrote: > On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 8:46 AM, Scott Silva <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > But Windows for Workgroups 3.1 really screams on the newer hardware! ;-P > > For shame! WfW was 3.11, 3.1.1, IIRC > and it just screams, or did, or so I heard - > never used it. I did. It was better than 95, and better than 98 first edition. > I stuck with 3.1 until 98 was due out and then, > finally, caved and bought (!) a copy of 95. > > In fact, my son is still using 98, but I think I've finally convinced > him to go to XP - I bought him some really neat flash drives that he > really likes but that do not work with 98 at all. Heh, heh, heh,... > USB drives should work without any problem at all, assuming he is using 98SE. They didn't work in 98 first edition, nor in NT4 or Win2000 - again, from memory, which could be faulty. Anne signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 8:46 AM, Scott Silva <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > But Windows for Workgroups 3.1 really screams on the newer hardware! ;-P > For shame! WfW was 3.11, and it just screams, or did, or so I heard - never used it. I stuck with 3.1 until 98 was due out and then, finally, caved and bought (!) a copy of 95. In fact, my son is still using 98, but I think I've finally convinced him to go to XP - I bought him some really neat flash drives that he really likes but that do not work with 98 at all. Heh, heh, heh,... mhr ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
Ric Moore wrote: I once had a pretty large collection of CP/M machines. I had three IMSAI's ok, now you've done it. lets play "Name that old computer!" http://hogranch.com/digital.research/My_office_upstairs_at_734_Lighthouse.jpg (my office circa 1979) ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
[CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
This discussion really should be on the classic computers mail list. Hmmm 2Mhz 8080a vs 3.0Ghz Core 2 duo ... things have changed a bit on the personal computer side. But Windows for Workgroups 3.1 really screams on the newer hardware! ;-P -- MailScanner is like deodorant... You hope everybody uses it, and you notice quickly if they don't signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Sun, August 31, 2008 04:03, Ric Moore wrote: > > On Fri, 2008-08-29 at 10:51 -0500, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: >> I've also still got a laptop that's probably older than him. It runs >> CP/M. > > I once had a pretty large collection of CP/M machines. I had three > IMSAI's. a VDP-80 and two VDP-44's. I think I had every Televideo ever > made, including the luggable and the server that ran MP/M. Altos, > Osborn, and a bunch of others. Man, think of what CP/M could do running > on a Pentium. Ric I got into the home computing scene late (the systems at work were so much more powerful and attractive, and it was normal to play with them for personal use). But I've still got my very first computer, a DEC VT-180 "Robin" (a VT-100 terminal with a CP/M board in the card cage, and an external pair of 5.25" floppies; mine actually has two pair of floppies, and they've been upgraded to 400kb or some such). The laptop is an Epson PX-8. Software resided on PROM chips on little carriers. It had a built-in microcassette drive for data storage. -- David Dyer-Bennet, [EMAIL PROTECTED]; http://dd-b.net/ Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/ Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/ Dragaera: http://dragaera.info ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
[CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
8" floppies. Now that does bring back a memory for me. I was working on a project in Texas. The customer was in Kentucky as I recall. I fixed a problem and gave an 8" floppy to our Shipping department, to send to the customer. The customer called me on the phone, to inform me that the floppy had been bent, so it would fit into the box. As I recall, it did work, after he straightened it out. For the rest of the time that I worked there, I packed things myself, before they were shipped, and that wasn't my job. I couldn't believe someone in the Shipping department was that stupid. Are you kidding? The shipping and the mailroom departments are usually the first place that get their budgets cut. That is where every bodies kids get summer jobs, and are often very transient in employment. -- MailScanner is like deodorant... You hope everybody uses it, and you notice quickly if they don't signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
[CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Mon, 1 Sep 2008, Paul wrote: Hmmm, Processor Technologies used to have a voice coil actuated dual drive that shared it between both drives IIRC. Interesting drive with a motorized eject, thing is you had to wait for the disk to complete eject before you grabbed it, if you grabbed it before it finished coming out the arm the pushed the disk out would jamb. The 'Helios' -- 2300 late '70's dollars for a floppy disk drive. hmmm As I said -- I don't miss them. -Russ herrold ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Sun, 2008-08-31 at 22:21 -0400, Ric Moore wrote: > On Sun, 2008-08-31 at 11:20 -0700, Bill Campbell wrote: > > > When I first encountered a customer who had disk drive problems such that > > we replaced the 8in drives in their Radio Shack Model II several times, it > > wasn't until I went on-site to find that they were storing their floppies > > by sticking them to the file cabinet with refrigerator magnets. The > > amazing thing to me was that I found that this was a fairly common problem. > > > > Then there was the person who stapled the floppy to a cover letter. > > Just turning the machine off, with the 8" floppy still in the drive > would spike the boot sector. Luckily I knew a guy that could resurrect > it. That was on the IMSAI VDP-88 with voice-coil. By the time I got it, > they weren't making replacement boot disks as IMSAI was long out of > business. Govt. State Surplus is your friend, if you're into old > iron. :) Ric Hmmm, Processor Technologies used to have a voice coil actuated dual drive that shared it between both drives IIRC. Interesting drive with a motorized eject, thing is you had to wait for the disk to complete eject before you grabbed it, if you grabbed it before it finished coming out the arm the pushed the disk out would jamb. This discussion really should be on the classic computers mail list. Hmmm 2Mhz 8080a vs 3.0Ghz Core 2 duo ... things have changed a bit on the personal computer side. Paul > > > ___ > CentOS mailing list > CentOS@centos.org > http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos > ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Sun, 2008-08-31 at 11:20 -0700, Bill Campbell wrote: > When I first encountered a customer who had disk drive problems such that > we replaced the 8in drives in their Radio Shack Model II several times, it > wasn't until I went on-site to find that they were storing their floppies > by sticking them to the file cabinet with refrigerator magnets. The > amazing thing to me was that I found that this was a fairly common problem. > > Then there was the person who stapled the floppy to a cover letter. Just turning the machine off, with the 8" floppy still in the drive would spike the boot sector. Luckily I knew a guy that could resurrect it. That was on the IMSAI VDP-88 with voice-coil. By the time I got it, they weren't making replacement boot disks as IMSAI was long out of business. Govt. State Surplus is your friend, if you're into old iron. :) Ric ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Sun, Aug 31, 2008 at 1:20 PM, Bill Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sun, Aug 31, 2008, Lanny Marcus wrote: >>On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 7:35 PM, MHR <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 5:27 PM, Bill Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> Wait, I have a Pascal Microengine in the garage that I never did get >>> to boot! You know, the ones that ran on the 8" floppies, like the old >>> Teraks we used at UCSD? >> >>8" floppies. Now that does bring back a memory for me. I was working >>on a project in Texas. The customer was in Kentucky as I recall. >>I fixed a problem and gave an 8" floppy to our Shipping department, to >>send to the customer. The customer called me on the phone, to >>inform me that the floppy had been bent, so it would fit into the box. >>As I recall, it did work, after he straightened it out. For the rest >>of the time that I worked there, I packed things myself, before they >>were shipped, and that wasn't my job. I couldn't believe someone in >>the Shipping department was that stupid. > > Never underestimate the level of stupidity/ignorance of people (after all > most of the were ``educated'' in government schools :-). > > When I first encountered a customer who had disk drive problems such that > we replaced the 8in drives in their Radio Shack Model II several times, it > wasn't until I went on-site to find that they were storing their floppies > by sticking them to the file cabinet with refrigerator magnets. The > amazing thing to me was that I found that this was a fairly common problem. > > Then there was the person who stapled the floppy to a cover letter. LOL. The customer in Kentucky was very good. We shipped the system to them in a moving van (and we prayed it wouldn't be involved in an accident or fire) and they installed it. I never had to go down there. He probably hasn't forgotten the bent floppy either. Attaching the floppies with magnets is also very good. :-) ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Sun, Aug 31, 2008, Lanny Marcus wrote: >On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 7:35 PM, MHR <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 5:27 PM, Bill Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> I still have a Tandy 4000, 386-16 no cache, that is used occassionally to >>> program EPROMS. This same machine ran Xenix for years before being abused >>> by installing DR-DOS on it. >>> >>> I have a Radio Shack Model 100, the first laptop, in the closet beside an >>> HP-97 programmable calculator. >> >> Well, all I have that foes back that far is a 2nd gen IBM PC (the 64k >> m/b) that would probably work if I knew where any of my 360k MS-DOS >> floppies were. >> >> Wait, I have a Pascal Microengine in the garage that I never did get >> to boot! You know, the ones that ran on the 8" floppies, like the old >> Teraks we used at UCSD? > >8" floppies. Now that does bring back a memory for me. I was working >on a project in Texas. The customer was in Kentucky as I recall. >I fixed a problem and gave an 8" floppy to our Shipping department, to >send to the customer. The customer called me on the phone, to >inform me that the floppy had been bent, so it would fit into the box. >As I recall, it did work, after he straightened it out. For the rest >of the time that I worked there, I packed things myself, before they >were shipped, and that wasn't my job. I couldn't believe someone in >the Shipping department was that stupid. Never underestimate the level of stupidity/ignorance of people (after all most of the were ``educated'' in government schools :-). When I first encountered a customer who had disk drive problems such that we replaced the 8in drives in their Radio Shack Model II several times, it wasn't until I went on-site to find that they were storing their floppies by sticking them to the file cabinet with refrigerator magnets. The amazing thing to me was that I found that this was a fairly common problem. Then there was the person who stapled the floppy to a cover letter. Bill -- INTERNET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC URL: http://www.celestial.com/ PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way Voice: (206) 236-1676 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820 Fax:(206) 232-9186 The only freedom which deserves the name, is that of pursuing our own good in our own way, so long as we do not attempt to deprive others of theirs, or impede their efforts to obtain it. -- John Stuart Mill, 1859 ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 7:35 PM, MHR <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 5:27 PM, Bill Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I still have a Tandy 4000, 386-16 no cache, that is used occassionally to >> program EPROMS. This same machine ran Xenix for years before being abused >> by installing DR-DOS on it. >> >> I have a Radio Shack Model 100, the first laptop, in the closet beside an >> HP-97 programmable calculator. > > Well, all I have that foes back that far is a 2nd gen IBM PC (the 64k > m/b) that would probably work if I knew where any of my 360k MS-DOS > floppies were. > > Wait, I have a Pascal Microengine in the garage that I never did get > to boot! You know, the ones that ran on the 8" floppies, like the old > Teraks we used at UCSD? 8" floppies. Now that does bring back a memory for me. I was working on a project in Texas. The customer was in Kentucky as I recall. I fixed a problem and gave an 8" floppy to our Shipping department, to send to the customer. The customer called me on the phone, to inform me that the floppy had been bent, so it would fit into the box. As I recall, it did work, after he straightened it out. For the rest of the time that I worked there, I packed things myself, before they were shipped, and that wasn't my job. I couldn't believe someone in the Shipping department was that stupid. > > Never mind - too modern (vintage 1978-79) ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Fri, 2008-08-29 at 10:51 -0500, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > On Thu, August 28, 2008 17:50, Scott Silva wrote: > > > >> > >> You do realize I'm one of the "squirts" you're referring to right? > >> I started working with computers in more than just a 'hey, I need to > >> write this paper' sort of way around 1995. The *first* CPU I used was > >> a pentium (though this is not the oldest, as I developed a fondness > >> for antiques). > >> > >> So you geezers can just put the token ring down, and step away from > >> the thin-net. Oh.. and get off my lawn! :-P > > > I have motherboards in my garage older than you! ;-D > > I just took one down off the server shelf last week, finishing the > decommissioning process. It hasn't made it out to the garage yet. > > I've also still got a laptop that's probably older than him. It runs CP/M. I once had a pretty large collection of CP/M machines. I had three IMSAI's. a VDP-80 and two VDP-44's. I think I had every Televideo ever made, including the luggable and the server that ran MP/M. Altos, Osborn, and a bunch of others. Man, think of what CP/M could do running on a Pentium. Ric ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
John Hinton wrote: CentOS must be running really good for everyone as this which is now the 'oldest thread that already should have died' seems to keep interrupting my normally busy CentOS mailbox. :( And you really don't want me to start into old.. Can we get back to the regularly scheduled program please? Best, John Hinton ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos AS the OP I will add a last note, I recently got rid of my first *nix system - a Cromemco that supported 2 terminals, it had 64k of memory for the OS and then needed another 64k card for each terminal, ran Cromix as operatinf system very *nix like - tar cpio etc etc. !0MB hard disk and 2 8" floppies for backup. The last thing to go was a Mannesman printer that was in service for 20+ years before quitting. On the toolbox theme I have all the bits plus some of a 1930/1 model A ford waiting for me to find time to rebuild / retore it. ChrisG ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 10:56 AM, John Hinton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > CentOS must be running really good for everyone as this which is now the > 'oldest thread that already should have died' seems to keep interrupting my > normally busy CentOS mailbox. :( And you really don't want me to start into > old.. > > Can we get back to the regularly scheduled program please? > Hey, sit back and learn! Haven't you ever been told to listen to your grandfather's stories? I'm too young to compete with these old folks - all of my hardware is younger than Jim. mhr ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
CentOS must be running really good for everyone as this which is now the 'oldest thread that already should have died' seems to keep interrupting my normally busy CentOS mailbox. :( And you really don't want me to start into old.. Can we get back to the regularly scheduled program please? Best, John Hinton ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
[CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
on 8-29-2008 9:47 AM R P Herrold spake the following: On Fri, 29 Aug 2008, Jim Perrin wrote: On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 8:58 AM, R P Herrold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: you win ;) -- I don't want to be older, and in my head, I'm still in my twenties. Face it. Your golden buckeye card has a registration number of 1. you cannot escape this fact, no matter how much single-malt confusion you pour on the truth. :-P Just because I was THERE when the last Gov. James A Rhodes first announced the program is no reason to get snippy with me, you young whippersnapper ;) hmmm ... there is a commorative clay tablet pictograph somewhere back behind the aging single malt casks in the caves -- I'll look for it - R Wow! ... OK where were you during the Gettysburg address! ;-) -- MailScanner is like deodorant... You hope everybody uses it, and you notice quickly if they don't signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
[CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
on 8-29-2008 9:04 AM Bill Campbell spake the following: On Fri, Aug 29, 2008, William L. Maltby wrote: On Thu, 2008-08-28 at 17:27 -0700, Bill Campbell wrote: I still have a Tandy 4000, 386-16 no cache, that is used occassionally to program EPROMS. This same machine ran Xenix for years before being abused by installing DR-DOS on it. For shame, for shame! You should have known better! ;-) Regardless, I was getting readdy to discard these when I saw your post. If you need some spares, I've got 1 each 360KB and 1.2MB 5.25" floppy drives that still worked last I used them. One might have come out of a TRS-80 I had when they were a "hot" item - I'm not sure. Also a box full of media for them (a couple hundred?) untested but some may still work. I too have a room full of old stuff including floppy drives, EISA network and SCSI cards, 3 Telebit WorldBlazers and 1 TrailBlazer, Xenix 2.3.4 and SCO 3.2v4.2 boxes that still boot if necessary. Being a pack rat does occassionally pay off. I got an e-mail from a person who had bought my old Hawke DL-9 Formula Ford to go vintage car racing, and I still have the original paperwork when I imported it from England, letters from the designer, etc. which provides provenance going back to the factory. I raced this car from 1972 through 1977 on the east coast, and now it's about two hours north of me in Surrey B.C. -- small world eh? http://www.celestial.com/Members/bill/images/hawke_DL9_01.jpg/view FWIW, I even have lug nuts for a Lotus 41-C Formula car in my tool box dating back to 1968 which predates any of my computer bits. Bill Ok... You win! ;-P The oldest thing in my toolbox is an axle nut wrench for a 65 VW that my ex. had. Funny that the ex has been gone for 20 years, but the tool is still in my toolbox. But then the tool didn't jump from "car to car" like the ex did! -- MailScanner is like deodorant... You hope everybody uses it, and you notice quickly if they don't signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
[CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Fri, 29 Aug 2008, Jim Perrin wrote: On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 8:58 AM, R P Herrold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: you win ;) -- I don't want to be older, and in my head, I'm still in my twenties. Face it. Your golden buckeye card has a registration number of 1. you cannot escape this fact, no matter how much single-malt confusion you pour on the truth. :-P Just because I was THERE when the last Gov. James A Rhodes first announced the program is no reason to get snippy with me, you young whippersnapper ;) hmmm ... there is a commorative clay tablet pictograph somewhere back behind the aging single malt casks in the caves -- I'll look for it - R ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Fri, Aug 29, 2008, William L. Maltby wrote: > >On Thu, 2008-08-28 at 17:27 -0700, Bill Campbell wrote: >> > >> I still have a Tandy 4000, 386-16 no cache, that is used occassionally to >> program EPROMS. This same machine ran Xenix for years before being abused >> by installing DR-DOS on it. > >For shame, for shame! You should have known better! ;-) > >Regardless, I was getting readdy to discard these when I saw your post. >If you need some spares, I've got 1 each 360KB and 1.2MB 5.25" floppy >drives that still worked last I used them. One might have come out of a >TRS-80 I had when they were a "hot" item - I'm not sure. Also a box full >of media for them (a couple hundred?) untested but some may still work. I too have a room full of old stuff including floppy drives, EISA network and SCSI cards, 3 Telebit WorldBlazers and 1 TrailBlazer, Xenix 2.3.4 and SCO 3.2v4.2 boxes that still boot if necessary. Being a pack rat does occassionally pay off. I got an e-mail from a person who had bought my old Hawke DL-9 Formula Ford to go vintage car racing, and I still have the original paperwork when I imported it from England, letters from the designer, etc. which provides provenance going back to the factory. I raced this car from 1972 through 1977 on the east coast, and now it's about two hours north of me in Surrey B.C. -- small world eh? http://www.celestial.com/Members/bill/images/hawke_DL9_01.jpg/view FWIW, I even have lug nuts for a Lotus 41-C Formula car in my tool box dating back to 1968 which predates any of my computer bits. Bill -- INTERNET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC URL: http://www.celestial.com/ PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way Voice: (206) 236-1676 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820 Fax:(206) 232-9186 Property must be secured, or liberty cannot exist. -- John Adams ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Thu, August 28, 2008 17:50, Scott Silva wrote: > >> >> You do realize I'm one of the "squirts" you're referring to right? >> I started working with computers in more than just a 'hey, I need to >> write this paper' sort of way around 1995. The *first* CPU I used was >> a pentium (though this is not the oldest, as I developed a fondness >> for antiques). >> >> So you geezers can just put the token ring down, and step away from >> the thin-net. Oh.. and get off my lawn! :-P > I have motherboards in my garage older than you! ;-D I just took one down off the server shelf last week, finishing the decommissioning process. It hasn't made it out to the garage yet. I've also still got a laptop that's probably older than him. It runs CP/M. -- David Dyer-Bennet, [EMAIL PROTECTED]; http://dd-b.net/ Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/ Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/ Dragaera: http://dragaera.info ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Fri, August 29, 2008 07:58, R P Herrold wrote: > > Reading closely the rest of the thread, I 'programmed' > plugboards on 5xx series unit record machines, ran 026, 027, > and 029's; ran the 13 pocket sorter; later wrote tape and > print spooling deivers for our 1401, and all that. I don't > miss them either. The first place I worked had a card-sorter and one plug-programmable device that I never programmed. I really should have, but I was busy learning other things, and didn't quite notice that it was the tail end of a dying era and I could get an amusing punch on my ticket. I'm not even sure what it did exactly any more; it wasn't the tabulator because it didn't have a printer. > you win ;) -- I don't want to be older, and in my head, I'm > still in my twenties. Oh yes. Very definitely. -- David Dyer-Bennet, [EMAIL PROTECTED]; http://dd-b.net/ Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/ Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/ Dragaera: http://dragaera.info ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 8:58 AM, R P Herrold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > you win ;) -- I don't want to be older, and in my head, I'm still in my > twenties. Face it. Your golden buckeye card has a registration number of 1. you cannot escape this fact, no matter how much single-malt confusion you pour on the truth. :-P -- During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. George Orwell ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
[CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing, Dual Layer DVD)
Scott Silva <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: on 8-28-2008 4:15 PM William L. Maltby spake the following: > On Thu, 2008-08-28 at 15:50 -0700, Scott Silva wrote: >> > >> I have motherboards in my garage older than you! ;-D > > PIKER! I've mobos still running (when I fire 'em up). Although I'm > seriously considering ditching the 386SX with Win 3.11. Don't find any > reason to fire it up anymore. > > Hell, even at my age I've got more memory left than it ever had! :-)) > >> > I don't think I kept anything lower than a 486. You never know if you might need it! One of my projects of the moment is to get rid of all of the old motherboards and systems in my basement. I'm thinking I'll keep one working system/MB that has ISA slots. Not sure which one yet but probably either the Pentium or a K6/2 550Mhz. I've got W2K running in a qemu virtual machine on my current desktop so I'm guessing I can get any older versions of Windows working if I have to. I just can't virtualize an ISA slot if the need arises. A few things hanging around the basement I *won't* part with though as part of this clean up: - A still shrink wrapped copy of Windows/386 (media is 5.25 inch floppies) - A true blue (IBM logo) PC-AT (6 MHz 80286) with a full height 30MB hard drive and 1MB of RAM, DOS 3.3. Also, I've still got at least one punch card from my college days (Ohio State in the late '70s). I usually hang it on my cubicle wall when I'm working a regular gig. Most of the kids have never seen one before. Cheers, Dave -- Politics, n. Strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. -- Ambrose Bierce ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
[CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Thu, 28 Aug 2008, Robert wrote: We might be entering "first liar don't have a chance" territory here. Do you remember where you were when Kennedy was shot? sadly, yes I was in the last Ramac 305 class ever held, on lunch break and had watched the motorcade pass from a lunchroom window. Needless to say, we didn't talk about triggers, cathode followers or "bit carries" (deliver me!) in class that afternoon. It has been an interesting trip, eh? Reading closely the rest of the thread, I 'programmed' plugboards on 5xx series unit record machines, ran 026, 027, and 029's; ran the 13 pocket sorter; later wrote tape and print spooling deivers for our 1401, and all that. I don't miss them either. you win ;) -- I don't want to be older, and in my head, I'm still in my twenties. - R ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Thu, 2008-08-28 at 20:47 -0400, fred smith wrote: > > I've still got the first computer I ever bought (a lot newer than the first > one I ever used), a screamin' 10 Mhz XT clone with 8087 too! Last year > when I fired it up it still worked, though the hard drive had bitten > the dust. > > And when my wife threatened, some years back, to throw out my boxes of > eight inch floppies, I took 'em to work and stuck 'em under my desk for > safekeeping. I swear, one of these days I'm going to find a 8" drive > for them so I can read 'em in. then I can find one of those pdp-11 > emulators and run RT-11 and some ancient Unix too! IIRC, the TRS Model 16 had 8" drives. That might be a good bet. > -- Bill (the other one) ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Thu, 2008-08-28 at 17:35 -0700, MHR wrote: > > Well, all I have that foes back that far is a 2nd gen IBM PC (the 64k > m/b) that would probably work if I knew where any of my 360k MS-DOS > floppies were. I could make some for you. Just need to pop the drive into one of my units. > > mhr > -- Bill (the other one) ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Thu, 2008-08-28 at 17:27 -0700, Bill Campbell wrote: > > I still have a Tandy 4000, 386-16 no cache, that is used occassionally to > program EPROMS. This same machine ran Xenix for years before being abused > by installing DR-DOS on it. For shame, for shame! You should have known better! ;-) Regardless, I was getting readdy to discard these when I saw your post. If you need some spares, I've got 1 each 360KB and 1.2MB 5.25" floppy drives that still worked last I used them. One might have come out of a TRS-80 I had when they were a "hot" item - I'm not sure. Also a box full of media for them (a couple hundred?) untested but some may still work. Let me know. I really hate throwing away something, that's still perfectly useful, just because the world has passed it by. Hmm ... might be something empathetic in that. > > I have a Radio Shack Model 100, the first laptop, in the closet beside an > HP-97 programmable calculator. > > Bill -- Bill (the other one)! ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Thu, 2008-08-28 at 16:57 -0700, Scott Silva wrote: > on 8-28-2008 4:15 PM William L. Maltby spake the following: > > On Thu, 2008-08-28 at 15:50 -0700, Scott Silva wrote: > >> > > > >> I have motherboards in my garage older than you! ;-D > > > > PIKER! I've mobos still running (when I fire 'em up). Although I'm > > seriously considering ditching the 386SX with Win 3.11. Don't find any > > reason to fire it up anymore. > > > > Hell, even at my age I've got more memory left than it ever had! :-)) > > > >> > > > I don't think I kept anything lower than a 486. You never know if you might > need it! I have a 486DX fully configured and ready to step in as my fallback IPCop gateway if the primary should fail. The primary is a 200MHz Pentium. With the 10Mbit ethernet cards and standard Road Runner cable modem service, it used to get about 600MB/sec. The 486 would do about 75% of that (450MB/sec). A good enough backup I think. > -- Bill ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
R P Herrold wrote: > On Thu, 28 Aug 2008, William L. Maltby wrote: > >> PIKER! I've mobos still running (when I fire 'em up). Although I'm >> seriously considering ditching the 386SX with Win 3.11. Don't find any > > three words: Processor Tech Sol Two words: Compulsive Hoarders. All of you! Cheers, Ralph pgpvPXvfjvBvM.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
R P Herrold wrote: On Thu, 28 Aug 2008, Akemi Yagi wrote: three words: Processor Tech Sol -- Russ herrold Ahh, I was waiting for you to show up. OK, everyone, if you are trying to show your age, stop now -- because no one can win orc_orc (Russ, our CentOS dev). Actually from slightly before that era, I also have a functional Intel 4004 I wire-wrapped, and a MEK-6800 eval kit [256 bytes of ram] as well, but these require a switch and light harness, or an ASR-33 teletype with paper tape reader, respectively, for me to fire up that I have long since parted with. -- Russ herrold We might be entering "first liar don't have a chance" territory here. Do you remember where you were when Kennedy was shot? I was in the last Ramac 305 class ever held, on lunch break and had watched the motorcade pass from a lunchroom window. Needless to say, we didn't talk about triggers, cathode followers or "bit carries" (deliver me!) in class that afternoon. It has been an interesting trip, eh? ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
[CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Thu, 28 Aug 2008, Akemi Yagi wrote: three words: Processor Tech Sol -- Russ herrold Ahh, I was waiting for you to show up. OK, everyone, if you are trying to show your age, stop now -- because no one can win orc_orc (Russ, our CentOS dev). Actually from slightly before that era, I also have a functional Intel 4004 I wire-wrapped, and a MEK-6800 eval kit [256 bytes of ram] as well, but these require a switch and light harness, or an ASR-33 teletype with paper tape reader, respectively, for me to fire up that I have long since parted with. -- Russ herrold ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 5:58 PM, R P Herrold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, 28 Aug 2008, William L. Maltby wrote: > >> PIKER! I've mobos still running (when I fire 'em up). Although I'm >> seriously considering ditching the 386SX with Win 3.11. Don't find any > > three words: Processor Tech Sol > > -- Russ herrold Ahh, I was waiting for you to show up. OK, everyone, if you are trying to show your age, stop now -- because no one can win orc_orc (Russ, our CentOS dev). Akemi ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
[CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Thu, 28 Aug 2008, William L. Maltby wrote: PIKER! I've mobos still running (when I fire 'em up). Although I'm seriously considering ditching the 386SX with Win 3.11. Don't find any three words: Processor Tech Sol -- Russ herrold ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 05:35:28PM -0700, MHR wrote: > On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 5:27 PM, Bill Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I still have a Tandy 4000, 386-16 no cache, that is used occassionally to > > program EPROMS. This same machine ran Xenix for years before being abused > > by installing DR-DOS on it. > > > > I have a Radio Shack Model 100, the first laptop, in the closet beside an > > HP-97 programmable calculator. > > > > Well, all I have that foes back that far is a 2nd gen IBM PC (the 64k > m/b) that would probably work if I knew where any of my 360k MS-DOS > floppies were. > > Wait, I have a Pascal Microengine in the garage that I never did get > to boot! You know, the ones that ran on the 8" floppies, like the old > Teraks we used at UCSD? > > Never mind - too modern (vintage 1978-79) I've still got the first computer I ever bought (a lot newer than the first one I ever used), a screamin' 10 Mhz XT clone with 8087 too! Last year when I fired it up it still worked, though the hard drive had bitten the dust. And when my wife threatened, some years back, to throw out my boxes of eight inch floppies, I took 'em to work and stuck 'em under my desk for safekeeping. I swear, one of these days I'm going to find a 8" drive for them so I can read 'em in. then I can find one of those pdp-11 emulators and run RT-11 and some ancient Unix too! -- Fred Smith -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Do you not know? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He will not grow tired or weary, and his understanding no one can fathom. - Isaiah 40:28 (niv) - pgprXIzTKPXOh.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 5:27 PM, Bill Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I still have a Tandy 4000, 386-16 no cache, that is used occassionally to > program EPROMS. This same machine ran Xenix for years before being abused > by installing DR-DOS on it. > > I have a Radio Shack Model 100, the first laptop, in the closet beside an > HP-97 programmable calculator. > Well, all I have that foes back that far is a 2nd gen IBM PC (the 64k m/b) that would probably work if I knew where any of my 360k MS-DOS floppies were. Wait, I have a Pascal Microengine in the garage that I never did get to boot! You know, the ones that ran on the 8" floppies, like the old Teraks we used at UCSD? Never mind - too modern (vintage 1978-79) ;^) mhr ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Thu, Aug 28, 2008, Scott Silva wrote: > on 8-28-2008 4:15 PM William L. Maltby spake the following: >> On Thu, 2008-08-28 at 15:50 -0700, Scott Silva wrote: >>> >> >>> I have motherboards in my garage older than you! ;-D >> >> PIKER! I've mobos still running (when I fire 'em up). Although I'm >> seriously considering ditching the 386SX with Win 3.11. Don't find any >> reason to fire it up anymore. >> >> Hell, even at my age I've got more memory left than it ever had! :-)) >> >>> >> > I don't think I kept anything lower than a 486. You never know if you > might need it! I still have a Tandy 4000, 386-16 no cache, that is used occassionally to program EPROMS. This same machine ran Xenix for years before being abused by installing DR-DOS on it. I have a Radio Shack Model 100, the first laptop, in the closet beside an HP-97 programmable calculator. Bill -- INTERNET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC URL: http://www.celestial.com/ PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way Voice: (206) 236-1676 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820 Fax:(206) 232-9186 If the personal freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution inhibit the government's ability to govern the people, we should look to limit those guarantees. -- President Bill Clinton, August 12, 1993 ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
[CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
on 8-28-2008 4:15 PM William L. Maltby spake the following: On Thu, 2008-08-28 at 15:50 -0700, Scott Silva wrote: I have motherboards in my garage older than you! ;-D PIKER! I've mobos still running (when I fire 'em up). Although I'm seriously considering ditching the 386SX with Win 3.11. Don't find any reason to fire it up anymore. Hell, even at my age I've got more memory left than it ever had! :-)) I don't think I kept anything lower than a 486. You never know if you might need it! -- MailScanner is like deodorant... You hope everybody uses it, and you notice quickly if they don't signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
On Thu, 2008-08-28 at 15:50 -0700, Scott Silva wrote: > > > > I have motherboards in my garage older than you! ;-D PIKER! I've mobos still running (when I fire 'em up). Although I'm seriously considering ditching the 386SX with Win 3.11. Don't find any reason to fire it up anymore. Hell, even at my age I've got more memory left than it ever had! :-)) > -- Bill ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
[CentOS] Re: Curmudgeoning (was Re: Problems with writing Dual Layer DVD)
You do realize I'm one of the "squirts" you're referring to right? I started working with computers in more than just a 'hey, I need to write this paper' sort of way around 1995. The *first* CPU I used was a pentium (though this is not the oldest, as I developed a fondness for antiques). So you geezers can just put the token ring down, and step away from the thin-net. Oh.. and get off my lawn! :-P I have motherboards in my garage older than you! ;-D -- MailScanner is like deodorant... You hope everybody uses it, and you notice quickly if they don't signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
