Re: [CentOS] dkms
m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: > Is there some way to make dkms NOT try to install/load a driver? > > mark, with an old NVidia card that is *NOT* supported > by anything newer than 174, and *certainly* not > by the "generic" xorg x11 nvidia driver > why dkms? use nvidia-x11-drv-173xx and kmod-nvidia-173xx from elrepo, the kmod is kabi-tracking. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] dkms
> > > m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: >> Is there some way to make dkms NOT try to install/load a driver? >> >> mark, with an old NVidia card that is *NOT* supported >> by anything newer than 174, and *certainly* not >> by the "generic" xorg x11 nvidia driver >> > > why dkms? > use nvidia-x11-drv-173xx and kmod-nvidia-173xx from elrepo, the kmod is > kabi-tracking. That's the one I think I'm using. Somehow, when I did my most recent update, to kernel 2.6.18-164.11.1.el5, or whenever it did an X update, I lose track, it installed dkms-nvidia-x11-drv. I want to prevent that update from occurring in the future... and I may need to do it on some users' systems, also with older nvidia cards. mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] dkms
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 11:13 AM, wrote: >> why dkms? >> use nvidia-x11-drv-173xx and kmod-nvidia-173xx from elrepo, the kmod is >> kabi-tracking. > > That's the one I think I'm using. Somehow, when I did my most recent > update, to kernel 2.6.18-164.11.1.el5, or whenever it did an X update, I > lose track, it installed dkms-nvidia-x11-drv. I want to prevent that > update from occurring in the future... and I may need to do it on some > users' systems, also with older nvidia cards. Try uninstalling the dkms stuff using yum like so: yum remove dkms-nvidia-x11-drv If you do not have any other dkms-dependent packages, you should remove all dkms-xxx. Akemi ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] dkms
> On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 11:13 AM, wrote: > >>> why dkms? >>> use nvidia-x11-drv-173xx and kmod-nvidia-173xx from elrepo, the kmod is >>> kabi-tracking. >> >> That's the one I think I'm using. Somehow, when I did my most recent >> update, to kernel 2.6.18-164.11.1.el5, or whenever it did an X update, I >> lose track, it installed dkms-nvidia-x11-drv. I want to prevent that >> update from occurring in the future... and I may need to do it on some >> users' systems, also with older nvidia cards. > > Try uninstalling the dkms stuff using yum like so: > > yum remove dkms-nvidia-x11-drv Did that, and it tried again. I finally had to rerun the build/install of the 173 package. > > If you do not have any other dkms-dependent packages, you should > remove all dkms-xxx. Mmmm... I was afraid to do that, not being sure what else it loads. However, if I rpm -qa | grep dkms, I only see dkms itself. I also see links in /etc/rc?.d to the /etc/init.d/dkms_autoinstaller, so I just used chkconfig to turn it off. That should fix me. But what else does dkms install? What's it there for, that it came in? Is it on by default, or did some recent update (the last month or so) turn it on? mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] dkms
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 12:37 PM, wrote: >> If you do not have any other dkms-dependent packages, you should >> remove all dkms-xxx. > > Mmmm... I was afraid to do that, not being sure what else it loads. > However, if I rpm -qa | grep dkms, I only see dkms itself. In that case, you can safely remove dkms. yum remove dkms After doing that, please show us the output of: ls -l `find /lib/modules -name nvidia.ko` Akemi ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] dkms
Akemi wrote: > On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 12:37 PM, wrote: > >>> If you do not have any other dkms-dependent packages, you should >>> remove all dkms-xxx. >> >> Mmmm... I was afraid to do that, not being sure what else it loads. >> However, if I rpm -qa | grep dkms, I only see dkms itself. > > In that case, you can safely remove dkms. > > yum remove dkms > The chkconfig stop ought to take care of its accidentally running. > After doing that, please show us the output of: > > ls -l `find /lib/modules -name nvidia.ko` How 'bout find /lib/modules -name nvidia.ko -ls? 309659070 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 48 Mar 18 09:48 /lib/modules/2.6.18-164.2.1.el5/weak-updates/nvidia.ko -> /lib/modules/2.6.18-164.11.1.el5/extra/nvidia.ko 310317300 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 48 Mar 18 09:48 /lib/modules/2.6.18-164.6.1.el5/weak-updates/nvidia.ko -> /lib/modules/2.6.18-164.11.1.el5/extra/nvidia.ko 310646730 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 48 Mar 18 09:48 /lib/modules/2.6.18-164.9.1.el5/weak-updates/nvidia.ko -> /lib/modules/2.6.18-164.11.1.el5/extra/nvidia.ko 30704811 12004 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 12270160 Jan 22 10:36 /lib/modules/2.6.18-164.10.1.el5/extra/nvidia.ko 30736857 11192 -rw-rw-r-- 1 root root 11437204 Jan 15 09:50 /lib/modules/2.6.18-164.10.1.el5/kernel/drivers/video/nvidia/nvidia.ko 310969470 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 48 Mar 18 09:48 /lib/modules/2.6.18-164.10.1.el5/weak-updates/nvidia.ko -> /lib/modules/2.6.18-164.11.1.el5/extra/nvidia.ko 30770916 11180 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11424810 Mar 18 10:09 /lib/modules/2.6.18-164.11.1.el5/kernel/drivers/video/nvidia.ko mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] dkms
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 12:56 PM, wrote: >> ls -l `find /lib/modules -name nvidia.ko` > > How 'bout find /lib/modules -name nvidia.ko -ls? > 30965907 0 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 48 Mar 18 09:48 > /lib/modules/2.6.18-164.2.1.el5/weak-updates/nvidia.ko -> > /lib/modules/2.6.18-164.11.1.el5/extra/nvidia.ko > 31031730 0 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 48 Mar 18 09:48 > /lib/modules/2.6.18-164.6.1.el5/weak-updates/nvidia.ko -> > /lib/modules/2.6.18-164.11.1.el5/extra/nvidia.ko > 31064673 0 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 48 Mar 18 09:48 > /lib/modules/2.6.18-164.9.1.el5/weak-updates/nvidia.ko -> > /lib/modules/2.6.18-164.11.1.el5/extra/nvidia.ko > 30704811 12004 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 12270160 Jan 22 10:36 > /lib/modules/2.6.18-164.10.1.el5/extra/nvidia.ko > 30736857 11192 -rw-rw-r-- 1 root root 11437204 Jan 15 09:50 > /lib/modules/2.6.18-164.10.1.el5/kernel/drivers/video/nvidia/nvidia.ko > 31096947 0 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 48 Mar 18 09:48 > /lib/modules/2.6.18-164.10.1.el5/weak-updates/nvidia.ko -> > /lib/modules/2.6.18-164.11.1.el5/extra/nvidia.ko > 30770916 11180 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11424810 Mar 18 10:09 > /lib/modules/2.6.18-164.11.1.el5/kernel/drivers/video/nvidia.ko It's a mess. :-( You have missing symlinks (If you run the original command, you'd see red-blinking lines). nvidia.ko built by dkms is still there, etc. If I were you, I would completely remove dkms and all nvidia.ko and symlinks above. Then do a clean install of the kmod package ( http://elrepo.org/tiki/kmod-nvidia-173xx ). Akemi ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] dkms
> On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 12:56 PM, wrote: > >>> ls -l `find /lib/modules -name nvidia.ko` >> >> How 'bout find /lib/modules -name nvidia.ko -ls? >> 30965907 0 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 48 Mar 18 09:48 >> /lib/modules/2.6.18-164.2.1.el5/weak-updates/nvidia.ko -> > It's a mess. :-( That's after I did a yum remove of the 184 (I think it was). > > You have missing symlinks (If you run the original command, you'd see > red-blinking lines). nvidia.ko built by dkms is still there, etc. > > If I were you, I would completely remove dkms and all nvidia.ko and > symlinks above. Then do a clean install of the kmod package ( > http://elrepo.org/tiki/kmod-nvidia-173xx ). Don't need that - I've got NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-173.14.20-pkg2.run from NVidia, I think, and I run that, and it rebuilds the drivers. I'll clean the leftover junk; that's a good idea, though. Thanks. mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] dkms
m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: >> On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 12:56 PM, wrote: >> ls -l `find /lib/modules -name nvidia.ko` >>> How 'bout find /lib/modules -name nvidia.ko -ls? >>> 309659070 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 48 Mar 18 09:48 >>> /lib/modules/2.6.18-164.2.1.el5/weak-updates/nvidia.ko -> > >> It's a mess. :-( > > That's after I did a yum remove of the 184 (I think it was). >> You have missing symlinks (If you run the original command, you'd see >> red-blinking lines). nvidia.ko built by dkms is still there, etc. >> >> If I were you, I would completely remove dkms and all nvidia.ko and >> symlinks above. Then do a clean install of the kmod package ( >> http://elrepo.org/tiki/kmod-nvidia-173xx ). > > Don't need that - I've got NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-173.14.20-pkg2.run from > NVidia, I think, and I run that, and it rebuilds the drivers. > The reason 2 people suggested you use the elrepo nvidia package(s) is so you don't have to rebuild the driver from the nvidia installer every time you update your kernel. The elrepo kmod-nvidia packages are kABI-tracking so will work seamlessly across kernel updates - will even work seamlessly for 5.5 when that is released too. So it's install once and forget, couldn't be easier. Furthermore, elrepo has the latest version of your driver (173.14.25) and you will continue to receive updates automatically through yum rather than having to manually update the driver from nvidia (if you were to even notice a new version has been released). ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS
John wrote: Alan, I knew of the Dell article, as I have all of those saved for reference. [1] I was just wondering if you knew of any that were for someone knew to Linux. You know the Microsoft type tutorials that have screenshot with them. That's the question I get asked a lot of times from around my home area. In turn when these users that are new to Linux they get discouraged when they can't visualy see pictures or have to edit some text file. They just use to doing things the M$ Way. CentOS could have a much broader user base (Huge), the biggest user base around if simple things like this could be done. i realize though it take volunteers to do this on the wiki. Hi John, Apologies for not being Alan ;) As an occasional Wiki author, I thought I'd offer you my personal insight on this topic. I try to write articles/documentation that is broad reaching hence why it tends to be command line based - not everyone has a GUI installed, so any guide that relies on GUI methods instantly fails to reach a section of the community. I firmly believe well written command line based documentation can and should be easy to follow, even for the novice user. Also, IMHO GUI-based tools are not always a good thing. I remember struggling with the horrible up2date GUI interface in my Red Hat Linux days. It was only a GUI frontend to RPM (??) but it was buggy as hell. It didn't take me long to figure out it was far easier to manually download updates by ftp and apply them with 'rpm -Fvh *.rpm'. Things evolve and now we can simply do 'yum update'. Why add an additional layer of complexity where it isn't needed? Whilst I sympathise with your observation, and I'm sure we all know users like that, CentOS isn't Windows and I wouldn't want it to be. I would rather we try to educate users to the Linux way of doing things rather than turn Linux into a Windows clone. I guess I feel the same about documentation to an extent. Ned ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS
On Saturday 05 April 2008 15:58, John wrote: > [1] I was just wondering if you knew of any that were for someone knew > to Linux. You know the Microsoft type tutorials that have screenshot > with them. That's the question I get asked a lot of times from around my > home area. On any subject you choose, try google with 'linux subjectname howto'. There are some really good ones out there. They may not be about your particular distro - some of the best ones are from gentoo people - but you'll find that for the most part they are extremely helpful. I understand why you want screenshots - in the early days there are language problems :-) Anne ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS
On Sat, 2008-04-05 at 16:49 +0100, Ned Slider wrote: > > John wrote: > > Alan, > > I knew of the Dell article, as I have all of those saved for reference. > > [1] I was just wondering if you knew of any that were for someone knew > > to Linux. You know the Microsoft type tutorials that have screenshot > > with them. That's the question I get asked a lot of times from around my > > home area. > > > > In turn when these users that are new to Linux they get discouraged when > > they can't visualy see pictures or have to edit some text file. They > > just use to doing things the M$ Way. CentOS could have a much broader > > user base (Huge), the biggest user base around if simple things like > > this could be done. i realize though it take volunteers to do this on > > the wiki. > > > > Hi John, > > Apologies for not being Alan ;) Got someones attention! That's great! > As an occasional Wiki author, I thought I'd offer you my personal > insight on this topic. I try to write articles/documentation that is > broad reaching hence why it tends to be command line based - not > everyone has a GUI installed, so any guide that relies on GUI methods > instantly fails to reach a section of the community. I firmly believe > well written command line based documentation can and should be easy to > follow, even for the novice user. Correct in ways; CentOS is more touted to a server based community. Yea the GUI method instanly Fails the experianced part of the community. My problem lies in this: People these days cant not afford or justify the cost of Windows. Those are the ones that CentOS makes the biggest impression on. Much less Microsoft Office. Who has a couple hundred dollars for that? > > Also, IMHO GUI-based tools are not always a good thing. I remember > struggling with the horrible up2date GUI interface in my Red Hat Linux > days. It was only a GUI frontend to RPM (??) but it was buggy as hell. > It didn't take me long to figure out it was far easier to manually > download updates by ftp and apply them with 'rpm -Fvh *.rpm'. Things > evolve and now we can simply do 'yum update'. The Apache GUI tool is broken it never works. The samba one don't always work. A text user interface intimidates a Windows user. That's like a new user installing CentOS to a machine that only has 128MBs of RAM. After complete install. what happens? It gets booted into runlevel 3 and they just said the heck with this. Yumex has involded just as well as Synaptic and just as good but the windows user knows nothing of it. Applications | Add Remove Software is about the limit for the new user. "Why add an additional layer of complexity where it isn't needed?" Apart from new users Windows system admins are even terrified of a command line. > > Whilst I sympathise with your observation, and I'm sure we all know > users like that, CentOS isn't Windows and I wouldn't want it to be. I > would rather we try to educate users to the Linux way of doing things > rather than turn Linux into a Windows clone. I guess I feel the same > about documentation to an extent. The catch here is feeding the new user little by little. Ease them into it and they will never know it I am not saying turn CentOS into a Windows Clone. Yes, I agree educating the user to the linux way of doing things Idea: A separate Wiki for the new users. Don't have links on it pointing external sites of how tos. Just have all the basic how tos; Burning the centos cdrom in windows with a open source tool like Infra View, Nero, or Easy CD Creator. Using the network GUI Config Tool for Dial Up Access and DSL or Cable Internet and Local Intranet. How to add a user with the GUI tool. Thing of this sort is like putting the iceing on the cake and keeping them and not letting them stay to another Distro. > Ned > > ___ > CentOS mailing list > CentOS@centos.org > http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos -- ~/john OpenPGP Sig:BA91F079 ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS
On Sat, 2008-04-05 at 17:10 +0100, Anne Wilson wrote: > On Saturday 05 April 2008 15:58, John wrote: > > [1] I was just wondering if you knew of any that were for someone knew > > to Linux. You know the Microsoft type tutorials that have screenshot > > with them. That's the question I get asked a lot of times from around my > > home area. > > On any subject you choose, try google with 'linux subjectname howto'. There > are some really good ones out there. They may not be about your particular > distro - some of the best ones are from gentoo people - but you'll find that > for the most part they are extremely helpful. Gentoo: You Hit the Nail on the Head. Ubuntu also. > > I understand why you want screenshots - in the early days there are language > problems :-) It's not really what I want. It is tons of other users. > > Anne > ___ > CentOS mailing list > CentOS@centos.org > http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos -- ~/john OpenPGP Sig:BA91F079 ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS
On 05/04/2008, Anne Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I understand why you want screenshots - in the early days there are > language > problems :-) As Anne says, above, "A picture is worth a thousand words." I agree. John wrote: > I knew of the Dell article, as I have all of those saved for reference. > [1] I was just wondering if you knew of any that were for someone knew > to Linux. You know the Microsoft type tutorials that have screenshot > with them. That's the question I get asked a lot of times from around my > home area. > Answering your question, John: Sorry, no. I don't know of any tutorials on this subject that would be appropriate for anyone new to a Linux based OS. When I initially read your request, I naively assumed you were asking for a straightforward document listing the dkms actions for your own use. On Sat, 2008-04-05 at 16:49 +0100, Ned Slider wrote: > Whilst I sympathise with your observation, and I'm sure we all know > users like that, CentOS isn't Windows and I wouldn't want it to be. I > would rather we try to educate users to the Linux way of doing things > rather than turn Linux into a Windows clone. I guess I feel the same > about documentation to an extent. Ned and I have a very similar point of view here. John's latest words: > Idea: A separate Wiki for the new users. Don't have links on it pointing > external sites of how tos. Just have all the basic how tos; Burning the > centos cdrom in windows with a open source tool like Infra View, Nero, > or Easy CD Creator. Using the network GUI Config Tool for Dial Up Access > and DSL or Cable Internet and Local Intranet. How to add a user with the > GUI tool. Thing of this sort is like putting the iceing on the cake and > keeping them and not letting them stay to another Distro. Ned, do I hear someone volunteering to write a new Wiki section? (I don't think a *separate* Wiki for the new users, be they M$ Windoze departees or not, is a good idea.) Perhaps this discussion should be continued on the CentOS-docs list? Alan. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS
On Sat, 2008-04-05 at 18:01 +0100, Alan Bartlett wrote: > On 05/04/2008, Anne Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I understand why you want screenshots - in the early days > there are language > problems :-) > > As Anne says, above, "A picture is worth a thousand words." I agree. > > > John wrote: > > I knew of the Dell article, as I have all of those saved for > reference. > [1] I was just wondering if you knew of any that were for > someone knew > to Linux. You know the Microsoft type tutorials that have > screenshot > with them. That's the question I get asked a lot of times from > around my > home area. > Answering your question, John: Sorry, no. I don't know of any > tutorials on this subject that would be appropriate for anyone new to > a Linux based OS. When I initially read your request, I naively > assumed you were asking for a straightforward document listing the > dkms actions for your own use. > > On Sat, 2008-04-05 at 16:49 +0100, Ned Slider wrote: > > Whilst I sympathise with your observation, and I'm sure we all know > > users like that, CentOS isn't Windows and I wouldn't want it to be. > I > > would rather we try to educate users to the Linux way of doing > things > > rather than turn Linux into a Windows clone. I guess I feel the same > > about documentation to an extent. > > Ned and I have a very similar point of view here. > > John's latest words: > > Idea: A separate Wiki for the new users. Don't have links on it > pointing > > external sites of how tos. Just have all the basic how tos; Burning > the > > centos cdrom in windows with a open source tool like Infra View, > Nero, > > or Easy CD Creator. Using the network GUI Config Tool for Dial Up > Access > > and DSL or Cable Internet and Local Intranet. How to add a user with > the > > GUI tool. Thing of this sort is like putting the iceing on the cake > and > > keeping them and not letting them stay to another Distro. > > Ned, do I hear someone volunteering to write a new Wiki section? (I > don't think a *separate* Wiki for the new users, be they M$ Windoze > departees or not, is a good idea.) Perhaps this discussion should be > continued on the CentOS-docs list? > > Alan Maybe I need to Subscribe to it later today. """Ned, do I hear someone volunteering to write a new Wiki section?""" Possibly So. I have the extra time on weekends to give to it. > . > ___ > CentOS mailing list > CentOS@centos.org > http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos -- ~/john OpenPGP Sig:BA91F079 ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS
John wrote: Idea: A separate Wiki for the new users. Don't have links on it pointing external sites of how tos. Just have all the basic how tos; Burning the centos cdrom in windows with a open source tool like Infra View, Nero, or Easy CD Creator. Using the network GUI Config Tool for Dial Up Access and DSL or Cable Internet and Local Intranet. How to add a user with the GUI tool. Thing of this sort is like putting the iceing on the cake and keeping them and not letting them stay to another Distro. Better yet, show how to do the same thing with 10 screenshots of mouseclicks and dialog boxes with the GUI or with a couple of command lines that they can paste from the tutorial into a command window. As soon as someone has to do it more than once, they'll start to appreciate the 2nd way. -- Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS
John wrote: The catch here is feeding the new user little by little. Ease them into it and they will never know it I am not saying turn CentOS into a Windows Clone. Yes, I agree educating the user to the linux way of doing things Some good feedback John. I'm thinking the choice of distro is key for the first time user. They need as much stuff to just work as possible so limiting the amount of tasks they need to initially perform to get the box running satisfactorily. Distros that have a strict interpretation of open source/GPL and don't include 3rd party proprietary drivers, plugins, applications etc probably aren't the easiest for new users. I believe there are distros out there that either include these by default or aim to make it very easy for users to add/enable them. Maybe one of these types of distros would be more suitable than CentOS, and allow new users a more shallow learning curve. Then, when they are a little more comfortable with their new OS they can think about migrating to a more "mature" distro such as CentOS. I often say to new users that learning Linux is like learning to speak a new language. Just because you are fluent in English, doesn't mean you will be able to pick up a novel written in French/German/Spanish and immediately read and/or understand it. The same is true here - those 10+ years of experience you have using Windows counts for nothing and doesn't entitle you to pick up a Linux CD and be able to use it - the learning curve is steep. I think people's expectations are unrealistic if they think they can throw in a Linux CD and expect to achieve everything they were able to do in Windows in a weekend. TBH, Windows is no different - you show me an average home user that's never used Windows before who could configure a network or printer. Just because PCs are sold as consumer items, doesn't make it so. If you went out and bought a new car, would you expect to be able to drive it home if you'd never had a driving lesson? I could go on with the analogies but I suspect I'm preaching to the converted and you understand the point :) ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS
On Sat, 2008-04-05 at 12:35 -0500, Les Mikesell wrote: > John wrote: > >> > > Idea: A separate Wiki for the new users. Don't have links on it pointing > > external sites of how tos. Just have all the basic how tos; Burning the > > centos cdrom in windows with a open source tool like Infra View, Nero, > > or Easy CD Creator. Using the network GUI Config Tool for Dial Up Access > > and DSL or Cable Internet and Local Intranet. How to add a user with the > > GUI tool. Thing of this sort is like putting the iceing on the cake and > > keeping them and not letting them stay to another Distro. > > Better yet, show how to do the same thing with 10 screenshots of > mouseclicks and dialog boxes with the GUI or with a couple of command > lines that they can paste from the tutorial into a command window. > > As soon as someone has to do it more than once, they'll start to > appreciate the 2nd way. No they will just give up on CentOS and go else where. If, (a big if) I were the Cent OS project Leader my biggest goal would be to attract the biggest user base possible. I'm sure he's trying the best he can now. (A Good Reason it is still around). Usability is everything. The is more than one way to skin a cat yes in deed. In theory the known GUIs that work, the configuration should only have to be done once and not a second time. Maybe I need to create GUI Frontends that just plain out work. As a side, note I do understand some things in Linux is not for the Faint at Heart. > > -- ~/john OpenPGP Sig:BA91F079 ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS
On Saturday 05 April 2008 18:18:47 John wrote: > > Ned, do I hear someone volunteering to write a new Wiki section? (I > > don't think a *separate* Wiki for the new users, be they M$ Windoze > > departees or not, is a good idea.) Perhaps this discussion should be > > continued on the CentOS-docs list? > > > > Alan > > Maybe I need to Subscribe to it later today. """Ned, do I hear someone > volunteering to write a new Wiki section?""" Possibly So. I have the > extra time on weekends to give to it. Now there's a point. I subscribed at the beginning of March and haven't received anything from them since 3rd March. I'd better try to find out why. Anne signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS
John wrote: Idea: A separate Wiki for the new users. Don't have links on it pointing external sites of how tos. Just have all the basic how tos; Burning the centos cdrom in windows with a open source tool like Infra View, Nero, or Easy CD Creator. Using the network GUI Config Tool for Dial Up Access and DSL or Cable Internet and Local Intranet. How to add a user with the GUI tool. Thing of this sort is like putting the iceing on the cake and keeping them and not letting them stay to another Distro. Better yet, show how to do the same thing with 10 screenshots of mouseclicks and dialog boxes with the GUI or with a couple of command lines that they can paste from the tutorial into a command window. As soon as someone has to do it more than once, they'll start to appreciate the 2nd way. No they will just give up on CentOS and go else where. By 'doing it more than once' I meant on a second machine, something a lot of people have even for home/family use. In a GUI, things are just as slow and cumbersome every time, no matter how many times you do them. On the command line, if you saved the commands - or got them from an instructional listing in the first place, you just paste the same set of commands into a terminal window. If, (a big if) I were the Cent OS project Leader my biggest goal would be to attract the biggest user base possible. I'm sure he's trying the best he can now. (A Good Reason it is still around). Usability is everything. The is more than one way to skin a cat yes in deed. In theory the known GUIs that work, the configuration should only have to be done once and not a second time. Once on every machine. Every time you install an OS. And being a new user is a one-time thing. Maybe I need to create GUI Frontends that just plain out work. As a side, note I do understand some things in Linux is not for the Faint at Heart. One things GUIs can do is present a bunch of pre-set defaults or pick up the current settings so you only have to change a few particular items, and they can check the ranges and syntax of the entries before trying to apply them. Webmin does a fair job on this considering the wild variation in the applications it offers to manage, but you still have to generally understand what the application does and what the options mean in order to use it. A task-oriented tutorial using webmin might get people through some operations where they'd have trouble with man pages. -- Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS
On Sat, 2008-04-05 at 19:17 +0100, Anne Wilson wrote: > On Saturday 05 April 2008 18:18:47 John wrote: > > > Ned, do I hear someone volunteering to write a new Wiki section? (I > > > don't think a *separate* Wiki for the new users, be they M$ Windoze > > > departees or not, is a good idea.) Perhaps this discussion should be > > > continued on the CentOS-docs list? > > > > > > Alan > > > > Maybe I need to Subscribe to it later today. """Ned, do I hear someone > > volunteering to write a new Wiki section?""" Possibly So. I have the > > extra time on weekends to give to it. > > Now there's a point. I subscribed at the beginning of March and haven't > received anything from them since 3rd March. I'd better try to find out why. > > Anne Anne you have to make an account on the Wiki then subcribe to the Docs List. i just made one. Maybe their a lil slow or lazy? LOL > ___ > CentOS mailing list > CentOS@centos.org > http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos -- ~/john OpenPGP Sig:BA91F079 ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS
On Saturday 05 April 2008 19:47:43 John wrote: > > Now there's a point. I subscribed at the beginning of March and haven't > > received anything from them since 3rd March. I'd better try to find out > > why. > > > > Anne > > Anne you have to make an account on the Wiki then subcribe to the Docs > List. i just made one. > Maybe their a lil slow or lazy? LOL I did. I have 7 messages over a period of two days, then nada. Anne signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS
On 05/04/2008, Les Mikesell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On the command line, if you saved the commands - or got them from an > instructional listing in the first place, you just paste the same set of > commands into a terminal window. Three comments from me: (1) Regarding what Les wrote (above), I can say that the three Wiki "Kernel" HowTos have been written in such a way that the command lines shown in those articles *can* be copied (from a GUI) and pasted (into a CLI/TUI). I'm sure that same is true for many other WIki articles. (2) We must not loose sight of what CentOS basically is. CentOS == RHEL less RH. A stable, server orientated OS. On the fora, we often see evidence that CentOS is believed to be similar to *other* distros (that are more suitable for laptops & "home" use) and that it, CentOS, can be loaded onto typical laptops or home PCs. Then the grumbling starts about the non-operation of a bottom-of-the-range NIC or video controller or how multi-media doesn't work straight out of the box. The complaints that really irritate me are those that end with ". . . . whilst 'foo' (or 'bar' or 'xyzzy' or 'y2') runs o.k. on my hardware. So why doesn't CentOS?" (3) The CentOS-docs list. Anne, the last item I received was dated April 3rd. Alan. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS
On Sat, 2008-04-05 at 13:25 -0500, Les Mikesell wrote: > John wrote: > > > >>> Idea: A separate Wiki for the new users. Don't have links on it pointing > >>> external sites of how tos. Just have all the basic how tos; Burning the > >>> centos cdrom in windows with a open source tool like Infra View, Nero, > >>> or Easy CD Creator. Using the network GUI Config Tool for Dial Up Access > >>> and DSL or Cable Internet and Local Intranet. How to add a user with the > >>> GUI tool. Thing of this sort is like putting the iceing on the cake and > >>> keeping them and not letting them stay to another Distro. > >> Better yet, show how to do the same thing with 10 screenshots of > >> mouseclicks and dialog boxes with the GUI or with a couple of command > >> lines that they can paste from the tutorial into a command window. > >> > >> As soon as someone has to do it more than once, they'll start to > >> appreciate the 2nd way. > > > > No they will just give up on CentOS and go else where. > > By 'doing it more than once' I meant on a second machine, something a > lot of people have even for home/family use. In a GUI, things are just > as slow and cumbersome every time, no matter how many times you do them. > On the command line, if you saved the commands - or got them from an > instructional listing in the first place, you just paste the same set of > commands into a terminal window. > > > If, (a big if) I > > were the Cent OS project Leader my biggest goal would be to attract the > > biggest user base possible. I'm sure he's trying the best he can now. (A > > Good Reason it is still around). Usability is everything. The is more > > than one way to skin a cat yes in deed. > > > > In theory the known GUIs that work, the configuration should only have > > to be done once and not a second time. > > Once on every machine. Every time you install an OS. And being a new > user is a one-time thing. > > > Maybe I need to create GUI > > Frontends that just plain out work. > > As a side, note I do understand some things in Linux is not for the > > Faint at Heart. > > One things GUIs can do is present a bunch of pre-set defaults or pick up > the current settings so you only have to change a few particular items, > and they can check the ranges and syntax of the entries before trying to > apply them. Webmin does a fair job on this considering the wild > variation in the applications it offers to manage, but you still have to > generally understand what the application does and what the options mean > in order to use it. A task-oriented tutorial using webmin might get > people through some operations where they'd have trouble with man pages. Case in Point Here Now: My sister has been using Linux for a year now. I can see her now when I tell her to install Webmin, Open a Browser and type http://localhost:port_number. Now that's getting into Admin territory not the user base. Although that's a better idea than most would concieve of. When she needs something done that does not have a GUI or Pictorial directions it's like me baby sitting my son hand in hand. Having things of this nature is saying CentOS is Competent Enough to stand on its' own two feet and not rely on the outside world for how to do something. Ahh, there was mention of the User Documentation in another mail from March, that for some of it I even can't make heads or tails out of it. Some things still need a How To where it is in the User Docs or not. > -- ~/john OpenPGP Sig:BA91F079 ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS
On Sat, 2008-04-05 at 20:02 +0100, Alan Bartlett wrote: > On 05/04/2008, Les Mikesell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On the command line, if you saved the commands - or got them > from an instructional listing in the first place, you just > paste the same set of commands into a terminal window. > > Three comments from me: > > (1) Regarding what Les wrote (above), I can say that the three Wiki > "Kernel" HowTos have been written in such a way that the command lines > shown in those articles *can* be copied (from a GUI) and pasted (into > a CLI/TUI). I'm sure that same is true for many other WIki articles. > > (2) We must not loose sight of what CentOS basically is. CentOS == > RHEL less RH. A stable, server orientated OS. On the fora, we often > see evidence that CentOS is believed to be similar to *other* distros > (that are more suitable for laptops & "home" use) and that it, CentOS, > can be loaded onto typical laptops or home PCs. Then the grumbling > starts about the non-operation of a bottom-of-the-range NIC or video > controller or how multi-media doesn't work straight out of the box. > The complaints that really irritate me are those that end with > ". . . . whilst 'foo' (or 'bar' or 'xyzzy' or 'y2') runs o.k. on my > hardware. So why doesn't CentOS?" "So why doesn't CentOS?" CentOS is for High End Server Hardware. The most attracted feature it has to a new user is "my computer has been running for a whole week. "Stability" Windows begs for that. The most disliked option for CentOS that I see was the option to not do a spin of the Client, Workstation and Server versions. Ohh, how it was so easy for me to tell a client get the Workstation version and Select install everything. I guess the reason for doing so was not enough resources. Similar to other Distros: CentOS Does not even begin to compare to the usability of Ubuntu. But what can you say? Ubuntu is backed by a Multi Million Dollar Company. Multimedia: I'll save that one for later. :-) I have an idea for that... > (3) The CentOS-docs list. Anne, the last item I received was dated > April 3rd. > > Alan. > > > > > ___ > CentOS mailing list > CentOS@centos.org > http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos -- ~/john OpenPGP Sig:BA91F079 ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS
Alan Bartlett wrote: (2) We must not loose sight of what CentOS basically is. CentOS == RHEL less RH. A stable, server orientated OS. On the fora, we often see evidence that CentOS is believed to be similar to *other* distros (that are more suitable for laptops & "home" use) and that it, CentOS, can be loaded onto typical laptops or home PCs. Then the grumbling starts about the non-operation of a bottom-of-the-range NIC or video controller or how multi-media doesn't work straight out of the box. The complaints that really irritate me are those that end with ". . . . whilst 'foo' (or 'bar' or 'xyzzy' or 'y2') runs o.k. on my hardware. So why doesn't CentOS?" This is more a symptom of the kernel age than anything else, and with the backported drivers that sometimes end up in CentOS, this is subject to change as the minor version numbers get their install images rebuilt. And with the CentOS plus kernel, this doesn't necessarily track RHEL exactly either. Is there a place to find out whether a certain piece of hardware will work that stays up to date with the updates? -- Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS
John wrote: >> One things GUIs can do is present a bunch of pre-set defaults or pick up the current settings so you only have to change a few particular items, and they can check the ranges and syntax of the entries before trying to apply them. Webmin does a fair job on this considering the wild variation in the applications it offers to manage, but you still have to generally understand what the application does and what the options mean in order to use it. A task-oriented tutorial using webmin might get people through some operations where they'd have trouble with man pages. Case in Point Here Now: My sister has been using Linux for a year now. I can see her now when I tell her to install Webmin, Open a Browser and type http://localhost:port_number. There's an rpm for the webmin package (somewhere...) and you can bookmark the browser link. The remaining problem is that all it really can do is help you get the syntax right. Now that's getting into Admin territory not the user base. Although that's a better idea than most would concieve of. The issue that isn't going to go away even if you try to cover it up is that you have the full range of administrative decisions and commands at your disposal and, depending on what you want to change, you may need them. When she needs something done that does not have a GUI or Pictorial directions it's like me baby sitting my son hand in hand. The first question is what a new user needs that isn't done by default and fix it so it doesn't need to be done at all. The only problematic parts are the ones that need questionably legal components (mutimedia codecs, etc.). Having things of this nature is saying CentOS is Competent Enough to stand on its' own two feet and not rely on the outside world for how to do something. But, is the 'something' you want to do more like picking out a cold remedy from the corner drugstore or doing major surgery. You have the full range of tools for both, but some details need a little more thought than others. Ahh, there was mention of the User Documentation in another mail from March, that for some of it I even can't make heads or tails out of it. Some things still need a How To where it is in the User Docs or not. 'Some things' is a pretty broad range. -- Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS
On Sat, 2008-04-05 at 14:54 -0500, Les Mikesell wrote: > Alan Bartlett wrote: > > > > (2) We must not loose sight of what CentOS basically is. CentOS == RHEL less > > RH. A stable, server orientated OS. On the fora, we often see evidence that > > CentOS is believed to be similar to *other* distros (that are more suitable > > for laptops & "home" use) and that it, CentOS, can be loaded onto typical > > laptops or home PCs. Then the grumbling starts about the non-operation of a > > bottom-of-the-range NIC or video controller or how multi-media doesn't work > > straight out of the box. The complaints that really irritate me are those > > that end with ". . . . whilst 'foo' (or 'bar' or 'xyzzy' or 'y2') runs o.k. > > on my hardware. So why doesn't CentOS?" > > This is more a symptom of the kernel age than anything else, and with > the backported drivers that sometimes end up in CentOS, this is subject > to change as the minor version numbers get their install images rebuilt. >And with the CentOS plus kernel, this doesn't necessarily track RHEL > exactly either. Is there a place to find out whether a certain piece of > hardware will work that stays up to date with the updates? > I thought you can get a list of the provided modules with each kernel update from the kernel source code it self. for instance. go to the directory in question and execute #] ls >log then you have a complete text listing of them. The Kernel Developer should have a list of such drivers to work. "He or She would have to. Wouldn't they?? -- ~/john OpenPGP Sig:BA91F079 ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS
On Sat, 2008-04-05 at 14:54 -0500, Les Mikesell wrote: > Alan Bartlett wrote: > > > > (2) We must not loose sight of what CentOS basically is. CentOS == RHEL less > > RH. A stable, server orientated OS. On the fora, we often see evidence that > > CentOS is believed to be similar to *other* distros (that are more suitable > > for laptops & "home" use) and that it, CentOS, can be loaded onto typical > > laptops or home PCs. Then the grumbling starts about the non-operation of a > > bottom-of-the-range NIC or video controller or how multi-media doesn't work > > straight out of the box. The complaints that really irritate me are those > > that end with ". . . . whilst 'foo' (or 'bar' or 'xyzzy' or 'y2') runs o.k. > > on my hardware. So why doesn't CentOS?" > > This is more a symptom of the kernel age than anything else, and with > the backported drivers that sometimes end up in CentOS, this is subject > to change as the minor version numbers get their install images rebuilt. >And with the CentOS plus kernel, this doesn't necessarily track RHEL > exactly either. Is there a place to find out whether a certain piece of > hardware will work that stays up to date with the updates? Ignore the ls >log command. it would take a lil more than that after looking at the kernell source code. Slightly bit more complicated than that. > -- ~/john OpenPGP Sig:BA91F079 ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS
On Sat, 2008-04-05 at 15:12 -0500, Les Mikesell wrote: > John wrote: > > >> One things GUIs can do is present a bunch of pre-set defaults or pick up > >> the current settings so you only have to change a few particular items, > >> and they can check the ranges and syntax of the entries before trying to > >> apply them. Webmin does a fair job on this considering the wild > >> variation in the applications it offers to manage, but you still have to > >> generally understand what the application does and what the options mean > >> in order to use it. A task-oriented tutorial using webmin might get > >> people through some operations where they'd have trouble with man pages. > > > > Case in Point Here Now: My sister has been using Linux for a year now. I > > can see her now when I tell her to install Webmin, Open a Browser and > > type http://localhost:port_number. > > There's an rpm for the webmin package (somewhere...) and you can > bookmark the browser link. The remaining problem is that all it really > can do is help you get the syntax right. Well that's a women for you though. Now I just started an argument. But wait that is only just One not all of you women. > > > Now that's getting into Admin > > territory not the user base. Although that's a better idea than most > > would concieve of. > > The issue that isn't going to go away even if you try to cover it up is > that you have the full range of administrative decisions and commands at > your disposal and, depending on what you want to change, you may need > them. But 75% don't know how to. All they know is they downloaded the cds. Took them a week to figure out how to make a bootable install disk. Then finally 24 hours to install the OS. Six hours to get on the Internet. Another 5 hours to setup email. Email is a good one "Evolution" I can devote time to that also. Configuration with something like GMail. > > > When she needs something done that does not have a GUI or Pictorial > > directions it's like me baby sitting my son hand in hand. > > The first question is what a new user needs that isn't done by default > and fix it so it doesn't need to be done at all. The only problematic > parts are the ones that need questionably legal components (mutimedia > codecs, etc.). Would be nice to have a Multimedia Install Disk??? But then there's all the Legal questions > > > Having things > > of this nature is saying CentOS is Competent Enough to stand on its' own > > two feet and not rely on the outside world for how to do something. > > But, is the 'something' you want to do more like picking out a cold > remedy from the corner drugstore or doing major surgery. You have the > full range of tools for both, but some details need a little more > thought than others. I'll send a mail to the Docs List for discussion of a few. > > > Ahh, there was mention of the User Documentation in another mail from > > March, that for some of it I even can't make heads or tails out of it. > > Some things still need a How To where it is in the User Docs or not. > > 'Some things' is a pretty broad range. > -- ~/john OpenPGP Sig:BA91F079 ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS
On Saturday 05 April 2008 20:02:08 Alan Bartlett wrote: > (3) The CentOS-docs list. Anne, the last item I received was dated April > 3rd. In the morning I'll go to the member prefs page and see if I can see what's wrong. Thanks Anne signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS
On Saturday 05 April 2008 22:13, Anne Wilson wrote: > On Saturday 05 April 2008 20:02:08 Alan Bartlett wrote: > > (3) The CentOS-docs list. Anne, the last item I received was dated April > > 3rd. > > In the morning I'll go to the member prefs page and see if I can see what's > wrong. Thanks > Nothing to do with prefs. A procmail error. Duh! I should have realised long before this. Anne ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS
John wrote on Sat, 05 Apr 2008 16:52:03 -0400: > But 75% don't know how to. All they know is they downloaded the cds. > Took them a week to figure out how to make a bootable install disk. Then > finally 24 hours to install the OS. Six hours to get on the Internet. > Another 5 hours to setup email. CentOS is *not* for users new to Linux or Unix-like operatings systems. It isn't. Full stop. Kai -- Kai Schätzl, Berlin, Germany Get your web at Conactive Internet Services: http://www.conactive.com ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
RE: [CentOS] DKMS
Kai Schaetzl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > CentOS is *not* for users new to Linux or Unix-like operatings > systems. It isn't. Full stop. Hopefully what you mean is that it isn't designed specifically for users that are new to Linux. It is a perfectly fine distribution for those wanting to learn Linux, though the learning curve may be a bit steep. Is there any distro designed to train new Linux users? robert ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
RE: [CentOS] DKMS
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Becker Cope Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 8:51 AM To: centos@centos.org Subject: RE: [CentOS] DKMS Kai Schaetzl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > CentOS is *not* for users new to Linux or Unix-like operatings > systems. It isn't. Full stop. Hopefully what you mean is that it isn't designed specifically for users that are new to Linux. It is a perfectly fine distribution for those wanting to learn Linux, though the learning curve may be a bit steep. Is there any distro designed to train new Linux users? Robert No there is none in my opinion. CentOS Like RHEL is realy a network operating system. Thus, supporting server applications mainly. IMHP, I would recommend a new user to it. Why? Because it is a top notch Enterprise OS on the Desktop and Server. I believe with the right education, teaching and awareness the user has endless options unlike with a Microsoft OS. All of that depends on how the community responds to helping and providing help, which is slowly evolving. Your going to see a lot more "New Users" at the End of Life for Windows XP. I realy do not think people want to fork out 300 - 400 dollars for Vista... John ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS
Robert Becker Cope wrote: Kai Schaetzl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: CentOS is *not* for users new to Linux or Unix-like operatings systems. It isn't. Full stop. Hopefully what you mean is that it isn't designed specifically for users that are new to Linux. It is a perfectly fine distribution for those wanting to learn Linux, though the learning curve may be a bit steep. Is there any distro designed to train new Linux users? robert I think that depends on what the new user wants or expects from Linux. Sure there are distro's that attempt to hide or eliminate the exposure of new users to the command line, or choose to install 3rd party (non GPL/OS) stuff by default, or at least make it easy to do so from preconfigured repos. Many (desktop) users converting from that other popular OS seem to expect things like multimedia support, 3rd party drivers, wireless etc to work out of the box by default, or at least be easy to install without having to resort to foreign commands on the command line (they easily forget none of these things worked on their previous OS out of the box!). Those users don't see the power of the command line and see it as a backwards step. It's easy to forget there is now a whole generation of computer users who have known nothing but the GUI and completely missed out on DOS or CP/M, and never owned a Spectrum/Commodore/BBC Micro etc. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS
Kai Schaetzl wrote on Sun, 27 Apr 2008 12:31:14 +0200: > John wrote on Sat, 05 Apr 2008 16:52:03 -0400: Hm, just to clarify, I don't know where this message came from, I wrote it weeks ago. It must have been on hold and accidently released much too late. Obviously, it doesn't make sense to add such a comment to an old thread three weeks later. Kai -- Kai Schätzl, Berlin, Germany Get your web at Conactive Internet Services: http://www.conactive.com ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS
On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 7:24 AM, Ned Slider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It's easy > to forget there is now a whole generation of computer users who have known > nothing but the GUI and completely missed out on DOS or CP/M, and never > owned a Spectrum/Commodore/BBC Micro etc. Wow, Ned, I never thought you were old enough to remember any of those. And this kind of statement usually triggers a long thread because of the people who want to prove they are the oldest and the wisest. However, no such competition works out in the CentOS community -- because no one can beat orc_orc (Russ Herrold). Famous quote: "He is older than all of us combined" (by z00dax) Akemi ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS
Akemi Yagi wrote: On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 7:24 AM, Ned Slider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It's easy to forget there is now a whole generation of computer users who have known nothing but the GUI and completely missed out on DOS or CP/M, and never owned a Spectrum/Commodore/BBC Micro etc. Wow, Ned, I never thought you were old enough to remember any of those. And this kind of statement usually triggers a long thread because of the people who want to prove they are the oldest and the wisest. However, no such competition works out in the CentOS community -- because no one can beat orc_orc (Russ Herrold). Famous quote: "He is older than all of us combined" (by z00dax) Akemi /OT LOL @ the quote! I particularly liked the way you used "Ned" and "wisest" in the same paragraph, but you may need to work on the context :D ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
RE: [CentOS] DKMS
It was a Bounced message. John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kai Schaetzl Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 2:31 PM To: centos@centos.org Subject: Re: [CentOS] DKMS Kai Schaetzl wrote on Sun, 27 Apr 2008 12:31:14 +0200: > John wrote on Sat, 05 Apr 2008 16:52:03 -0400: Hm, just to clarify, I don't know where this message came from, I wrote it weeks ago. It must have been on hold and accidently released much too late. Obviously, it doesn't make sense to add such a comment to an old thread three weeks later. Kai -- Kai Schätzl, Berlin, Germany Get your web at Conactive Internet Services: http://www.conactive.com ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS and new(er) Nvidia-drivers
on 4-6-2009 5:55 AM Sorin Srbu spake the following: > I got the DKMS-system working and now have the Nvidia-drivers v173.08 > installed (using rpmforge as suggested previously). Unfortunately this > particular driver version gives me screen artifacts so as to make the screen > more or less unreadable. > > Nvidia's proprietary drivers are now up to v180.44 and this version is fine > with my test system. > > I really like the DKMS-system, as it enables me to keep kernel and > gfx-drivers up-to-date on our course-lab computers doing 3D-molecular > modeling. However if I can't make use of newer, and better, drivers this > whole thing is borked for me... 8-/ > > My question is who updates those drivers, as the v173.08 Nvidia drivers are > now almost a year old? Would there be any other good repo with more current > drivers suitable for use with DKMS and CentOS? > The repos I found are tagged with PCLinux, Mandriva and Ubuntu to name > a few. > I'm not quite sure these rpms would work with CentOS and the dkms install > there. > > Any hints appreciated. Thanks. > You could always try and make a newer version yourself using the old one as a template. Here is some help; http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6896 http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/power/1q04-ler.pdf http://linux.dell.com/dkms/dkms-ols2004.pdf signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS and new(er) Nvidia-drivers
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 11:19 AM, Scott Silva wrote: > on 4-6-2009 5:55 AM Sorin Srbu spake the following: >> My question is who updates those drivers, as the v173.08 Nvidia drivers are >> now almost a year old? Would there be any other good repo with more current >> drivers suitable for use with DKMS and CentOS? >> Any hints appreciated. Thanks. You might want to ask for a newer version on the rpmforge mailing list: http://lists.rpmforge.net/mailman/listinfo/suggest > You could always try and make a newer version yourself using the old one as a > template. Here is some help; There is a CentOS wiki how to build kernel modules (see section 2 for DKMS): http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/BuildingKernelModules Akemi ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS and new(er) Nvidia-drivers
>-Original Message- >From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On Behalf >Of Scott Silva >Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 8:19 PM >To: centos@centos.org >Subject: Re: [CentOS] DKMS and new(er) Nvidia-drivers > >on 4-6-2009 5:55 AM Sorin Srbu spake the following: >> I got the DKMS-system working and now have the Nvidia-drivers v173.08 >> installed (using rpmforge as suggested previously). Unfortunately this >> particular driver version gives me screen artifacts so as to make the >> screen >> more or less unreadable. >> >You could always try and make a newer version yourself using the old one as a >template. Here is some help; > >http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6896 > >http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/power/1q04-ler.pdf > >http://linux.dell.com/dkms/dkms-ols2004.pdf Ok, thanks. I'll see if I can some sense of the instructions. 8-) Strangely enough, only the systems running an Amd cpu gives the screen artefacts. Go figure... smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS and new(er) Nvidia-drivers
>-Original Message- >From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On Behalf >Of Akemi Yagi >Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 8:44 PM >To: CentOS mailing list >Subject: Re: [CentOS] DKMS and new(er) Nvidia-drivers > >>> My question is who updates those drivers, as the v173.08 Nvidia drivers are >>> now almost a year old? Would there be any other good repo with more current >>> drivers suitable for use with DKMS and CentOS? > >You might want to ask for a newer version on the rpmforge mailing list: > >http://lists.rpmforge.net/mailman/listinfo/suggest I've been lurking there for a while, working up the nerve to ask. 8-} >> You could always try and make a newer version yourself using the old one as a >> template. Here is some help; > >There is a CentOS wiki how to build kernel modules (see section 2 for DKMS): > >http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/BuildingKernelModules Thanks. I'll look into this one as well. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS and new(er) Nvidia-drivers
Sorin Srbu wrote: >> -Original Message- >> From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On Behalf >> Of Scott Silva >> Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 8:19 PM >> To: centos@centos.org >> Subject: Re: [CentOS] DKMS and new(er) Nvidia-drivers >> >> on 4-6-2009 5:55 AM Sorin Srbu spake the following: >>> I got the DKMS-system working and now have the Nvidia-drivers v173.08 >>> installed (using rpmforge as suggested previously). Unfortunately this >>> particular driver version gives me screen artifacts so as to make the >>> screen >>> more or less unreadable. >>> >> You could always try and make a newer version yourself using the old one as a >> template. Here is some help; >> >> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6896 >> >> http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/power/1q04-ler.pdf >> >> http://linux.dell.com/dkms/dkms-ols2004.pdf > > Ok, thanks. I'll see if I can some sense of the instructions. 8-) > > Strangely enough, only the systems running an Amd cpu gives the screen > artefacts. Go figure... What the artifacts? I switched to the DKMS module in rpmforge and am running an AMD CPU. Only think I've noticed is a weird issue with the cursor in thunderbird, I don't know if that is nvidia related or not though. It is annoying and I don't recall it being there before I updated the driver. Asus M2N board AMD X2 CPU (I think a 5200 - I forget - 2.6 GHz) nVidia Corporation NV42 [GeForce 6800 XT] (rev a2) nvidia-x11-drv-173.08-1.beta.el5.rf kernel 2.6.18-128.1.6.el5 x86_64 ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS and new(er) Nvidia-drivers
FWIW, I don't use DKMS but this homegrown script instead. I put
whatever version of the driver I want to deploy (currently NVIDIA-
Linux-x86-180.44-pkg1.run) in a network accessible location and
create a link named NVIDIA-Linux-x86-latest to it. The script then
handles the rest.
Alfred
#!/bin/sh
#
# This script checks to ensure that the NVIDIA driver has been
# installed (it's needed for every new kernel)
# chkconfig: 345 50 98
# description: Runs the NVIDIA installer if needed
# Source function library.
. /etc/init.d/functions
script=/tmp/nvidia-config-$$.sh
installer=/network/path/to/NVIDIA-Linux-x86-latest
# Function to check if NVIDIA card is present on this system
nvidia_card_present() {
/sbin/lspci | grep -qi nvidia
return $?
}
# Function to check if NVIDIA kernel module has been installed
nvidia_module_installed() {
if [ -r /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel/drivers/video/nvidia.ko ];
then
return 0
else
return 1
fi
}
# See how we were called.
case "$1" in
start|restart)
if nvidia_card_present; then
if nvidia_module_installed; then
action "Configuring NVIDIA driver: " /bin/true
else
if [ -x $installer ]; then
/bin/echo "#!/bin/sh" > $script
/bin/echo "$installer -s -X &> /tmp/nvidia-install-\$\$.log
2>&1" >> $script
/bin/chmod +x $script
action "Configuring NVIDIA driver: " $script
/bin/rm -f $script
else
action "Configuring NVIDIA driver: " /bin/false
fi
fi
else
action "Configuring NVIDIA driver: " /bin/true
fi
;;
stop)
# Nothing to do
;;
status)
if nvidia_card_present; then
if nvidia_module_installed; then
/bin/echo "The NVIDIA driver has been installed successfully"
else
/bin/echo "The NVIDIA driver has not been installed successfully"
fi
else
/bin/echo "The NVIDIA driver is not required on this system"
fi
;;
*)
/bin/echo "Usage: `basename "$0"` {start|stop|status|restart}"
exit 1
esac
exit 0
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Re: [CentOS] DKMS and new(er) Nvidia-drivers
>-Original Message- >From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On Behalf >Of Michael A. Peters >Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 5:57 PM >To: CentOS mailing list >Subject: Re: [CentOS] DKMS and new(er) Nvidia-drivers > >> Strangely enough, only the systems running an Amd cpu gives the screen >> artefacts. Go figure... > >What the artifacts? >I switched to the DKMS module in rpmforge and am running an AMD CPU. >Only think I've noticed is a weird issue with the cursor in thunderbird, >I don't know if that is nvidia related or not though. It is annoying and >I don't recall it being there before I updated the driver. Diagonal thin black lines originating from upper left corner for starters. Then if I open a gui, whatever sort, that window gets those lines too. Menus are unreadable because of this, but slightly more readable if I move the mouse pointer over the menu entry. The lines tend to go away for a short while if I log off and log on again. Weird thing is that the lines are always diagonal and tend to always originate from the upper left corner of whatever window. This is with gnome mind you, and *supposedly* this one is the most stable of all the desktop environments. Haven't tried with KDE and xfce. Can't tell for sure if it's gnome or the Nvidia drivers specifically, but I'm leaning towards the drivers. It's not a hardware issue, as I've run rhel3 on the same machines w/o any artifacts. The hardware's two-three year old Asus mobo with a single-core AMD x64 and a rather feisty Nvidia Quadra gfx card. Don't have the exact details right now, but it should give a hint or two. All the P4-machines, as well as the i7-boxes, seem to work fine with dkms. -- /Sorin smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS and new(er) Nvidia-drivers
>-Original Message- >From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On Behalf >Of Alfred von Campe >Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 7:51 PM >To: CentOS mailing list >Subject: Re: [CentOS] DKMS and new(er) Nvidia-drivers > >FWIW, I don't use DKMS but this homegrown script instead. I put >whatever version of the driver I want to deploy (currently NVIDIA- >Linux-x86-180.44-pkg1.run) in a network accessible location and >create a link named NVIDIA-Linux-x86-latest to it. The script then >handles the rest. You still need to be root to do this, right? Seems nifty in any case. Thanks! -- /Sorin smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS and new(er) Nvidia-drivers
On Wed, 2009-04-15 at 10:08 +0200, Sorin Srbu wrote: > >-Original Message- > >From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On > Behalf > >Of Michael A. Peters > >Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 5:57 PM > >To: CentOS mailing list > >Subject: Re: [CentOS] DKMS and new(er) Nvidia-drivers > > > >> Strangely enough, only the systems running an Amd cpu gives the screen > >> artefacts. Go figure... > > > >What the artifacts? > >I switched to the DKMS module in rpmforge and am running an AMD CPU. > >Only think I've noticed is a weird issue with the cursor in thunderbird, > >I don't know if that is nvidia related or not though. It is annoying and > >I don't recall it being there before I updated the driver. > > Diagonal thin black lines originating from upper left corner for starters. > Then if I open a gui, whatever sort, that window gets those lines too. Menus > are unreadable because of this, but slightly more readable if I move the > mouse pointer over the menu entry. The lines tend to go away for a short > while if I log off and log on again. Weird thing is that the lines are > always diagonal and tend to always originate from the upper left corner of > whatever window. > > This is with gnome mind you, and *supposedly* this one is the most stable of > all the desktop environments. Haven't tried with KDE and xfce. Can't tell > for sure if it's gnome or the Nvidia drivers specifically, but I'm leaning > towards the drivers. > > It's not a hardware issue, as I've run rhel3 on the same machines w/o any > artifacts. > > The hardware's two-three year old Asus mobo with a single-core AMD x64 and a > rather feisty Nvidia Quadra gfx card. Don't have the exact details right > now, but it should give a hint or two. All the P4-machines, as well as the > i7-boxes, seem to work fine with dkms. --- No none of that is hardware issues. It is issues with the Nvidia Driver it self. Some or all of those issues can be solved by Downgrading the driver it self. All this is in the documentation and are known problems on both Linux and Windows. JohnStanley ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS and new(er) Nvidia-drivers
>-Original Message- >From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On Behalf >Of JohnS >Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 5:52 PM >To: CentOS mailing list >Subject: Re: [CentOS] DKMS and new(er) Nvidia-drivers > >No none of that is hardware issues. It is issues with the Nvidia Driver >it self. > >Some or all of those issues can be solved by Downgrading the driver it >self. All this is in the documentation and are known problems on both >Linux and Windows. I've tried a few different versions of the proprietary driver with no effect. IIRC even the "nv" driver gives me these problems. Oh, well, I'll try some more versions. Maybe I'm lucky. ;-) -- /Sorin smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS and new(er) Nvidia-drivers
On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 1:08 AM, Sorin Srbu wrote: > > Diagonal thin black lines originating from upper left corner for starters. > Then if I open a gui, whatever sort, that window gets those lines too. Menus > are unreadable because of this, but slightly more readable if I move the > mouse pointer over the menu entry. The lines tend to go away for a short > while if I log off and log on again. Weird thing is that the lines are > always diagonal and tend to always originate from the upper left corner of > whatever window. > > This is with gnome mind you, and *supposedly* this one is the most stable of > all the desktop environments. Haven't tried with KDE and xfce. Can't tell > for sure if it's gnome or the Nvidia drivers specifically, but I'm leaning > towards the drivers. > > It's not a hardware issue, as I've run rhel3 on the same machines w/o any > artifacts. > > The hardware's two-three year old Asus mobo with a single-core AMD x64 and a > rather feisty Nvidia Quadra gfx card. Don't have the exact details right > now, but it should give a hint or two. All the P4-machines, as well as the > i7-boxes, seem to work fine with dkms. I've never seen this problem at all - running AMD 64x2 7750, 4Gb memory with GEForce 7200gs card, nvidia driver nvidia-x11-drv-173.08-1.beta.el5.rf.x86_64 (from rpmforge - duh). I've used a 19" CRT, 17" 1280x1024 flat panel and, currently, 22" 1680x1050 flat panel (Emprex - cheap, but works great). I tried the L&G nvidia driver last year some time, but I decided I'd rather have the rpmforge working dkms driver than the L&G, even though it's a beta driver. When I upgraded to 5.3, that was the first time the driver was actually rebuilt for the kernel since 5.0. HTH mhr ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] DKMS and new(er) Nvidia-drivers
>-Original Message- >From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On Behalf >Of MHR >Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 11:18 PM >To: CentOS mailing list >Subject: Re: [CentOS] DKMS and new(er) Nvidia-drivers > >I've never seen this problem at all - running AMD 64x2 7750, 4Gb >memory with GEForce 7200gs card, nvidia driver >nvidia-x11-drv-173.08-1.beta.el5.rf.x86_64 (from rpmforge - duh). >I've used a 19" CRT, 17" 1280x1024 flat panel and, currently, 22" >1680x1050 flat panel (Emprex - cheap, but works great). > >I tried the L&G nvidia driver last year some time, but I decided I'd >rather have the rpmforge working dkms driver than the L&G, even though >it's a beta driver. When I upgraded to 5.3, that was the first time >the driver was actually rebuilt for the kernel since 5.0. I've mainly seen the lines on my test machines, that more or less get wiped once or twice a week anyway. Those computers have a Geforce 6200-card, and the Amd Classic/XP 2000+ cpu. With Intel I've only seen this happen on a fairly new i7 and a flashy Geforce XGL 260 IIRC, this was solved with installing the newest proprietary driver (v180.44) from Nvidia. These latter machines are only five, so a manual install is doable. It's the other older ones we have for the course lab that I'd like to use with dkms. For most part it works though, and works well. I might just let the problem machines be and use the working ones primarily. The number of students taking this course yearly varies wildly anyway. Sometimes we have computers to spare, sometimes not... I'll just leave it for now. Thanks for your feedback. -- /Sorin smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
