subject:"Re\: \[CentOS\] Emergency rescue help needed"

-Original Message-
From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On Behalf
Of
Les Mikesell
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 5:20 PM
To: CentOS mailing list
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

 I've been buying from the Smart-UPS and Back-UPS range. Those should be ok,
 shouldn't they?

That depends on how important it is to never fail.  If it is extremely
important, you might want something with redundant components like the
Symmetra line.  These are designed to keep working with some failed
components and to allow you to replace parts with the equipment on
bypass but still running.

The UPS-units serve group-server machines. If one or two should go down it's
not really a biggie, although it's not good either. Not critical in any way.
Still, one would expect the UPS-units to last more, or at least not fail due
to the electronics. Besides, I'd never be able to get the funding for the
Symmetra line UPS:es. 8-/

  All in all about a handfull of them. They're quite pricey... 90%
 of them suffered some kind of a circuit board failure. Not what you'd
usually
 expect from a UPS, rather you'd expect the battery to give up first. I
bought
 them over a few years, so it shouldn't be a bad batch or something like
that.

You might blame one or two on bad components, but this sounds like
something is wrong with the input power at your location.  I assume they
are lasting at least through the 2 year warranty period.  We have at
least a few dozen of them and haven't noticed any pattern of problems
other than aging batteries.  Are you tracking the in/out power levels on
the smart units to see what they have to deal with?

The voltage has been fairly constant here over the years since I started using
UPS and logging the voltage and stuff, 238V more or less constantly. It rarely
drops below 236V or over 240V. We mainly use the UPS:es to have controlled
shutdowns should the power fail entirely - We had some issues a few years back
while they built a new school the other side of the road when the power went
up and down for a uyear or so, and the diesel-generators didn't start up as
expected. This whole building where I work is supposed to be a wartime
hospital with power-backups up to yinyang. But it failed when we needed
them... #=;-(

It might be that the power is too high, although the standard is 240V in
Europe AFAIK. Or the UPS-units *may* have been rated for the previous lower
voltage-level at 220V, but that sounds a bit farfetched IMO. Unless the units
were a (very much) older batch that APC dumped on us...
-- 
/Sorin

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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

-Original Message-
From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On Behalf
Of
John R Pierce
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 9:49 PM
To: CentOS mailing list
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

 Oh, didn't know about Best Power. Is that something like Eatons budget-line
 brand or something?

Best Power made the excellent midsized FerrUPS units 10+ years ago.
washing machine sized 7kva kinda stuff.  built like a tank, very
serviceable.

Ah, the other way around then. Not budget I guess. Thx for the info!
-- 
/Sorin

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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

-Original Message-
From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On Behalf
Of
John R Pierce
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 9:52 PM
To: CentOS mailing list
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

Sorin Srbu wrote:
 I've been buying from the Smart-UPS and Back-UPS range. Those should be ok,
 shouldn't they?

SmartUPS, OK.   BackUPS, cheap consumer junk.

I've had to toss out dozens of various BackUPS units, mostly in the
450-600VA range...  They act like they have a dead/weak battery, so I
replace the battery with a brand new one, and the unit is dead.  They
are typically 2-3 years old at this point, so hardly worth bothering with.

The APC UPS we still have left is a smallish SmartUPS. I exchanged the battery
a couple of months ago. UPS still working fine as far as I can tell. Guess
you're right, I'll stay away from the BackUPS-range, if we ever buy APC again.
8-/

Reason for getting BackUPS at all, was that I got more VA's for the buck. The
funding I had at the time was very low. Didn't pay off in the long run, which
I pointed out to my boss... ;-)

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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-02-03 Thread Anne Wilson

On Tuesday 03 February 2009 08:51:32 Sorin Srbu wrote:
 -Original Message-
 From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On
  Behalf

 Of

 John R Pierce
 Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 9:52 PM
 To: CentOS mailing list
 Subject: Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

 Sorin Srbu wrote:
  I've been buying from the Smart-UPS and Back-UPS range. Those should be
  ok, shouldn't they?

 SmartUPS, OK.   BackUPS, cheap consumer junk.

 I've had to toss out dozens of various BackUPS units, mostly in the
 450-600VA range...  They act like they have a dead/weak battery, so I
 replace the battery with a brand new one, and the unit is dead.  They
 are typically 2-3 years old at this point, so hardly worth bothering with.

 The APC UPS we still have left is a smallish SmartUPS. I exchanged the
 battery a couple of months ago. UPS still working fine as far as I can
 tell. Guess you're right, I'll stay away from the BackUPS-range, if we ever
 buy APC again. 8-/

 Reason for getting BackUPS at all, was that I got more VA's for the buck.
 The funding I had at the time was very low. Didn't pay off in the long run,
 which I pointed out to my boss... ;-)

Actually, I have one box attached to a BackUPS that is about 15 years old, and 
has never had a replacement battery.  It holds the box through power 
variations, and can supply power for a couple of minutes - enough to allow a 
shutdown, since that box is never running unattended.  I got it when we 
upgraded the company one - it was our (the company's) first, attached to the 
file-server, so replaced at a reasonable age.

Anne

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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-02-03 Thread Les Mikesell

Sorin Srbu wrote:

 
 The voltage has been fairly constant here over the years since I started using
 UPS and logging the voltage and stuff, 238V more or less constantly. It rarely
 drops below 236V or over 240V. We mainly use the UPS:es to have controlled
 shutdowns should the power fail entirely - We had some issues a few years back
 while they built a new school the other side of the road when the power went
 up and down for a uyear or so, and the diesel-generators didn't start up as
 expected. This whole building where I work is supposed to be a wartime
 hospital with power-backups up to yinyang. But it failed when we needed
 them... #=;-(

It's a tough thing to get right.  I've been involved with several 
systems and they all failed a time or two in initial testing even after 
everyone thought they should work.  And then things break after that...
 
 It might be that the power is too high, although the standard is 240V in
 Europe AFAIK. Or the UPS-units *may* have been rated for the previous lower
 voltage-level at 220V, but that sounds a bit farfetched IMO. Unless the units
 were a (very much) older batch that APC dumped on us...

Another issue can be that you aren't backing up the air conditioner 
power, so when the grid goes down your still-running equipment 
overheats, damaging the electronics.  This is particularly likely if 
your servers are racked densely in a small space.

-- 
   Les Mikesell
lesmikes...@gmail.com

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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-02-03 Thread John R Pierce

Anne Wilson wrote:
 Actually, I have one box attached to a BackUPS that is about 15 years old, 
 and 
 has never had a replacement battery.  It holds the box through power 
 variations, and can supply power for a couple of minutes - enough to allow a 
 shutdown, since that box is never running unattended.  I got it when we 
 upgraded the company one - it was our (the company's) first, attached to the 
 file-server, so replaced at a reasonable age.
   

all the BackUPs I've ever seen have been simple relay switched units.
when the power is on,  you're getting unfiltered power (except for a MOV 
based surge protector), when the power is out, it switches to the 
modified square wave inverter output.   By comparision, the SmartUPS 
like my trusty old SU2000 at home, have boost/buck AC 'regulators' for 
brownouts and overvoltage, and relatively sinusoidal inverter output 
during total blackouts.Since I put 4 x 20AH 12V batteries in this 
beast, I can run two PCs and my networking gear and LCDs for many hour 
long blackouts easily


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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-02-03 Thread Scott Silva

on 2-3-2009 1:29 AM Anne Wilson spake the following:
 On Tuesday 03 February 2009 08:51:32 Sorin Srbu wrote:
 -Original Message-
 From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On
 Behalf
 Of

 John R Pierce
 Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 9:52 PM
 To: CentOS mailing list
 Subject: Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

 Sorin Srbu wrote:
 I've been buying from the Smart-UPS and Back-UPS range. Those should be
 ok, shouldn't they?
 SmartUPS, OK.   BackUPS, cheap consumer junk.

 I've had to toss out dozens of various BackUPS units, mostly in the
 450-600VA range...  They act like they have a dead/weak battery, so I
 replace the battery with a brand new one, and the unit is dead.  They
 are typically 2-3 years old at this point, so hardly worth bothering with.
 The APC UPS we still have left is a smallish SmartUPS. I exchanged the
 battery a couple of months ago. UPS still working fine as far as I can
 tell. Guess you're right, I'll stay away from the BackUPS-range, if we ever
 buy APC again. 8-/

 Reason for getting BackUPS at all, was that I got more VA's for the buck.
 The funding I had at the time was very low. Didn't pay off in the long run,
 which I pointed out to my boss... ;-)

 Actually, I have one box attached to a BackUPS that is about 15 years old, 
 and 
 has never had a replacement battery.  It holds the box through power 
 variations, and can supply power for a couple of minutes - enough to allow a 
 shutdown, since that box is never running unattended.  I got it when we 
 upgraded the company one - it was our (the company's) first, attached to the 
 file-server, so replaced at a reasonable age.

 Anne

I just had a Back-UPS of about 1998 vintage burst into flames about 6 months
ago. Luckily, someone was near it and grabbed a fire extinguisher. It was a
Saturday, and if this person hadn't been in on overtime, who knows what would
have happened.

We have since replaced all Consumer grade Back-ups over 2 years old, and set a
policy to only do one battery replacement and then get rid of them when the
second battery dies.

I guess you never know what can happen with electricity.

-- 
MailScanner is like deodorant...
You hope everybody uses it, and
you notice quickly if they don't

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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-02-03 Thread tech

John R Pierce wrote:
 all the BackUPs I've ever seen have been simple relay switched units.
 when the power is on,  you're getting unfiltered power (except for a MOV 
 based surge protector), when the power is out, it switches to the 
 modified square wave inverter output.

John,

There are units that change the AC to DC. The DC then charges the 
batteries and gets changed back to AC for the equipment. These units are 
very expensive though.

The relay switching types, like you mentioned, have response delays. 
They can let transients through. These transients can cause weird PC 
problems. I know, I have one of these and still a lot of transients get 
through to my equipment. My local service is very unreliable. The power 
company uses a funny set of definitions about transients so that they 
can claim their power is good.

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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-02-03 Thread John R Pierce

tech wrote:
 John R Pierce wrote:
   
 all the BackUPs I've ever seen have been simple relay switched units.
 when the power is on,  you're getting unfiltered power (except for a MOV 
 based surge protector), when the power is out, it switches to the 
 modified square wave inverter output.
 

 John,

 There are units that change the AC to DC. The DC then charges the 
 batteries and gets changed back to AC for the equipment. These units are 
 very expensive though.
   

There are online UPS, as you describe.   I don't believe any of them 
have the APC BackUPS brand name on them.   I don't even think APC 
SmartUPS are online, however as I said, the SmartUPS do have power 
conditioners.


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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

-Original Message-
From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On Behalf
Of
Les Mikesell
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 6:42 PM
To: CentOS mailing list
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

 hospital with power-backups up to yinyang. But it failed when we needed
 them... #=;-(

It's a tough thing to get right.  I've been involved with several
systems and they all failed a time or two in initial testing even after
everyone thought they should work.  And then things break after that...

The building was built in the 50s, so I guess it's not a testing thing, but
rather the second thing you mention. Breakage due to not-too-frequent-use.

Another issue can be that you aren't backing up the air conditioner
power, so when the grid goes down your still-running equipment
overheats, damaging the electronics.  This is particularly likely if
your servers are racked densely in a small space.

Yeah, it got awfully hot in the basement server room... We don't don’t have
any racks though, almost all servers are tower models not too densely packed.
About 3-4 per shelf in two rows and two-three shelves in total. The AC is
rather over-dimensioned, but when the power is out, it doesn't really
matter... 8-/

The good part is that we haven't had any significant power-outs for over two
years. Temporary dips and the occasional spike and flicker yes, but no total
unplanned black-out.
-- 
/Sorin

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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

-Original Message-
From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On Behalf Of
Scott Silva
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 10:45 PM
To: centos@centos.org
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

I just had a Back-UPS of about 1998 vintage burst into flames about 6 months
ago. Luckily, someone was near it and grabbed a fire extinguisher. It was a
Saturday, and if this person hadn't been in on overtime, who knows what would
have happened.

Geez... I have a UPS for my admin-workstation just under the desk on the floor 
in front of me. Suddenly I feel a bit anxious about that...
-- 
/Sorin

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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-02-02 Thread Les Mikesell

Sorin Srbu wrote:

 Marking words: used to be best? Which is the best now then? APC is
 apparantely not an option as they suck bigtime IMO, so what's? Powerware and
 APC are the two biggest and most wellknown UPS-manufacturers I know of.
 APC does make a full line of units.  Perhaps you aren't buying the right
 ones if they aren't serving you well.
 
 I've been buying from the Smart-UPS and Back-UPS range. Those should be ok, 
 shouldn't they?

That depends on how important it is to never fail.  If it is extremely 
important, you might want something with redundant components like the 
Symmetra line.  These are designed to keep working with some failed 
components and to allow you to replace parts with the equipment on 
bypass but still running.

  All in all about a handfull of them. They're quite pricey... 90%
 of them suffered some kind of a circuit board failure. Not what you'd usually 
 expect from a UPS, rather you'd expect the battery to give up first. I bought 
 them over a few years, so it shouldn't be a bad batch or something like that.

You might blame one or two on bad components, but this sounds like 
something is wrong with the input power at your location.  I assume they 
are lasting at least through the 2 year warranty period.  We have at 
least a few dozen of them and haven't noticed any pattern of problems 
other than aging batteries.  Are you tracking the in/out power levels on 
the smart units to see what they have to deal with?

-- 
   Les Mikesell
lesmikes...@gmail.com

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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-02-02 Thread Sorin Srbu

-Original Message-
From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On Behalf Of
Les Mikesell
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 2:35 PM
To: CentOS mailing list
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

 Marking words: used to be best? Which is the best now then? APC is
 apparantely not an option as they suck bigtime IMO, so what's? Powerware and
 APC are the two biggest and most wellknown UPS-manufacturers I know of.

APC does make a full line of units.  Perhaps you aren't buying the right
ones if they aren't serving you well.

I've been buying from the Smart-UPS and Back-UPS range. Those should be ok, 
shouldn't they? All in all about a handfull of them. They're quite pricey... 
90% 
of them suffered some kind of a circuit board failure. Not what you'd usually 
expect from a UPS, rather you'd expect the battery to give up first. I bought 
them over a few years, so it shouldn't be a bad batch or something like that.

To APC's honour, I must say their support helped me quite a bit to get this 
working by sending me new cables to test with and at one occasion two brand new 
batteries free of charge. Unfortunately that didn't help...

I wasn't too happy with the experience anyway, so I tried Eatons Powerware's 
5xxx-series, which has worked w/o hitches ever since.

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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-02-02 Thread Les Mikesell

Sorin Srbu wrote:

 
 Marking words: used to be best? Which is the best now then? APC is
 apparantely not an option as they suck bigtime IMO, so what's? Powerware and
 APC are the two biggest and most wellknown UPS-manufacturers I know of.

APC does make a full line of units.  Perhaps you aren't buying the right 
ones if they aren't serving you well.

-- 
   Les Mikesell
lesmikes...@gmail.com

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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-02-02 Thread John R Pierce

Sorin Srbu wrote:
 Oh, didn't know about Best Power. Is that something like Eatons budget-line
 brand or something?
   

Best Power made the excellent midsized FerrUPS units 10+ years ago.  
washing machine sized 7kva kinda stuff.  built like a tank, very 
serviceable.

Eaton also acquired Sola, and AFAIK, PowerWare was built from a merge of 
Best Power and Sola.


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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-02-02 Thread Toby Bluhm

Sorin Srbu wrote:
 -Original Message-
 From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On Behalf
 Of
 John R Pierce
 Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 6:49 PM
 To: CentOS mailing list
 Subject: Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

 Eaton Powerware used to be Best, they made the very good FerrUps series.

 Marking words: used to be best? Which is the best now then? 

I think he meant the brand name Best Power. Eaton owns both the Best 
Power and Powerware brands.

-- 
tkb
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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-02-02 Thread Sorin Srbu

-Original Message-
From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On Behalf
Of
John R Pierce
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 6:49 PM
To: CentOS mailing list
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

Eaton Powerware used to be Best, they made the very good FerrUps series.

Marking words: used to be best? Which is the best now then? APC is
apparantely not an option as they suck bigtime IMO, so what's? Powerware and
APC are the two biggest and most wellknown UPS-manufacturers I know of.

Re: batteries, most all UPS's I've seen use various standard VRLA
batteries (Valve Regulated Lead Acid, often mistakenly called Sealed
Lead Acid, or Gel Cells), readily obtainable from vendors like
www.digikey.com, assembled into packs...   with a few exceptions, you
can use the generic equivalent battery, much much cheaper.   I
resurrected a dead SmartUPS 2000 that was going to be tossed at work by
replacing the batteries with 4 x 12V20AH Panasonic VRLA, which happens
to be the same size my motorcycle uses.

Now, battery prices have gone up considerably these last 2-3 years, lead
prices are very high, as are transportation costs.

A motorcycle battery... Good one, thx for the hint!

-- 
/Sorin

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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-02-02 Thread Dick Roth

Les Mikesell wrote:
 Sorin Srbu wrote:
 Marking words: used to be best? Which is the best now then? APC is
 apparantely not an option as they suck bigtime IMO, so what's? Powerware 
 and
 APC are the two biggest and most wellknown UPS-manufacturers I know of.
 APC does make a full line of units.  Perhaps you aren't buying the right
 ones if they aren't serving you well.
 I've been buying from the Smart-UPS and Back-UPS range. Those should be ok, 
 shouldn't they?
 
 That depends on how important it is to never fail.  If it is extremely 
 important, you might want something with redundant components like the 
 Symmetra line.  These are designed to keep working with some failed 
 components and to allow you to replace parts with the equipment on 
 bypass but still running.
 
   All in all about a handfull of them. They're quite pricey... 90%
 of them suffered some kind of a circuit board failure. Not what you'd 
 usually 
 expect from a UPS, rather you'd expect the battery to give up first. I 
 bought 
 them over a few years, so it shouldn't be a bad batch or something like that.
 
 You might blame one or two on bad components, but this sounds like 
 something is wrong with the input power at your location.  I assume they 
 are lasting at least through the 2 year warranty period.  We have at 
 least a few dozen of them and haven't noticed any pattern of problems 
 other than aging batteries.  Are you tracking the in/out power levels on 
 the smart units to see what they have to deal with?
 

I will vouch for the reliability of power continuity with the Symmetra 
line.  They can be configured from 2kva up to about 16kva and have 
almost complete redundancy.  I have 35 Symmetra RM and LX single phase 
units protecting network closets and labs.  I have never lost a load in 
the five or so years I've been running them.

Components do fail, especially the batteries (we always hope for five 
years, but 3-4 years life is not uncommon...the nature of the VRLA 
beast).  However, my experience with APC is that I've never worked with 
a better tech support operation.

This is my own opinion based on my experience.  I have no financial 
interest other than to protect my networks from the cost of outages.

BTW these APCs replaced banks of Best Power FERRUPSes.  That technology 
is no longer relevant in an environment that demands hot-swapability 
with no down time.

Dick


-- 
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safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

  --Benjamin Franklin 1755
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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-02-02 Thread John R Pierce


I've always felt UPS's should be in pairs, one for each side of each 
server's redundant PSUs.   that way you can take one UPS offline 
entirely for service, whatever, and the systems can continue to be 
protected by the other UPS via their 2nd PSU. 


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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-01-31 Thread Anne Wilson

On Friday 30 January 2009 22:20:17 Glenn wrote:
 At 04:57 PM 1/30/2009, you wrote:
 On Friday 30 January 2009 20:51:53 Glenn wrote:
   Are you located in U.S., U.K. or Europe? I couldn't tell?
 
 UK
 
 Anne

 Reason I asked is because APC has refurbished UPS for half price with
 free shipping a lot of the times in the US. I've had very good luck
 with the refurbished units. Sorry.

A while back I got a newsletter from them, offering trade-ins.  I filed it for 
later use - and forgot where I filed it :-(  Information overload :-)

Anne


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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-01-31 Thread John

 -Original Message-
 From: centos-boun...@centos.org 
 [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On Behalf Of Toby Bluhm
 Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 8:05 AM
 To: CentOS mailing list
 Subject: Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

 John wrote:
 .
 .
 .
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague.

  I just fixed a test box that kept getting something like 
  received INT 
  11 - no one cared and then locks up. Replaced two caps - I 
  yanked them 
  from some old, defunct power supplies.

  -
  How did you know they were bad? Could you explain to her 
 what to look for
  and how to use a Multimeter?

 You look at them - no meter required. The tops of the electrolytic 
 capacitors should be flat and clean looking - not bulged, puffed or 
 discolored. It's all described very well in the wiki page.

 Replacing the capacitors does require soldering equipment and 
 soldering 
 skills. Or just replace the whole MB or power supply - 
 whichever is the 
 problem.
---

Thank You!

JohnStanley

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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-01-31 Thread Anne Wilson

On Saturday 31 January 2009 16:29:32 John wrote:
  -Original Message-
  From: centos-boun...@centos.org
  [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On Behalf Of Toby Bluhm
  Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 8:05 AM
  To: CentOS mailing list
  Subject: Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

  John wrote:
  .
  .
  .

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague.

   I just fixed a test box that kept getting something like
   received INT
   11 - no one cared and then locks up. Replaced two caps - I
   yanked them
   from some old, defunct power supplies.

   -
   How did you know they were bad? Could you explain to her

  what to look for

   and how to use a Multimeter?

  You look at them - no meter required. The tops of the electrolytic
  capacitors should be flat and clean looking - not bulged, puffed or
  discolored. It's all described very well in the wiki page.

  Replacing the capacitors does require soldering equipment and
  soldering
  skills. Or just replace the whole MB or power supply -
  whichever is the
  problem.

I've lost track of who told me to check capacitors, so apologies to the person 
concerned.  I did look - and everything looks fine.

Anne

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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-01-31 Thread John

 -Original Message-
 From: centos-boun...@centos.org 
 [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On Behalf Of Anne Wilson
 Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 12:01 PM
 To: CentOS mailing list
 Subject: Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

 On Saturday 31 January 2009 16:29:32 John wrote:
   -Original Message-
   From: centos-boun...@centos.org
   [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On Behalf Of Toby Bluhm
   Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 8:05 AM
   To: CentOS mailing list
   Subject: Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

   John wrote:
   .
   .
   .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague.

I just fixed a test box that kept getting something like
received INT
11 - no one cared and then locks up. Replaced two caps - I
yanked them
from some old, defunct power supplies.

-
How did you know they were bad? Could you explain to her

   what to look for

and how to use a Multimeter?

   You look at them - no meter required. The tops of the electrolytic
   capacitors should be flat and clean looking - not bulged, 
 puffed or
   discolored. It's all described very well in the wiki page.

   Replacing the capacitors does require soldering equipment and
   soldering
   skills. Or just replace the whole MB or power supply -
   whichever is the
   problem.

 I've lost track of who told me to check capacitors, so 
 apologies to the person 
 concerned.  I did look - and everything looks fine.

 Anne

Toby asked you to... 

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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

On Thursday 29 January 2009 23:46:12 Lanny Marcus wrote:
 On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Chris Boyd cb...@gizmopartners.com wrote:
  On Jan 29, 2009, at 2:44 PM, Anne Wilson wrote:
  You said that the UPS is fully charged. I wonder if you need a UPS
  with larger capacity and if your UPS is working properly.
 
  I don't think there's any problem with the UPS (APC).
 
  I've seen APC rack mount systems shut down the power outlets when
  doing their self-test and the batteries were dodgy.

 After reading that her village was on generator power, etc., I would
 be suspicious of the health of that UPS. If the box has problems, it
 may be because the UPS was unable to cope with the very heavy
 prolonged workload. If the UPS does not have Automatic Voltage
 Regulation, without using the battery, it would also have been working
 harder?

Technicalities of power supply are not in any way my expertise.  Are you 
saying that it would be wise to change the battery?

Anne


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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

-Original Message-
From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On Behalf Of
Scott Silva
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 5:37 PM
To: centos@centos.org
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

If you had many power failures, the filesystem might just be severely trashed.
Journals and files out of sync, etc... If a good fsck didn't fix it, you might
just be in for a wipe-reinstall, or many hours of finding and fixing corrupted
files.. [...]

A UPS hasn't previously been mentioned AFAICT, or possibly I missed it... You 
do 
have one connected, don't you?

The controlled shutdown a UPS usually offers at power/brownouts, is a really 
good solution IMHO.

/Sorin

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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

-Original Message-
From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On Behalf Of
Scott Silva
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 6:18 PM
To: centos@centos.org
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

Are the failures power related, or is the system just shutting down on its own?

I've had this happen on more than one occasion, that is to say when the 
motherboard didn't totally bail at the occasion. Anne, if you have a spare PSU, 
try your system with that one and see if the system is more stable.

Brand-name PSU's is *not* a guarantee it will last and/or be resilient. I have 
experience with those as well... 8-/

If the latter, I would suspect either a power supply or a processor fan. If
the former, maybe you need to invest in an inexpensive UPS.

I second that. A UPS, as in prevention, is THE starting point for stability.

At home I have a fairly big one, a Powerware 5115 rated at 1400VA. My two 
Windows DC's, another Windows intranet web portal, firewall-appliance, linux 
web server and switch, as well as one monitor are connected to it. The three 
workstations are not though, all docs and files are on the DC's. 8-}

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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

-Original Message-
From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On Behalf
Of
Anne Wilson
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 6:28 PM
To: CentOS mailing list
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

I do have a UPS, and it's fully charged.  The system is just
spontaneously rebooting or shutting down.

Try another PSU.
-- 
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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

-Original Message-
From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On Behalf
Of
Toby Bluhm
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 6:42 PM
To: CentOS mailing list
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague.

Anne, is your motherboard an oldish MSI (Microstar)? 
-- 
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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

-Original Message-
From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On Behalf
Of
Anne Wilson
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 9:15 AM
To: CentOS mailing list
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

Technicalities of power supply are not in any way my expertise.  Are you
saying that it would be wise to change the battery?

Three, four years is a normal lifespan for a UPS-battery IIRC. Less if the
batteries are used often, ie you have plenty of brown- and/or powerouts.

Most UPS-brands have a battery-exchange program. 

However, in some cases it's cheaper to just get a whole new UPS... 8-/

HTH.
-- 
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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

On Friday 30 January 2009 09:49:46 Sorin Srbu wrote:
 -Original Message-
 From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On
  Behalf

 Of

 Anne Wilson
 Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 9:15 AM
 To: CentOS mailing list
 Subject: Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

 Technicalities of power supply are not in any way my expertise.  Are you
 saying that it would be wise to change the battery?

 Three, four years is a normal lifespan for a UPS-battery IIRC. Less if the
 batteries are used often, ie you have plenty of brown- and/or powerouts.

 Most UPS-brands have a battery-exchange program.

 However, in some cases it's cheaper to just get a whole new UPS... 8-/

I know I was shocked at the price I had to pay last time I replaced the APC 
battery.  My favourite vendor sells a lot of Liebert PowerSure UPSs, so I 
presume they have had no problems with them, or they'd have given up by now.  
There is a large range, and the prices are good, but the only thing I can say 
is that I haven't heard anyone complain.  I'd prefer to hear a positive report 
before buying.

Anne

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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

On Friday 30 January 2009 09:42:28 Sorin Srbu wrote:
 -Original Message-
 From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On
  Behalf

 Of

 Toby Bluhm
 Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 6:42 PM
 To: CentOS mailing list
 Subject: Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague.

 Anne, is your motherboard an oldish MSI (Microstar)?

No.  It's MSI, but only 12 months old - K9N SLi Platinum

Anne

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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

On Friday 30 January 2009 09:32:27 Sorin Srbu wrote:
 -Original Message-
 From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On
  Behalf Of Scott Silva
 Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 5:37 PM
 To: centos@centos.org
 Subject: Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

 If you had many power failures, the filesystem might just be severely
  trashed. Journals and files out of sync, etc... If a good fsck didn't fix
  it, you might just be in for a wipe-reinstall, or many hours of finding
  and fixing corrupted files.. [...]

 A UPS hasn't previously been mentioned AFAICT, or possibly I missed it...
 You do have one connected, don't you?

 The controlled shutdown a UPS usually offers at power/brownouts, is a
 really good solution IMHO.

The APC unit has had more to handle lately than you should reasonably expect.  
It wasn't getting chance to recharge before the next incident.  I'm not 
blaming it.

Anne

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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-01-30 Thread Michael Simpson

On 1/30/09, Anne Wilson cannewil...@googlemail.com wrote:
 On Friday 30 January 2009 09:32:27 Sorin Srbu wrote:
  -Original Message-
  From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On
   Behalf Of Scott Silva
  Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 5:37 PM
  To: centos@centos.org
  Subject: Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

  If you had many power failures, the filesystem might just be severely
   trashed. Journals and files out of sync, etc... If a good fsck didn't fix
   it, you might just be in for a wipe-reinstall, or many hours of finding
   and fixing corrupted files.. [...]

  A UPS hasn't previously been mentioned AFAICT, or possibly I missed it...
  You do have one connected, don't you?

  The controlled shutdown a UPS usually offers at power/brownouts, is a
  really good solution IMHO.

 The APC unit has had more to handle lately than you should reasonably expect.
 It wasn't getting chance to recharge before the next incident.  I'm not
 blaming it.

 Anne

We had a back-hoe related episode about 4 mnths ago which led to much
flakiness for weeks until a power company from scotland got round to
sorting it out. Lots of time spent at 110VAC (from 240V) and many
momentary flickerings.

Eventually the older (nearing their natural end of life) apc batteries
finally failed, the newer apc were unaffected. All boxen not connected
to ups died because of psu failures (brandname - full range input
voltages) One box had a mobo failure as well but this we suspect was
secondary to the psu letting out the magic smoke.

The sumo boxen sailed through it all with no problems whatsoever not
even stuttering

http://www.sumotech.com/english/home/

the old laptops that we use for non-essential network services were ok
as were the big servers/switches and routers behind the new UPSs.

We have now fitted an isolating switch and a generator as this is a
regular occurrence (17miles from Glasgow but rotten infrastructure)

now we just need to work out how to get BT to replace the rotten
copper in the POTS system -used to get 1.4Mbs, now getting a flaky
300Kbs down (yet 800 up!) and BT's response was to decrease the fault
report level.

mike
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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-01-30 Thread William L. Maltby


On Fri, 2009-01-30 at 10:19 +, Anne Wilson wrote:
 On Friday 30 January 2009 09:49:46 Sorin Srbu wrote:
  -Original Message-
  From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On
   Behalf
 
  Of
 
  Anne Wilson
  Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 9:15 AM
  To: CentOS mailing list
  Subject: Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed
  
  Technicalities of power supply are not in any way my expertise.  Are you
  saying that it would be wise to change the battery?
 
  Three, four years is a normal lifespan for a UPS-battery IIRC. Less if the
  batteries are used often, ie you have plenty of brown- and/or powerouts.
 
  Most UPS-brands have a battery-exchange program.
 
  However, in some cases it's cheaper to just get a whole new UPS... 8-/
 
 I know I was shocked at the price I had to pay last time I replaced the APC 
 battery.  My favourite vendor sells a lot of Liebert PowerSure UPSs, so I 
 presume they have had no problems with them, or they'd have given up by now.  
 There is a large range, and the prices are good, but the only thing I can say 
 is that I haven't heard anyone complain.  I'd prefer to hear a positive 
 report 
 before buying.

Many years ago, I bought a replacement battery locally for my BBS.
SHOCKING! Next time, I got on the net. Much better price. Not shocking.

I suggest you go that route if you need a battery.

 
 Anne
 snip sig stuff

-- 
Bill

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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

-Original Message-
From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On Behalf
Of
Anne Wilson
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 11:20 AM
To: CentOS mailing list
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

 However, in some cases it's cheaper to just get a whole new UPS... 8-/

I know I was shocked at the price I had to pay last time I replaced the APC
battery.  My favourite vendor sells a lot of Liebert PowerSure UPSs, so I
presume they have had no problems with them, or they'd have given up by now.
There is a large range, and the prices are good, but the only thing I can say
is that I haven't heard anyone complain.  I'd prefer to hear a positive
report
before buying.

Did you check Eaton Powerware? They are very competitively priced IMO. We
bought APC's before as well, but I felt the controller software was not as
smooth as it could've been and the battery replacement-programs very not that
good as Powerware's variants.

With UPS's I prefer a brand-name. If nothing else for the reason that they
stock batteries even to older models.
-- 
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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

-Original Message-
From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On Behalf
Of
Anne Wilson
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 11:21 AM
To: CentOS mailing list
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

 Anne, is your motherboard an oldish MSI (Microstar)?

No.  It's MSI, but only 12 months old - K9N SLi Platinum

Heh! All, and I really mean all!, of our MSI-mobos have suffered
bloated/leaking caps sooner or later. Even the newer ones!
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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

-Original Message-
From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On Behalf
Of
Michael Simpson
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 11:45 AM
To: CentOS mailing list
Subject: Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

[...snipped...] BT's response was to decrease the fault report level.

LOL! Good one!
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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

On Friday 30 January 2009 11:04:07 Sorin Srbu wrote:
 -Original Message-
 From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On
  Behalf

 Of

 Anne Wilson
 Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 11:21 AM
 To: CentOS mailing list
 Subject: Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

  Anne, is your motherboard an oldish MSI (Microstar)?

 No.  It's MSI, but only 12 months old - K9N SLi Platinum

 Heh! All, and I really mean all!, of our MSI-mobos have suffered
 bloated/leaking caps sooner or later. Even the newer ones!

Thanks for the warning.  I'll check when doing the PSU this afternoon

Anne

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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

On Friday 30 January 2009 11:02:50 Sorin Srbu wrote:
 -Original Message-
 From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On
  Behalf

 Of

 Anne Wilson
 Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 11:20 AM
 To: CentOS mailing list
 Subject: Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

  However, in some cases it's cheaper to just get a whole new UPS... 8-/

 I know I was shocked at the price I had to pay last time I replaced the
  APC battery.  My favourite vendor sells a lot of Liebert PowerSure UPSs,
  so I presume they have had no problems with them, or they'd have given up
  by now. There is a large range, and the prices are good, but the only
  thing I can say is that I haven't heard anyone complain.  I'd prefer to
  hear a positive

 report

 before buying.

 Did you check Eaton Powerware? They are very competitively priced IMO. We
 bought APC's before as well, but I felt the controller software was not as
 smooth as it could've been and the battery replacement-programs very not
 that good as Powerware's variants.

 With UPS's I prefer a brand-name. If nothing else for the reason that they
 stock batteries even to older models.

Never heard of them, but I'll take this as a recommendation, thanks.

Anne

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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-01-30 Thread Toby Bluhm

John wrote:
.
.
.
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague.

 I just fixed a test box that kept getting something like 
 received INT 
 11 - no one cared and then locks up. Replaced two caps - I 
 yanked them 
 from some old, defunct power supplies.
 
 -
 How did you know they were bad? Could you explain to her what to look for
 and how to use a Multimeter?
 


You look at them - no meter required. The tops of the electrolytic 
capacitors should be flat and clean looking - not bulged, puffed or 
discolored. It's all described very well in the wiki page.

Replacing the capacitors does require soldering equipment and soldering 
skills. Or just replace the whole MB or power supply - whichever is the 
problem.


-- 
tkb
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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-01-30 Thread jkinz

On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 10:45:11AM +, Michael Simpson wrote:
 
 now we just need to work out how to get BT to replace the rotten
 copper in the POTS system -used to get 1.4Mbs, now getting a flaky
 300Kbs down (yet 800 up!) and BT's response was to decrease the fault
 report level.

Utilities here in Northeast USA are famous for not wanting to upgrade 
infrastructure until they get a law passed/tariff changed that allows 
them to assess the customers directly for the costs. 

One of the best upgrades Philadelphia ever got was when a fire inside a
tunnel took out almost all of the wire that connected that city to the
ROW.

You may have to contact a local, nearly destitute contractor for some
midnight backhoe service ...(kidding, not a good idea.)

There is an excellent book titled The Power struggle which goes
over the (colorful) history of how power utilities manipulate and
control their customers to increase their profits while
simultaneously making sure those same profits don't show up in
the accounting.. 

Its a very unequal struggle. the power companies hire full time
legal professionals to manipulate the utilities commissions and
the other side is populated by a people who have keep their day 
job and have little money to spare on the same effort. (compared
to the millions the power companies will spend).

The same dynamics apply to the telecom and cable utilities.

But not to the highway system.  That area has an entirely
different set of issues.. :-) 

JK
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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-01-30 Thread Scott Silva

on 1-30-2009 12:15 AM Anne Wilson spake the following:
 On Thursday 29 January 2009 23:46:12 Lanny Marcus wrote:
 On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Chris Boyd 
 cboyd-1sEnLahcNUY4yJ9dIELTZQC/g2k4z...@public.gmane.org wrote:
 On Jan 29, 2009, at 2:44 PM, Anne Wilson wrote:
 You said that the UPS is fully charged. I wonder if you need a UPS
 with larger capacity and if your UPS is working properly.
 I don't think there's any problem with the UPS (APC).
 I've seen APC rack mount systems shut down the power outlets when
 doing their self-test and the batteries were dodgy.
 After reading that her village was on generator power, etc., I would
 be suspicious of the health of that UPS. If the box has problems, it
 may be because the UPS was unable to cope with the very heavy
 prolonged workload. If the UPS does not have Automatic Voltage
 Regulation, without using the battery, it would also have been working
 harder?

 Technicalities of power supply are not in any way my expertise.  Are you 
 saying that it would be wise to change the battery?
 
Batteries are usually good for 3 to 4 years, but I have about a dozen APC
UPS's that didn't make 2 years. Either the batteries were a defective lot, or
the UPS's themselves overcharged them as they are all swollen and some have
started seeping.
All the bad UPS's are APC LS 700's  purchased in mid 2007 per my records. I
have considered contacting APC, but I doubt that they will care much.

-- 
MailScanner is like deodorant...
You hope everybody uses it, and
you notice quickly if they don't



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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

On Friday 30 January 2009 17:17:00 Chris Boyd wrote:
 On Jan 30, 2009, at 4:19 AM, Anne Wilson wrote:
  I know I was shocked at the price I had to pay last time I replaced
  the APC
  battery.  My favourite vendor sells a lot of Liebert PowerSure UPSs,
  so I
  presume they have had no problems with them, or they'd have given up
  by now.
  There is a large range, and the prices are good, but the only thing
  I can say
  is that I haven't heard anyone complain.  I'd prefer to hear a
  positive report
  before buying.

 My company is a Leibert UPS VAR.  We became one after we started
 having problems with the APC systems we were using (I mentioned the
 shutdowns earlier on the list) and started buying Leibert for our own
 use.  Leibert's people contacted us so we could get better pricing.
 I'll never use another APC again.

That's comforting.  If I can't get an APC battery at a reasonable price I'll 
take a look at that.  I'm using a Smart-UPS 700, and replacing it would be 
expensive for a home system.  My son-in-law has a Leibert on his system 
(which uses a lot more power than mine) and is happy with it, but hasn't had 
it so long, so I'm glad to get another opinion.

 In the US we have a specialty battery retailer called Batteries Plus
 that's a good source for replacement batteries.  If you are not too
 far from a good sized city you should be able to find a similar
 business where you are.  Voltage and current ratings and the form
 factors for batteries are worldwide industry standards, so you should
 be able to find replacements for far less money than getting the
 certified batteries from APC.

OK, thanks.  I'll look around.  I guess if they are selling 'standard' 
batteries they will have some way of making sure that what I buy is 
compatible.  Another adventure :-)

Anne



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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

On Thursday 29 January 2009 17:32:00 Les Mikesell wrote:
 Anne Wilson wrote:
  Are the failures power related, or is the system just shutting down on
  its own?
 
  If the latter, I would suspect either a power supply or a processor fan.
  If the former, maybe you need to invest in an inexpensive UPS.
 
  I do have a UPS, and it's fully charged.  The system is just
  spontaneously rebooting or shutting down.

 My first guesses would be the system power supply or the CPU fan.

I've changed the PSU for a better one, but it may have been not the PSU at 
all.  While fitting the new one my hand brushed against a sata cable, which 
came unplugged.  The connector had cracked.  I've replaced that too.

Anne


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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-01-30 Thread John R Pierce

Anne Wilson wrote:
 On Friday 30 January 2009 11:02:50 Sorin Srbu wrote:
   
 Did you check Eaton Powerware? They are very competitively priced IMO. We
 bought APC's before as well, but I felt the controller software was not as
 smooth as it could've been and the battery replacement-programs very not
 that good as Powerware's variants.

 With UPS's I prefer a brand-name. If nothing else for the reason that they
 stock batteries even to older models.
 

 Never heard of them, but I'll take this as a recommendation, thanks.
   



Eaton Powerware used to be Best, they made the very good FerrUps series.

Re: batteries, most all UPS's I've seen use various standard VRLA 
batteries (Valve Regulated Lead Acid, often mistakenly called Sealed 
Lead Acid, or Gel Cells), readily obtainable from vendors like 
www.digikey.com, assembled into packs...   with a few exceptions, you 
can use the generic equivalent battery, much much cheaper.   I  
resurrected a dead SmartUPS 2000 that was going to be tossed at work by 
replacing the batteries with 4 x 12V20AH Panasonic VRLA, which happens 
to be the same size my motorcycle uses.

Now, battery prices have gone up considerably these last 2-3 years, lead 
prices are very high, as are transportation costs.
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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-01-30 Thread Scott Silva

on 1-30-2009 5:20 AM jk...@kinz.org spake the following:
 On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 10:45:11AM +, Michael Simpson wrote:
 now we just need to work out how to get BT to replace the rotten
 copper in the POTS system -used to get 1.4Mbs, now getting a flaky
 300Kbs down (yet 800 up!) and BT's response was to decrease the fault
 report level.
 
 Utilities here in Northeast USA are famous for not wanting to upgrade 
 infrastructure until they get a law passed/tariff changed that allows 
 them to assess the customers directly for the costs. 
 
 One of the best upgrades Philadelphia ever got was when a fire inside a
 tunnel took out almost all of the wire that connected that city to the
 ROW.
 
 You may have to contact a local, nearly destitute contractor for some
 midnight backhoe service ...(kidding, not a good idea.)
 
 There is an excellent book titled The Power struggle which goes
 over the (colorful) history of how power utilities manipulate and
 control their customers to increase their profits while
 simultaneously making sure those same profits don't show up in
 the accounting.. 
 
 Its a very unequal struggle. the power companies hire full time
 legal professionals to manipulate the utilities commissions and
 the other side is populated by a people who have keep their day 
 job and have little money to spare on the same effort. (compared
 to the millions the power companies will spend).
 
 The same dynamics apply to the telecom and cable utilities.
 
 But not to the highway system.  That area has an entirely
 different set of issues.. :-) 
 
 JK
I work for a privately held water utility, and I'm sure that we do the same
thing. Since the public owns the infrastructure, they get to pay for it.


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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-01-30 Thread Chris Boyd


On Jan 30, 2009, at 11:28 AM, Anne Wilson wrote:

 OK, thanks.  I'll look around.  I guess if they are selling 'standard'
 batteries they will have some way of making sure that what I buy is
 compatible.  Another adventure :-)

There's info on the battery that will identify it.

Voltage (typically 12V for a small UPS)
Ah or mAh (Amp-hours or milliamp-hours, typically 7.5 for a small UPS)
A manufacturer model number (they should be able to cross-reference to  
get the equivalent)

--Chris
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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-01-30 Thread John R Pierce

Chris Boyd wrote:
On Jan 30, 2009, at 11:28 AM, Anne Wilson wrote:

OK, thanks. I'll look around. I guess if they are selling 'standard'
batteries they will have some way of making sure that what I buy is
compatible. Another adventure :-)

There's info on the battery that will identify it.

Voltage (typically 12V for a small UPS)
Ah or mAh (Amp-hours or milliamp-hours, typically 7.5 for a small UPS)
A manufacturer model number (they should be able to cross-reference to
get the equivalent)

many of the smaller UPS's use a pair of 6V 12AH batteries wired in
series... if these are mounted side-by-side, you can use a single 12V 12AH.

many UPS batteries use a somewhat different rating than AH, based on
minutes at some load factor.

I get my batteries from
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Cat=393246

anyways... measure the size of the battery, go here, select the voltage
on the far right, and pick the size, and .250 spades (or whatever) and
hit search. BB are somewhat cheaper, Panasonic are considered premium
grade. a really large UPS will use M5 or M6 bolt lugs.

prices -have- gone up a few years ago, Panasonic 12V 20AH were $44.
now they are $73. ouch.

if this is too complex, or if your UPS uses a funky battery assembly
you're not up for hacking, try these guys...
http://www.refurbups.com/Catalog/By-APC-RBC-Battery-Number;jsessionid=0a0105501f434fd727d50b9643569c308deb23faa548.e3eSc34OaxmTe34Pa38Ta38Qb350

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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

On Friday 30 January 2009 19:33:24 John R Pierce wrote:
 Chris Boyd wrote:
  On Jan 30, 2009, at 11:28 AM, Anne Wilson wrote:
  OK, thanks.  I'll look around.  I guess if they are selling 'standard'
  batteries they will have some way of making sure that what I buy is
  compatible.  Another adventure :-)
 
  There's info on the battery that will identify it.
 
  Voltage (typically 12V for a small UPS)
  Ah or mAh (Amp-hours or milliamp-hours, typically 7.5 for a small UPS)
  A manufacturer model number (they should be able to cross-reference to
  get the equivalent)

 many of the smaller UPS's use a pair of 6V 12AH batteries wired in
 series... if these are mounted side-by-side, you can use a single 12V 12AH.

 many UPS batteries use a somewhat different rating than AH, based on
 minutes at some load factor.

 I get my batteries from
 http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Cat=393246

 anyways... measure the size of the battery, go here, select the voltage
 on the far right, and pick the size, and  .250 spades (or whatever) and
 hit search.  BB are somewhat cheaper, Panasonic are considered premium
 grade.  a really large UPS will use M5 or M6 bolt lugs.


 prices -have- gone up a few years ago, Panasonic 12V 20AH were $44.
 now they are $73.  ouch.

 if this is too complex, or if your UPS uses a funky battery assembly
 you're not up for hacking, try these guys...
 http://www.refurbups.com/Catalog/By-APC-RBC-Battery-Number;jsessionid=0a010
5501f434fd727d50b9643569c308deb23faa548.e3eSc34OaxmTe34Pa38Ta38Qb350

OK.  Thanks, both of you.  Info bookmarked for investigation :-)

Anne


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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-01-30 Thread Glenn

At 03:28 PM 1/30/2009, you wrote:
On Friday 30 January 2009 19:33:24 John R Pierce wrote:
  Chris Boyd wrote:
   On Jan 30, 2009, at 11:28 AM, Anne Wilson wrote:
   OK, thanks.  I'll look around.  I guess if they are selling 'standard'
   batteries they will have some way of making sure that what I buy is
   compatible.  Another adventure :-)
  
   There's info on the battery that will identify it.
  
   Voltage (typically 12V for a small UPS)
   Ah or mAh (Amp-hours or milliamp-hours, typically 7.5 for a small UPS)
   A manufacturer model number (they should be able to cross-reference to
   get the equivalent)
 
  many of the smaller UPS's use a pair of 6V 12AH batteries wired in
  series... if these are mounted side-by-side, you can use a single 12V 12AH.
 
  many UPS batteries use a somewhat different rating than AH, based on
  minutes at some load factor.
 
  I get my batteries from
  http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Cat=393246
 
  anyways... measure the size of the battery, go here, select the voltage
  on the far right, and pick the size, and  .250 spades (or whatever) and
  hit search.  BB are somewhat cheaper, Panasonic are considered premium
  grade.  a really large UPS will use M5 or M6 bolt lugs.
 
 
  prices -have- gone up a few years ago, Panasonic 12V 20AH were $44.
  now they are $73.  ouch.
 
  if this is too complex, or if your UPS uses a funky battery assembly
  you're not up for hacking, try these guys...
  http://www.refurbups.com/Catalog/By-APC-RBC-Battery-Number;jsessionid=0a010
 5501f434fd727d50b9643569c308deb23faa548.e3eSc34OaxmTe34Pa38Ta38Qb350
 
OK.  Thanks, both of you.  Info bookmarked for investigation :-)

Anne

Anne,

Are you located in U.S., U.K. or Europe? I couldn't tell?

Thanks,
Glenn 

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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-01-30 Thread Lanny Marcus

On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Anne Wilson
cannewil...@googlemail.com wrote:
 On Thursday 29 January 2009 17:32:00 Les Mikesell wrote:
 Anne Wilson wrote:
  Are the failures power related, or is the system just shutting down on
  its own?
 
  If the latter, I would suspect either a power supply or a processor fan.
  If the former, maybe you need to invest in an inexpensive UPS.
 
  I do have a UPS, and it's fully charged.  The system is just
  spontaneously rebooting or shutting down.

 My first guesses would be the system power supply or the CPU fan.

 I've changed the PSU for a better one, but it may have been not the PSU at
 all.  While fitting the new one my hand brushed against a sata cable, which
 came unplugged.  The connector had cracked.  I've replaced that too.

Cool. I  solved a variety of mysterious HW problems, recently, in two
boxes, by reseating a connector or replacing an EIDE ribbon cable.

I just put three (3) high end Tripp Lite UPS (AVR without using the
battery) into the garage to give away. Probably dead batteries and
other problems. Getting them fixed properly is a PITA here. We bought
two (2) non name brand UPS last Friday and when the store receives
more, we will buy another one. Much much cheaper and if they break
after warranty, I will put them into the garage.

Even if the battery in your APC UPS is fully charged now, I would
assume that it has been through the ringer, with what your village
experienced recently, power wise.
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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

On Friday 30 January 2009 20:51:53 Glenn wrote:

 Are you located in U.S., U.K. or Europe? I couldn't tell?

UK

Anne


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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

On Friday 30 January 2009 21:27:12 Lanny Marcus wrote:

 Even if the battery in your APC UPS is fully charged now, I would
 assume that it has been through the ringer, with what your village
 experienced recently, power wise.

I'm inclined to think so, too.  Do you find that nut handles all brands 
without problems?

Anne


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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-01-30 Thread Glenn

At 04:57 PM 1/30/2009, you wrote:
On Friday 30 January 2009 20:51:53 Glenn wrote:
 
  Are you located in U.S., U.K. or Europe? I couldn't tell?
 
UK

Anne

Reason I asked is because APC has refurbished UPS for half price with 
free shipping a lot of the times in the US. I've had very good luck 
with the refurbished units. Sorry.

Glenn 

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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-01-29 Thread Jeff

On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 9:15 AM, Anne Wilson cannewil...@googlemail.com wrote:
snip
 I assume that the hdd is failing - but I haven't seen any messages
 from smartmontools.  Is there any way I can check that?  If it is I
 don't want to waste time trying to repair it.
snip

Most hdd manufacturers have bootable CD images you can download which
have utilities and thorough diagnostics.

-- 
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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-01-29 Thread Alex H. Vandenham

On Thursday 29 January 2009 10:15:38 am Anne Wilson wrote:
 I assume that the hdd is failing - but I haven't seen any messages
 from smartmontools.  Is there any way I can check that?  If it is I
 don't want to waste time trying to repair it.

try smartctl to see what the monitors have been finding for you.

man smartctl

Alex
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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

on 1-29-2009 8:30 AM Anne Wilson spake the following:
 2009/1/29 Alex H. Vandenham alex-qMVNeVs1MAKw5LPnMra/2...@public.gmane.org:
 On Thursday 29 January 2009 10:15:38 am Anne Wilson wrote:
 I assume that the hdd is failing - but I haven't seen any messages
 from smartmontools.  Is there any way I can check that?  If it is I
 don't want to waste time trying to repair it.
 try smartctl to see what the monitors have been finding for you.

 man smartctl

 Thanks.  I'd been trying to remember what command I needed for that :-)
 
 The short test has completed without errors.  I'll run the long test
 during dinner.  Assuming that that also runs without errors, I guess
 that the next thing is memtest?
 
 More suggestions?
 
 Thanks
 
 Anne
If you had many power failures, the filesystem might just be severely trashed.
Journals and files out of sync, etc... If a good fsck didn't fix it, you might
just be in for a wipe-reinstall, or many hours of finding and fixing corrupted
files.. I would install to a new drive, and then you can take some time
recovering from the old drive as you find things missing. That way you will
still have the old system for whatever might come up. I always seem to find
something that didn't get backed up properly.


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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-01-29 Thread Alex H. Vandenham

On Thursday 29 January 2009 11:37:00 am Scott Silva wrote:


 If you had many power failures, the filesystem might just be severely
 trashed. Journals and files out of sync, etc... If a good fsck didn't fix
 it, you might just be in for a wipe-reinstall, or many hours of finding and
 fixing corrupted files.. I would install to a new drive, and then you can
 take some time recovering from the old drive as you find things missing.
 That way you will still have the old system for whatever might come up. I
 always seem to find something that didn't get backed up properly.


Since you can log in as root, a less drastic first step might be to:

Change your runlevel (as root) to 3 and try a text login (as you) for access 
to your files.

man init

If the kde files are trashed, perhaps you can create another user on the 
system and copy over your personal files, or do a diff to see which kde files 
might have been trashed.

If it really looks bad (disk bad and/or major file corruption) , then I agree 
that a new install might be the way to go but that's significant pain . . . 

Alex
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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009/1/29 Scott Silva ssi...@sgvwater.com:
 on 1-29-2009 8:30 AM Anne Wilson spake the following:
 2009/1/29 Alex H. Vandenham alex-qMVNeVs1MAKw5LPnMra/2...@public.gmane.org:
 On Thursday 29 January 2009 10:15:38 am Anne Wilson wrote:
 I assume that the hdd is failing - but I haven't seen any messages
 from smartmontools.  Is there any way I can check that?  If it is I
 don't want to waste time trying to repair it.
 try smartctl to see what the monitors have been finding for you.

 man smartctl

 Thanks.  I'd been trying to remember what command I needed for that :-)

 The short test has completed without errors.  I'll run the long test
 during dinner.  Assuming that that also runs without errors, I guess
 that the next thing is memtest?

 More suggestions?

 Thanks

 Anne
 If you had many power failures, the filesystem might just be severely trashed.
 Journals and files out of sync, etc... If a good fsck didn't fix it, you might
 just be in for a wipe-reinstall, or many hours of finding and fixing corrupted
 files.. I would install to a new drive, and then you can take some time
 recovering from the old drive as you find things missing. That way you will
 still have the old system for whatever might come up. I always seem to find
 something that didn't get backed up properly.

Two days ago I discovered that the failures had indeed totally trashed
the system.  I did re-install, formatting only / and /boot, but I've
had a couple of these spontaneous shutdowns since then, which is why I
suspected hardware failure.

I've got copies of just about everything, I think, on an external
drive, and I could try another drive as you suggest, mounting the old
one in an external case, which I have.  I can cope with this, but I'm
deeply unhappy about not knowing what happened, and whether it is
likely to happen again.

Anne
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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-01-29 Thread Franklin S Werren

Use Spinrite from www.grc.com
It will work on any file system
I have used it on Windows - Ubuntu Linux - and even an X-Box
Works wonders

Franklin S Werren

Scott Silva wrote:
on 1-29-2009 8:30 AM Anne Wilson spake the following:

2009/1/29 Alex H. Vandenham alex-qMVNeVs1MAKw5LPnMra/2...@public.gmane.org:

On Thursday 29 January 2009 10:15:38 am Anne Wilson wrote:

I assume that the hdd is failing - but I haven't seen any messages
from smartmontools. Is there any way I can check that? If it is I
don't want to waste time trying to repair it.

try smartctl to see what the monitors have been finding for you.

man smartctl

Thanks. I'd been trying to remember what command I needed for that :-)

The short test has completed without errors. I'll run the long test
during dinner. Assuming that that also runs without errors, I guess
that the next thing is memtest?

More suggestions?

Thanks

Anne

If you had many power failures, the filesystem might just be severely trashed.
Journals and files out of sync, etc... If a good fsck didn't fix it, you might
just be in for a wipe-reinstall, or many hours of finding and fixing corrupted
files.. I would install to a new drive, and then you can take some time
recovering from the old drive as you find things missing. That way you will
still have the old system for whatever might come up. I always seem to find
something that didn't get backed up properly.

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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009/1/29 Franklin S Werren ad...@chautauqualake.net:
 Use Spinrite from www.grc.com
 It will work on any file system
 I have used it on Windows - Ubuntu Linux - and even an X-Box
 Works wonders

Data recovery isn't a problem - I've copied everything off.  Still,
I've bookmarked that, just in case.  It's lucky I don't have just one
box :-)

Anne
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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009/1/29 Alex H. Vandenham a...@avantel.ca:
 On Thursday 29 January 2009 11:37:00 am Scott Silva wrote:


 If you had many power failures, the filesystem might just be severely
 trashed. Journals and files out of sync, etc... If a good fsck didn't fix
 it, you might just be in for a wipe-reinstall, or many hours of finding and
 fixing corrupted files.. I would install to a new drive, and then you can
 take some time recovering from the old drive as you find things missing.
 That way you will still have the old system for whatever might come up. I
 always seem to find something that didn't get backed up properly.


 Since you can log in as root, a less drastic first step might be to:

 Change your runlevel (as root) to 3 and try a text login (as you) for access
 to your files.

 man init

 If the kde files are trashed, perhaps you can create another user on the
 system and copy over your personal files, or do a diff to see which kde files
 might have been trashed.

 If it really looks bad (disk bad and/or major file corruption) , then I agree
 that a new install might be the way to go but that's significant pain . . .

Yes, I'll try that first - if I can convince myself that the hardware
is OK.  I really wish I know what caused it, though.

Anne
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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

on 1-29-2009 9:02 AM Anne Wilson spake the following:
 2009/1/29 Scott Silva ssi...@sgvwater.com:
 on 1-29-2009 8:30 AM Anne Wilson spake the following:
 2009/1/29 Alex H. Vandenham 
 alex-qMVNeVs1MAKw5LPnMra/2q-xmd5yjdbdmrexy1tmh2...@public.gmane.org:
 On Thursday 29 January 2009 10:15:38 am Anne Wilson wrote:
 I assume that the hdd is failing - but I haven't seen any messages
 from smartmontools.  Is there any way I can check that?  If it is I
 don't want to waste time trying to repair it.
 try smartctl to see what the monitors have been finding for you.

 man smartctl

 Thanks.  I'd been trying to remember what command I needed for that :-)

 The short test has completed without errors.  I'll run the long test
 during dinner.  Assuming that that also runs without errors, I guess
 that the next thing is memtest?

 More suggestions?

 Thanks

 Anne
 If you had many power failures, the filesystem might just be severely 
 trashed.
 Journals and files out of sync, etc... If a good fsck didn't fix it, you 
 might
 just be in for a wipe-reinstall, or many hours of finding and fixing 
 corrupted
 files.. I would install to a new drive, and then you can take some time
 recovering from the old drive as you find things missing. That way you will
 still have the old system for whatever might come up. I always seem to find
 something that didn't get backed up properly.

 Two days ago I discovered that the failures had indeed totally trashed
 the system.  I did re-install, formatting only / and /boot, but I've
 had a couple of these spontaneous shutdowns since then, which is why I
 suspected hardware failure.
 
 I've got copies of just about everything, I think, on an external
 drive, and I could try another drive as you suggest, mounting the old
 one in an external case, which I have.  I can cope with this, but I'm
 deeply unhappy about not knowing what happened, and whether it is
 likely to happen again.
 
 Anne
Are the failures power related, or is the system just shutting down on its own?

If the latter, I would suspect either a power supply or a processor fan. If
the former, maybe you need to invest in an inexpensive UPS.



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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

 Are the failures power related, or is the system just shutting down on its 
 own?

 If the latter, I would suspect either a power supply or a processor fan. If
 the former, maybe you need to invest in an inexpensive UPS.

I do have a UPS, and it's fully charged.  The system is just
spontaneously rebooting or shutting down.

Anne
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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-01-29 Thread Les Mikesell

Anne Wilson wrote:
 Are the failures power related, or is the system just shutting down on its 
 own?

 If the latter, I would suspect either a power supply or a processor fan. If
 the former, maybe you need to invest in an inexpensive UPS.

 I do have a UPS, and it's fully charged.  The system is just
 spontaneously rebooting or shutting down.

My first guesses would be the system power supply or the CPU fan.

-- 
   Les Mikesell
lesmikes...@gmail.com
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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

on 1-29-2009 9:28 AM Anne Wilson spake the following:
 Are the failures power related, or is the system just shutting down on its 
 own?

 If the latter, I would suspect either a power supply or a processor fan. If
 the former, maybe you need to invest in an inexpensive UPS.

 I do have a UPS, and it's fully charged.  The system is just
 spontaneously rebooting or shutting down.
 
 Anne
Since you have other systems, maybe you could hang something on the serial
port and get the kernel messages there to see if you get any other info that
might not be making it to the logs.


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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-01-29 Thread Toby Bluhm

Anne Wilson wrote:
.
.
.


 I do have a UPS, and it's fully charged.  The system is just
 spontaneously rebooting or shutting down.
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague.

I just fixed a test box that kept getting something like received INT 
11 - no one cared and then locks up. Replaced two caps - I yanked them 
from some old, defunct power supplies.


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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009/1/29 Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com:
 Anne Wilson wrote:
 Are the failures power related, or is the system just shutting down on its 
 own?

 If the latter, I would suspect either a power supply or a processor fan. If
 the former, maybe you need to invest in an inexpensive UPS.

 I do have a UPS, and it's fully charged.  The system is just
 spontaneously rebooting or shutting down.

 My first guesses would be the system power supply or the CPU fan.

I'm beginning to think that way.  The smartctl long test has completed
without errors.  I think that I'll dig out the specs for the mobo/cpu
tonight, then buy a new PSU and CPU fan in the morning.

Anne
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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-01-29 Thread Robert



Anne Wilson wrote:
 2009/1/29 Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com:
   
 Anne Wilson wrote:
 
 Are the failures power related, or is the system just shutting down on its 
 own?

 If the latter, I would suspect either a power supply or a processor fan. If
 the former, maybe you need to invest in an inexpensive UPS.

 
 I do have a UPS, and it's fully charged.  The system is just
 spontaneously rebooting or shutting down.
   
 My first guesses would be the system power supply or the CPU fan.

 
 I'm beginning to think that way.  The smartctl long test has completed
 without errors.  I think that I'll dig out the specs for the mobo/cpu
 tonight, then buy a new PSU and CPU fan in the morning.

 Anne
   
Anne, the machine I'm using right now ate my lunch big-time, perhaps a 
year ago.  It turned out to be the front panel momentary power switch on 
the junky consumer-grade case.  The really weird thing is, this box runs 
24x7 and the switch hasn't been used very much. Go figure.  
Work-around/proof was to disconnect the power switch entirely, plugging 
reset switch to the vacated pwr sw header.
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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-01-29 Thread Lanny Marcus

On 1/29/09, Anne Wilson cannewil...@googlemail.com wrote:
 2009/1/29 Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com:
 Anne Wilson wrote:
 Are the failures power related, or is the system just shutting down on
 its own?

 If the latter, I would suspect either a power supply or a processor fan.
 If
 the former, maybe you need to invest in an inexpensive UPS.

 I do have a UPS, and it's fully charged.  The system is just
 spontaneously rebooting or shutting down.

 My first guesses would be the system power supply or the CPU fan.

 I'm beginning to think that way.  The smartctl long test has completed
 without errors.  I think that I'll dig out the specs for the mobo/cpu
 tonight, then buy a new PSU and CPU fan in the morning.

Assuming that the Diagnostic tests you run on the hard drive and RAM
are OK, if the box was made by Dell, Compaq/HP, etc., they probably
have Diagnostics you can run on the mobo/cpu that you can Download
from their web site. If not, hopefully from the web site of the mobo
manufacturer.

You said that the UPS is fully charged. I wonder if you need a UPS
with larger capacity and if your UPS is working properly. Depends on
how long the frequent outages were that day. My observation is that if
the power goes down (especially when we have Thunderstorm activity) it
may come back up and then go down again, sometimes in 1 or 2 minutes
or less.

The cheap PSU's are vastly over rated, with regard to their capacity.
The one I bought for this Dell Dimension 2400 a few weeks ago says
550 watts. The motherboard repairman told me he believes the true
capacity is about 50% of that.

If your data is critical, the backups should be stored off site. There
are some companies mentioned on webhostingtalk.com who provide backup
service to their servers over the Internet.

In my own box, the vast majority of the symptoms, if not all symptoms,
disappeared, after I unplugged the connectors and reseated them. Then,
the new PSU.   In my wife's box, a strange intermittent problem,
where the BIOS couldn't see the hard drive when booting, disappeared,
when I replaced the EIDE cable.

When you have the cover off, put your hand on the Shroud over the CPU
and see whether or not it is hot or cool. If it is hot, that's not an
indication of good cooling.  The Capacitors on the motherboard should
look alike and not be hot to the touch.  GL
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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

On Thursday 29 January 2009 20:23:40 Lanny Marcus wrote:
 Anne, the machine I'm using right now ate my lunch big-time, perhaps a
 year ago.  It turned out to be the front panel momentary power switch on
 the junky consumer-grade case.  The really weird thing is, this box runs
 24x7 and the switch hasn't been used very much. Go figure.  
 Work-around/proof was to disconnect the power switch entirely, plugging
 reset switch to the vacated pwr sw header.

As far as I can see, all that's gone is my ~/.kde - and that's a big enough 
pain :-)  So far, everything I've checked has been fine, so I'm thinking that 
it's either power or over-heating.  Since I've been running tests for several 
hours, I'm inclined to rule out over-heating, so I'll get a new PSU.  The case 
was not a cheap one, but it did have a built-in PSU.  Come to think of it, I 
do believe that I have a 400w PSU in my cupboard, that is a known good brand, 
and unused.

Anne


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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

On Thursday 29 January 2009 20:23:40 Lanny Marcus wrote:
 Assuming that the Diagnostic tests you run on the hard drive and RAM
 are OK, if the box was made by Dell, Compaq/HP, etc., they probably
 have Diagnostics you can run on the mobo/cpu that you can Download
 from their web site. If not, hopefully from the web site of the mobo
 manufacturer.

It's a home-build.  I've been doing this since about 1990.  The drives are 
Hitachi, and I seem to recall that once before I tried to run the Hitachi 
diagnostics, without success.  My request for help/information from them was 
ignored.  However, at the time I got the drives they had a good warranty 
period, which is something I always check as a guide to how much confidence  
the manufacturer has in them.

 You said that the UPS is fully charged. I wonder if you need a UPS
 with larger capacity and if your UPS is working properly. 

I don't think there's any problem with the UPS (APC).

 Depends on
 how long the frequent outages were that day. My observation is that if
 the power goes down (especially when we have Thunderstorm activity) it
 may come back up and then go down again, sometimes in 1 or 2 minutes
 or less.

The village has had several weeks of being powered by emergency generators 
stuck in fields.  We've had very many power dips and momentary losses, then in 
the space of last week we had an 11-hour outage, followed a few days later by 
a 4.5 hour one and two short ones soon after that.  I think it was the 
rapidity of those outages that caused the problem.

 The cheap PSU's are vastly over rated, with regard to their capacity.
 The one I bought for this Dell Dimension 2400 a few weeks ago says
 550 watts. The motherboard repairman told me he believes the true
 capacity is about 50% of that.

I buy only recommended brands, and watch the load.  However, that box has a 
PSU that came with the (not cheap) box, so I don't know the quality.  I think 
it should be replaced.  I can't remember its rating - I'll check tomorrow when 
I pull the box out.

 If your data is critical, the backups should be stored off site. There
 are some companies mentioned on webhostingtalk.com who provide backup
 service to their servers over the Internet.

Critical only to me - personal stuff.  All the same, I take your point.  I 
will move the backups to a safer spot.

 In my own box, the vast majority of the symptoms, if not all symptoms,
 disappeared, after I unplugged the connectors and reseated them. Then,
 the new PSU.   In my wife's box, a strange intermittent problem,
 where the BIOS couldn't see the hard drive when booting, disappeared,
 when I replaced the EIDE cable.

 When you have the cover off, put your hand on the Shroud over the CPU
 and see whether or not it is hot or cool. If it is hot, that's not an
 indication of good cooling.  The Capacitors on the motherboard should
 look alike and not be hot to the touch.  GL

I'll check those at the same time.  Thanks for the reply

Anne


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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-01-29 Thread Glenn

At 03:44 PM 1/29/2009, you wrote:
On Thursday 29 January 2009 20:23:40 Lanny Marcus wrote:
  Assuming that the Diagnostic tests you run on the hard drive and RAM
  are OK, if the box was made by Dell, Compaq/HP, etc., they probably
  have Diagnostics you can run on the mobo/cpu that you can Download
  from their web site. If not, hopefully from the web site of the mobo
  manufacturer.
 
It's a home-build.  I've been doing this since about 1990.  The drives are
Hitachi, and I seem to recall that once before I tried to run the Hitachi
diagnostics, without success.  My request for help/information from them was
ignored.  However, at the time I got the drives they had a good warranty
period, which is something I always check as a guide to how much confidence
the manufacturer has in them.

  You said that the UPS is fully charged. I wonder if you need a UPS
  with larger capacity and if your UPS is working properly.

I don't think there's any problem with the UPS (APC).

  Depends on
  how long the frequent outages were that day. My observation is that if
  the power goes down (especially when we have Thunderstorm activity) it
  may come back up and then go down again, sometimes in 1 or 2 minutes
  or less.
 
The village has had several weeks of being powered by emergency generators
stuck in fields.  We've had very many power dips and momentary 
losses, then in
the space of last week we had an 11-hour outage, followed a few days later by
a 4.5 hour one and two short ones soon after that.  I think it was the
rapidity of those outages that caused the problem.

  The cheap PSU's are vastly over rated, with regard to their capacity.
  The one I bought for this Dell Dimension 2400 a few weeks ago says
  550 watts. The motherboard repairman told me he believes the true
  capacity is about 50% of that.
 
I buy only recommended brands, and watch the load.  However, that box has a
PSU that came with the (not cheap) box, so I don't know the quality.  I think
it should be replaced.  I can't remember its rating - I'll check 
tomorrow when
I pull the box out.

  If your data is critical, the backups should be stored off site. There
  are some companies mentioned on webhostingtalk.com who provide backup
  service to their servers over the Internet.
 
Critical only to me - personal stuff.  All the same, I take your point.  I
will move the backups to a safer spot.

  In my own box, the vast majority of the symptoms, if not all symptoms,
  disappeared, after I unplugged the connectors and reseated them. Then,
  the new PSU.   In my wife's box, a strange intermittent problem,
  where the BIOS couldn't see the hard drive when booting, disappeared,
  when I replaced the EIDE cable.
 
  When you have the cover off, put your hand on the Shroud over the CPU
  and see whether or not it is hot or cool. If it is hot, that's not an
  indication of good cooling.  The Capacitors on the motherboard should
  look alike and not be hot to the touch.  GL

Capacitors on the motherboard will look like they are rounded and 
bowing upward or cracked, or may even have some yellowish, dried, 
liquid, if they are defective. If they are intermittent, they may 
show only the slightest signs of this. The capacitors have a liquid 
inside that literally cooks off if they get too hot.

I'll check those at the same time.  Thanks for the reply

Anne


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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-01-29 Thread Chris Boyd


On Jan 29, 2009, at 2:44 PM, Anne Wilson wrote:


 You said that the UPS is fully charged. I wonder if you need a UPS
 with larger capacity and if your UPS is working properly.

 I don't think there's any problem with the UPS (APC).

I've seen APC rack mount systems shut down the power outlets when  
doing their self-test and the batteries were dodgy.

--Chris
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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-01-29 Thread Lanny Marcus

On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Chris Boyd cb...@gizmopartners.com wrote:
 On Jan 29, 2009, at 2:44 PM, Anne Wilson wrote:
 You said that the UPS is fully charged. I wonder if you need a UPS
 with larger capacity and if your UPS is working properly.

 I don't think there's any problem with the UPS (APC).

 I've seen APC rack mount systems shut down the power outlets when
 doing their self-test and the batteries were dodgy.

After reading that her village was on generator power, etc., I would
be suspicious of the health of that UPS. If the box has problems, it
may be because the UPS was unable to cope with the very heavy
prolonged workload. If the UPS does not have Automatic Voltage
Regulation, without using the battery, it would also have been working
harder?
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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed

2009-01-29 Thread Aldo Foot

On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 9:32 AM, Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com wrote:
 Anne Wilson wrote:
 Are the failures power related, or is the system just shutting down on its 
 own?

 If the latter, I would suspect either a power supply or a processor fan. If
 the former, maybe you need to invest in an inexpensive UPS.

 I do have a UPS, and it's fully charged.  The system is just
 spontaneously rebooting or shutting down.

 My first guesses would be the system power supply or the CPU fan.

 --
   Les Mikesell
lesmikes...@gmail.com

Yesterday I had a system shutting down on its own. It would power up
and stay on, but I discover that the PSU fans were not spinning.  The
failing fans explained a warning message at POST indicating that the
system was overheating and needed immediate repairs.

~af
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Re: [CentOS] Emergency rescue help needed