Re: [CentOS] Re: how to debug hardware lockups?
On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 09:32:05AM +0200, Rudi Ahlers wrote: This comes down't to the old question of what is a server? rant deleted, mail trimmed a server just works, and provide a usable way to debug the OS whenever it's needed (mostly never). Cheap server have at least a serial port, because that the minimal device to interact with the bios/OS. More expensive server have some out of band management capabilities. Most of the time, they are not used, but when we **need** them these plus save your time which is what we value most (isn't it). But your server, your problems, and your choices. Just my .2 cents Tru -- Tru Huynh (mirrors, CentOS-3 i386/x86_64 Package Maintenance) http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xBEFA581B pgp0YeiHMcrfW.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: how to debug hardware lockups?
On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 10:14 AM, Tru Huynh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 09:32:05AM +0200, Rudi Ahlers wrote: This comes down't to the old question of what is a server? rant deleted, mail trimmed a server just works, and provide a usable way to debug the OS whenever it's needed (mostly never). Cheap server have at least a serial port, because that the minimal device to interact with the bios/OS. More expensive server have some out of band management capabilities. Most of the time, they are not used, but when we **need** them these plus save your time which is what we value most (isn't it). But your server, your problems, and your choices. Just my .2 cents Tru -- Sure, I understand that. But then again, on my Dell servers, when I have problems, I sit with the same issues. And those expensive motherboards doesn't give me anything more than the cheaper ones. In fact, when the RAM failed on the Dell's, they were unusable untill I could get new RAM from a different supplier. With the cheaper board, I drive down to the first PC shop and get new RAM. -- Kind Regards Rudi Ahlers ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: how to debug hardware lockups?
Rudi Ahlers wrote: Sure, I understand that. But then again, on my Dell servers, when I have problems, I sit with the same issues. And those expensive motherboards doesn't give me anything more than the cheaper ones. In fact, when the RAM failed on the Dell's, they were unusable untill I could get new RAM from a different supplier. With the cheaper board, I drive down to the first PC shop and get new RAM. I suppose it depends on what dells you have. On the latest 1950 III systems we have they have moderately good diagnostics similar to HP systems. The system log tells me what DIMM module is spitting out errors so I don't need to go through the trouble of narrowing down which one(s) is bad. I only started using Dell recently since I started my new job in March, before that was mostly HP and Supermicro. HP certainly has great quality stuff though you do generally pay quite a bit more for it. Depending on what the server is doing would depend if I'd really push for that level of quality. Certainly anything that is a single point of failure I would want on a higher quality system. I'm not sure if Dell's motherboards go so far as to having diagnostic LEDs on them to point out what part is faulty. HP has been doing that for a long time now. The latest HP G5s port the LEDs to the front of the chassis so you don't even have to open it up or load any software you can just look at the front and see if a DIMM is going bad or a voltage regulator, or a PSU, or a CPU etc. Earlier systems just had a generic health LED, which would say good/degraded/bad. But it couldn't give any information as to what was causing the problem. Granted not as useful for a remote location if nobody is on site to look at the LEDs, though for many smaller places that actually do have people on site on a regular basis it's real handy. nate ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: how to debug hardware lockups?
Scott Silva wrote: Does it have any out of bandwidth management like Dell's drac or HP's ILO? in the original post he said... The CPU is an Intel Q9300 Core 2 Quad, with 8 GB RAM, on an Intel Motherboard and upon further questioning... The motherboard is a Intel DG35EC - http://www.intel.com/products/desktop/motherboards/DG35EC/DG35EC-overview.htm which is purely a desktop board (onboard Intel graphics, etc). ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: how to debug hardware lockups?
On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 2:52 AM, Scott Silva [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 11-15-2008 3:32 PM John R Pierce spake the following: Rudi Ahlers wrote: No, the motherboard doesn't support ECC RAM. The motherboard is a Intel DG35EC - http://www.intel.com/products/desktop/motherboards/DG35EC/DG35EC-overview.htm midrange business desktop board. I use a DG33TL as my desktop, same thing. It just doesn't pay to run critical systems on desktop hardware. Companies think they are saving money, until the downtime eats away any initial savings. Sure, but it also doesn't pay to purchase a 10Ton truck to move a 1Ton load :) Bottom line is, you purchase the hardware for the needs that you have. Not every situation warrents a quad XEON on a blade system. The problem is, I have another server, with a slower CPU, half the RAM a gigabyte motherboard, yet it can handle the same load. This server runs 4 XEN VPS's, which I moved to the slower machine, and the slower machines handles the load very well. So, where does the problem lie? With the cheap desktop hardware ? I don't think so. Rather, I believe there's a hardware problem - i.e. CPU / RAM / motherboard / PSU? I have reinstalled the OS (CentOS 5.2), and swapped out the HDD's as well - so that's not causing the problem. -- Kind Regards Rudi Ahlers ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: how to debug hardware lockups?
On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 9:20 AM, Rudi Ahlers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 2:52 AM, Scott Silva [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 11-15-2008 3:32 PM John R Pierce spake the following: Rudi Ahlers wrote: No, the motherboard doesn't support ECC RAM. The motherboard is a Intel DG35EC - http://www.intel.com/products/desktop/motherboards/DG35EC/DG35EC-overview.htm midrange business desktop board. I use a DG33TL as my desktop, same thing. It just doesn't pay to run critical systems on desktop hardware. Companies think they are saving money, until the downtime eats away any initial savings. Sure, but it also doesn't pay to purchase a 10Ton truck to move a 1Ton load :) Bottom line is, you purchase the hardware for the needs that you have. Not every situation warrents a quad XEON on a blade system. The problem is, I have another server, with a slower CPU, half the RAM a gigabyte motherboard, yet it can handle the same load. This server runs 4 XEN VPS's, which I moved to the slower machine, and the slower machines handles the load very well. So, where does the problem lie? With the cheap desktop hardware ? I don't think so. Rather, I believe there's a hardware problem - i.e. CPU / RAM / motherboard / PSU? I have reinstalled the OS (CentOS 5.2), and swapped out the HDD's as well - so that's not causing the problem. -- Kind Regards Rudi Ahlers This comes down't to the old question of what is a server? Is a server, a) the most powerful, reliable, expensive computer equipment on the planet? b) a machine that serves something to other machines, i.e. a web / database / email / backup / print / etc server? And does it mean that if the motherboard is not a Titan / SuperMicro board, it's not a server? Come on, that is BS! My 15 year old Pentium I PRO (Socket 8 CPU), still serves very well as a firewall, and will boudle back as a file server at any given moment. In fact, I think it's far more stable than many Dell servers I have worked on. Just cause a company like Dell or SuperMicro builds expensive components and offer a 4 hour support structure does not make them superior to other computer components. -- Kind Regards Rudi Ahlers ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
