Re: [CentOS] Ruby rails rpm package
On Tue, November 20, 2012 10:28, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: Here, they use Ruby, the enterprise version - is that what you mean by RBENV or RVM? The next release of ruby? from RH? will be the 1.93 or some such, and include all the stuff in the enterprise version. RNENV and RVM are Ruby language installers that create a custom programming environment by user. REE is simply a modified Ruby VM based on 1.8.7 which was produced by the same people who provide the Passenger gem. Support of REE is / will be discontinued as MRI (Matz Ruby Interpreter) version 1.9.3 addresses most of the issues with v 1.8 that REE attempted to correct. Development tools on a production box are a very, VERY bad idea. I assume you can build the ruby app on your development box, and then move it as a package to test, then prod. I am not sure that I can agree with this. All of our application servers are sealed. There are no local users other than administrators and application pseudo-users so the presence or absence of development tools is mostly moot. Anyone who penetrates a sealed server already knows enough that the absence of development tools is a negligible inconvenience. On the other hand, many RubyGems must be custom built on their target hosts. This is particularly true for DB adapters. To keep these gems up-to-date requires build tools. I suppose that I could direct that all build tools be removed after a gem update and reinstalled as required but the illusionary security benefit is simply not worth the very real labour cost. I've also seen an article or two about ruby not scaling up well. From my experience here, the apps seem to be *very* fragile, and First, there are a lot of fragile COBOL applications that have been running in large corporations for decades. I know, I worked on some of them. On one system, run by a now defunct telecommunications giant, the corporate accounting staff had to calculate foreign currency adjustments off line and explicitly ADD the resulting figures to the production cost system as component items. This was necessary because the existing system did not handle foreign currencies and NO ONE was going to take the responsibility for breaking the entire cost accounting application just to add that feature. Just consider how fragile that is. The reason that there are a lot of fragile Ruby (and a plethora of any other languages that you care to name) Apps is mostly due to the sudden popularity of the language generated by the creation of a 'cool' new framework (in this case Ruby on Rails). The result is attraction of swarms of people from other languages who throw up (in both senses of the term) hastily built, generally untested, toy applications that simply are not designed to handle growth; or simply not designed at all. That is likely the case with most of these supposed 'fragile' apps. Apps which no-one seems able to name however. If one comes to Ruby from Python or PHP or MVB or dot.net or Java or C++ or C and just starts coding then one likely will end up with a Python, PHP, VB, dot.net, Java, C++ or C application. It will be written in Ruby but it will not be a Ruby app. The problem is succinctly put by the observation that one can write Fortran in any language. Of course, if you come from Smalltalk, then the case is somewhat altered. But, I digress. it reminds me of python 10-12 years ago, where updating it one or two subreleases broke everything that had been working, including system tools. I cannot speak to what happened with Python a dozen years ago but it seems to me irrelevant to what is happening with Ruby today. ObStmt: No, I don't like ruby. I would never have guessed. -- *** E-Mail is NOT a SECURE channel *** James B. Byrnemailto:byrn...@harte-lyne.ca Harte Lyne Limited http://www.harte-lyne.ca 9 Brockley Drive vox: +1 905 561 1241 Hamilton, Ontario fax: +1 905 561 0757 Canada L8E 3C3 ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Ruby rails rpm package
On Nov 20, 2012, at 8:28 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: James B. Byrne wrote: On Tue, November 20, 2012 06:53, C. L. Martinez wrote: On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Phil Dobbin bukowskis...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/20/2012 08:39 AM, C. L. Martinez wrote: Somebody knows if exists some rpm package for ruby rails?? Normally, rubygems is the way to go to install Rails. Sure, but how can I update rubygems installed in one system?? The main problem with RHEL and Ruby on Rails is that the version of Ruby available for EL6 from reputable repositories is too old. RoR 3.2 can get by on 1.8.7 but support for Ruby versions prior to 1.9.3 is being dropped in the forthcoming RoR v4 release. Thus, a RHEL/CentOS rpm package for Rails really will not give you much, if anything. I suggest that you investigate both RBENV and RVM as alternatives to using the rpm packaged Ruby. I advise you consider that for RoR projects the Bundler gem is the preferred way of installing and managing project specific packages, including Rails itself. The down side to this approach is that your production servers need to have development tools installed to build the Ruby interpreter and the support gems. The up side is that you can version specific ruby vms and gemsets on a project by project basis. https://github.com/sstephenson/rbenv https://rvm.io/ http://gembundler.com/ I used rvm almost from its inception but have recently changed to rbenv as this has a much smaller footprint on the user's environment. But both are excellent products. If you are installing RoR for a production environment then you will almost certainly need to consider using Passenger (mod-rails) as well. https://www.phusionpassenger.com/ Here, they use Ruby, the enterprise version - is that what you mean by RBENV or RVM? The next release of ruby? from RH? will be the 1.93 or some such, and include all the stuff in the enterprise version. Development tools on a production box are a very, VERY bad idea. I assume you can build the ruby app on your development box, and then move it as a package to test, then prod. I've also seen an article or two about ruby not scaling up well. From my experience here, the apps seem to be *very* fragile, and it reminds me of python 10-12 years ago, where updating it one or two subreleases broke everything that had been working, including system tools. ObStmt: No, I don't like ruby. enterprise ruby is 1.8.7 and ideal for CentOS 5.x but James is correct that rbenv or rvm will give you an amazing amount of flexibility - the ability to run different versions of ruby on a single server. Ruby is the backbone for many configuration management systems such as puppet and chef and it scales fine. It's only fragile when deployed by people who assume knowledge they don't possess. Ruby is also used for one of the most brilliant software deployment systems (capistrano) ever. Ruby and the various gems/frameworks that it has spawned have been changing more rapidly than an enterprise bundle such as CentOS and its' upstream counterpart could ever embrace (likewise, Ubuntu) and thus the tools like rvm, rbenv and the basic distribution tool of ruby itself, gem are really the only adequate tools which does mean having the development tools on a production box. It seems that the notion of not wanting development tools on a production box has roots in an older world where it would slow down an attacker by making it harder for him to compile software on a hacked account but seriously, that's so old school. Craig ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Ruby rails rpm package
Craig White wrote: On Nov 20, 2012, at 8:28 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: James B. Byrne wrote: On Tue, November 20, 2012 06:53, C. L. Martinez wrote: On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Phil Dobbin bukowskis...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/20/2012 08:39 AM, C. L. Martinez wrote: snip Ruby and the various gems/frameworks that it has spawned have been changing more rapidly than an enterprise bundle such as CentOS and its' upstream counterpart could ever embrace (likewise, Ubuntu) and thus the So, every subrelease breaks something that ran fine on the previous release? Is that what you're saying? tools like rvm, rbenv and the basic distribution tool of ruby itself, gem are really the only adequate tools which does mean having the development tools on a production box. It seems that the notion of not wanting development tools on a production box has roots in an older world where it would slow down an attacker by making it harder for him to compile software on a hacked account but seriously, that's so old school. So old school. Yep. And it's so much more secure, and bullet proof to be hit by crackers and script kiddies? I don't think so. mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Ruby rails rpm package
On 11/20/2012 08:39 AM, C. L. Martinez wrote: Hi all, Somebody knows if exists some rpm package for ruby rails?? Normally, rubygems is the way to go to install Rails. Cheers, Phil... -- currently (ab)using CentOS 5.8 6.3, Debian Squeeze Wheezy, Fedora Beefy, OS X Snow Leopard Ubuntu Precise Quantal signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Ruby rails rpm package
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Phil Dobbin bukowskis...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/20/2012 08:39 AM, C. L. Martinez wrote: Hi all, Somebody knows if exists some rpm package for ruby rails?? Normally, rubygems is the way to go to install Rails. Cheers, Phil... Sure, but how can I update rubygems installed in one system?? ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Ruby rails rpm package
On 11/20/2012 11:53 AM, C. L. Martinez wrote: On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Phil Dobbin bukowskis...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/20/2012 08:39 AM, C. L. Martinez wrote: Hi all, Somebody knows if exists some rpm package for ruby rails?? Normally, rubygems is the way to go to install Rails. Cheers, Phil... Sure, but how can I update rubygems installed in one system?? $ gem update --system. This is dependent on how you have your rubygems set up. You may have to pass sudo to that command. This all documented heavily on teh Interwebs. Try http://docs.rubygems.org/ I'd also recommend having a look at the Ruby Version Manager: http://https://rvm.io/ Cheers, Phil... -- currently (ab)using CentOS 5.8 6.3, Debian Squeeze Wheezy, Fedora Beefy, OS X Snow Leopard Ubuntu Precise Quantal signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Ruby rails rpm package
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 12:38 PM, Phil Dobbin bukowskis...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/20/2012 11:53 AM, C. L. Martinez wrote: On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Phil Dobbin bukowskis...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/20/2012 08:39 AM, C. L. Martinez wrote: Hi all, Somebody knows if exists some rpm package for ruby rails?? Normally, rubygems is the way to go to install Rails. Cheers, Phil... Sure, but how can I update rubygems installed in one system?? $ gem update --system. This is dependent on how you have your rubygems set up. You may have to pass sudo to that command. This all documented heavily on teh Interwebs. Try http://docs.rubygems.org/ I'd also recommend having a look at the Ruby Version Manager: http://https://rvm.io/ Cheers, Phil... -- Many thanks Phil. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Ruby rails rpm package
On Tue, November 20, 2012 06:53, C. L. Martinez wrote: On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Phil Dobbin bukowskis...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/20/2012 08:39 AM, C. L. Martinez wrote: Hi all, Somebody knows if exists some rpm package for ruby rails?? Normally, rubygems is the way to go to install Rails. Cheers, Phil... Sure, but how can I update rubygems installed in one system?? The main problem with RHEL and Ruby on Rails is that the version of Ruby available for EL6 from reputable repositories is too old. RoR 3.2 can get by on 1.8.7 but support for Ruby versions prior to 1.9.3 is being dropped in the forthcoming RoR v4 release. Thus, a RHEL/CentOS rpm package for Rails really will not give you much, if anything. I suggest that you investigate both RBENV and RVM as alternatives to using the rpm packaged Ruby. I advise you consider that for RoR projects the Bundler gem is the preferred way of installing and managing project specific packages, including Rails itself. The down side to this approach is that your production servers need to have development tools installed to build the Ruby interpreter and the support gems. The up side is that you can version specific ruby vms and gemsets on a project by project basis. https://github.com/sstephenson/rbenv https://rvm.io/ http://gembundler.com/ I used rvm almost from its inception but have recently changed to rbenv as this has a much smaller footprint on the user's environment. But both are excellent products. If you are installing RoR for a production environment then you will almost certainly need to consider using Passenger (mod-rails) as well. https://www.phusionpassenger.com/ HTH. -- *** E-Mail is NOT a SECURE channel *** James B. Byrnemailto:byrn...@harte-lyne.ca Harte Lyne Limited http://www.harte-lyne.ca 9 Brockley Drive vox: +1 905 561 1241 Hamilton, Ontario fax: +1 905 561 0757 Canada L8E 3C3 ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Ruby rails rpm package
James B. Byrne wrote: On Tue, November 20, 2012 06:53, C. L. Martinez wrote: On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Phil Dobbin bukowskis...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/20/2012 08:39 AM, C. L. Martinez wrote: Somebody knows if exists some rpm package for ruby rails?? Normally, rubygems is the way to go to install Rails. Sure, but how can I update rubygems installed in one system?? The main problem with RHEL and Ruby on Rails is that the version of Ruby available for EL6 from reputable repositories is too old. RoR 3.2 can get by on 1.8.7 but support for Ruby versions prior to 1.9.3 is being dropped in the forthcoming RoR v4 release. Thus, a RHEL/CentOS rpm package for Rails really will not give you much, if anything. I suggest that you investigate both RBENV and RVM as alternatives to using the rpm packaged Ruby. I advise you consider that for RoR projects the Bundler gem is the preferred way of installing and managing project specific packages, including Rails itself. The down side to this approach is that your production servers need to have development tools installed to build the Ruby interpreter and the support gems. The up side is that you can version specific ruby vms and gemsets on a project by project basis. https://github.com/sstephenson/rbenv https://rvm.io/ http://gembundler.com/ I used rvm almost from its inception but have recently changed to rbenv as this has a much smaller footprint on the user's environment. But both are excellent products. If you are installing RoR for a production environment then you will almost certainly need to consider using Passenger (mod-rails) as well. https://www.phusionpassenger.com/ Here, they use Ruby, the enterprise version - is that what you mean by RBENV or RVM? The next release of ruby? from RH? will be the 1.93 or some such, and include all the stuff in the enterprise version. Development tools on a production box are a very, VERY bad idea. I assume you can build the ruby app on your development box, and then move it as a package to test, then prod. I've also seen an article or two about ruby not scaling up well. From my experience here, the apps seem to be *very* fragile, and it reminds me of python 10-12 years ago, where updating it one or two subreleases broke everything that had been working, including system tools. ObStmt: No, I don't like ruby. mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
