Re: [CentOS] interview request for ppl who have Shockwave/.Firefox working
-Original Message- From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On Behalf Of Robert Heller Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 3:25 AM To: CentOS mailing list Cc: CentOS mailing list Subject: Re: [CentOS] interview request for ppl who have Shockwave/.Firefox working I'm wondering if anyone running CentOS 5.5 has Shockwave on Firefox working. I have made no attempt to watch longer videos with flash. I do watch 3-5 minute music videos all the time, but I use mplayer for those (even the FLV files I have downloaded from YouTube). Is Shockwave the same thing as Flash? At least for Windows two separate installers are needed. AFAIK, Shockwave isn't available for anything but Windows and possibly Mac, while a working Flash is available for most platforms. Just to mention it, I've installed the 64b Adobe Flash preview release on CentOS 5.5 x64 and can now luxuriate in viewing Youtube from Linux. 8-] -- /Sorin smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] interview request for ppl who have Shockwave/.Firefox working
On 04/03/2011 08:06 PM Yves Bellefeuille wrote: On Sunday 03 April 2011 18:41, ken wrote: For a long time now I've wanted to be able to watch videos. I've done the try this! and try that! method and it hasn't worked well. So I'm wondering if anyone running CentOS 5.5 has Shockwave on Firefox working. Are you perhaps confusing Shockwave and Flash? Most videos on the Web are in Flash format. Simply install flash-plugin, available on RPMForge, http://rpmrepo.org/RPMforge Yves, What does your about:plugins page say? (For explication, see the about:plugins subthread.) Or do you have some other diagnostic which indicates these are not the same? Thanks. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] interview request for ppl who have Shockwave/.Firefox working
Hi, maybe this is not really helpful for you. But maybe you want try fedora linux for websurfing. Its also RHEL based. I don't know why you need a webbrowser on an enterprise linux. For me is links or lynks enough on CentOS ;-) Best regards, -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] Im Auftrag von ken Gesendet: Montag, 4. April 2011 14:10 An: CentOS mailing list Betreff: Re: [CentOS] interview request for ppl who have Shockwave/.Firefox working On 04/03/2011 08:06 PM Yves Bellefeuille wrote: On Sunday 03 April 2011 18:41, ken wrote: For a long time now I've wanted to be able to watch videos. I've done the try this! and try that! method and it hasn't worked well. So I'm wondering if anyone running CentOS 5.5 has Shockwave on Firefox working. Are you perhaps confusing Shockwave and Flash? Most videos on the Web are in Flash format. Simply install flash-plugin, available on RPMForge, http://rpmrepo.org/RPMforge Yves, What does your about:plugins page say? (For explication, see the about:plugins subthread.) Or do you have some other diagnostic which indicates these are not the same? Thanks. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] interview request for ppl who have Shockwave/.Firefox working
On Monday 04 April 2011 08:09, ken wrote: What does your about:plugins page say? (For explication, see the about:plugins subthread.) Or do you have some other diagnostic which indicates these are not the same? It does say Shockwave Flash. Now isn't that interesting, because Adobe itself says they're different things. In the download section at http://www.adobe.com/products/ , they're listed separately and, as Sorin pointed out, Shockwave isn't even available for Linux. Anyway, did you download Flash for Linux at http://www.adobe.com/go/getflashplayer ? Regards, -- Yves Bellefeuille y...@storm.ca La Esperanta Civito ne rifuzas anticipe la kunlaboron de erarintoj, se ili konscias pri sia eraro. -- Heroldo Komunikas, n-ro 473. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] interview request for ppl who have Shockwave/.Firefox working
-Original Message- From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On Behalf Of Yves Bellefeuille Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 2:38 PM To: CentOS mailing list Subject: Re: [CentOS] interview request for ppl who have Shockwave/.Firefox working Anyway, did you download Flash for Linux at http://www.adobe.com/go/getflashplayer ? Who, me? -- /Sorin smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] interview request for ppl who have Shockwave/.Firefox working
On 04/03/2011 09:24 PM Robert Heller wrote: At Sun, 03 Apr 2011 18:41:35 -0400 CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org wrote: For a long time now I've wanted to be able to watch videos. I've done the try this! and try that! method and it hasn't worked well. So I'm wondering if anyone running CentOS 5.5 has Shockwave on Firefox working. Currently it works for me with short videos-- up to two or three minutes long. However, when Shockwave is enabled, CPU usage jumps to 99%, sometimes even 100%! If I disable it CPU usage goes down to 1 - 5%. (For those who speak load avg, I've seen highs of 6 and 8... as opposed to the no Shockwave-now of 0.14 to 0.45.) So with the CPU already buried just by having Shockwave is enabled, if a video lasts longer than four minutes, gaps in the video's continuity begin to appear, and by ten minutes in the video is locked up altogether. What's everyone else's experience with this? Does anyone have a setup where they can view a 1.5-hour video normally... and maybe even work in their editor alongside it at the same time? If so, would you be open to explaining what hardware and software etc. you've got so that this works so well? I am able to watch 1/2 hour TV shows with flash-plugin-10.2.152.27-release from Adobe's repo in Firefox (firefox-3.6.13-2.el5.centos), on my i686 IBM ThinkPad X31 laptop (which has 512Meg of memory and a 1700MHz, Pentium M processor), using CentOS 5.5. The CPU does get hot (the fan fires up sometimes). Oh, I use a *very* lightweight X11 setup: I don't use GNome or KDE or any sort of 'Desktop Manager' system at all. Just FVWM in MWM mode. Virtually NO 'eye candy' at all. My system boots to runlevel 3 and I fire up X11 from my login. I have made no attempt to watch longer videos with flash. I do watch 3-5 minute music videos all the time, but I use mplayer for those (even the FLV files I have downloaded from YouTube). Robert, you bring up a good point about X. But two things: First, my Dell i600m has the same CPU as your machine, except that mine is a 1500MHz, a tad slower, but I have 2G of RAM and so swap is almost never even touched. Still, since it's my CPU which is getting jammed up by Flash|Shockwave, perhaps measures to ease the load on the CPU generally would be a good strategy. Secondly, still, as said previously, when Shockwave isn't playing a video (but with gnome and everything else running as usual), my CPU's load avg is trivial, giving me no reason to suspect gnome or anything else I'm running is a hog worth trimming. All indications point to Shockwave itself as being the problem. NB: While writing this, yum-updated just gave me flash-plugin-10.2.153.1-0.1.el5.rf.i386.rpm. So I've upgraded from flash-plugin-10.2.153.1-release.src.rpm... hopefully it's the fix I need. Robert, thanks for the response. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] interview request for ppl who have Shockwave/.Firefox working
On 04/04/2011 08:37 AM Yves Bellefeuille wrote: On Monday 04 April 2011 08:09, ken wrote: What does your about:plugins page say? (For explication, see the about:plugins subthread.) Or do you have some other diagnostic which indicates these are not the same? It does say Shockwave Flash. Now isn't that interesting, because Adobe itself says they're different things. In the download section at http://www.adobe.com/products/ , they're listed separately and, as Sorin pointed out, Shockwave isn't even available for Linux. Perhaps the adobe webpage is a bit incomplete, or maybe they're talking about the Windows plugins, I don't know. I have to believe more what I read on my system. Anyway, did you download Flash for Linux at http://www.adobe.com/go/getflashplayer ? This kind of thing is not easy to remember. Most of the time I assume that, version numbers being the same, especially in the case of commercial binaries, the packages will be the same regardless of where they come from. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] interview request for ppl who have Shockwave/.Firefox working
One other factor might be video hardware acceleration. Of those who have Shockwave working, are you also running VHA?? On 04/03/2011 06:41 PM ken wrote: For a long time now I've wanted to be able to watch videos. I've done the try this! and try that! method and it hasn't worked well. So I'm wondering if anyone running CentOS 5.5 has Shockwave on Firefox working. Currently it works for me with short videos-- up to two or three minutes long. However, when Shockwave is enabled, CPU usage jumps to 99%, sometimes even 100%! If I disable it CPU usage goes down to 1 - 5%. (For those who speak load avg, I've seen highs of 6 and 8... as opposed to the no Shockwave-now of 0.14 to 0.45.) So with the CPU already buried just by having Shockwave is enabled, if a video lasts longer than four minutes, gaps in the video's continuity begin to appear, and by ten minutes in the video is locked up altogether. What's everyone else's experience with this? Does anyone have a setup where they can view a 1.5-hour video normally... and maybe even work in their editor alongside it at the same time? If so, would you be open to explaining what hardware and software etc. you've got so that this works so well? Thanks. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] interview request for ppl who have Shockwave/.Firefox working
Robert Heller wrote: At Mon, 04 Apr 2011 09:39:04 -0400 CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org wrote: snip And yes, the 64-bit flash 'preview' plugin and yes, it plays flash videos just fine there. [*I* have no use for nVidia's drive -- I don't do 3D modeling or video games, etc.] Unfortunately, you *do* need nVidia's proprietary driver if you've got dual monitors, like a lot of places I've worked in the last few years. mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] interview request for ppl who have Shockwave/.Firefox working
At Mon, 4 Apr 2011 11:39:30 -0400 CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org wrote: Robert Heller wrote: At Mon, 04 Apr 2011 09:39:04 -0400 CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org wrote: snip And yes, the 64-bit flash 'preview' plugin and yes, it plays flash videos just fine there. [*I* have no use for nVidia's drive -- I don't do 3D modeling or video games, etc.] Unfortunately, you *do* need nVidia's proprietary driver if you've got dual monitors, like a lot of places I've worked in the last few years. I have just the one 17 VGA monitor. Don't have room for either a larger monitor or a second one. And I am not sure what I would do with a second monitor if I had one. mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos -- Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 / hel...@deepsoft.com Deepwoods Software-- http://www.deepsoft.com/ () ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] interview request for ppl who have Shockwave/.Firefox working
Robert Heller wrote: At Mon, 4 Apr 2011 11:39:30 -0400 CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org wrote: Robert Heller wrote: At Mon, 04 Apr 2011 09:39:04 -0400 CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org wrote: snip And yes, the 64-bit flash 'preview' plugin and yes, it plays flash videos just fine there. [*I* have no use for nVidia's drive -- I don't do 3D modeling or video games, etc.] Unfortunately, you *do* need nVidia's proprietary driver if you've got dual monitors, like a lot of places I've worked in the last few years. I have just the one 17 VGA monitor. Don't have room for either a larger monitor or a second one. And I am not sure what I would do with a second monitor if I had one. Wow - you haven't lived All my work-stations have dual monitors. If you regularly use a browser and a word processor or spreadsheet you will benefit. If you are trying to set up servers and compare between them, it is very useful too. Makes copy paste etc so much simpler for my little brain to deal with. YMMV mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos attachment: rkampen.vcf___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] interview request for ppl who have Shockwave/.Firefox working
Robert Heller wrote: At Mon, 4 Apr 2011 11:39:30 -0400 CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org wrote: Robert Heller wrote: At Mon, 04 Apr 2011 09:39:04 -0400 CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org wrote: snip And yes, the 64-bit flash 'preview' plugin and yes, it plays flash videos just fine there. [*I* have no use for nVidia's drive -- I don't do 3D modeling or video games, etc.] Unfortunately, you *do* need nVidia's proprietary driver if you've got dual monitors, like a lot of places I've worked in the last few years. I have just the one 17 VGA monitor. Don't have room for either a larger monitor or a second one. And I am not sure what I would do with a second monitor if I had one. Lessee, last place I worked, not sure about the one before that, and where I work now, almost everyone has dual monitors. It's the in thing. (We won't talk about my co-worker, who seems to remember fondly when he was in the NOC, with three? four? monitors) mark only has two eyeballs ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] interview request for ppl who have Shockwave/.Firefox working
At Mon, 04 Apr 2011 12:22:59 -0400 CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org wrote: Robert Heller wrote: At Mon, 4 Apr 2011 11:39:30 -0400 CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org wrote: Robert Heller wrote: At Mon, 04 Apr 2011 09:39:04 -0400 CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org wrote: snip And yes, the 64-bit flash 'preview' plugin and yes, it plays flash videos just fine there. [*I* have no use for nVidia's drive -- I don't do 3D modeling or video games, etc.] Unfortunately, you *do* need nVidia's proprietary driver if you've got dual monitors, like a lot of places I've worked in the last few years. I have just the one 17 VGA monitor. Don't have room for either a larger monitor or a second one. And I am not sure what I would do with a second monitor if I had one. Wow - you haven't lived All my work-stations have dual monitors. If you regularly use a browser and a word processor or spreadsheet you will benefit. I don't use word processors or spreadsheets. No loss there. I do use a keyboard-based text editor in an xterm window. If you are trying to set up servers and compare between them, it is very useful too. I have no trouble with multiple xterm windows (to different machines). I never maximize the xterm windows, so there is room for several on the screen. And I do have multiple 'virtual' screens (a feature of FVWM). Makes copy paste etc so much simpler for my little brain to deal with. YMMV mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos begin:vcard fn:Rob Kampen n:Kampen;Rob org:Team Torman Realty, LLC adr:;;13019 Water Point Blvd;Windermere;FL;34786;USA email;internet:rkam...@reaching-clients.com tel;work:407-876-4108 tel;fax:407-876-3591 tel;home:407-876-4854 tel;cell:407-341-3815 note:LCAM CPM Candidate url:www.robkampen.com version:2.1 end:vcard MIME-Version: 1.0 ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos -- Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 / hel...@deepsoft.com Deepwoods Software-- http://www.deepsoft.com/ () ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] interview request for ppl who have Shockwave/.Firefox working
Robert Heller wrote: At Mon, 04 Apr 2011 12:22:59 -0400 CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org wrote: snip I have no trouble with multiple xterm windows (to different machines). I never maximize the xterm windows, so there is room for several on the screen. And I do have multiple 'virtual' screens (a feature of FVWM). snip Yeah - folks seem to have forgotten the concept that screen real estate is *valuable*, and gone to the Everybody Always Wants To Maximize My Wonder!!!Full!!! Website!! Turkeys. Who don't understand the concept of a window mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] interview request for ppl who have Shockwave/.Firefox working
On 4/4/2011 12:22 PM, Rob Kampen wrote: Wow - you haven't lived All my work-stations have dual monitors. If you regularly use a browser and a word processor or spreadsheet you will benefit. If you are trying to set up servers and compare between them, it is very useful too. Makes copy paste etc so much simpler for my little brain to deal with. YMMV I had dual monitors for a while. Gave them up when I switched to a 22 widescreen. Now I can have two documents open side-by-side on the same monitor without feeling cramped. Also without the hassles that come with dual-monitor setups. -- Bowie ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] interview request for ppl who have Shockwave/.Firefox working
At Mon, 4 Apr 2011 12:37:06 -0400 CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org wrote: Robert Heller wrote: At Mon, 04 Apr 2011 12:22:59 -0400 CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org wrote: snip I have no trouble with multiple xterm windows (to different machines). I never maximize the xterm windows, so there is room for several on the screen. And I do have multiple 'virtual' screens (a feature of FVWM). snip Yeah - folks seem to have forgotten the concept that screen real estate is *valuable*, and gone to the Everybody Always Wants To Maximize My Wonder!!!Full!!! Website!! Turkeys. Who don't understand the concept of a window I only ever maximize FF, but only because my screen resolution is (only) 1024x768 and websites these days need at least 1024x768. I didn't used to do that (I ran FF at 800x600), but 'modern' websites don't look right (or in some cases don't even work) with such a 'small' window size. I *sometimes* view videos in full screen, but not as a default option (except for the DVD player profile I use for mplayer). mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos -- Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 / hel...@deepsoft.com Deepwoods Software-- http://www.deepsoft.com/ () ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] interview request for ppl who have Shockwave/.Firefox working
Where two screens really rock is where you have a remote desktop sort of session to a 2nd computer. one screen is one system, the other screen is the other. also for watching videos while doing other stuff, maximize the video on one screen, noodle on another. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] interview request for ppl who have Shockwave/.Firefox working
On Sunday 03 April 2011 18:41, ken wrote: For a long time now I've wanted to be able to watch videos. I've done the try this! and try that! method and it hasn't worked well. So I'm wondering if anyone running CentOS 5.5 has Shockwave on Firefox working. Are you perhaps confusing Shockwave and Flash? Most videos on the Web are in Flash format. Simply install flash-plugin, available on RPMForge, http://rpmrepo.org/RPMforge Regards, -- Yves Bellefeuille y...@storm.ca La Esperanta Civito ne rifuzas anticipe la kunlaboron de erarintoj, se ili konscias pri sia eraro. -- Heroldo Komunikas, n-ro 473. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] interview request for ppl who have Shockwave/.Firefox working
At Sun, 03 Apr 2011 18:41:35 -0400 CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org wrote: For a long time now I've wanted to be able to watch videos. I've done the try this! and try that! method and it hasn't worked well. So I'm wondering if anyone running CentOS 5.5 has Shockwave on Firefox working. Currently it works for me with short videos-- up to two or three minutes long. However, when Shockwave is enabled, CPU usage jumps to 99%, sometimes even 100%! If I disable it CPU usage goes down to 1 - 5%. (For those who speak load avg, I've seen highs of 6 and 8... as opposed to the no Shockwave-now of 0.14 to 0.45.) So with the CPU already buried just by having Shockwave is enabled, if a video lasts longer than four minutes, gaps in the video's continuity begin to appear, and by ten minutes in the video is locked up altogether. What's everyone else's experience with this? Does anyone have a setup where they can view a 1.5-hour video normally... and maybe even work in their editor alongside it at the same time? If so, would you be open to explaining what hardware and software etc. you've got so that this works so well? I am able to watch 1/2 hour TV shows with flash-plugin-10.2.152.27-release from Adobe's repo in Firefox (firefox-3.6.13-2.el5.centos), on my i686 IBM ThinkPad X31 laptop (which has 512Meg of memory and a 1700MHz, Pentium M processor), using CentOS 5.5. The CPU does get hot (the fan fires up sometimes). Oh, I use a *very* lightweight X11 setup: I don't use GNome or KDE or any sort of 'Desktop Manager' system at all. Just FVWM in MWM mode. Virtually NO 'eye candy' at all. My system boots to runlevel 3 and I fire up X11 from my login. I have made no attempt to watch longer videos with flash. I do watch 3-5 minute music videos all the time, but I use mplayer for those (even the FLV files I have downloaded from YouTube). Thanks. -- Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 / hel...@deepsoft.com Deepwoods Software-- http://www.deepsoft.com/ () ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] interview request for ppl who have Shockwave/.Firefox working
At Sun, 3 Apr 2011 20:06:51 -0400 CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org wrote: On Sunday 03 April 2011 18:41, ken wrote: For a long time now I've wanted to be able to watch videos. I've done the try this! and try that! method and it hasn't worked well. So I'm wondering if anyone running CentOS 5.5 has Shockwave on Firefox working. Are you perhaps confusing Shockwave and Flash? Most videos on the Web are in Flash format. Simply install flash-plugin, available on RPMForge, http://rpmrepo.org/RPMforge Or from Adobe's repo. Note: Adobe only has 32-bit flash player as their stable release, although the 64-bit version available as 'beta test', seems to be stable enough (works just fine on my 64-bit desktop). Regards, -- Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 / hel...@deepsoft.com Deepwoods Software-- http://www.deepsoft.com/ () ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] interview request for ppl who have Shockwave/.Firefox working
ken wrote: For a long time now I've wanted to be able to watch videos. I've done the try this! and try that! method and it hasn't worked well. So I'm wondering if anyone running CentOS 5.5 has Shockwave on Firefox working. Currently it works for me with short videos-- up to two or three minutes long. However, when Shockwave is enabled, CPU usage jumps to 99%, sometimes even 100%! If I disable it CPU usage goes down to 1 - 5%. (For those who speak load avg, I've seen highs of 6 and 8... as opposed to the no Shockwave-now of 0.14 to 0.45.) So with the CPU already buried just by having Shockwave is enabled, if a video lasts longer than four minutes, gaps in the video's continuity begin to appear, and by ten minutes in the video is locked up altogether. What's everyone else's experience with this? Does anyone have a setup where they can view a 1.5-hour video normally... and maybe even work in their editor alongside it at the same time? If so, would you be open to explaining what hardware and software etc. you've got so that this works so well? Thanks. Shockwave flash 10.1.r85 from adobe works okay on my CentOS 5.5 on kernel 2.6.18-194.32.1.el5.centos.plus with firefox 3.6.13 x86_64 version HTH attachment: rkampen.vcf___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
