Re: [CentOS] question centos stream 8 applying updates
El mar, 22 dic 2020 a las 19:46, Sergio Belkin () escribió: > > > El mar, 22 dic 2020 a las 18:54, Matthew Miller () > escribió: > >> On Tue, Dec 22, 2020 at 05:39:57PM -0300, Sergio Belkin wrote: >> > Edward, thanks for the reply, the tone has changed "if you don't like >> > CentOS Stream well, you know pay Red Hat". >> > "If you are using CentOS Linux 8 in a production environment, and are >> > concerned that CentOS Stream will not meet your needs, we encourage you >> to >> > contact Red Hat about options." >> > >> > source: https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/ >> >> >> Again, please see >> https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/faq-centos-stream-updates#Q10 >> >> The other options being addressed are not all "pay Red Hat". >> >> -- >> Matthew Miller >> >> Fedora Project Leader >> ___ >> CentOS mailing list >> CentOS@centos.org >> https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos >> > > > Let's see the CentOS Description: > «A *community project* for ecosystem developers who want to see what is > coming in the next version of RHEL and need to introduce changes that > enable their hardware or software. It also provides a place to develop > technologies and tools so they‘re ready for the next version of RHEL» > > Definitely, is not a CentOS replacement. Again, everything points to Red > Hat. I see that the focus is developer. I see no place for sysadmins... > > *Sorry I meant "CentOS Stream Description" -- -- Sergio Belkin LPIC-2 Certified - http://www.lpi.org ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] question centos stream 8 applying updates
El mar, 22 dic 2020 a las 18:54, Matthew Miller () escribió: > On Tue, Dec 22, 2020 at 05:39:57PM -0300, Sergio Belkin wrote: > > Edward, thanks for the reply, the tone has changed "if you don't like > > CentOS Stream well, you know pay Red Hat". > > "If you are using CentOS Linux 8 in a production environment, and are > > concerned that CentOS Stream will not meet your needs, we encourage you > to > > contact Red Hat about options." > > > > source: https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/ > > > Again, please see > https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/faq-centos-stream-updates#Q10 > > The other options being addressed are not all "pay Red Hat". > > -- > Matthew Miller > > Fedora Project Leader > ___ > CentOS mailing list > CentOS@centos.org > https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos > Let's see the CentOS Description: «A *community project* for ecosystem developers who want to see what is coming in the next version of RHEL and need to introduce changes that enable their hardware or software. It also provides a place to develop technologies and tools so they‘re ready for the next version of RHEL» Definitely, is not a CentOS replacement. Again, everything points to Red Hat. I see that the focus is developer. I see no place for sysadmins... -- -- Sergio Belkin LPIC-2 Certified - http://www.lpi.org ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] question centos stream 8 applying updates
On Tue, Dec 22, 2020 at 05:39:57PM -0300, Sergio Belkin wrote: > Edward, thanks for the reply, the tone has changed "if you don't like > CentOS Stream well, you know pay Red Hat". > "If you are using CentOS Linux 8 in a production environment, and are > concerned that CentOS Stream will not meet your needs, we encourage you to > contact Red Hat about options." > > source: https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/ Again, please see https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/faq-centos-stream-updates#Q10 The other options being addressed are not all "pay Red Hat". -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] question centos stream 8 applying updates
El dom, 20 dic 2020 a las 16:13, Matthew Miller () escribió: > On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 10:43:25AM -0300, Sergio Belkin wrote: > > I feel up to now the predominant tone of communications both fron CentOS > > and RH is as if CentOS **professional** users were stealing something to > > RH... > > Can you point me to where you are seeing this tone in Red Hat and CentOS > communications? Because what I see is basically the opposite: Red Hat and > CentOS saying that's not the motivation at all. > > -- > Matthew Miller > > Fedora Project Leader > ___ > CentOS mailing list > CentOS@centos.org > https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos > Edward, thanks for the reply, the tone has changed "if you don't like CentOS Stream well, you know pay Red Hat". "If you are using CentOS Linux 8 in a production environment, and are concerned that CentOS Stream will not meet your needs, we encourage you to contact Red Hat about options." source: https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/ Is the PR what introduced the doubt about the CentOS Stream reliability... I think that Red Hat is in its right to do with CentOS whatever it likes. However there was a CentOS EOL that Red Hat from one day to the next decided that it was not convenient to comply, wasn't it? I think that if Centos Stream is just good enough to use in production there is no need for Red Hat advertisements in CentOS announcements. The CentOS Community already knew that if it wanted guaranteed support and beyoind it could pay and get Red Hat subscriptions. At least there was a communication error. If I'm wrong, let me know. -- -- Sergio Belkin LPIC-2 Certified - http://www.lpi.org ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] question centos stream 8 applying updates
On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 10:43:25AM -0300, Sergio Belkin wrote: > I feel up to now the predominant tone of communications both fron CentOS > and RH is as if CentOS **professional** users were stealing something to > RH... Can you point me to where you are seeing this tone in Red Hat and CentOS communications? Because what I see is basically the opposite: Red Hat and CentOS saying that's not the motivation at all. -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] question centos stream 8 applying updates
El sáb, 19 dic 2020 a las 23:12, edward via CentOS () escribió: > > On 2020-12-19 14:33, Sergio Belkin wrote: > > In what moment "user" and "community" were replaced by "customers" in > > CentOS? > > > probably they want more of a overall professional ecosystem for both > rhel and centos > > CentOS@centos.org > https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos > So was it a commercial decision wrapped in techie buzz...? "Professional" does not necessarily mean people that are able or willing to pay for support. I feel up to now the predominant tone of communications both fron CentOS and RH is as if CentOS **professional** users were stealing something to RH... -- -- Sergio Belkin LPIC-2 Certified - http://www.lpi.org ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] question centos stream 8 applying updates
> On Dec 19, 2020, at 8:38 AM, edward wrote: > > > On 2020-12-19 19:05, Valeri Galtsev wrote: >> >>> On Dec 19, 2020, at 7:10 AM, edward via CentOS wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 2020-12-19 14:33, Sergio Belkin wrote: In what moment "user" and "community" were replaced by "customers" in CentOS? >>> >>> probably they want more of a overall professional ecosystem for both rhel >>> and centos >>> >>> since it appears ubuntu has quite a lead server marketshare compared to >>> centos and rhel >>> >>> ubuntu 47% >>> >>> centos 18% >>> >>> redhat 1.8% >>> >>> https://w3techs.com/technologies/history_details/os-linux >>> >> It was interesting to look at all UNIXes: >> >> https://w3techs.com/technologies/details/os-unix >> >> (they apparently put into that category Linuxes, BSD descendants, etc.). Of >> all UNIXes Linux covers 38.8%, whereas BSD only 0.5%. There, however, is >> 60.7 % of unknown UNIXes. I wonder whether my FreeBSD servers are counted as >> UNIXes at all, I did run OS fingerprinting against some randomly chosen, and >> they don’t disclose OS ;-) >> >> Valeri >>> ___ >>> CentOS mailing list >>> CentOS@centos.org >>> https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos > > with great features like bootable environments, zfs, dtrace,etc feel kinda > bad for solaris OS got less than 0.1% > What I was trying to say is: there are some UNIX-like systems which are used by really cautious sysadmins who set things up so that even system fingerprinting can not discover what system the server is running. Which covers over 60% of UNIX like systems mentioned on that website. I can not call them UNIXes, as many of them do not pay loyalties to be called UNIX. Incidentally, zfs and dtrace are available on FreeBSD… Just mentioning. Valeri ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] question centos stream 8 applying updates
On 2020-12-19 19:05, Valeri Galtsev wrote: On Dec 19, 2020, at 7:10 AM, edward via CentOS wrote: On 2020-12-19 14:33, Sergio Belkin wrote: In what moment "user" and "community" were replaced by "customers" in CentOS? probably they want more of a overall professional ecosystem for both rhel and centos since it appears ubuntu has quite a lead server marketshare compared to centos and rhel ubuntu 47% centos 18% redhat 1.8% https://w3techs.com/technologies/history_details/os-linux It was interesting to look at all UNIXes: https://w3techs.com/technologies/details/os-unix (they apparently put into that category Linuxes, BSD descendants, etc.). Of all UNIXes Linux covers 38.8%, whereas BSD only 0.5%. There, however, is 60.7 % of unknown UNIXes. I wonder whether my FreeBSD servers are counted as UNIXes at all, I did run OS fingerprinting against some randomly chosen, and they don’t disclose OS ;-) Valeri ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos with great features like bootable environments, zfs, dtrace,etc feel kinda bad for solaris OS got less than 0.1% ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] question centos stream 8 applying updates
> On Dec 19, 2020, at 7:10 AM, edward via CentOS wrote: > > > On 2020-12-19 14:33, Sergio Belkin wrote: >> In what moment "user" and "community" were replaced by "customers" in >> CentOS? > > > probably they want more of a overall professional ecosystem for both rhel > and centos > > since it appears ubuntu has quite a lead server marketshare compared to > centos and rhel > > ubuntu 47% > > centos 18% > > redhat 1.8% > > https://w3techs.com/technologies/history_details/os-linux > It was interesting to look at all UNIXes: https://w3techs.com/technologies/details/os-unix (they apparently put into that category Linuxes, BSD descendants, etc.). Of all UNIXes Linux covers 38.8%, whereas BSD only 0.5%. There, however, is 60.7 % of unknown UNIXes. I wonder whether my FreeBSD servers are counted as UNIXes at all, I did run OS fingerprinting against some randomly chosen, and they don’t disclose OS ;-) Valeri > ___ > CentOS mailing list > CentOS@centos.org > https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] question centos stream 8 applying updates
On 2020-12-19 14:33, Sergio Belkin wrote: In what moment "user" and "community" were replaced by "customers" in CentOS? probably they want more of a overall professional ecosystem for both rhel and centos since it appears ubuntu has quite a lead server marketshare compared to centos and rhel ubuntu 47% centos 18% redhat 1.8% https://w3techs.com/technologies/history_details/os-linux ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] question centos stream 8 applying updates
El vie, 11 dic 2020 a las 15:28, Matthew Miller () escribió: > > > > https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/centos-stream-is-continuous-delivery/ > > https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/how-rhel-is-made/ > > -- > Matthew Miller > > Fedora Project Leader > ___ > > In what moment "user" and "community" were replaced by "customers" in CentOS? -- -- Sergio Belkin LPIC-2 Certified - http://www.lpi.org ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] question centos stream 8 applying updates
Il 2020-12-12 15:54 Leon Fauster via CentOS ha scritto: EOL in 2024! https://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2020-December/352340.html https://centos.org/distro-faq/#q13-can-i-start-up-a-sig-that-will-maintain-centos-stream-8-after-rhel8-reaches-the-end-of-full-support https://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-devel/2020-December/075532.html Thank you so much. This is quite unfortunate. Let's see if/how well the version upgrade system to upgrade from Stream-8 to Stream-9 works. Regards. -- Danti Gionatan Supporto Tecnico Assyoma S.r.l. - www.assyoma.it email: g.da...@assyoma.it - i...@assyoma.it GPG public key ID: FF5F32A8 ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] question centos stream 8 applying updates
Am 12.12.20 um 13:40 schrieb Gionatan Danti: Il 2020-12-11 23:53 Pete Biggs ha scritto: Somewhere in amongst the vast number of posts, someone said that the release cadence for point releases was 6 months with the final release being 8.10 in 2024. After that RHEL 8 goes into maintenance mode and there will be no more content added to 8-stream (because it had reached the end of it's useful life as a pre point release distro). From what I can read here [1], the latest 8.10 release (due in 2024) will be supported for other 5 years, bringing RHEL 8 to the 10 years total support we know. So the question is: will Stream-8 follow the same support cycle? Or any Extended life cycle support patch to the RHEL 8.10 release will be considered private? This is a very important question and I sincerely hope someone can answer. Thanks. EOL in 2024! https://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2020-December/352340.html https://centos.org/distro-faq/#q13-can-i-start-up-a-sig-that-will-maintain-centos-stream-8-after-rhel8-reaches-the-end-of-full-support https://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-devel/2020-December/075532.html -- Leon ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] question centos stream 8 applying updates
Il 2020-12-11 23:53 Pete Biggs ha scritto: Somewhere in amongst the vast number of posts, someone said that the release cadence for point releases was 6 months with the final release being 8.10 in 2024. After that RHEL 8 goes into maintenance mode and there will be no more content added to 8-stream (because it had reached the end of it's useful life as a pre point release distro). From what I can read here [1], the latest 8.10 release (due in 2024) will be supported for other 5 years, bringing RHEL 8 to the 10 years total support we know. So the question is: will Stream-8 follow the same support cycle? Or any Extended life cycle support patch to the RHEL 8.10 release will be considered private? This is a very important question and I sincerely hope someone can answer. Thanks. [1] https://access.redhat.com/support/policy/updates/errata -- Danti Gionatan Supporto Tecnico Assyoma S.r.l. - www.assyoma.it email: g.da...@assyoma.it - i...@assyoma.it GPG public key ID: FF5F32A8 ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] question centos stream 8 applying updates
Am 11.12.20 um 23:53 schrieb Pete Biggs: On Fri, 2020-12-11 at 22:05 +0100, Gionatan Danti wrote: Il 2020-12-11 19:26 Walter H. ha scritto: with CentOS Stream there are only updates till 2024(!) not 2029 as it be expected ... Is that officially confirmed? If RHEL 8 is expected to have an 8.10 release sometime in the 2028-2029 timeframe, and if any updates should really hit Stream-8 before, the latter should have the same EOL date. Somewhere in amongst the vast number of posts, someone said that the release cadence for point releases was 6 months with the final release being 8.10 in 2024. After that RHEL 8 goes into maintenance mode and there will be no more content added to 8-stream (because it had reached the end of it's useful life as a pre point release distro). I think it's still not clear what exactly will be the fate of 8-stream after 2024. The implication is that 9-stream will be active by then and 8-stream will just disappear. In some ways it would be nice if it was frozen but kept, but it won't receive any bug/security fixes, so it may be deemed too "dangerous" to allow people access to it. I suppose it's natural home would be vault.centos.org, but we will have to see what RH think of that. "CentOS Stream 8 will be retired from build servers, community build systems, primary mirror sites (copies will remain on vault.centos.org), and other places within our ecosystem." https://centos.org/distro-faq/#q13-can-i-start-up-a-sig-that-will-maintain-centos-stream-8-after-rhel8-reaches-the-end-of-full-support -- Leon ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] question centos stream 8 applying updates
On Fri, 2020-12-11 at 22:05 +0100, Gionatan Danti wrote: > Il 2020-12-11 19:26 Walter H. ha scritto: > > with CentOS Stream there are only updates till 2024(!) not 2029 as it > > be expected ... > > Is that officially confirmed? If RHEL 8 is expected to have an 8.10 > release sometime in the 2028-2029 timeframe, and if any updates should > really hit Stream-8 before, the latter should have the same EOL date. > Somewhere in amongst the vast number of posts, someone said that the release cadence for point releases was 6 months with the final release being 8.10 in 2024. After that RHEL 8 goes into maintenance mode and there will be no more content added to 8-stream (because it had reached the end of it's useful life as a pre point release distro). I think it's still not clear what exactly will be the fate of 8-stream after 2024. The implication is that 9-stream will be active by then and 8-stream will just disappear. In some ways it would be nice if it was frozen but kept, but it won't receive any bug/security fixes, so it may be deemed too "dangerous" to allow people access to it. I suppose it's natural home would be vault.centos.org, but we will have to see what RH think of that. P. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] question centos stream 8 applying updates
Il 2020-12-11 19:26 Walter H. ha scritto: with CentOS Stream there are only updates till 2024(!) not 2029 as it be expected ... Is that officially confirmed? If RHEL 8 is expected to have an 8.10 release sometime in the 2028-2029 timeframe, and if any updates should really hit Stream-8 before, the latter should have the same EOL date. What I am missing? Thanks. -- Danti Gionatan Supporto Tecnico Assyoma S.r.l. - www.assyoma.it email: g.da...@assyoma.it - i...@assyoma.it GPG public key ID: FF5F32A8 ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] question centos stream 8 applying updates
On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 10:19:56AM -0800, Gordon Messmer wrote: > On 12/10/20 2:53 PM, edward via CentOS wrote: > >after reading some info on centos stream is a rolling release. > >i'm wondering applying > > It's not a "rolling release" in the most commonly used sense. There > just isn't a minor number for releases. CentOS Stream 8 will always > be CentOS Stream 8, and never 8.1 or 8.2, etc. Just one ten-year > long release. At any given point in time, a fully updated system > should be backward-compatible with any applications that have run > earlier in the release cycle. Yeah, the words "rolling release" ended up in the announcement without anyone really catching that it's going to have strong implications of something that _wasn't_ meant. It's hard to make an announcement like this without having some phrasing that ends up causing confusion of some sort. This one is definitely costing us in extra confusion, but please believe that there's no hidden messaging here. We're just all trying to figure out how to best communicate the concepts. I hope the blog posts from Stef and Brendan on the CentOS blog today help clear things up! https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/centos-stream-is-continuous-delivery/ https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/how-rhel-is-made/ -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] question centos stream 8 applying updates
On 11.12.2020 19:19, Gordon Messmer wrote: On 12/10/20 2:53 PM, edward via CentOS wrote: after reading some info on centos stream is a rolling release. i'm wondering applying It's not a "rolling release" in the most commonly used sense. There just isn't a minor number for releases. CentOS Stream 8 will always be CentOS Stream 8, and never 8.1 or 8.2, etc. Just one ten-year long release. At any given point in time, a fully updated system should be backward-compatible with any applications that have run earlier in the release cycle. with CentOS Stream there are only updates till 2024(!) not 2029 as it be expected ... ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] question centos stream 8 applying updates
On 12/11/20 10:19 AM, Gordon Messmer wrote: Just one ten-year long release. My mistake: Stream releases are five-year long releases (RHEL's "full" support period). ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] question centos stream 8 applying updates
On 12/10/20 2:53 PM, edward via CentOS wrote: after reading some info on centos stream is a rolling release. i'm wondering applying It's not a "rolling release" in the most commonly used sense. There just isn't a minor number for releases. CentOS Stream 8 will always be CentOS Stream 8, and never 8.1 or 8.2, etc. Just one ten-year long release. At any given point in time, a fully updated system should be backward-compatible with any applications that have run earlier in the release cycle. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
