Re: [CentOS-docs] Re: Create page about rebuilding SRPMS and preparing RPM environment
On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 13:12, Ralph Angenendt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Done. Thanks a bunch. I'm quite busy until next Monday, but after that I should have enough time to get this started. I will let the list know. Thanks, Filipe ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Re: Create page about rebuilding SRPMS and preparing RPM environment
Ralph Angenendt wrote: > Na. Let me create those two pages. This thread really has gone on too > long. Done. Cheers, Ralph pgph5kLMwDaDk.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Re: Create page about rebuilding SRPMS and preparing RPM environment
Filipe Brandenburger wrote: > I'm sorry if I'm not answering all e-mails on this thread, I really > thought this would be a simple issue and would not create a lengthy > thread like this one. So did I >:) > Ok, if this is still the general opinion please let me know. I would > rather work on the Wiki itself directly, since then it's easier to > have others collaborate and the markup will be finished when the > content is finished. If you wish, it could be in a "sandbox" and not > directly on the definitive URL. Na. Let me create those two pages. This thread really has gone on too long. Cheers, Ralph pgptRnny5fx8N.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Re: Create page about rebuilding SRPMS and preparing RPM environment
Hi, I'm sorry if I'm not answering all e-mails on this thread, I really thought this would be a simple issue and would not create a lengthy thread like this one. On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 12:01, Alan Bartlett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On the 19 July the general > opinion was that Filipe should go ahead and draft out his idea. Ok, if this is still the general opinion please let me know. I would rather work on the Wiki itself directly, since then it's easier to have others collaborate and the markup will be finished when the content is finished. If you wish, it could be in a "sandbox" and not directly on the definitive URL. > I suggested > that if needs be, I would help him with some editing of his work. Filipe > (from my reading of his response) was agreeable to that and was still > enthusiastic in helping. Yes, I would love to have others collaborate (with fixing English and language, adding new subtopics, helping make it clear). I mean, that's the point of Wiki. > I have been waiting to see the initial draft. It > turns out that he (Filipe) does not have anywhere to do this work. I could do a .txt and send it to the mailing list, but as I said, I think working on the Wiki would be more productive. I actually think it would be productive to give more people write access to this page, since there are others who certainly are more knowledgeable than me in this area, and I would certainly invite collaboration. I volunteered to start it, I could do it all by myself and enhance it from others' feedback, but I believe it would certainly benefit from others in this list being able to edit it directly. My offer is certainly still up. However, if someone else wants to step up and start a page with this content, I would certainly not mind, and I would certainly contribute ideas (using this list?) and reviewing it. Thanks, Filipe ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Re: Create page about rebuilding SRPMS and preparing RPM environment
There sure seems to be a lot of mis-understood/mis-interpreted/missed meaning going around on this issue. It seems a bit heated as a general rule (in a disturbingly odd polite kinda way)... To me it boils down to this: 1. Someone is committing to make an attempt to expand/consolodate/fleshout/whatever some info that many people on the forums ask about 2. That person is willing to show the page info for careful scrutiny 3. Anything that person does can be undone and put back if you want to (or corrected or whatever) 4. Give the change a chance and reject after the work is complete It seems that a person willing to contribute *now* will likely be contribute in the future *unless* that will is killed *now* Everyone take a deep breath... step back... and relax... pjwelsh ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Re: Create page about rebuilding SRPMS and preparing RPM environment
On 21/07/2008, Akemi Yagi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 2:27 PM, Filipe Brandenburger > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Please Ralph, > > > > Could you create pages for me to create this content? > > > > I would suggest those names, but feel free to change them: > > 1) http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/RebuildSrpm > > 2) http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/SetupRpmBuildEnvironment > > > > My WikiUserName is FilipeBrandenburger. > > > > Thanks, > > Filipe > > > I'm confused. Ralph, from what I read in all your responses so far, > you seem to be in favour of having this page written. Or am I > mistaken? > > The thread has been getting too long. It is about just one Wiki page. > No big deal to me. Let's look at what is written and continue the > discussion if that is necessary. > > This type of reaction (the whole thread) would scare other people away > who are thinking of contributing their time to write an article. They > may fear that their proposal triggers yet another 40-ish thread and > their offer gets blown away. We are even talking about opening up the > CentOS Wiki. I cannot envision how that is ever possible if a simple > request like that does not see an end 10 days after the original > inquiry. I would agree with what Akemi writes above. On the 19 July the general opinion was that Filipe should go ahead and draft out his idea. I suggested that if needs be, I would help him with some editing of his work. Filipe (from my reading of his response) was agreeable to that and was still enthusiastic in helping. I have been waiting to see the initial draft. It turns out that he (Filipe) does not have anywhere to do this work. Please correct this oversight, Ralph. Alan. ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Re: Create page about rebuilding SRPMS and preparing RPM environment
On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 2:27 PM, Filipe Brandenburger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Please Ralph, > > Could you create pages for me to create this content? > > I would suggest those names, but feel free to change them: > 1) http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/RebuildSrpm > 2) http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/SetupRpmBuildEnvironment > > My WikiUserName is FilipeBrandenburger. > > Thanks, > Filipe I'm confused. Ralph, from what I read in all your responses so far, you seem to be in favour of having this page written. Or am I mistaken? The thread has been getting too long. It is about just one Wiki page. No big deal to me. Let's look at what is written and continue the discussion if that is necessary. This type of reaction (the whole thread) would scare other people away who are thinking of contributing their time to write an article. They may fear that their proposal triggers yet another 40-ish thread and their offer gets blown away. We are even talking about opening up the CentOS Wiki. I cannot envision how that is ever possible if a simple request like that does not see an end 10 days after the original inquiry. I am confused. Akemi ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Re: Create page about rebuilding SRPMS and preparing RPM environment
Alan Bartlett wrote: > Ralph, > > Do you normally respond in a bottom-up fashion? No. > On 21/07/2008, Ralph Angenendt > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > wrote: > > Alan Bartlett wrote: >>> Have you fully researched what currently is present in the WIki? >>> >> http://wiki.centos.org/TipsAndTricks/YumAndRPM#head-d2b0e7b7f3943ba0f8d08f9cfa46e821ba74aff4 >> >> Well, hints and tips for building rpms/rebuilding srpms are all over the >> wiki, > > Which is what I wanted to highlight by quoting that, above, as another > example. Yes. And now there is someone who wants to expand on that and make those short snippets into a somewhat more elaborated page (at least that is how I take the offer to rewrite those pages and/or create those pages). > but that is not what I call "well documented". > I most certainly have not used the phrase "well documented". Your quoting makes it look like you did. But no, *I* used the phrase. > Why do you put it in quotation marks in a response to me? This is a mailing list, would I have responded to you the list wouldn't have gotten the mail. And your mail was the one I saw most fitting to make that remark - which could have been into a response to another mail also. And here in this case the quotation marks mark direct speech. > All that does is imply (to a casual reader or one who does not bother > to review everything in this conversational thread) that you are > quoting my words - which you are not. As I have said before the > English language is very precise if used correctly. Problems will > occur with its misuse. >> A centralized point where anything else which needs explanations on >> doing so can link to is something we are really missing (IMNSHO). > > Your last sentence above, once the intended logic is extracted from > it, is something I would agree with. Perhaps you will kindly expand on > what it is you intend by the "not so" (NS) in the parenthesised > IMNSHO? We have many parts on the wiki where it would be wise to extract some content and put it into it's own context or rather page. This is one of the examples where it can be seen. Keeping something as central as rpm rebuilding in one place and link to that will do the documentation on the wiki good. Ralph pgpzb10coJfKi.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Re: Create page about rebuilding SRPMS and preparing RPM environment
Ralph, Do you normally respond in a bottom-up fashion? On 21/07/2008, Ralph Angenendt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: > > Alan Bartlett wrote: > > On 18/07/2008, Filipe Brandenburger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Without trying to start another heated discussion, are we going to > > > create a specific page on creating a building infrastructure for RPMs > > > and on how to rebuild a SRPM? My original e-mail from last week > > > follows. Please let me know if you want me to contribute. > > > > > > > > Have you fully researched what currently is present in the WIki? > > > http://wiki.centos.org/TipsAndTricks/YumAndRPM#head-d2b0e7b7f3943ba0f8d08f9cfa46e821ba74aff4 > > > Well, hints and tips for building rpms/rebuilding srpms are all over the > wiki, Which is what I wanted to highlight by quoting that, above, as another example. but that is not what I call "well documented". I most certainly have not used the phrase "well documented". Why do you put it in quotation marks in a response to me? All that does is imply (to a casual reader or one who does not bother to review everything in this conversational thread) that you are quoting my words - which you are not. As I have said before the English language is very precise if used correctly. Problems will occur with its misuse. A centralized point > where anything else which needs explanations on doing so can link to is > something we are really missing (IMNSHO). Your last sentence above, once the intended logic is extracted from it, is something I would agree with. Perhaps you will kindly expand on what it is you intend by the "not so" (NS) in the parenthesised IMNSHO? Alan. ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Re: Create page about rebuilding SRPMS and preparing RPM environment
Ralph,
On 21/07/2008, Ralph Angenendt
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
wrote:
>
> Alan Bartlett wrote:
> > The second reference you have quoted actually details how to obtain the
> > Kernel Sources and set up the build tree in a consistent fashion for
> > subsequent usage (covered in two other articles).
>
> And you cannot see the problem there?
The only problem *here* is that you misunderstand what I wrote (which you
quote, above).
So it is already there - in three
> different articles
Sorry Ralph, you are wrong. I said the above to point out that the article
Fillipe quoted (erroneously) in the following:
"to set up your
> environment to build RPMs and how to rebuild RPMs. This content today
> exists here:
>
http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/I_need_the_Kernel_Source#head-a8dae925eec15786df9f6f8c918eff16bf67be0d
"
is referred to by two other articles in that How To sub-section.
- and has to be changed *everywhere* if some small
> aspect of rpm building changes.
Once what I have written is understood, your preceding comment is seen to be
quite incorrect.
Having to change that in *one* place and let all other places link to
> that is a much cleaner approach.
That is *exactly* what we do . . . and I cannot think of anything cleaner
than:
$ mkdir -p ~/rpmbuild/{BUILD,RPMS,SOURCES,SPECS,SRPMS}
$ echo "%_topdir %(echo $HOME)rpmbuild" > ~/.rpmmacros
>> Basically I think that pointers to the outside are not that good
> >> because they not necessarily contain CentOS specific information.
> >
> > The main link that Akemi and I currently have in Kernel Sources and
> Custom
> > Kernel is to the (maintained) CentOS specific Owl River page (
> > http://www.owlriver.com/tips/non-root/). The other link, in the Custom
> > Kernel article, (http://howtoforge.com/kernel_compilation_centos/) is
> > mentioned to strongly dissuade its use.
>
> Still: People tend to go to the CentOS wiki for finding information (or
> they are pointed to it). And I'd like to have information like that
> available *in* the wiki where more than one person can change it should
> the need arise.
Perhaps there is an error on my part by using the expression "main link"
when I should have said "main references" - for that is what they are,
references. These references can be removed *without* any loss of
information, etc. For this error, I apologise.
The other problem is that you seem to have ignored the rest of my message
dated 19 July - that neither attacked any person *or* idea - or the second
one of the same date. The English language is very precise when it is used
correctly. Problems do arise when it is misused or misunderstood.
Please review your reaction and response.
Alan.
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Re: Create page about rebuilding SRPMS and preparing RPM environment
R P Herrold wrote: > On Sat, 19 Jul 2008, Marcus Moeller wrote: > >> Dear Russ. > >>> I wonder what in the world, which is material, you think is ** not ** >>> covereed between the Ed Bailey, and the Eric Foster-Johnson, the >>> GuruLabs resources (each down those links). > >> I am speaking about the CentOS Wiki and nothing more. I think pages >> like the Yum and RPM page should cover aspects of handling both tools >> and the build process should be described on a seperate page and linked >> from there. > > My question stands unanswered: 'what in the world, which is material, > you think is ** not ** covered' presently? > > Adding yet another secondary source, frankly written by people who are > NOT and have not been active in the builder, nor the RPM communities, > does not add light. Your opinion. Having stuff like that spluttered all over the wiki in pages which clearly don't have anything to do with rpm building doesn't help either. > I don't see an improvement for the CentOS brand by simply increasing > quantity. Centralized point of documentation. Ralph pgplo50ACDdwu.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Re: Create page about rebuilding SRPMS and preparing RPM environment
Alan Bartlett wrote: > On 18/07/2008, Filipe Brandenburger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Without trying to start another heated discussion, are we going to > > create a specific page on creating a building infrastructure for RPMs > > and on how to rebuild a SRPM? My original e-mail from last week > > follows. Please let me know if you want me to contribute. > > > > > Have you fully researched what currently is present in the WIki? > http://wiki.centos.org/TipsAndTricks/YumAndRPM#head-d2b0e7b7f3943ba0f8d08f9cfa46e821ba74aff4 Well, hints and tips for building rpms/rebuilding srpms are all over the wiki, but that is not what I call "well documented". A centralized point where anything else which needs explanations on doing so can link to is something we are really missing (IMNSHO). Ralph pgpSk2Ev09kxx.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Re: Create page about rebuilding SRPMS and preparing RPM environment
R P Herrold wrote: > On Fri, 18 Jul 2008, Marcus Moeller wrote: > >> I would personally welcome such a Documentation (if it's maintained, >> of course) as I agree with you if you are saying that there is no >> howto available covering nearly all aspects of the RPM build process. > > I wonder what in the world, which is material, you think is ** not ** > covereed between the Ed Bailey, and the Eric Foster-Johnson, the GuruLabs > resources (each down those links). > > I can (and did) rattle off the un-covered dark corners from years of > being in the space. When prompted on a new area of material interest, I > prepare a writeup, and link it in. And maintain it thereafter. That's exactly what he wants to do, as that area is not really covered on the wiki (yes, sure, the the stuff above has to be pointed to in that article). But other than you he does not want to put it somewhere and "link it in", he wants to put it on the wiki so it can be found *there* if someone skims through the link pages of the wiki (or does a search on the wiki). I have no idea why people here think that that is the wrong concept. Ralph pgpEJrJvcb7Dp.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Re: Create page about rebuilding SRPMS and preparing RPM environment
Alan Bartlett wrote: > The second reference you have quoted actually details how to obtain the > Kernel Sources and set up the build tree in a consistent fashion for > subsequent usage (covered in two other articles). And you cannot see the problem there? So it is already there - in three different articles - and has to be changed *everywhere* if some small aspect of rpm building changes. Having to change that in *one* place and let all other places link to that is a much cleaner approach. >> Basically I think that pointers to the outside are not that good >> because they not necessarily contain CentOS specific information. > > > The main link that Akemi and I currently have in Kernel Sources and Custom > Kernel is to the (maintained) CentOS specific Owl River page ( > http://www.owlriver.com/tips/non-root/). The other link, in the Custom > Kernel article, (http://howtoforge.com/kernel_compilation_centos/) is > mentioned to strongly dissuade its use. Still: People tend to go to the CentOS wiki for finding information (or they are pointed to it). And I'd like to have information like that available *in* the wiki where more than one person can change it should the need arise. Ralph pgpUXG99mIdR6.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Access to Wiki Pages
Ralph Angenendt wrote: > Eh, it should. But you are right (see the spanish pages, it works > there). > > Must be some configuration option in the plugin. Yes. Now it does - try again >:) Cheers, Ralph pgpyShdkvk5Qu.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Access to Wiki Pages
Marcus Moeller wrote: > Dear Ralph. > > > You *need* to keep the original names. If our wiki finds a page in de/ > > That's how it did it actually. > > > space (or es/ for what it's worth) and the page isn't there, it > > automatically redirects to the english page. > > I could not reproduce this behavior. E.g. if I open a not (yet) > existing page like: > > http://wiki.centos.org/de/TipsAndTricks/ResizeExt3 > > it does not automatically redirect to the English one. Same if you > link to a page like this. Eh, it should. But you are right (see the spanish pages, it works there). Must be some configuration option in the plugin. Let me look. Ralph pgpCpYuXD5ub6.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
