RE: [CentOS-docs] Opening of the wiki Part III(?) ...
CentOS is an Enterprise-class Linux Distribution derived from sources freely provided to the public by a prominent North American Enterprise Linux vendor. ... 'I don't think that replacing 'a prominent North American Enterprise Linux vendor' in the above phrase with RH is allowed as it may lead to confusion about relationships between RH and CentOS. JohnStanley Writes: Has anyone consulted on what if any legal actions or problems would come up if this was done? In other words does The CentOS Project deam to consult the legal actions that can be taken from doing this and how it could hurt the CentOS Project. Just a currious opinion... ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Opening of the wiki Part III(?) ...
Dear John. Has anyone consulted on what if any legal actions or problems would come up if this was done? In other words does The CentOS Project deam to consult the legal actions that can be taken from doing this and how it could hurt the CentOS Project. I don't think that this is really necessary at the moment as long as we take care of the trademark guidelines. The relationships between RedHat and CentOS are getting more friendlier these days. Also note that RedHat is able to change the guidelines at any time, so who knows what tomorrow might bring. Best Regards Marcus ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Opening of the wiki Part III(?) ...
On 04/11/2008, Marcus Moeller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip RedHat and CentOS are getting more friendlier these days. Also note that RedHat is able to change the guidelines at any time, so snip Just a small point to note Marcus, the name is Red Hat (two words) not one . . . Alan. ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Opening of the wiki Part III(?) ...
2008/11/4 Alan Bartlett [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 04/11/2008, Marcus Moeller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip RedHat and CentOS are getting more friendlier these days. Also note that RedHat is able to change the guidelines at any time, so snip Just a small point to note Marcus, the name is Red Hat (two words) not one . . . You are right Alan ;) Marcus ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Opening of the wiki Part III(?) ...
Marcus Moeller wrote:
Good Evening.
...
Courtesy and to have something within the centos space to point to.
Plus: Finding the manuals on upstream *all in one place* (like
clustermanagement, virtualization and so on) isn't that easy.
I personally welcome that the docs are mirrored on CentOS.org. Maybe
we could spend some more time to de-brand them completly.
I don't think that's possible looking at the notice at the bottom of the
documentation:
/---
Note: This documentation is provided {and copyrighted} by Red Hat®, Inc.
and is released via the Open Publication License. The copyright holder
has added the further requirement that Distribution of substantively
modified versions of this document is prohibited without the explicit
permission of the copyright holder. The CentOS project redistributes
these original works (in their unmodified form) as a reference for
CentOS-5 because CentOS-5 is built from publicly available, open source
SRPMS. The documentation is unmodified to be compliant with upstream
distribution policy. Neither CentOS-5 nor the CentOS Project are in any
way affiliated with or sponsored by Red Hat®, Inc.
---/
One more thing - I'm wondering about the continued use of the prominent
North American Enterprise Linux vendor phrase that appears on the
website. Presumably this dates back to a time when Red Hat was less
receptive to CentOS but that has changed now? Is this something that
could/should be dropped now relations are friendlier?
You may want to take a look at the Trademark Guidelines, Ch.A. Use of
the Brand ...
The only way to obtain permissions to use the RH's trademark is by
entering into a written license agreement with RH Inc. ... Absolutely
no exeptions.
But maybe we could just ask for it.
I don't think it's about using RH's trademark, but simply referring to
them by name (who they are) rather than by some cryptic phrase for fear
of infringing on their trademark. I'm sure this has some history that
dates back to a time when Red Hat were less enthusiastic about community
rebuilds of their product than they are now. My point was simply that if
times have moved on then maybe it's time the language used to describe
the upstream vendor should move on too?
For example, take a look at the text used on the CentOS home page:
http://www.centos.org/
/---
*CentOS Overview*
CentOS is an Enterprise-class Linux Distribution derived from sources
freely provided to the public by a prominent North American Enterprise
Linux vendor.
---/
The homepage and About page are littered with references to a prominent
North American Enterprise Linux vendor and upstream, whilst also
containing many links to Red Hat's servers, yet fail to directly mention
Red Hat anywhere by name. I was under the impression that the
relationship was somewhat warmer than that now??
___
CentOS-docs mailing list
CentOS-docs@centos.org
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Opening of the wiki Part III(?) ...
On Mon, 3 Nov 2008, Marcus Moeller wrote: North American Enterprise Linux vendor phrase that appears on the website. Presumably this dates back to a time when Red Hat was less receptive to CentOS but that has changed now? Is this something that could/should be dropped now relations are friendlier? You may want to take a look at the Trademark Guidelines, Ch.A. Use of the Brand ... The only way to obtain permissions to use the RH's trademark is by entering into a written license agreement with RH Inc. ... Absolutely no exeptions. But maybe we could just ask for it. It's not because Red Hat is a trademark that you can not reference Red Hat by name. We have been in this discussion before. You don't need Red Hat's approval to reference them. There are things you have to avoid, like not pretend to be Red Hat, or speak in the name of Red Hat, or imply Red Hat is endorsing something. I guess the easiest to avoid it is mentioning that Red Hat is a trademark owned by Red Hat inc. -- -- dag wieers, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://dag.wieers.com/ -- [Any errors in spelling, tact or fact are transmission errors] ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Opening of the wiki Part III(?) ...
Ned Slider wrote: Having given this much thought (mostly around my available free time), if it's not too late I'd also like to also raise my hand and in so doing give this thread a little bump. Good, let us get this on the way then (I'm sorry, I'm not really available on weekends at the moment so things on a slightly larger scale take a while). Also, whilst undergoing this process, would it also be a good time to request and/or formalize a documentation SIG as there doesn't appear to be one at present. Presumably those who have raised their hands would be obvious candidates for such a SIG. Ummm. I thought this was it? Or please rephrase what you mean by documentation SIG ... Cheers, Ralph pgpUD5drJcNdM.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Opening of the wiki Part III(?) ...
On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 8:54 AM, Ralph Angenendt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ned Slider wrote: Also, whilst undergoing this process, would it also be a good time to request and/or formalize a documentation SIG as there doesn't appear to be one at present. Presumably those who have raised their hands would be obvious candidates for such a SIG. Ummm. I thought this was it? Or please rephrase what you mean by documentation SIG ... Well, it is listed under Future SIGs: http://wiki.centos.org/SpecialInterestGroup Akemi ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Opening of the wiki Part III(?) ...
Akemi Yagi wrote: On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 8:54 AM, Ralph Angenendt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ned Slider wrote: Also, whilst undergoing this process, would it also be a good time to request and/or formalize a documentation SIG as there doesn't appear to be one at present. Presumably those who have raised their hands would be obvious candidates for such a SIG. Ummm. I thought this was it? Or please rephrase what you mean by documentation SIG ... Well, it is listed under Future SIGs: http://wiki.centos.org/SpecialInterestGroup Akemi Yes, that's all I meant :-) ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Opening of the wiki Part III(?) ...
Ralph Angenendt wrote: And even more important: Who wanted to be on the Editorial Team? Being on it means that you are supposed to subscribe to *all* pages on the wiki (meaning that you'll get a changelog diff for all changed pages via mail). And it means that you should at least skim through those diffs to see if there is a violation of the wiki guidelines (or if some spammer still does his spamruns manually). So please raise your hands *NOW*. Anything else I missed? Cheers, Ralph Having given this much thought (mostly around my available free time), if it's not too late I'd also like to also raise my hand and in so doing give this thread a little bump. Also, whilst undergoing this process, would it also be a good time to request and/or formalize a documentation SIG as there doesn't appear to be one at present. Presumably those who have raised their hands would be obvious candidates for such a SIG. Ned ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Opening of the wiki Part III(?) ...
Tim Verhoeven wrote: n Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 1:22 PM, Ralph Angenendt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: a) I have changed the account creation page: http://wiki-m.centos.org/UserPreferences. Please view that page while logged out of wiki-m. Looks good. b) While doing so I have changed the Guidelines page for the wiki. Please review that page and add to the Guidelines concerning Wiki content part: http://wiki-m.centos.org/HowToContribute/EditingCentOSWiki I went over it and don't have anything to add at the moment, but I will do so when I think of something. Okay, Russ did some changes to that which explain a bit more *why* we want people to adhere to those standards - but is everybody okay with what is in there, the UserPreferences page and the idea in general? If not, I'd like to start that over the next weekend. Plus: I put the First Time stuff on top of the user preferences page. So already existing users might be a tad annoyed by that, but first time users will see it more clearly. Cheers, Ralph pgpDAL0Mtp4dl.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Opening of the wiki Part III(?) ...
Ralph Angenendt wrote: Okay, Russ did some changes to that which explain a bit more *why* we want people to adhere to those standards And I added some stuff about conflict resolution. Cheers, Ralph pgpjSf6PsBtP5.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Opening of the wiki Part III(?) ...
Tim Verhoeven wrote: Sounds like a very good idea to remove the Frontpage from the general EditGroup. Are there maybe any other pages we should remove from general editing ? No idea. Probably the guidelines page :) Cheers, Ralph pgpDlTI2eH7kY.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Opening of the wiki Part III(?) ...
Ralph Angenendt wrote: a) I have changed the account creation page: http://wiki-m.centos.org/UserPreferences. Please view that page while logged out of wiki-m. Yes, I know that the attachment is missing (the attention sign). This will work on http://wiki.centos.org/. Cheers, Ralph pgpEgx50IIZWT.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Opening of the wiki Part III(?) ...
On 06/10/2008, Ralph Angenendt [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... which will hopefully be the last part. Sorry that it took that long, but I didn't have too much time on my hands over the last two months or so. snip And even more important: Who wanted to be on the Editorial Team? Being on it means that you are supposed to subscribe to *all* pages on the wiki (meaning that you'll get a changelog diff for all changed pages via mail). And it means that you should at least skim through those diffs to see if there is a violation of the wiki guidelines (or if some spammer still does his spamruns manually). So please raise your hands *NOW*. Hand re-raised. (By this pedantic Englishman. There's many a spelling punctuation error in existence that I could correct when passing by a page . . . :-D ) My referees/application supporters: Akemi Yagi (toracat) and Phil Perry (Ned Slider). Alan. ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Opening of the wiki Part III(?) ...
On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 4:36 AM, Tim Verhoeven [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: n Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 1:22 PM, Ralph Angenendt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: b) While doing so I have changed the Guidelines page for the wiki. Please review that page and add to the Guidelines concerning Wiki content part: http://wiki-m.centos.org/HowToContribute/EditingCentOSWiki Perhaps mention that the contents are being monitored and might be changed/modified by members of the Editorial Team if needed ? Of this is not necessary because everyone with the edit access can do so? And even more important: Who wanted to be on the Editorial Team? Being on it means that you are supposed to subscribe to *all* pages on the wiki (meaning that you'll get a changelog diff for all changed pages via mail). And it means that you should at least skim through those diffs to see if there is a violation of the wiki guidelines (or if some spammer still does his spamruns manually). So please raise your hands *NOW*. Hand raised. (P.S. I'm using this regex .* for the list of subscribed pages). Another hand raised. Akemi ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Opening of the wiki Part III(?) ...
Akemi Yagi wrote: n Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 1:22 PM, Ralph Angenendt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: b) While doing so I have changed the Guidelines page for the wiki. Please review that page and add to the Guidelines concerning Wiki content part: http://wiki-m.centos.org/HowToContribute/EditingCentOSWiki Perhaps mention that the contents are being monitored and might be changed/modified by members of the Editorial Team if needed ? Of this is not necessary because everyone with the edit access can do so? The part everyone with access can is one of the reasons for opening up the wiki, so I think that doesn't really need to be mentioned. What do others think? Ralph pgp0UNlGbmpdB.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Opening of the wiki Part III(?) ...
On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 7:51 AM, Ralph Angenendt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Akemi Yagi wrote: n Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 1:22 PM, Ralph Angenendt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: b) While doing so I have changed the Guidelines page for the wiki. Please review that page and add to the Guidelines concerning Wiki content part: http://wiki-m.centos.org/HowToContribute/EditingCentOSWiki Perhaps mention that the contents are being monitored and might be changed/modified by members of the Editorial Team if needed ? Of this is not necessary because everyone with the edit access can do so? The part everyone with access can is one of the reasons for opening up the wiki, so I think that doesn't really need to be mentioned. What do others think? One thing about this is when there is a dispute between/among contributors. How would we settle the case? Who would make the final decision? The dispute can happen within the Editorial Team as well. Akemi ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Opening of the wiki Part III(?) ...
And even more important: Who wanted to be on the Editorial Team? Being on it means that you are supposed to subscribe to *all* pages on the wiki (meaning that you'll get a changelog diff for all changed pages via mail). And it means that you should at least skim through those diffs to see if there is a violation of the wiki guidelines (or if some spammer still does his spamruns manually). So please raise your hands *NOW*. I would like to offer my help, too. I am already tracking wiki changes atm. Best Regards Marcus ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Opening of the wiki Part III(?) ...
Akemi Yagi wrote: One thing about this is when there is a dispute between/among contributors. How would we settle the case? Who would make the final decision? The dispute can happen within the Editorial Team as well. Shoot the offenders. I think this should be a) either played out here or b) tried to be settled via common sense. Cheers, Ralph pgp97v3wgjE3F.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
