[ceph-users] Re: Manual deployment, documentation error?
Hi Marc, > -Oorspronkelijk bericht- > Van: Marc > Verzonden: donderdag 15 september 2022 11:14 > Aan: Dominique Ramaekers ; Ranjan > Ghosh > CC: ceph-users@ceph.io > Onderwerp: RE: [ceph-users] Re: Manual deployment, documentation error? > > > > Cons of using cephadm (and thus docker): > > - You need to learn the basics of docker > > If you learn only the basics, you will probably fuck up when you have some > sort of real issue with ceph. I would not recommend sticking to basics of > anything with this install, it is not like if something goes wrong you > restore a > vm from a snapshot or so. My opinion... If some real issue occurs with ceph, the fix would probably not be found inside the docker configuration. All my initial problems were caused by my own stupidity and not following the manuals correctly. If you know the difference between an image and a container, you know how to pull an updated image and you know how get information about images and containers. You're good to go. It won't hurt to know more. It's always the case that troubleshooting becomes easier with the augmentation of knowledge and experience. But remember. You can't know it all! That's the reason of existence of this mailing list, right? Your argumentation referencing the managing of vm's and snapshots isn't valid => you assume us readers know about managing vm's and snapshots... I remember at least one time, I lost data making an error while managing my vm's > > > Pros: > > + cephadm works very easy. The time you spend on learing docker will > > + be > > easely compensated by the small time you need to learn cephadm > > Incorrect, you need to learn ceph as much as in any install. If you proceed to > use ceph in a manner where you do not know what you are doing, you ‘risk’ > losing your clients data. I never said you won't have to learn ceph. Where do you get this from? I compared 'manualy' installing ceph with installing ceph with cephadm You will need to learn ceph to operate your cluster. > > > + Upgrading a manual installation is very tricky! Cephadm manages > > upgrades of ceph automatically. You only need to give the command > > (done it already two times). > > Why is this tricky? Just read the guidelines and understand them. I would > even argue that you need to know how to update ceph manually. So you are > better prepared for what happens at stages of the update. I don't know how to compile and install a application. Weird that I still can install all kinds of applications and do troubleshooting even if the installation fails > > > + If you need to upgrade your OS, will the manual installation still > > function? With cephadm the ceph processes inside the docker containers > > experience minimal impact with the upgrade of the os (dind't do an OS > > upgrade yet, but had this issue with other applications). > > > > If you need to use cephadm because you can't work with ceph manually, just > forget about using ceph. > (and forget about this docker, do this podman if you have to) See my last statement... > ___ ceph-users mailing list -- ceph-users@ceph.io To unsubscribe send an email to ceph-users-le...@ceph.io
[ceph-users] Re: Manual deployment, documentation error?
> Cons of using cephadm (and thus docker): > - You need to learn the basics of docker If you learn only the basics, you will probably fuck up when you have some sort of real issue with ceph. I would not recommend sticking to basics of anything with this install, it is not like if something goes wrong you restore a vm from a snapshot or so. > Pros: > + cephadm works very easy. The time you spend on learing docker will be > easely compensated by the small time you need to learn cephadm Incorrect, you need to learn ceph as much as in any install. If you proceed to use ceph in a manner where you do not know what you are doing, you ‘risk’ losing your clients data. > + Upgrading a manual installation is very tricky! Cephadm manages > upgrades of ceph automatically. You only need to give the command (done > it already two times). Why is this tricky? Just read the guidelines and understand them. I would even argue that you need to know how to update ceph manually. So you are better prepared for what happens at stages of the update. > + If you need to upgrade your OS, will the manual installation still > function? With cephadm the ceph processes inside the docker containers > experience minimal impact with the upgrade of the os (dind't do an OS > upgrade yet, but had this issue with other applications). > If you need to use cephadm because you can't work with ceph manually, just forget about using ceph. (and forget about this docker, do this podman if you have to) ___ ceph-users mailing list -- ceph-users@ceph.io To unsubscribe send an email to ceph-users-le...@ceph.io
[ceph-users] Re: Manual deployment, documentation error?
Every now and then someone comes up with a subject like this. There is quite a long thread about pros and cons using docker and all tools around ceph on https://lists.ceph.io/hyperkitty/list/ceph-users@ceph.io/thread/TTTYKRVWJOR7LOQ3UCQAZQR32R7YADVY/#AT7YQV6RE5SMKDZHXL3ZI2G5BWFUUUXE Long story short... additional layers of complexity underneath and simplicity on the top because of some hype around docker or something does not solve problems users are facing right now. So the argument for ceph not using docker in installation is actually quite good. On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 10:18 AM Dominique Ramaekers < dominique.ramaek...@cometal.be> wrote: > Hi Ranjan, > > I don't want to intervene but I can testify that docker doesn't make the > installation for a 3-node cluster overkill. > > I to have a 3-node cluster (to be expanded soon to 4 nodes). > > Cons of using cephadm (and thus docker): > - You need to learn the basics of docker > > Pros: > + cephadm works very easy. The time you spend on learing docker will be > easely compensated by the small time you need to learn cephadm > + Upgrading a manual installation is very tricky! Cephadm manages upgrades > of ceph automatically. You only need to give the command (done it already > two times). > + If you need to upgrade your OS, will the manual installation still > function? With cephadm the ceph processes inside the docker containers > experience minimal impact with the upgrade of the os (dind't do an OS > upgrade yet, but had this issue with other applications). > > Greetings, > > Dominique. > > > -Oorspronkelijk bericht- > > Van: Ranjan Ghosh > > Verzonden: woensdag 14 september 2022 15:58 > > Aan: Eugen Block > > CC: ceph-users@ceph.io > > Onderwerp: [ceph-users] Re: Manual deployment, documentation error? > > > > Hi Eugen, > > > > thanks for your answer. I don't want to use the cephadm tool because it > > needs docker. I don't like it because it's total overkill for our small > 3-node > > cluster. I'd like to avoid the added complexity, added packages, > everything. > > Just another thing I have to learn in detaisl about in case things go > wrong. > > > > The monitor service is running but the logs don't say anything :-( Okay, > but at > > least I know now that it should work in principle without the mgr. > > > > Thank you > > Ranjan > > > > Eugen Block schrieb am 14.09.2022 um 15:26: > > > Hi, > > > > > >> Im currently trying the manual deployment because ceph-deploy > > >> unfortunately doesn't seem to exist anymore and under step 19 it says > > >> you should run "sudo ceph -s". That doesn't seem to work. I guess > > >> this is because the manager service isn't yet running, right? > > > > > > ceph-deploy was deprecated quite some time ago, if you want to use a > > > deployment tool try cephadm [1]. The command 'ceph -s' is not > > > depending on the mgr but the mon service. So if that doesn't work you > > > need to check the mon logs and see if the mon service is up and > running. > > > > > >> Interestingly the screenshot under step 19 says "mgr: mon- > > >> node1(active)". If you follow the documentation step by step, there's > > >> no mention of the manager node up until that point. > > > > > > Right after your mentioned screenshot there's a section for the mgr > > > service [2]. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Eugen > > > > > > [1] https://docs.ceph.com/en/quincy/cephadm/install/ > > > [2] > > > https://docs.ceph.com/en/quincy/install/manual-deployment/#manager- > > dae > > > mon-configuration > > > > > > > > > Zitat von Ranjan Ghosh : > > > > > >> Hi all, > > >> > > >> I think there's an error in the documentation: > > >> > > >> https://docs.ceph.com/en/quincy/install/manual-deployment/ > > >> > > >> Im currently trying the manual deployment because ceph-deploy > > >> unfortunately doesn't seem to exist anymore and under step 19 it says > > >> you should run "sudo ceph -s". That doesn't seem to work. I guess > > >> this is because the manager service isn't yet running, right? > > >> > > >> Interestingly the screenshot under step 19 says "mgr: mon- > > >> node1(active)". If you follow the documentation
[ceph-users] Re: Manual deployment, documentation error?
Hi Ranjan, I don't want to intervene but I can testify that docker doesn't make the installation for a 3-node cluster overkill. I to have a 3-node cluster (to be expanded soon to 4 nodes). Cons of using cephadm (and thus docker): - You need to learn the basics of docker Pros: + cephadm works very easy. The time you spend on learing docker will be easely compensated by the small time you need to learn cephadm + Upgrading a manual installation is very tricky! Cephadm manages upgrades of ceph automatically. You only need to give the command (done it already two times). + If you need to upgrade your OS, will the manual installation still function? With cephadm the ceph processes inside the docker containers experience minimal impact with the upgrade of the os (dind't do an OS upgrade yet, but had this issue with other applications). Greetings, Dominique. > -Oorspronkelijk bericht- > Van: Ranjan Ghosh > Verzonden: woensdag 14 september 2022 15:58 > Aan: Eugen Block > CC: ceph-users@ceph.io > Onderwerp: [ceph-users] Re: Manual deployment, documentation error? > > Hi Eugen, > > thanks for your answer. I don't want to use the cephadm tool because it > needs docker. I don't like it because it's total overkill for our small 3-node > cluster. I'd like to avoid the added complexity, added packages, everything. > Just another thing I have to learn in detaisl about in case things go wrong. > > The monitor service is running but the logs don't say anything :-( Okay, but > at > least I know now that it should work in principle without the mgr. > > Thank you > Ranjan > > Eugen Block schrieb am 14.09.2022 um 15:26: > > Hi, > > > >> Im currently trying the manual deployment because ceph-deploy > >> unfortunately doesn't seem to exist anymore and under step 19 it says > >> you should run "sudo ceph -s". That doesn't seem to work. I guess > >> this is because the manager service isn't yet running, right? > > > > ceph-deploy was deprecated quite some time ago, if you want to use a > > deployment tool try cephadm [1]. The command 'ceph -s' is not > > depending on the mgr but the mon service. So if that doesn't work you > > need to check the mon logs and see if the mon service is up and running. > > > >> Interestingly the screenshot under step 19 says "mgr: mon- > >> node1(active)". If you follow the documentation step by step, there's > >> no mention of the manager node up until that point. > > > > Right after your mentioned screenshot there's a section for the mgr > > service [2]. > > > > Regards, > > Eugen > > > > [1] https://docs.ceph.com/en/quincy/cephadm/install/ > > [2] > > https://docs.ceph.com/en/quincy/install/manual-deployment/#manager- > dae > > mon-configuration > > > > > > Zitat von Ranjan Ghosh : > > > >> Hi all, > >> > >> I think there's an error in the documentation: > >> > >> https://docs.ceph.com/en/quincy/install/manual-deployment/ > >> > >> Im currently trying the manual deployment because ceph-deploy > >> unfortunately doesn't seem to exist anymore and under step 19 it says > >> you should run "sudo ceph -s". That doesn't seem to work. I guess > >> this is because the manager service isn't yet running, right? > >> > >> Interestingly the screenshot under step 19 says "mgr: mon- > >> node1(active)". If you follow the documentation step by step, there's > >> no mention of the manager node up until that point. > >> > >> Thank you / BR > >> Ranjan > >> > >> ___ > >> ceph-users mailing list -- ceph-users@ceph.io To unsubscribe send an > >> email to ceph-users-le...@ceph.io > > > > > > > > ___ > > ceph-users mailing list -- ceph-users@ceph.io To unsubscribe send an > > email to ceph-users-le...@ceph.io > > ___ > ceph-users mailing list -- ceph-users@ceph.io To unsubscribe send an email > to ceph-users-le...@ceph.io ___ ceph-users mailing list -- ceph-users@ceph.io To unsubscribe send an email to ceph-users-le...@ceph.io
[ceph-users] Re: Manual deployment, documentation error?
Hi Eugen, thanks for your answer. I don't want to use the cephadm tool because it needs docker. I don't like it because it's total overkill for our small 3-node cluster. I'd like to avoid the added complexity, added packages, everything. Just another thing I have to learn in detaisl about in case things go wrong. The monitor service is running but the logs don't say anything :-( Okay, but at least I know now that it should work in principle without the mgr. Thank you Ranjan Eugen Block schrieb am 14.09.2022 um 15:26: > Hi, > >> Im currently trying the manual deployment because ceph-deploy >> unfortunately doesn't seem to exist anymore and under step 19 it says >> you should run "sudo ceph -s". That doesn't seem to work. I guess this >> is because the manager service isn't yet running, right? > > ceph-deploy was deprecated quite some time ago, if you want to use a > deployment tool try cephadm [1]. The command 'ceph -s' is not > depending on the mgr but the mon service. So if that doesn't work you > need to check the mon logs and see if the mon service is up and running. > >> Interestingly the screenshot under step 19 says "mgr: mon- >> node1(active)". If you follow the documentation step by step, there's >> no mention of the manager node up until that point. > > Right after your mentioned screenshot there's a section for the mgr > service [2]. > > Regards, > Eugen > > [1] https://docs.ceph.com/en/quincy/cephadm/install/ > [2] > https://docs.ceph.com/en/quincy/install/manual-deployment/#manager-daemon-configuration > > > Zitat von Ranjan Ghosh : > >> Hi all, >> >> I think there's an error in the documentation: >> >> https://docs.ceph.com/en/quincy/install/manual-deployment/ >> >> Im currently trying the manual deployment because ceph-deploy >> unfortunately doesn't seem to exist anymore and under step 19 it says >> you should run "sudo ceph -s". That doesn't seem to work. I guess this >> is because the manager service isn't yet running, right? >> >> Interestingly the screenshot under step 19 says "mgr: mon- >> node1(active)". If you follow the documentation step by step, there's >> no mention of the manager node up until that point. >> >> Thank you / BR >> Ranjan >> >> ___ >> ceph-users mailing list -- ceph-users@ceph.io >> To unsubscribe send an email to ceph-users-le...@ceph.io > > > > ___ > ceph-users mailing list -- ceph-users@ceph.io > To unsubscribe send an email to ceph-users-le...@ceph.io ___ ceph-users mailing list -- ceph-users@ceph.io To unsubscribe send an email to ceph-users-le...@ceph.io
[ceph-users] Re: Manual deployment, documentation error?
Hi, Im currently trying the manual deployment because ceph-deploy unfortunately doesn't seem to exist anymore and under step 19 it says you should run "sudo ceph -s". That doesn't seem to work. I guess this is because the manager service isn't yet running, right? ceph-deploy was deprecated quite some time ago, if you want to use a deployment tool try cephadm [1]. The command 'ceph -s' is not depending on the mgr but the mon service. So if that doesn't work you need to check the mon logs and see if the mon service is up and running. Interestingly the screenshot under step 19 says "mgr: mon- node1(active)". If you follow the documentation step by step, there's no mention of the manager node up until that point. Right after your mentioned screenshot there's a section for the mgr service [2]. Regards, Eugen [1] https://docs.ceph.com/en/quincy/cephadm/install/ [2] https://docs.ceph.com/en/quincy/install/manual-deployment/#manager-daemon-configuration Zitat von Ranjan Ghosh : Hi all, I think there's an error in the documentation: https://docs.ceph.com/en/quincy/install/manual-deployment/ Im currently trying the manual deployment because ceph-deploy unfortunately doesn't seem to exist anymore and under step 19 it says you should run "sudo ceph -s". That doesn't seem to work. I guess this is because the manager service isn't yet running, right? Interestingly the screenshot under step 19 says "mgr: mon- node1(active)". If you follow the documentation step by step, there's no mention of the manager node up until that point. Thank you / BR Ranjan ___ ceph-users mailing list -- ceph-users@ceph.io To unsubscribe send an email to ceph-users-le...@ceph.io ___ ceph-users mailing list -- ceph-users@ceph.io To unsubscribe send an email to ceph-users-le...@ceph.io
