[ceph-users] Re: we're living in 2005.

[EDH - Manuel Rios]

Hi Joshua,

I asked like 1 year ago, and didn’t have good sense for setup from ceph 
foundation.

Looks like all must be mailist or IRC but anyway I think the forum can be 
setup without any permission. The community is free to share technical question 
whatever we want or share resoures in a best way than ML and IRC

Regards


-Mensaje original-
De: Joshua West  
Enviado el: viernes, 6 de agosto de 2021 15:29
Para: Janne Johansson 
CC: y...@deepunix.net; ceph-users 
Asunto: [ceph-users] Re: we're living in 2005.

Anyone know how best to get confirmation from the Ceph team if they
would have any issue with a user forum being set up?
--> I am toying with the idea of setting one up.

Josh


On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 1:34 AM Janne Johansson  wrote:
>
> Den mån 26 juli 2021 kl 16:56 skrev :
> > and there's an irc channel that's dead.
>
> This might have an explanation, presumably because of tons of spam
> bots, the ceph channel (or whole oftc network?) requires you to be
> registered (which I wasn't), so I was posting a lot to IRC these last
> weeks and felt quite ignored since certain people kept asking again
> even while I was repeating my answers.
>
> On irssi (and I guess other clients too), the answer was in the
> general server tab, which stated:
>
> 11:47 -!- #ceph Cannot send to channel (You are not registered and verified.
>   '/msg NickServ help' to learn how to register and verify)
>
> So while I do support anti-spam measures and had no troubles
> registering, at least my client did not tell me well enough that my
> posts weren't showing to others, so I went on answering questions with
> text that no one saw. I guess some others did the same and hence the
> channel felt more dead than it actually was.
>
> I suggest ceph channel ops puts this into the topic so users know they
> need to register before their submitted text appears.
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[ceph-users] Re: we're living in 2005.

[Zach Heise (SSCC)]

There's reddit - https://old.reddit.com/r/ceph/ - that's what I've been 
using for months now to get my cluster set up.


Zach Heise
Social Sciences Computing Cooperative
Work and Contact Information 


On 2021-08-06 8:29 AM, j...@cayk.ca wrote:

Anyone know how best to get confirmation from the Ceph team if they
would have any issue with a user forum being set up?
--> I am toying with the idea of setting one up.

Josh


On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 1:34 AM Janne Johansson  wrote:

Den mån 26 juli 2021 kl 16:56 skrev :

and there's an irc channel that's dead.

This might have an explanation, presumably because of tons of spam
bots, the ceph channel (or whole oftc network?) requires you to be
registered (which I wasn't), so I was posting a lot to IRC these last
weeks and felt quite ignored since certain people kept asking again
even while I was repeating my answers.

On irssi (and I guess other clients too), the answer was in the
general server tab, which stated:

11:47 -!- #ceph Cannot send to channel (You are not registered and verified.
   '/msg NickServ help' to learn how to register and verify)

So while I do support anti-spam measures and had no troubles
registering, at least my client did not tell me well enough that my
posts weren't showing to others, so I went on answering questions with
text that no one saw. I guess some others did the same and hence the
channel felt more dead than it actually was.

I suggest ceph channel ops puts this into the topic so users know they
need to register before their submitted text appears.
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[ceph-users] Re: we're living in 2005.

[Joshua West]

Anyone know how best to get confirmation from the Ceph team if they
would have any issue with a user forum being set up?
--> I am toying with the idea of setting one up.

Josh


On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 1:34 AM Janne Johansson  wrote:
>
> Den mån 26 juli 2021 kl 16:56 skrev :
> > and there's an irc channel that's dead.
>
> This might have an explanation, presumably because of tons of spam
> bots, the ceph channel (or whole oftc network?) requires you to be
> registered (which I wasn't), so I was posting a lot to IRC these last
> weeks and felt quite ignored since certain people kept asking again
> even while I was repeating my answers.
>
> On irssi (and I guess other clients too), the answer was in the
> general server tab, which stated:
>
> 11:47 -!- #ceph Cannot send to channel (You are not registered and verified.
>   '/msg NickServ help' to learn how to register and verify)
>
> So while I do support anti-spam measures and had no troubles
> registering, at least my client did not tell me well enough that my
> posts weren't showing to others, so I went on answering questions with
> text that no one saw. I guess some others did the same and hence the
> channel felt more dead than it actually was.
>
> I suggest ceph channel ops puts this into the topic so users know they
> need to register before their submitted text appears.
> ___
> ceph-users mailing list -- ceph-users@ceph.io
> To unsubscribe send an email to ceph-users-le...@ceph.io
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[ceph-users] Re: we're living in 2005.

[Janne Johansson]

Den mån 26 juli 2021 kl 16:56 skrev :
> and there's an irc channel that's dead.

This might have an explanation, presumably because of tons of spam
bots, the ceph channel (or whole oftc network?) requires you to be
registered (which I wasn't), so I was posting a lot to IRC these last
weeks and felt quite ignored since certain people kept asking again
even while I was repeating my answers.

On irssi (and I guess other clients too), the answer was in the
general server tab, which stated:

11:47 -!- #ceph Cannot send to channel (You are not registered and verified.
  '/msg NickServ help' to learn how to register and verify)

So while I do support anti-spam measures and had no troubles
registering, at least my client did not tell me well enough that my
posts weren't showing to others, so I went on answering questions with
text that no one saw. I guess some others did the same and hence the
channel felt more dead than it actually was.

I suggest ceph channel ops puts this into the topic so users know they
need to register before their submitted text appears.
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[ceph-users] Re: we're living in 2005.

[Виталий Филиппов]

Of course, but Telegram is popular and has a lot of interesting features and it 
used to fight censorship :)). Matrix is interesting too, but I suspect it 
doesn't have that amount of users - we have 1650 members in our russian Ceph 
group, that's definitely something

27 июля 2021 г. 11:39:31 GMT+03:00, Marc  пишет:
>> Google groups is only like 2007. Use Telegram @ceph_users and/or
>> @ceph_ru :-)
>
>Telegram is grabbing your phone numbers, contacts and ip addresses.
>They just got 1 billion in funding, who's going to be paying that back,
>telegram users of course.
>The only viable option is this matrix, xmpp or something not centrally
>managed.

-- 
With best regards,
  Vitaliy Filippov
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[ceph-users] Re: we're living in 2005.

[Janne Johansson]

Den tis 27 juli 2021 kl 12:32 skrev Rok Jaklič :
> Actually, some of us tried to contribute to documentation but were stopped
> with failed build checks for some reason.
> While most of it is ok, at some places documentation is vague or missing
> (maybe also the reason why this thread is so long also).
>
> One example:
> https://github.com/ceph/ceph/pull/40965/commits/9bd1fc55f73b4d243de018ecd0939543f950

That is a very good diff actually.
Lots of ways to trap the newcomers if you keep mixing up node names.

Same with all the places where rgw and radosgw gets used and
referenced intermixed so you never know if an rgw config option or
auth ticket should be
(client.)rgw.shorthostname
or
(client.)radosgw.shorthostname
just by being abbreviated in two different ways.

-- 
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[ceph-users] Re: we're living in 2005.

[Rok Jaklič]

Actually, some of us tried to contribute to documentation but were stopped
with failed build checks for some reason.

While most of it is ok, at some places documentation is vague or missing
(maybe also the reason why this thread is so long also).

One example:
https://github.com/ceph/ceph/pull/40965/commits/9bd1fc55f73b4d243de018ecd0939543f950

On Tue, Jul 27, 2021 at 10:21 AM Wido den Hollander  wrote:

>
>
> Op 27-07-2021 om 05:11 schreef Fyodor Ustinov:
> > Hi!
> >
> >> docs.ceph.io ?  If there’s something that you’d like to see added
> there, you’re
> >> welcome to submit a tracker ticket, or write to me privately.  It is not
> >> uncommon for documentation enhancements to be made based on mailing list
> >> feedback.
> >
> > Documentation...
> >
> > Try to install a completely new ceph cluster from scratch on fresh
> installed LTS Ubuntu by this doc
> https://docs.ceph.com/en/latest/cephadm/install/ . Many interesting
> discoveries await you.
> > Nothing special - only step by step installation. As described in
> documentation. No more and no less.
> >
>
> But who's responsibility is it to write documentation? Ceph is Open
> Source and anybody can help to make it better.
>
> Developing Ceph is not only writing code, but that could also be writing
> documentation.
>
> Open Source != Free, that means that you need to invest time to get it
> working.
>
> And if you spot flaws in the documentation anybody is more then welcome
> to open a pull request to improve the documentation.
>
> Who else do we expect to write the documentation? In the end everybody
> needs to get paid and in the end the company who pays that person needs
> to get paid. That's how it works.
>
> Suggestions and feedback are always welcome, but don't expect a paved
> road for free.
>
> Wido
>
> > WBR,
> >  Fyodor.
> > ___
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> >
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[ceph-users] Re: we're living in 2005.

[Fyodor Ustinov]

Hi!

It's not my report - https://tracker.ceph.com/issues/45009


- Original Message -
> From: "Hans van den Bogert" 
> To: "ceph-users" 
> Sent: Tuesday, 27 July, 2021 11:20:48
> Subject: [ceph-users] Re: we're living in 2005.

>> Try to install a completely new ceph cluster from scratch on fresh installed 
>> LTS
>> Ubuntu by this doc https://docs.ceph.com/en/latest/cephadm/install/ . Many
>> interesting discoveries await you.
> You mean it doesn't work as advertised?
> 
> If you did encounter bugs, have you made bug reports?
> 
> -H
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[ceph-users] Re: we're living in 2005.

[Fyodor Ustinov]

Hi!

>>> docs.ceph.io ?  If there’s something that you’d like to see added there, 
>>> you’re
>>> welcome to submit a tracker ticket, or write to me privately.  It is not
>>> uncommon for documentation enhancements to be made based on mailing list
>>> feedback.
>> Documentation...
>> Try to install a completely new ceph cluster from scratch on fresh installed 
>> LTS
>> Ubuntu by this doc https://docs.ceph.com/en/latest/cephadm/install/ . Many
>> interesting discoveries await you.
>> Nothing special - only step by step installation. As described in 
>> documentation.
>> No more and no less.
>> 
> 
> But who's responsibility is it to write documentation? Ceph is Open
> Source and anybody can help to make it better.

But who is responsible for fixing this bug 
https://tracker.ceph.com/issues/45009 one year? 

P.S. And by the way, I'm not sure if it was fixed. Since I have experience of 
closing my bug report without fixing it.

WBR,
Fyodor.
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[ceph-users] Re: we're living in 2005.

[Marc]

> Google groups is only like 2007. Use Telegram @ceph_users and/or
> @ceph_ru :-)

Telegram is grabbing your phone numbers, contacts and ip addresses. They just 
got 1 billion in funding, who's going to be paying that back, telegram users of 
course.
The only viable option is this matrix, xmpp or something not centrally managed.
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[ceph-users] Re: we're living in 2005.

[Janne Johansson]

Den tis 27 juli 2021 kl 10:21 skrev Wido den Hollander :
> > Try to install a completely new ceph cluster from scratch on fresh 
> > installed LTS Ubuntu by this doc 
> > https://docs.ceph.com/en/latest/cephadm/install/ . Many interesting 
> > discoveries await you.
> > Nothing special - only step by step installation. As described in 
> > documentation. No more and no less.
>
> But who's responsibility is it to write documentation? Ceph is Open
> Source and anybody can help to make it better.
> Developing Ceph is not only writing code, but that could also be writing
> documentation.
> And if you spot flaws in the documentation anybody is more then welcome
> to open a pull request to improve the documentation.

Then again, it took me quite a while to get a single-character docs PR
*) right before it could get merged, so my hint to anyone wanting to
improve docs is to contact Zac Dover and have him jump through the
hoops, he has been very responsive to all my doc suggestions.

But while we are at the docs topic, I would suggest not letting code
acquire new subcommands and features without the corresponding
documentation also being added, so you don't end up with commands
like:

$ ceph osd frotzificate
where "ceph --help" says "frotzificate " and the command line
reference manual expands this to:
"this command frotzificates the OSD" leaving you with no more
information than the original ceph osd subcommand verb had even if it
uses slightly more words.

In cases like this, we on the "outside" can't divine the information
in finite time in order to figure out what, when, how and why one
should frotzificate your OSD in order to add value to the docs even if
the add-to-docs part is simple and available to anyone.

I get that some commands and sub-features are internal-only or not
meant for general consumption, but I think the above example exist in
lots of cases where ceph admins actually are supposed to run them at
times.


*) https://github.com/ceph/ceph/pull/38356




--
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[ceph-users] Re: we're living in 2005.

[Janne Johansson]

Den tis 27 juli 2021 kl 10:09 skrev Marc :
> >
> > Try to install a completely new ceph cluster from scratch on fresh
> > installed LTS Ubuntu by this doc
> > https://docs.ceph.com/en/latest/cephadm/install/ . Many interesting
> > discoveries await you.
>
> on centos7 14.2.22, manual with no surprises (just installed, so not really 
> fully tested), less than 100 lines. I prefer the online manuals to have it 
> like this. Especially with user primissions, because these have been changing 
> syntax a little over time.
>
> yum install python-werkzeug -y
> yum install ceph-osd ceph-mgr ceph-mon ceph-mds ceph-radosgw -y

^
I usually end up needing to add epel-release, otherwise some deps
didn't work out.

> 
> osd's
> 
> sudo -u ceph ceph auth get client.bootstrap-osd -o 
> /var/lib/ceph/bootstrap-osd/ceph.keyring

This part will not work unless the ceph admin key already is in place
on all the OSD hosts, so if you are not running all services on the
same host as the rest, this part would fail.

> ceph-volume lvm zap --destroy /dev/sdb
> ceph-volume lvm create --data /dev/sdb --dmcrypt
> systemctl enable ceph-osd@0

..and these (sdb and osd@0) of course will vary for everyone

Radosgw was installed but not enabled, configured or started, nor was
a bootstrap key for it made (does anyone use bootstrap for rgw?)

Not trying to shoot you down or anything, just point out that there
are hidden assumptions everytime anyone tries to write docs that are
supposed to "help" everyone.


-- 
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[ceph-users] Re: we're living in 2005.

[Hans van den Bogert]

Try to install a completely new ceph cluster from scratch on fresh installed 
LTS Ubuntu by this doc https://docs.ceph.com/en/latest/cephadm/install/ . Many 
interesting discoveries await you.

You mean it doesn't work as advertised?

If you did encounter bugs, have you made bug reports?

-H
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[ceph-users] Re: we're living in 2005.

[Wido den Hollander]

Op 27-07-2021 om 05:11 schreef Fyodor Ustinov:

Hi!


docs.ceph.io ?  If there’s something that you’d like to see added there, you’re
welcome to submit a tracker ticket, or write to me privately.  It is not
uncommon for documentation enhancements to be made based on mailing list
feedback.


Documentation...

Try to install a completely new ceph cluster from scratch on fresh installed 
LTS Ubuntu by this doc https://docs.ceph.com/en/latest/cephadm/install/ . Many 
interesting discoveries await you.
Nothing special - only step by step installation. As described in 
documentation. No more and no less.



But who's responsibility is it to write documentation? Ceph is Open 
Source and anybody can help to make it better.


Developing Ceph is not only writing code, but that could also be writing 
documentation.


Open Source != Free, that means that you need to invest time to get it 
working.


And if you spot flaws in the documentation anybody is more then welcome 
to open a pull request to improve the documentation.


Who else do we expect to write the documentation? In the end everybody 
needs to get paid and in the end the company who pays that person needs 
to get paid. That's how it works.


Suggestions and feedback are always welcome, but don't expect a paved 
road for free.


Wido


WBR,
 Fyodor.
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[ceph-users] Re: we're living in 2005.

[Marc]

> 
> Try to install a completely new ceph cluster from scratch on fresh
> installed LTS Ubuntu by this doc
> https://docs.ceph.com/en/latest/cephadm/install/ . Many interesting
> discoveries await you.

on centos7 14.2.22, manual with no surprises (just installed, so not really 
fully tested), less than 100 lines. I prefer the online manuals to have it like 
this. Especially with user primissions, because these have been changing syntax 
a little over time. 



yum install python-werkzeug -y
yum install ceph-osd ceph-mgr ceph-mon ceph-mds ceph-radosgw -y

cat << EOCM > /etc/ceph/ceph.conf
[global]

fsid=`uuidgen` 
mon initial members = t03
mon host = 192.168.0.213

public network = 192.168.0.0/24
auth cluster required = cephx
auth service required = cephx
auth client required = cephx
osd pool default size = 2
osd pool default min size = 1
osd pool default pg num = 8
osd pool default pgp num = 8
osd crush chooseleaf type = 1

EOCM



monitor

sudo -u ceph ceph-authtool --create-keyring /tmp/ceph.mon.keyring --gen-key -n 
mon. --cap mon 'allow *'

ceph-authtool --create-keyring /etc/ceph/ceph.client.admin.keyring --gen-key -n 
client.admin --cap mon 'allow *' --cap osd 'allow *' --cap mds 'allow *' --cap 
mgr 'allow *'
chown ceph.ceph /etc/ceph/ceph.client.admin.keyring

sudo -u ceph ceph-authtool --create-keyring 
/var/lib/ceph/bootstrap-osd/ceph.keyring --gen-key -n client.bootstrap-osd 
--cap mon 'profile bootstrap-osd' --cap mgr 'allow r'

sudo -u ceph ceph-authtool /tmp/ceph.mon.keyring --import-keyring 
/etc/ceph/ceph.client.admin.keyring
sudo ceph-authtool /tmp/ceph.mon.keyring --import-keyring 
/var/lib/ceph/bootstrap-osd/ceph.keyring

sudo chown ceph:ceph /tmp/ceph.mon.keyring

sudo -u ceph monmaptool --create --add t03 192.168.0.213 --fsid `grep fsid 
/etc/ceph/ceph.conf | cut -d"=" -f2` /tmp/monmap

sudo -u ceph mkdir /var/lib/ceph/mon/ceph-t03
chmod o-rwx /var/lib/ceph/mon/ceph-t03

sudo -u ceph ceph-mon --mkfs -i t03 --monmap /tmp/monmap --keyring 
/tmp/ceph.mon.keyring

systemctl is-enabled ceph-mon.target
systemctl enable ceph-mon@t03
systemctl start ceph-mon@t03

ceph -s


mgr

sudo -u ceph mkdir /var/lib/ceph/mgr/ceph-t03
chmod o-rwx /var/lib/ceph/mgr/ceph-t03

sudo -u ceph ceph auth add mgr.t03 mon 'allow profile mgr' osd 'allow *' mds 
'allow *'
sudo -u ceph ceph auth get mgr.t03 -o /var/lib/ceph/mgr/ceph-t03/keyring

systemctl is-enabled ceph-mgr.target
systemctl enable ceph-mgr@t03
systemctl start ceph-mgr@t03

ceph -s


mds

sudo -u ceph mkdir /var/lib/ceph/mds/ceph-t03
chmod o-rwx /var/lib/ceph/mds/ceph-t03

sudo -u ceph ceph-authtool --create-keyring /var/lib/ceph/mds/ceph-t03/keyring 
--gen-key -n mds.t03

sudo -u ceph ceph auth add mds.t03 osd "allow rwx" mds "allow *" mon "allow 
profile mds" -i /var/lib/ceph/mds/ceph-t03/keyring

systemctl is-enabled ceph-mds.target
systemctl enable ceph-mds@t03
systemctl start ceph-mds@t03

ceph -s


osd's

sudo -u ceph ceph auth get client.bootstrap-osd -o 
/var/lib/ceph/bootstrap-osd/ceph.keyring

ceph-volume lvm zap --destroy /dev/sdb
ceph-volume lvm create --data /dev/sdb --dmcrypt

systemctl enable ceph-osd@0



some defaults

ceph mon enable-msgr2
ceph config set mon auth_allow_insecure_global_id_reclaim false

ceph osd crush rule create-replicated replicated_ssd default host ssd
ceph osd crush rule create-replicated replicated_hdd default host hdd

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[ceph-users] Re: we're living in 2005.

[Janne Johansson]

Den tis 27 juli 2021 kl 05:12 skrev Fyodor Ustinov :
>
> Hi!
>
> > docs.ceph.io ?  If there’s something that you’d like to see added there, 
> > you’re
> > welcome to submit a tracker ticket, or write to me privately.  It is not
> > uncommon for documentation enhancements to be made based on mailing list
> > feedback.
>
> Documentation...
>
> Try to install a completely new ceph cluster from scratch on fresh installed 
> LTS Ubuntu by this doc https://docs.ceph.com/en/latest/cephadm/install/ . 
> Many interesting discoveries await you.
> Nothing special - only step by step installation. As described in 
> documentation. No more and no less.

I did the manual steps on CentOS recently, and had the same experience
there. If you already know what needs to run and in what order, the
docs only hold small surprises for you.

-- 
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[ceph-users] Re: we're living in 2005.

[Fyodor Ustinov]

Hi!

> docs.ceph.io ?  If there’s something that you’d like to see added there, 
> you’re
> welcome to submit a tracker ticket, or write to me privately.  It is not
> uncommon for documentation enhancements to be made based on mailing list
> feedback.

Documentation...

Try to install a completely new ceph cluster from scratch on fresh installed 
LTS Ubuntu by this doc https://docs.ceph.com/en/latest/cephadm/install/ . Many 
interesting discoveries await you.
Nothing special - only step by step installation. As described in 
documentation. No more and no less.

WBR,
Fyodor.
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[ceph-users] Re: we're living in 2005.

[Joshua West]

I want to chime in here as well. I am a relatively new Ceph user who
learned about Ceph through my use of Proxmox.
I have two small 5 node Ceph/Proxmox clusters in two different
locations (to play with mirroring), and a mere 300TB of combined
storage.

This is a hobby for me. I find Ceph really interesting, and have been
enjoying my time learning and playing with Ceph.

Naturally, as time goes on, I have more and more time and effort
invested into this hobby, and have definitely run into issues while
learning.

With all that preamble out of the way, I whole-heartedly agree with
Yuri. Particularly when troubleshooting issues, my experience was that
there was an open-but-closed experience with Ceph. The docs are very
thorough, and a lifesaver, but it felt to me that there is a
goldilocks zone for knowledge.

The true basics are mostly included in the docs, but as I progressed
beyond simple cluster setup, and began trying to optimize my cluster,
was where I wished there was a modern and official place to learn and
chat with other users at my relative level of expertise.

This is the first, and quite possibly last bbs mailing list I've
joined. Not because this one is anything but awesome, but because,
frankly, I wasn't even aware they still existed.

Josh


Joshua West
President
403-456-0072
CAYK.ca


On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 1:12 PM Yosh de Vos  wrote:
>
> Hi Marc, seems like you had a bad night's sleep right?
> There is just so much wrong with that reply.
>
> I think Yuri has a valid point, it is really hard to find support or
> solutions online. Also the documentation page is lacking explaining basic
> knowledge about Ceph concepts which would be helpful for newcomers.
> it almost feels like Ceph is a closed source solution or not used by many
> from the search results I get.
> Are they too focused on having Ceph consultants to fix your problems or do
> they actually want to build a community to share knowledge?
>
>
>
>
> Op ma 26 jul. 2021 om 19:48 schreef Marc :
>
> >
> > > I feel like ceph is living in 2005.
> >
> > No it is just you. Why don't you start reading
> > https://docs.ceph.com/en/latest/
> >
> > >It's quite hard to find help on
> > > issues related to ceph and it's almost impossible to get involved into
> > > helping others.
> >
> > ???, Just click the reply button, you must be able to find that, not?
> >
> > > There's a BBS aka Mailman maillist, which is from 1980 era and there's
> > > an irc channel that's dead.
> > > Why not set a Q board up or a google group at least?
> >
> > Because that is shit, you can not sign up via email, google is putting up
> > these cookie walls, and last but not least you are forcing people to share
> > their data with google. Maybe you do not care what data google grabbing of
> > you, but others might do.
> >
> > > Why not open a
> > > "Discussions" tab on github so people would be able to get connected?
> >
> > Because it would spread the knowledge over different media, and therefore
> > you are likely to create a situation where on each medium your repsonse
> > times go down. Everyone has email, not everyone has a github account.
> >
> > > Why do I have to end up on random reddit boards and servethehome and
> >
> > Wtf reddit, servethehome?? There is nothing you can find there. Every time
> > there is reddit link in my search results, the information there is shit. I
> > am not even opening reddit links anymore.
> >
> > > proxmox forums trying to nit pick pieces of knowledge from random
> > > persons?
> > >
> >
> > Yes if I want to get more info on linux, I am always asking at microsoft
> > technet.
> >
> > > I'm always losing hope each time I have to deal with ceph issues.
> >
> > Issues?? If you have a default setup, you hardly have (one even can say
> > no) issues.
> >
> > > But
> > > when it works, it's majestic of course. Documentation (both on redhat
> > > side and main docs) is pretty thorough, though.
> > >
> >
> > So if you read it all, you should not have any problems. I did not even
> > read all, and do not have any issues (knock on wood, of course). But I have
> > the impression you (like many others here) are not taking enough time to
> > educate yourself.
> > If you a aspire to become a brain surgion, you also do not get educated
> > via reddit, not? Educate yourself, so when the shit hits the fan, you can
> > fix the majority yourself. Ceph is not a wordpress project.
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > ceph-users mailing list -- ceph-users@ceph.io
> > To unsubscribe send an email to ceph-users-le...@ceph.io
> >
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[ceph-users] Re: we're living in 2005.

[Anthony D'Atri]

>> Are they too focused on having Ceph consultants to fix your problems or
>> do they actually want to build a community to share knowledge?
>> 
> 
> I am also a little worried about this strategy. You can see also that redhat 
> is putting it's information pages behind a login. Now they cancelled CentOS. 
> What is next to come, p

CentOS isn’t canceled.

Ceph — and thus everyone using it -- has benefitted dramatically from Red Hat’s 
contributions to the Ceph codebase and community.  They have employees with 
addictions to food and shelter, who are paid by charging for Red Hat services.  
That said, last I knew one can sign up for a developer account and access many 
of Red Hat’s articles.

The community has always been Ceph’s superpower.

Mailing lists are far from dead or obsolete.  They accomodate people in 
timezones around the world, and are widely and readily indexed and archived.  
That said, a web forum might not be a bad idea, given resources to host and 
administer it, though it might be more susceptible to data loss.  

> Also the documentation page is lacking explaining basic
> knowledge about Ceph concepts which would be helpful for newcomers.


docs.ceph.io ?  If there’s something that you’d like to see added there, you’re 
welcome to submit a tracker ticket, or write to me privately.  It is not 
uncommon for documentation enhancements to be made based on mailing list 
feedback.

I can also recommend a book for people getting started with Ceph ;)

— aad


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[ceph-users] Re: we're living in 2005.

[Виталий Филиппов]

Google groups is only like 2007. Use Telegram @ceph_users and/or @ceph_ru :-) 

24 июля 2021 г. 0:27:21 GMT+03:00, y...@deepunix.net пишет:
>I feel like ceph is living in 2005. It's quite hard to find help on
>issues related to ceph and it's almost impossible to get involved into
>helping others. 
>There's a BBS aka Mailman maillist, which is from 1980 era and there's
>an irc channel that's dead. 
>
>Why not set a Q board up or a google group at least? Why not open a
>"Discussions" tab on github so people would be able to get connected?
>
>Why do I have to end up on random reddit boards and servethehome and
>proxmox forums trying to nit pick pieces of knowledge from random
>persons?
>
>
>I'm always losing hope each time I have to deal with ceph issues. But
>when it works, it's majestic of course. Documentation (both on redhat
>side and main docs) is pretty thorough, though.
>
>tnx
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-- 
With best regards,
  Vitaliy Filippov
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[ceph-users] Re: we're living in 2005.

[Brad Hubbard]

On Tue, Jul 27, 2021 at 3:49 AM Marc  wrote:
>
>
> > I feel like ceph is living in 2005.
>
> No it is just you. Why don't you start reading 
> https://docs.ceph.com/en/latest/
>
> >It's quite hard to find help on
> > issues related to ceph and it's almost impossible to get involved into
> > helping others.
>
> ???, Just click the reply button, you must be able to find that, not?
>
> > There's a BBS aka Mailman maillist, which is from 1980 era and there's
> > an irc channel that's dead.

Can you clarify which IRC channel specifically you are referring to here?

> > Why not set a Q board up or a google group at least?
>
> Because that is shit, you can not sign up via email, google is putting up 
> these cookie walls, and last but not least you are forcing people to share 
> their data with google. Maybe you do not care what data google grabbing of 
> you, but others might do.
>
> > Why not open a
> > "Discussions" tab on github so people would be able to get connected?
>
> Because it would spread the knowledge over different media, and therefore you 
> are likely to create a situation where on each medium your repsonse times go 
> down. Everyone has email, not everyone has a github account.
>
> > Why do I have to end up on random reddit boards and servethehome and
>
> Wtf reddit, servethehome?? There is nothing you can find there. Every time 
> there is reddit link in my search results, the information there is shit. I 
> am not even opening reddit links anymore.
>
> > proxmox forums trying to nit pick pieces of knowledge from random
> > persons?
> >
>
> Yes if I want to get more info on linux, I am always asking at microsoft 
> technet.
>
> > I'm always losing hope each time I have to deal with ceph issues.
>
> Issues?? If you have a default setup, you hardly have (one even can say no) 
> issues.
>
> > But
> > when it works, it's majestic of course. Documentation (both on redhat
> > side and main docs) is pretty thorough, though.
> >
>
> So if you read it all, you should not have any problems. I did not even read 
> all, and do not have any issues (knock on wood, of course). But I have the 
> impression you (like many others here) are not taking enough time to educate 
> yourself.
> If you a aspire to become a brain surgion, you also do not get educated via 
> reddit, not? Educate yourself, so when the shit hits the fan, you can fix the 
> majority yourself. Ceph is not a wordpress project.
>
>
>
> ___
> ceph-users mailing list -- ceph-users@ceph.io
> To unsubscribe send an email to ceph-users-le...@ceph.io
>


-- 
Cheers,
Brad

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[ceph-users] Re: we're living in 2005.

[Marc]

> 
> Hi Marc, seems like you had a bad night's sleep right?

No, no, no I am really like that all the time ;)

> it is really hard to find support or
> solutions online. 

What do you even mean by this?

> Also the documentation page is lacking explaining
> basic knowledge about Ceph concepts which would be helpful for
> newcomers.

Lets say I have linux sysadmin background, if you have that, you have it up and 
running quickly. Recently I installed a test cluster. After reading my manual 
for the new server install, I am still surprised how easily and quickly you can 
have a 3 node cluster, with 3 osds, 1 mon, 1 mgr and 1 mds online.
Now they are trying to push this container solution, which I do not get. Then 
you have to learn ceph and learn about containers.

> it almost feels like Ceph is a closed source solution or not used by
> many from the search results I get.

Who cares how many use it. If cern and nasa are using it, it is good enough for 
me.

> Are they too focused on having Ceph consultants to fix your problems or
> do they actually want to build a community to share knowledge?
> 

I am also a little worried about this strategy. You can see also that redhat is 
putting it's information pages behind a login. Now they cancelled CentOS. What 
is next to come, p
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[ceph-users] Re: we're living in 2005.

[Yosh de Vos]

Hi Marc, seems like you had a bad night's sleep right?
There is just so much wrong with that reply.

I think Yuri has a valid point, it is really hard to find support or
solutions online. Also the documentation page is lacking explaining basic
knowledge about Ceph concepts which would be helpful for newcomers.
it almost feels like Ceph is a closed source solution or not used by many
from the search results I get.
Are they too focused on having Ceph consultants to fix your problems or do
they actually want to build a community to share knowledge?




Op ma 26 jul. 2021 om 19:48 schreef Marc :

>
> > I feel like ceph is living in 2005.
>
> No it is just you. Why don't you start reading
> https://docs.ceph.com/en/latest/
>
> >It's quite hard to find help on
> > issues related to ceph and it's almost impossible to get involved into
> > helping others.
>
> ???, Just click the reply button, you must be able to find that, not?
>
> > There's a BBS aka Mailman maillist, which is from 1980 era and there's
> > an irc channel that's dead.
> > Why not set a Q board up or a google group at least?
>
> Because that is shit, you can not sign up via email, google is putting up
> these cookie walls, and last but not least you are forcing people to share
> their data with google. Maybe you do not care what data google grabbing of
> you, but others might do.
>
> > Why not open a
> > "Discussions" tab on github so people would be able to get connected?
>
> Because it would spread the knowledge over different media, and therefore
> you are likely to create a situation where on each medium your repsonse
> times go down. Everyone has email, not everyone has a github account.
>
> > Why do I have to end up on random reddit boards and servethehome and
>
> Wtf reddit, servethehome?? There is nothing you can find there. Every time
> there is reddit link in my search results, the information there is shit. I
> am not even opening reddit links anymore.
>
> > proxmox forums trying to nit pick pieces of knowledge from random
> > persons?
> >
>
> Yes if I want to get more info on linux, I am always asking at microsoft
> technet.
>
> > I'm always losing hope each time I have to deal with ceph issues.
>
> Issues?? If you have a default setup, you hardly have (one even can say
> no) issues.
>
> > But
> > when it works, it's majestic of course. Documentation (both on redhat
> > side and main docs) is pretty thorough, though.
> >
>
> So if you read it all, you should not have any problems. I did not even
> read all, and do not have any issues (knock on wood, of course). But I have
> the impression you (like many others here) are not taking enough time to
> educate yourself.
> If you a aspire to become a brain surgion, you also do not get educated
> via reddit, not? Educate yourself, so when the shit hits the fan, you can
> fix the majority yourself. Ceph is not a wordpress project.
>
>
>
> ___
> ceph-users mailing list -- ceph-users@ceph.io
> To unsubscribe send an email to ceph-users-le...@ceph.io
>
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[ceph-users] Re: we're living in 2005.

[Marc]

> I feel like ceph is living in 2005. 

No it is just you. Why don't you start reading https://docs.ceph.com/en/latest/

>It's quite hard to find help on
> issues related to ceph and it's almost impossible to get involved into
> helping others.

???, Just click the reply button, you must be able to find that, not?

> There's a BBS aka Mailman maillist, which is from 1980 era and there's
> an irc channel that's dead.
> Why not set a Q board up or a google group at least?

Because that is shit, you can not sign up via email, google is putting up these 
cookie walls, and last but not least you are forcing people to share their data 
with google. Maybe you do not care what data google grabbing of you, but others 
might do. 

> Why not open a
> "Discussions" tab on github so people would be able to get connected?

Because it would spread the knowledge over different media, and therefore you 
are likely to create a situation where on each medium your repsonse times go 
down. Everyone has email, not everyone has a github account.

> Why do I have to end up on random reddit boards and servethehome and

Wtf reddit, servethehome?? There is nothing you can find there. Every time 
there is reddit link in my search results, the information there is shit. I am 
not even opening reddit links anymore.

> proxmox forums trying to nit pick pieces of knowledge from random
> persons?
> 

Yes if I want to get more info on linux, I am always asking at microsoft 
technet.

> I'm always losing hope each time I have to deal with ceph issues.

Issues?? If you have a default setup, you hardly have (one even can say no) 
issues. 

> But
> when it works, it's majestic of course. Documentation (both on redhat
> side and main docs) is pretty thorough, though.
> 

So if you read it all, you should not have any problems. I did not even read 
all, and do not have any issues (knock on wood, of course). But I have the 
impression you (like many others here) are not taking enough time to educate 
yourself. 
If you a aspire to become a brain surgion, you also do not get educated via 
reddit, not? Educate yourself, so when the shit hits the fan, you can fix the 
majority yourself. Ceph is not a wordpress project.



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