Re: [CF-metadata] CMIP5 carbon cycle standard names
on the face of it they appear to be alternative way of expressing the same quantity. I presume that there is a principle that, where possible, names should be constructed according to a consistent pattern (especially in the light of> Jonathan's work on rules for formulating names), so my guess is that there are some reasons for the above differences but I am not sure what they are. As you've probably guessed, my interest in this relates to my own work on developing a grammar for standard names, and it is clearly desirable to reduce the number of grammar rules to a minimum. I agree that wherever possible we should stick to using a small set of grammar rules. However, there are occasions where being too rigid about the syntax can result in immensely long and unwieldy (and therefore difficult to understand) names. Often it is just a question of readability. I think we could call the second quantity surface_upward_mass_flux_of_carbon[_due_to_emission_from_natural_source s ] to make it more consistent with the first without any loss of readability. Does anyone object to this change? Looking at the third name and trying to squeeze it into the same pattern would give something like: surface_upward_carbon_mass_flux_due_to_emission_from_plant_respiration_ f or_biomass_growth which I think is less readable, so I prefer the syntax without the 'emission'. Do others agree? (Incidentally, this would also affect another related name: surface_upward_carbon_mass_flux_due_to_plant_respiration_for_biomass_ma i ntenance). Robert's email has caused me to re-read the names more carefully and I realise that I have neglected to make clear that many of the carbon fluxes are in fact mass fluxes (as opposed to mole fluxes, for example). I would like to slightly revise some of the names already accepted to include the word 'mass': surface_upward_mass_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon_due_to_e m ission_from_fires_excluding_land_use_change; kg m-2 s-1 surface_upward_mass_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon_due_to_e m ission_from_grazing; kg m-2 s-1 surface_upward_mass_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon_due_to_e m ission_from_crop_harvesting; kg m-2 s-1 surface_net_upward_mass_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon_due_ t o_emission_from_anthropogenic_land_use_change; kg m-2 s-1 surface_net_downward_mass_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon_du e _to_photosynthesis_and_respiration_and_fires_including_land_use_change; kg m-2 s-1 carbon_mass_flux_into_soil_from_litter; kg m-2 s-1 carbon_mass_flux_into_soil_from_vegetation_excluding_litter; kg m-2 s-1 surface_upward_carbon_mass_flux_due_to_plant_respiration_for_biomass_gr o wth; kg m-2 s-1 surface_upward_carbon_mass_flux_due_to_plant_respiration_for_biomass_ma i ntenance; kg m-2 s-1 surface_net_downward_mass_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon_du e _to_photosynthesis_and_respiration_and_fires_excluding_land_use_change; kg m-2 s-1. Best wishes, Alison -- Alison Pamment Tel: +44 1235 778065 NCAS/British Atmospheric Data CentreFax: +44 1235 446314 Rutherford Appleton Laboratory Email: alison.pamm...@stfc.ac.uk Chilton, Didcot, OX11 0QX, U.K. -Original Message- From: Cameron-smith, Philip [mailto:cameronsmi...@llnl.gov] Sent: 23 September 2010 19:48 To: Pierre Friedlingstein; Pamment, Alison (STFC,RAL,SSTD) Cc: cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu Subject: RE: [CF-metadata] CMIP5 carbon cycle standard names Hi Pierre, Sorry for causing confusion. I understood that the question was whether to introduce the following two standard names (for your purpose) tendency_of_atmosphere_mass_content_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carb on_due_to_anthropogenic_emission; kg m-2 s-1 tendency_of_atmosphere_mass_content_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carb on_due_to_emission_from_fossil_fuel_combustion; kg m-2 s-1 Or these two, surface_upward_mass_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon_due_to_a nthropogenic_emission; kg m-2 s-1 surface_upward_mass_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon_due_to_e mission_from_fossil_fuel_combustion; kg m-2 s-1. Alison had originally proposed the former (tendency_), and you (Pierre) argued for the latter (surface_). What I liked was Alison's description of why these tendency_ and surface_ quantities are physically different because the tendency_ quantity also includes non-surface emissions. My first point was that your application included aircraft emissions so that the tendency_ quantity is the correct physical quantity for your applicati
Re: [CF-metadata] CMIP5 carbon cycle standard names
Hi all, I'm getting confused now. I understood Alison last proposal as keeping only one name : surface_upward_mass_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon_due_to_anthropogenic_emission; kg m-2 s-1 surface_upward_mass_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon_due_to_emission_from_fossil_fuel_combustion; kg m-2 s-1. Philip's mail, seemed to imply that both names could be used as he liked Alison's distinction... Could you clarify what the final decision? For info, yes the data do include aircraft, chimneys,... emissions as these data are derived from country based reporting of fossil fuel trades. Hence the aircraft emissions from US carriers are in the US numbers and hence assigned on the US territory. This might be OK for US as most of the flight are domestic, but I'm sure this is 99.9 % wrong for Belgium ;-). Saying emissions are a vertical integral here would imply that planes are only flying up and down ! Anyway, I will leave with either or definition (you'll just have to explain what the "tendency" one mean to non-chemists...) Best Pierre On 22/09/2010 17:28, Cameron-smith, Philip wrote: Hi All, Even if the dataset doesn't have vertical information, if it includes aircraft emissions then the physical quantity it is quantifying is the vertical integral rather than the surface emission. In which case I would favour tendency_of_atmosphere_mass_content_ If there are no aircraft in the data, then do smoke stacks produce 'surface emissions'? An interesting question that could be debated. Hence, another advantage of tendency_of_atmosphere_mass_content_ is that it makes the question moot. BTW, FWIW, I note that the closest related standard name already in the table specifies the downward direction (surface_downward_mass_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon). On a different note, I like Alison's distinction between tendency_of_atmosphere_mass_content_of_..._due_to_anthropogenic_emission and surface_upward_mass_flux_of_..._due_to_anthropogenic_emission Perhaps we should cross-reference such standard names in their descriptions to help future users? Best wishes, Philip Dr Philip Cameron-Smith, p...@llnl.gov, Lawrence Livermore Nat. Lab. -Original Message- From: cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu [mailto:cf-metadata- boun...@cgd.ucar.edu] On Behalf Of Pierre Friedlingstein Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 6:01 AM To: alison.pamm...@stfc.ac.uk Cc: cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] CMIP5 carbon cycle standard names Alison, I see your point. As far as I know the anthropogenic emissions data will be surface fluxes. Data are based on country level consumption of fossil fuel, they don't have the info on where in the air it is released... Pierre On 22/09/2010 13:04, alison.pamm...@stfc.ac.uk wrote: Hi Pierre, My thinking here was that 'anthropegenic emissions' (which presumably include fossil fuel emissions) and 'fossil fuel' emissions themselves do not necessarily always occur at the earth's surface. For example, emissions from tall chimneys and aircraft may occur at many levels in the atmosphere. It was not clear to me that these particular quantities in the CMIP5 tables are intended only to account for surface emissions. If that is the case, then we certainly need to make it clear and I agree with your suggestion to label them as surface fluxes. So instead of introducing tendency_of_atmosphere_mass_content_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_car bo n_due_to_anthropogenic_emission; kg m-2 s-1 tendency_of_atmosphere_mass_content_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_car bo n_due_to_emission_from_fossil_fuel_combustion; kg m-2 s-1 I will add surface_upward_mass_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon_due_to_ an thropogenic_emission; kg m-2 s-1 surface_upward_mass_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon_due_to_ em ission_from_fossil_fuel_combustion; kg m-2 s-1. OK? Best wishes, Alison -- Alison Pamment Tel: +44 1235 778065 NCAS/British Atmospheric Data CentreFax: +44 1235 446314 Rutherford Appleton Laboratory Email: alison.pamm...@stfc.ac.uk Chilton, Didcot, OX11 0QX, U.K. -Original Message- From: Pierre Friedlingstein [mailto:p.friedlingst...@exeter.ac.uk] Sent: 21 September 2010 16:41 To: Pamment, Alison (STFC,RAL,SSTD) Cc: j.m.greg...@reading.ac.uk; cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] CMIP5 carbon cycle standard names Hi Alison, Just wondering, why are the first two variables below named as "tendency_of_atmosphere_mass_content_of..." while all others are named as "surfac
Re: [CF-metadata] CMIP5 carbon cycle standard names
Alison, I see your point. As far as I know the anthropogenic emissions data will be surface fluxes. Data are based on country level consumption of fossil fuel, they don't have the info on where in the air it is released... Pierre On 22/09/2010 13:04, alison.pamm...@stfc.ac.uk wrote: Hi Pierre, My thinking here was that 'anthropegenic emissions' (which presumably include fossil fuel emissions) and 'fossil fuel' emissions themselves do not necessarily always occur at the earth's surface. For example, emissions from tall chimneys and aircraft may occur at many levels in the atmosphere. It was not clear to me that these particular quantities in the CMIP5 tables are intended only to account for surface emissions. If that is the case, then we certainly need to make it clear and I agree with your suggestion to label them as surface fluxes. So instead of introducing tendency_of_atmosphere_mass_content_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbo n_due_to_anthropogenic_emission; kg m-2 s-1 tendency_of_atmosphere_mass_content_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbo n_due_to_emission_from_fossil_fuel_combustion; kg m-2 s-1 I will add surface_upward_mass_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon_due_to_an thropogenic_emission; kg m-2 s-1 surface_upward_mass_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon_due_to_em ission_from_fossil_fuel_combustion; kg m-2 s-1. OK? Best wishes, Alison -- Alison Pamment Tel: +44 1235 778065 NCAS/British Atmospheric Data CentreFax: +44 1235 446314 Rutherford Appleton Laboratory Email: alison.pamm...@stfc.ac.uk Chilton, Didcot, OX11 0QX, U.K. -----Original Message----- From: Pierre Friedlingstein [mailto:p.friedlingst...@exeter.ac.uk] Sent: 21 September 2010 16:41 To: Pamment, Alison (STFC,RAL,SSTD) Cc: j.m.greg...@reading.ac.uk; cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] CMIP5 carbon cycle standard names Hi Alison, Just wondering, why are the first two variables below named as "tendency_of_atmosphere_mass_content_of..." while all others are named as "surface_upward_mass_flux_of_ ..." Any reason ? I know the "tendency..." is used for other chemical species... But here for CO2 variables, I think intra-consistency should be favoured. No ? Best Pierre On 21/09/2010 13:40, alison.pamm...@stfc.ac.uk wrote: Dear Jonathan and Pierre, Thank you both for your comments on the CMIP5 carbon cycle names. Looking back through this thread I think we have resolved all the outstanding issues and so the following names are now accepted for inclusion in the standard name table: tendency_of_atmosphere_mass_content_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_car bo n_due_to_anthropogenic_emission; kg m-2 s-1 tendency_of_atmosphere_mass_content_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_car bo n_due_to_emission_from_fossil_fuel_combustion; kg m-2 s-1 surface_upward_mass_flux_of_carbon_due_to_natural_emission; kg m- 2 s-1 atmosphere_mass_of_carbon_dioxide; kg carbon_content_of_products_of_land_use_change; kg m-2 surface_upward_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon_due_to_emiss io n_from_fires_excluding_land_use_change; kg m-2 s-1 surface_upward_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon_due_to_emiss io n_from_grazing; kg m-2 s-1 surface_upward_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon_due_to_emiss io n_from_crop_harvesting; kg m-2 s-1 surface_net_upward_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon_due_to_e mi ssion_from_anthropogenic_land_use_change; kg m-2 s-1 surface_net_downward_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon_due_to _p hotosynthesis_and_respiration_and_fires_including_land_use_change; kg m-2 s-1 carbon_flux_into_soil_from_litter; kg m-2 s-1 carbon_flux_into_soil_from_vegetation_excluding_litter; kg m-2 s-1 leaf_carbon_content; kg m-2 wood_carbon_content; kg m-2 root_carbon_content; kg m-2 carbon_content_of_miscellaneous_living_matter; kg m-2 (N.B. 'miscellaneous' means carbon content of living matter apart from those individually named in the preceding three items) wood_debris_carbon_content; kg m-2 surface_litter_carbon_content; kg m-2 subsurface_litter_carbon_content; kg m-2 fast_soil_pool_carbon_content; kg m-2 medium_soil_pool_carbon_content; kg m-2 slow_soil_pool_carbon_content; kg m-2 surface_upward_carbon_flux_due_to_plant_respiration_for_biomass_growth ; kg m-2 s-1 surface_upward_carbon_flux_due_to_plant_respiration_for_biomass_mainte na nce; kg m-2 s-1 net_primary_productivity_of_carbon_accumulated_in_leaves; kg m-2 s-1 net_primary_productivity_of_carbon_accumulated_in_wood; kg m-2 s-1 net_primary_productivity_of_carbon_accumulated_in_roots; kg m-2 s-1 surface_ne
Re: [CF-metadata] CMIP5 carbon cycle standard names
Hi Alison, Just wondering, why are the first two variables below named as "tendency_of_atmosphere_mass_content_of..." while all others are named as "surface_upward_mass_flux_of_ ..." Any reason ? I know the "tendency..." is used for other chemical species... But here for CO2 variables, I think intra-consistency should be favoured. No ? Best Pierre On 21/09/2010 13:40, alison.pamm...@stfc.ac.uk wrote: Dear Jonathan and Pierre, Thank you both for your comments on the CMIP5 carbon cycle names. Looking back through this thread I think we have resolved all the outstanding issues and so the following names are now accepted for inclusion in the standard name table: tendency_of_atmosphere_mass_content_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbo n_due_to_anthropogenic_emission; kg m-2 s-1 tendency_of_atmosphere_mass_content_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbo n_due_to_emission_from_fossil_fuel_combustion; kg m-2 s-1 surface_upward_mass_flux_of_carbon_due_to_natural_emission; kg m-2 s-1 atmosphere_mass_of_carbon_dioxide; kg carbon_content_of_products_of_land_use_change; kg m-2 surface_upward_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon_due_to_emissio n_from_fires_excluding_land_use_change; kg m-2 s-1 surface_upward_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon_due_to_emissio n_from_grazing; kg m-2 s-1 surface_upward_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon_due_to_emissio n_from_crop_harvesting; kg m-2 s-1 surface_net_upward_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon_due_to_emi ssion_from_anthropogenic_land_use_change; kg m-2 s-1 surface_net_downward_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon_due_to_p hotosynthesis_and_respiration_and_fires_including_land_use_change; kg m-2 s-1 carbon_flux_into_soil_from_litter; kg m-2 s-1 carbon_flux_into_soil_from_vegetation_excluding_litter; kg m-2 s-1 leaf_carbon_content; kg m-2 wood_carbon_content; kg m-2 root_carbon_content; kg m-2 carbon_content_of_miscellaneous_living_matter; kg m-2 (N.B. 'miscellaneous' means carbon content of living matter apart from those individually named in the preceding three items) wood_debris_carbon_content; kg m-2 surface_litter_carbon_content; kg m-2 subsurface_litter_carbon_content; kg m-2 fast_soil_pool_carbon_content; kg m-2 medium_soil_pool_carbon_content; kg m-2 slow_soil_pool_carbon_content; kg m-2 surface_upward_carbon_flux_due_to_plant_respiration_for_biomass_growth; kg m-2 s-1 surface_upward_carbon_flux_due_to_plant_respiration_for_biomass_maintena nce; kg m-2 s-1 net_primary_productivity_of_carbon_accumulated_in_leaves; kg m-2 s-1 net_primary_productivity_of_carbon_accumulated_in_wood; kg m-2 s-1 net_primary_productivity_of_carbon_accumulated_in_roots; kg m-2 s-1 surface_net_downward_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon_due_to_p hotosynthesis_and_respiration_and_fires_excluding_land_use_change; kg m-2 s-1. To cope with the various fractional vegetation coverage quantities we will use the existing standard name area_fraction and introduce new entries of primary_evergreen_trees, secondary_deciduous_trees, secondary_evergreen_trees, C3_plant_functional_types, C4_plant_functional_types into the area_type table. Best wishes, Alison -- Alison Pamment Tel: +44 1235 778065 NCAS/British Atmospheric Data CentreFax: +44 1235 446314 Rutherford Appleton Laboratory Email: alison.pamm...@stfc.ac.uk Chilton, Didcot, OX11 0QX, U.K. <>___ CF-metadata mailing list CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata
Re: [CF-metadata] CMIP5 carbon cycle standard names
Again, OK for me. On 17/09/2010 13:26, Jonathan Gregory wrote: Sorry, one other one which Pierre didn't remark on. This name is rather obscure, even bizarre :-) miscellaneous_living_compartments_carbon_content I wonder if we could convey this meaning any more plainly? What about carbon_content_of_miscellaneous_living_matter ? Jonathan <>___ CF-metadata mailing list CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata
Re: [CF-metadata] CMIP5 carbon cycle standard names
Fine for me! Cheers Pierre On 17/09/2010 13:20, Jonathan Gregory wrote: Dear Alison and Pierre I have one late comment on these C-cycle names, about this one: 1) products_of_land_use_change_carbon_content From the discussion I understand what it means and it is well-defined. However as an English phrase I found it opaque. Although not quite systematic, would it be OK to turn it round, making it carbon_content_of_products_of_land_use_change There are other instances where we have alternative syntaxes X_Y and Y_of_X, depending on how long X is! The difficulty with understanding the above phrase is that it is unclear how much of it "products_of" applies to. Best wishes Jonathan <>___ CF-metadata mailing list CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata
