Re: CFMail alternative
Russ, I think you have missed my point. There are thousands of posts on the Adobe Forums, where people have documented that they have some issue or another, where often they haven't even tried to dig down to the true core of those issues. There are many times where someone says this doesn't work, and place the blame in the wrong direction. I'm not saying that this is the case here, I'm just saying that, in my experience these problems typically exist outside of the application server. Not saying there aren't hiccups, or that things have always been perfect, but I am saying this requires full examination before pointing fingers. I am also saying that, personally, I have always discovered that these issues are not in the app server, but in some external system or process. Steve 'Cutter' Blades Adobe Community Professional Adobe Certified Expert Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer http://cutterscrossing.com Co-Author Learning Ext JS 3.2 Packt Publishing 2010 https://www.packtpub.com/learning-ext-js-3-2-for-building-dynamic-desktop-style-user-interfaces/book The best way to predict the future is to help create it On 4/5/2013 12:00 PM, Russ Michaels wrote: Steve, I think you have missed the point. Other people do have this issue and have had this issue, it is documented on the Adobe forums, as I have mentioned, so it is not a one off co-occurrence, as an Adobe Community Professional, I would have thought you would use the Adobe forums and be aware of common issues. Many more people could be having this issue than documented or realised simply because they are not aware of the missing emails. Your scenario is unique to you, it doesn't apply to every one else. We for example run servers with hundreds of websites, all sending emails to different destinations, we have absolutely no idea if any of those emails do not get sent and no way to tell unless a client tells us, and they would have no way to know unless someone tells them. On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 3:45 PM, Steve 'Cutter' Blades cold.fus...@cutterscrossing.com wrote: You would think that's the case, but it really wasn't. Ours was a lead generation system for sales people. When leads were submitted on the sites (2000+), they were cataloged in the db, available in an admin interface, and emailed to the salespeople, or their CRM systems, etc. If the client saw a lead in the admin that was not received by them, or their CRM, they were very quick to raise the flag, because that would mean they might be losing leads (and potential sales). So, while we might not have been notified of every instance, it's unlikely that there were very many we wouldn't have heard about. We experienced issues. But, in the end, each issue could be explained. One time the systems team changed the IP address of the SMTP server. My boss had originally configured the mail settings in the servers with IPs instead of domain names. It took 5 hours to respool all of the messages. Another time one client stopped receiving all comms from their site. Turns out they had their email hosted through a third party, and the IP of our SMTP server had been blacklisted because of another client doing bulk emailers. That same blacklist was used by multiple mail service providers. Steve 'Cutter' Blades Adobe Community Professional Adobe Certified Expert Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer http://cutterscrossing.com Co-Author Learning Ext JS 3.2 Packt Publishing 2010 https://www.packtpub.com/learning-ext-js-3-2-for-building-dynamic-desktop-style-user-interfaces/book The best way to predict the future is to help create it On 4/5/2013 6:50 AM, Russ Michaels wrote: Dozens is literally nothing out of 800k per day. Imagine saying you are aware of every tv show on every channel, every day, how would you know of a glitch or disruption in any of those programmes unless you are watching them all or someone tells you. Even if someone told you about a couple of channels, there are hundreds of others you are still unaware of. The chances of you being aware of or told of every missing email when you send large qualtities is almost impossible. So anyone certainly could have this issue without realising. I am not saying that you do have this issue, simply that you could. If you check the Adobe forums you will see those other reports I mentioned of this same issue. Regards Russ Michaels www.michaels.me.uk www.cfmldeveloper.com - Free CFML hosting for developers www.cfsearch.com - CF search engine On Apr 5, 2013 11:30 AM, Steve 'Cutter' Blades cold.fus...@cutterscrossing.com wrote: I've had dozens of reports of missing mail, and it has always come down to something other than CF. The email address was wrong, the SMTP server was down, the domain of the sender had been blacklisted, something along these kind of lines. Steve 'Cutter' Blades Adobe Community Professional Adobe
Re: CFMail alternative
it has been shown on all the reported instances I saw that the mails in question never reached the smtp server as did not show in the mail logs on the server despite cf saying hey were sent, and were not in undelivered folder, they simply vanished. I'm afraid I can't think of any better ways to explain it, and I don't really have the time or inclination to go trudging through the forums trying to prove it to you, so a non believer you must remain. Regards Russ Michaels www.michaels.me.uk www.cfmldeveloper.com - Free CFML hosting for developers www.cfsearch.com - CF search engine On Apr 6, 2013 6:05 PM, Steve 'Cutter' Blades cold.fus...@cutterscrossing.com wrote: Russ, I think you have missed my point. There are thousands of posts on the Adobe Forums, where people have documented that they have some issue or another, where often they haven't even tried to dig down to the true core of those issues. There are many times where someone says this doesn't work, and place the blame in the wrong direction. I'm not saying that this is the case here, I'm just saying that, in my experience these problems typically exist outside of the application server. Not saying there aren't hiccups, or that things have always been perfect, but I am saying this requires full examination before pointing fingers. I am also saying that, personally, I have always discovered that these issues are not in the app server, but in some external system or process. Steve 'Cutter' Blades Adobe Community Professional Adobe Certified Expert Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer http://cutterscrossing.com Co-Author Learning Ext JS 3.2 Packt Publishing 2010 https://www.packtpub.com/learning-ext-js-3-2-for-building-dynamic-desktop-style-user-interfaces/book The best way to predict the future is to help create it On 4/5/2013 12:00 PM, Russ Michaels wrote: Steve, I think you have missed the point. Other people do have this issue and have had this issue, it is documented on the Adobe forums, as I have mentioned, so it is not a one off co-occurrence, as an Adobe Community Professional, I would have thought you would use the Adobe forums and be aware of common issues. Many more people could be having this issue than documented or realised simply because they are not aware of the missing emails. Your scenario is unique to you, it doesn't apply to every one else. We for example run servers with hundreds of websites, all sending emails to different destinations, we have absolutely no idea if any of those emails do not get sent and no way to tell unless a client tells us, and they would have no way to know unless someone tells them. On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 3:45 PM, Steve 'Cutter' Blades cold.fus...@cutterscrossing.com wrote: You would think that's the case, but it really wasn't. Ours was a lead generation system for sales people. When leads were submitted on the sites (2000+), they were cataloged in the db, available in an admin interface, and emailed to the salespeople, or their CRM systems, etc. If the client saw a lead in the admin that was not received by them, or their CRM, they were very quick to raise the flag, because that would mean they might be losing leads (and potential sales). So, while we might not have been notified of every instance, it's unlikely that there were very many we wouldn't have heard about. We experienced issues. But, in the end, each issue could be explained. One time the systems team changed the IP address of the SMTP server. My boss had originally configured the mail settings in the servers with IPs instead of domain names. It took 5 hours to respool all of the messages. Another time one client stopped receiving all comms from their site. Turns out they had their email hosted through a third party, and the IP of our SMTP server had been blacklisted because of another client doing bulk emailers. That same blacklist was used by multiple mail service providers. Steve 'Cutter' Blades Adobe Community Professional Adobe Certified Expert Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer http://cutterscrossing.com Co-Author Learning Ext JS 3.2 Packt Publishing 2010 https://www.packtpub.com/learning-ext-js-3-2-for-building-dynamic-desktop-style-user-interfaces/book The best way to predict the future is to help create it On 4/5/2013 6:50 AM, Russ Michaels wrote: Dozens is literally nothing out of 800k per day. Imagine saying you are aware of every tv show on every channel, every day, how would you know of a glitch or disruption in any of those programmes unless you are watching them all or someone tells you. Even if someone told you about a couple of channels, there are hundreds of others you are still unaware of. The chances of you being aware of or told of every missing email when you send large qualtities is almost impossible.
Re: CFMail alternative
it has been shown on all the reported instances I saw that the mails in question never reached the smtp server as did not show in the mail logs on the server despite cf saying hey were sent, and were not in undelivered folder, they simply vanished. So if you have one log file that says CF sent the message successfully, and another log file that says that your mail server didn't receive a message, why do you assume that the mail server log is right and the CF log is wrong? I mean, there's a big difference between just failing to deliver a message, and both failing to deliver a message but also logging that the message was sent! I can think of one case where I've run into a similar issue, and the root case was a spam filtering measure on the recipient server. CF said it had been sent, but the recipient system (Postini) did not list it. It turned out to be a feature in Postini called Blatant Spam Blocking which caused the incoming message to be dropped and not delivered or even logged by Postini. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:355300 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: CFMail alternative
Where is the like button in here :-) Sendt fra min iPad Den 6. apr. 2013 kl. 21:23 skrev Dave Watts dwa...@figleaf.com: it has been shown on all the reported instances I saw that the mails in question never reached the smtp server as did not show in the mail logs on the server despite cf saying hey were sent, and were not in undelivered folder, they simply vanished. So if you have one log file that says CF sent the message successfully, and another log file that says that your mail server didn't receive a message, why do you assume that the mail server log is right and the CF log is wrong? I mean, there's a big difference between just failing to deliver a message, and both failing to deliver a message but also logging that the message was sent! I can think of one case where I've run into a similar issue, and the root case was a spam filtering measure on the recipient server. CF said it had been sent, but the recipient system (Postini) did not list it. It turned out to be a feature in Postini called Blatant Spam Blocking which caused the incoming message to be dropped and not delivered or even logged by Postini. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:355301 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
