Re: Custom search engine

[Dave Watts]

> So, this is why I keep pushing the spidering idea. I understand I may give up 
> some fine-
> grained control over the index but, given the limited budget, a spider 
> approach that can
> generate a Verity index seems the best way to stay within their budget.

Well, maybe you can use the Verity spider, although I still think you
could get where you want by querying the database directly. You'll
need to have your site respond as localhost for the spider to work.
Alternatively, you could use a tool like wget to fetch all of your
pages as HTML, then index those files and rewrite the URLs. But that's
going to be a bit of a pain to update.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on
GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite.

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Re: Custom search engine

[Dave Burns]

Dave -

An issue is that there is not a 1:1 correspondence between database entries and 
pages. I actually think the database aspect of dynamically creating pages is 
not the big issue. The majority of the issue is that this site is not well 
structured and has a web of include files and custom tags that are each 
included on multiple pages under certain conditions. The site is old and was 
never designed as a whole: they have a very limited budget so they make changes 
incrementally - we've all seen where this approach leads.

So, this is why I keep pushing the spidering idea. I understand I may give up 
some fine-grained control over the index but, given the limited budget, a 
spider approach that can generate a Verity index seems the best way to stay 
within their budget.

In spite of the above, I remain open to alternative approaches and very much 
appreciate the suggestions made on this thread.

- Dave


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Re: Custom search engine

[Dave Watts]

> I've spent the evening reading doc for Verity and Googling for info but it 
> still seems my
> take is right. Verity can index static files or database query results but 
> not dynamically
> generated HTML. The content of my client's site is complex enough that 
> indexing
> database query results doesn't map well to dynamic pages. The right tool 
> seems to be
> a spider but then what to do with the spider's results?

Indexing database query results should work out very nicely, actually,
even with a complex site - especially with a complex site! You're
using the database to build the contents of your pages, right? In the
same way, you can use the database to build the contents of your
index. You simply have to have a way to build a URL that will let the
search user get to the page that corresponds to the search result.

> I can think of a hack where the spider creates a shadow directory tree of the 
> real
> content and then I cfindex that but tell cfindex the URLprefix of the 
> original tree. Any
> thoughts on feasibility?

I think it would be much easier and more reliable to simply use
CFINDEX against your database queries. This isn't that hard to do, and
I'm sure there are some online tutorials somewhere.

Using the database queries directly has a big advantage over using a
spider - it's easy to exclude meaningless content from searches. For
example, when you spider content, the spider gets all the content -
navigation, headers/footers, etc.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on
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Re: Custom search engine

[Kevin Pepperman]

addn: you also need QueryAddRow(indexQuery) on each iteration-- I forgot
that in the example.

-- 
/Kevin Pepperman

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin


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Re: Custom search engine

[Kevin Pepperman]

I am in the process of learning this as well (BlueDragon/Lucene), so I can
help you get started.
It was a hurdle for me too, so hopefully everyone can benefit from what I
have learned from this.
CF is basically the same methods, only it uses Verity.

You can do a query index that gives you the exact same results as an HTML
spider does if you want.
Even better really, since you can control what is actually indexed.
Instead of every item on the page being indexed, you can just grab the
content you need.
We used the HTML spider-- and did not like the results so we create our
indexes dynamically locally, then upload the index.
The main hurdle is getting the query to provide you with exactly the
information you need-- since you are limited to 1 query field in the BODY of
the cfindex tag, you do need to do some fancy footwork to get that field to
contain all the information you need.

What I do when I need to index multiple fields is to create a query that
contains all the fields from the products tables combined into 1 query
grouped by the SKU and the attributes.
Then I create a new query using the fields that cfindex needs.


I then loop over my products query combining the fields that I need indexed
into the fields I need. concat them with VAR & " " & VAR setting BODY in the
dynamic query to all those fields.
After you build the new query, the BODY will contain all the fields you
need-- The only thing to watch out for is to make sure "KEY" is a unique
variable so you only index each item once.

You can also do grouped query's and nest the output so you can have a SHIRT
with multiple SIZES etc... As along as it is combined into the BODY field in
the dynamic query it will be added to the index.

This is not complete.. but its the basics.

1 warning-- TEST LOCALLY!! and don't try to do a cfsearch in the same script
as the one you are creating the collection.
You can create a race condition in multi threaded server that can freeze
resources and the JVM.
Also, I find it fastest to delete the collection each time I test instead
of updating it.
You also should consider creating indexes locally then uploading them
complete, this is pretty intensive on huge datasets.

--
This is a good UDF to have too.
http://www.cflib.org/udf/collectionExists

//---CODE -//
indexQuery =
QueryNew("KEY,URLPATH,TITLE,CATEGORY,BODY,CUSTOM1,CUSTOM2,CUSTOM3,CUSTOM4");



QuerySetCell(indexQuery, "BODY",  mydata.DESCRIPTION & " " &
mydata.CATEGORY & " " & mydata.TYPE & " " & mydata.OTHER));
 QuerySetCell(indexQuery, "KEY", mydata.SKU);// HAS TO BE UNIQUE TO THIS
INDEXED row
QuerySetCell(indexQuery, "URLPATH", mydata.URL);
 QuerySetCell(indexQuery, "TITLE", mydata.TITLE & " " & mydata.GARMENT & " "
& mydata.COLOR);
QuerySetCell(indexQuery, "CATEGORY", "RETAIL");
 QuerySetCell(indexQuery, "CUSTOM1", mydata.TCODE);
QuerySetCell(indexQuery, "CUSTOM2", mydata.PRICE);
 QuerySetCell(indexQuery, "CUSTOM3", mydata.GARMENT);
QuerySetCell(indexQuery, "CUSTOM4", mydata.SIZE);



Then you can just pass the dynamic query to Index and it will use your
combined BODY and custom fields..


//---E/O CODE -//

-- 
/Kevin Pepperman

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin


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Re: Custom search engine

[Dave Burns]

Dave -

I've spent the evening reading doc for Verity and Googling for info but it 
still seems my take is right. Verity can index static files or database query 
results but not dynamically generated HTML. The content of my client's site is 
complex enough that indexing database query results doesn't map well to dynamic 
pages. The right tool seems to be a spider but then what to do with the 
spider's results?

I can think of a hack where the spider creates a shadow directory tree of the 
real content and then I cfindex that but tell cfindex the URLprefix of the 
original tree. Any thoughts on feasibility?

-Dave


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Re: Custom search engine

[Dave Watts]

> This is where my inexperience with Verity comes in and hopefully one of you 
> can help.
> If I point the cfindex tag at the root of my client's web site, it will index 
> the contents of
> the .cfm files, not the HTML they generate - correct? So, if I can't use 
> Verity's own
> spider, I need to use a different one. There are tons of spiders out there 
> but I'm not sure
> what format they need to output to generate an index for Verity. Anyone know 
> the
> answer?

You don't need to use a spider at all. Read the documentation for
CFINDEX using database content. The typical approach is to use CFINDEX
to index database queries, then use a field of the query to act as
(all or part of) the URL you're going to serve.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/

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Re: Custom search engine

[Dave Burns]

[This is veering slightly off the original topic so let me know if I should 
start another thread.]

CrystalTech has gotten back to me and they support Verity. My client is on a 
shared hosting plan so CT supports the cfcollection and cfindex tags but not 
the Verity spider. (The spider is only supported for VPS customers since shared 
hosting customers aren't allowed to use the cfexecute tag.)

This is where my inexperience with Verity comes in and hopefully one of you can 
help. If I point the cfindex tag at the root of my client's web site, it will 
index the contents of the .cfm files, not the HTML they generate - correct? So, 
if I can't use Verity's own spider, I need to use a different one. There are 
tons of spiders out there but I'm not sure what format they need to output to 
generate an index for Verity. Anyone know the answer?

Dave


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Re: Custom search engine

[Dave Burns]

I had contacted CrystalTech in parallel and it turns out they do support it out 
of the box but it's not clear they support the Verity spider. I'm sorting it 
all out via support emails with them now so I'll post back if/when I have it 
all worked out.


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Re: Custom search engine

[Kevin Pepperman]

It looks like CrystalTech supports verity search. I cannot see any reason
they would not support it.

Maybe all it takes is to let them know you need it.

http://help.webcontrolcenter.com/KB/a271/adding-verity-collection-to-a-coldfusion-site.aspx?KBSearchID=76929
-- 
/Kevin Pepperman

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin


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Re: Custom search engine

[Maureen]

Are they opposed to all web based search engines, or only Google.  If
the latter, Bing might be an option.

On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Dave Burns  wrote:
>
> I have a customer who would like a search function for his web-site but does 
> not want to use Google's custom search service. They use shared hosting 
> (CrystalTech) that does not offer Verity or Solr (I believe this is true but 
> am confirming with them).

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Re: Custom search engine

[Kevin Pepperman]

Verity or Lucene work pretty well-- though it does take some time to wrap
your head around how you go about get complex data indexed.

But once you understand it it is very customizable.

cfcollection, cfindex, and cfsearch are all you need to build a fairly
robust search engine with stemming as well as allowing (AND NOT OR and
wildcard(*) ) style of searches.

http://livedocs.adobe.com/coldfusion/8/htmldocs/help.html?content=Tags_c_09.html

-- 
/Kevin Pepperman

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin


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Re: Custom search engine

[Gerald Guido]

There are a couple search tools on RIAForge

http://listpages.riaforge.org/
http://goat.riaforge.org/
http://seeker.riaforge.org/

I have not used these. The second two require you to create Java Objects and
most shared hosts don't allow that.

FWIW, I did some research on SQL server 05 a while back and it has some
powerful search tools.  IIRC It requires full text search to enabled so I am
not sure if this functionality will be available to you. I got pulled from
the project before I could implement anything but what I do remember was
that that it had some pretty impressive search capabilities.

G!


On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 5:36 PM, Dave Burns  wrote:

>
> Thanks, Barney.
>
> I've used MySQL's FULLTEXT capabilities in the past with good success. I
> should clarify that we're using SQL Server 2008. I think that has some
> similar abilities. I agree though that the overall approach is not ideal.
> I'm hoping someone has a combo of some spidering scripts I'd run with a cron
> job and then a CFC for the search functionality. I have a strong feeling
> that's a looong shot.
>
> Dave
>
>
> 

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Re: Custom search engine

[Dave Burns]

Thanks, Barney.

I've used MySQL's FULLTEXT capabilities in the past with good success. I should 
clarify that we're using SQL Server 2008. I think that has some similar 
abilities. I agree though that the overall approach is not ideal. I'm hoping 
someone has a combo of some spidering scripts I'd run with a cron job and then 
a CFC for the search functionality. I have a strong feeling that's a looong 
shot.

Dave


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Re: Custom search engine

[Barney Boisvert]

MySQL has decent (not stellar, not terrible) FULLTEXT indexing
capabilities.  It's not going to give you web indexing, just database
indexing, but that might be sufficient if the content to search is
simple and stored the right way.  If you wanted to go really low tech,
you could use wget to spider the site and load the pages into a MySQL
database to do FULLTEXT searches against.

Note that I don't consider this anything even approaching a good
solution, but it IS a potential solution since it appears that
many/most of the good ones have been ruled out.

cheers,
barneyb

On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Dave Burns  wrote:
>
> I have a customer who would like a search function for his web-site but does 
> not want to use Google's custom search service. They use shared hosting 
> (CrystalTech) that does not offer Verity or Solr (I believe this is true but 
> am confirming with them).
>
> Given those constraints, does anyone here know of an alternative? I 
> understand the complexity of the problem so I'm not 100% surprised I've found 
> nothing with a little Googling around.
>
> Thanks,
> Dave
>
>
> 

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Custom search engine

[Dave Burns]

I have a customer who would like a search function for his web-site but does 
not want to use Google's custom search service. They use shared hosting 
(CrystalTech) that does not offer Verity or Solr (I believe this is true but am 
confirming with them). 

Given those constraints, does anyone here know of an alternative? I understand 
the complexity of the problem so I'm not 100% surprised I've found nothing with 
a little Googling around.

Thanks,
Dave


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Implementing a Google Custom Search Engine

[Larry Lyons]

Hi all,

I thought I'd start at HOF first with this question. Has anyone implemented the 
Google Custom Search Engine Business Edition on a web site? I'm not entirely 
sure where to start and I'd appreciate any suggestions. 

thx,
larry 

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RE: Google's Custom Search engine for CF & web development

[Joshua Cyr]

In goggles CSE you have to specify each site separately.  So you can point
to those aggregators, but to really work you need to add the sites
individually (or submit an xml doc with them listed). It would be very cool
to point to those sites and tell google to add any sites they link to one
level deep, which I think they are going to add at some point, but can't do
it yet.

-Original Message-
From: Andy Matthews [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 4:48 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Google's Custom Search engine for CF & web development

Or fullasagoog.com



-Original Message-
From: Neil Middleton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 3:27 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Google's Custom Search engine for CF & web development


Why not just add feed-squirrel.com and get them all?

On 11/2/06, Rick Root <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> You should also have it search blogs for folks like Ben, Ray, Tim, 
> Simon, etc and cflex.net would be nice too.
>
> Rick



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RE: Google's Custom Search engine for CF & web development

[Andy Matthews]

Or fullasagoog.com



-Original Message-
From: Neil Middleton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 3:27 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Google's Custom Search engine for CF & web development


Why not just add feed-squirrel.com and get them all?

On 11/2/06, Rick Root <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> You should also have it search blogs for folks like Ben, Ray, Tim,
> Simon, etc and cflex.net would be nice too.
>
> Rick

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Re: Google's Custom Search engine for CF & web development

[Neil Middleton]

Why not just add feed-squirrel.com and get them all?

On 11/2/06, Rick Root <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> You should also have it search blogs for folks like Ben, Ray, Tim,
> Simon, etc and cflex.net would be nice too.
>
> Rick
>
> 

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Re: Google''''s Custom Search engine for CF & web development

[Joshua Cyr]

I just rejoined cf-talk after a long break and the first message I see is about 
my blog and www.CFHunt.com  What are the odds? ;-)

Seriously though, anyone wanting to contribute as a member and add sites to 
cfhunt is more than welcome!  In additoin send me your 125x125 ads of your open 
source project or community resource site and I will put the banner up for free.

Right now there is a link to volunteer, but I am not sure how well it works.  
Googles CSE is still beta after all.  If you sign up that way make sure to put 
your name or something down, and not sign up as anonymous. 

If you don't want to sign up as a contributor but you do want to suggest a site 
(your site, blog, etc) then feel free to email me.  Send it to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] if you would, as I would like to keep my emails coordinated if at 
all possible.

Oh, and who searched for 'poop' just now? lol.

>Looks like you're nine days too slow...
>http://www.usefulconcept.com/index.cfm/2006/10/24/CFHunt--coldfusion-search-engine
>http://www.cfhunt.com
>
>:)
>
>>  Mark

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Re: Google''s Custom Search engine for CF & web development

[Peter Boughton]

Looks like you're nine days too slow...
http://www.usefulconcept.com/index.cfm/2006/10/24/CFHunt--coldfusion-search-engine
http://www.cfhunt.com

:)

>Hi Folks
>I just set up one of those new Google Co-op "Custom Search Engines" for
>CF and javascript (DHTML, DOM, etc):
>
>   
>http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=011257526413916725596%3Aayerfqdweyg
>
>It's weak at this point, but I figure I'm not the only one who thought
>of doing this, so I'm definitely open to collaboration with others (or
>just using yours if it's better).
>
>I don't know if Google will provide a nicer way to link to it, of if
>they will offer integration with the Google toolbar for quicker access
>to the search.
>
>FYI
>
>   Mark

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RE: Google's Custom Search engine for CF & web development

[Gaulin, Mark]

I usually do more searching about javascript, DHTML and DOM-related
things, so I don't use a lot of CF sites regularly enough to list them
out.  Do you have urls for the blogs you mentioned, or do you want
access to add sites yourself? You need a Google account (like a gmail
account or something like that) to do any admin...

(http://www.houseoffusion.com is and cflex are now in)

Thanks
Mark


-Original Message-
From: Rick Root [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 12:03 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Google's Custom Search engine for CF & web development

You should also have it search blogs for folks like Ben, Ray, Tim,
Simon, etc and cflex.net would be nice too.

Rick



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Re: Google's Custom Search engine for CF & web development

[Rick Root]

You should also have it search blogs for folks like Ben, Ray, Tim, 
Simon, etc and cflex.net would be nice too.

Rick

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Re: Google's Custom Search engine for CF & web development

[Rick Root]

Gaulin, Mark wrote:
> Hi Folks
> I just set up one of those new Google Co-op "Custom Search Engines" for
> CF and javascript (DHTML, DOM, etc):
>   
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=011257526413916725596%3Aayerfqdweyg

Why the heck doesn't it search houseoffusion.com? =)

There's no better resource on the web for coldfusion help!

rick

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Google's Custom Search engine for CF & web development

[Gaulin, Mark]

Hi Folks
I just set up one of those new Google Co-op "Custom Search Engines" for
CF and javascript (DHTML, DOM, etc):


http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=011257526413916725596%3Aayerfqdweyg

It's weak at this point, but I figure I'm not the only one who thought
of doing this, so I'm definitely open to collaboration with others (or
just using yours if it's better).

I don't know if Google will provide a nicer way to link to it, of if
they will offer integration with the Google toolbar for quicker access
to the search.

FYI

Mark

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