Re: Flash for Developers/Programmers WAS: Flash Remoting with Blue Dragon
On Thursday 15 Jan 2004 15:54 pm, Christian Cantrell wrote: > On Thursday, January 15, 2004, at 10:14 AM, Thomas Chiverton wrote: > > A version of Central that allowed you to specify your own application > > 'store' > > would be great ! > > We've actually heard this a lot I thought you might have. In theory I can't see it being too hard*. The meta-shell looks at a start-up parameter (ini file, registry, whatever) to find the URL of somewhere to download all the shell set-up stuff from - I would be thinking XML based descriptions of where the list of applications is, for instance, and then initilises the Central shell itself with those params. -- Tom Chiverton Advanced ColdFusion Programmer Tel: +44(0)1749 834997 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] BlueFinger Limited Underwood Business Park Wookey Hole Road, WELLS. BA5 1AF Tel: +44 (0)1749 834900 Fax: +44 (0)1749 834901 web: www.bluefinger.com Company Reg No: 4209395 Registered Office: 2 Temple Back East, Temple Quay, BRISTOL. BS1 6EG. *** This E-mail contains confidential information for the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately. You should not use, disclose, distribute or copy this communication if received in error. No binding contract will result from this e-mail until such time as a written document is signed on behalf of the company. BlueFinger Limited cannot accept responsibility for the completeness or accuracy of this message as it has been transmitted over public networks.*** [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Flash for Developers/Programmers WAS: Flash Remoting with Blue Dragon
On Thursday 15 Jan 2004 15:29 pm, Clint Tredway wrote: > The shared shell has kept me from using Central because the apps that I > build cannot be shared for security reasons.. I would expect any decent shared shell to enfore strict sepeartion of apps, so that shouldn't be an issue... -- Tom Chiverton Advanced ColdFusion Programmer Tel: +44(0)1749 834997 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] BlueFinger Limited Underwood Business Park Wookey Hole Road, WELLS. BA5 1AF Tel: +44 (0)1749 834900 Fax: +44 (0)1749 834901 web: www.bluefinger.com Company Reg No: 4209395 Registered Office: 2 Temple Back East, Temple Quay, BRISTOL. BS1 6EG. *** This E-mail contains confidential information for the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately. You should not use, disclose, distribute or copy this communication if received in error. No binding contract will result from this e-mail until such time as a written document is signed on behalf of the company. BlueFinger Limited cannot accept responsibility for the completeness or accuracy of this message as it has been transmitted over public networks.*** [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Flash for Developers/Programmers WAS: Flash Remoting with Blue Dragon
On Thursday, January 15, 2004, at 10:14 AM, Thomas Chiverton wrote: > A version of Central that allowed you to specify your own application > 'store' > would be great ! We've actually heard this a lot and it has given us some ideas. It's great feedback. Thanks. Christian [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Flash for Developers/Programmers WAS: Flash Remoting with Blue Dragon
The shared shell has kept me from using Central because the apps that I build cannot be shared for security reasons.. Clint Thomas Chiverton wrote: > On Thursday 15 Jan 2004 15:02 pm, Bryan F. Hogan wrote: > > application. Not a shared shell. I think others may feel the same way. > > :nods > A version of Central that allowed you to specify your own application > 'store' > would be great ! > > -- > Tom Chiverton > Advanced ColdFusion Programmer > > Tel: +44(0)1749 834997 > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > BlueFinger Limited > Underwood Business Park > Wookey Hole Road, WELLS. BA5 1AF > Tel: +44 (0)1749 834900 > Fax: +44 (0)1749 834901 > web: www.bluefinger.com > Company Reg No: 4209395 Registered Office: 2 Temple Back East, Temple > Quay, BRISTOL. BS1 6EG. > *** This E-mail contains confidential information for the addressee > only. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us > immediately. You should not use, disclose, distribute or copy this > communication if received in error. No binding contract will result from > this e-mail until such time as a written document is signed on behalf of > the company. BlueFinger Limited cannot accept responsibility for the > completeness or accuracy of this message as it has been transmitted over > public networks.*** > [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Flash for Developers/Programmers WAS: Flash Remoting with Blue Dragon
On Thursday 15 Jan 2004 15:02 pm, Bryan F. Hogan wrote: > application. Not a shared shell. I think others may feel the same way. :nods A version of Central that allowed you to specify your own application 'store' would be great ! -- Tom Chiverton Advanced ColdFusion Programmer Tel: +44(0)1749 834997 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] BlueFinger Limited Underwood Business Park Wookey Hole Road, WELLS. BA5 1AF Tel: +44 (0)1749 834900 Fax: +44 (0)1749 834901 web: www.bluefinger.com Company Reg No: 4209395 Registered Office: 2 Temple Back East, Temple Quay, BRISTOL. BS1 6EG. *** This E-mail contains confidential information for the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately. You should not use, disclose, distribute or copy this communication if received in error. No binding contract will result from this e-mail until such time as a written document is signed on behalf of the company. BlueFinger Limited cannot accept responsibility for the completeness or accuracy of this message as it has been transmitted over public networks.*** [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
RE: Flash for Developers/Programmers WAS: Flash Remoting with Blue Dragon
Central will do it, however they have access to other peoples applications. My clients are my clients and they stay in my bubble. I want them to click on say an intranet icon on their computer and open my application. Not a shared shell. I think others may feel the same way. -Original Message- From: Christian Cantrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 9:58 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Flash for Developers/Programmers WAS: Flash Remoting with Blue Dragon On Wednesday, January 14, 2004, at 11:07 AM, Bryan F. Hogan wrote: I recommend that anyone considering this type of approach look very seriously at Central. In most circumstances, it's much more practical than projectors since you get a lot of great built-in functionality like auto-update, installation management and notifications. Christian _ [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Flash for Developers/Programmers WAS: Flash Remoting with Blue Dragon
On Wednesday, January 14, 2004, at 11:07 AM, Bryan F. Hogan wrote: > What I want to do is > replicate, my existing intranet's in flash, create a projector, install > it on a users desktop and automatically pull data from my server, no > html, no dhtml, no _javascript_, etc. Multiple clients, one app. I recommend that anyone considering this type of approach look very seriously at Central. In most circumstances, it's much more practical than projectors since you get a lot of great built-in functionality like auto-update, installation management and notifications. Christian [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
RE: Flash for Developers/Programmers WAS: Flash Remoting with Blue Dragon
I'm not complaining. I'm done. If I never used a Flash application I can't write new components for it. -Original Message- From: Thomas Chiverton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 11:14 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Flash for Developers/Programmers WAS: Flash Remoting with Blue Dragon On Wednesday 14 Jan 2004 16:07 pm, Bryan F. Hogan wrote: > In this case, RIA's are required 100%. This can be done, but there is > just more work to do with a getting a flash form to work like an html > form than it's worth at the moment. Rather than complain, why not set about writing some updated components for Flash ? [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Flash for Developers/Programmers WAS: Flash Remoting with Blue Dragon
On Wednesday 14 Jan 2004 16:07 pm, Bryan F. Hogan wrote: > In this case, RIA's are required 100%. This can be done, but there is > just more work to do with a getting a flash form to work like an html > form than it's worth at the moment. Rather than complain, why not set about writing some updated components for Flash ? -- Tom Chiverton Advanced ColdFusion Programmer Tel: +44(0)1749 834997 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] BlueFinger Limited Underwood Business Park Wookey Hole Road, WELLS. BA5 1AF Tel: +44 (0)1749 834900 Fax: +44 (0)1749 834901 web: www.bluefinger.com Company Reg No: 4209395 Registered Office: 2 Temple Back East, Temple Quay, BRISTOL. BS1 6EG. *** This E-mail contains confidential information for the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately. You should not use, disclose, distribute or copy this communication if received in error. No binding contract will result from this e-mail until such time as a written document is signed on behalf of the company. BlueFinger Limited cannot accept responsibility for the completeness or accuracy of this message as it has been transmitted over public networks.*** [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
RE: Flash for Developers/Programmers WAS: Flash Remoting with Blue Dragon
I agree with most of what your saying however. What I want to do is replicate, my existing intranet's in flash, create a projector, install it on a users desktop and automatically pull data from my server, no html, no dhtml, no _javascript_, etc. Multiple clients, one app. I don't build websites, they suck. I build applications. In this case, RIA's are required 100%. This can be done, but there is just more work to do with a getting a flash form to work like an html form than it's worth at the moment. -Original Message- From: Clint Tredway [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 11:02 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Flash for Developers/Programmers WAS: Flash Remoting with Blue Dragon Flash apps have their place, and they are not websites. For example, I just rebuilt my companies intranet that was Classic ASP/DHTML to Flash MX 2004/CFMX with the frontend all being flash. Now, these are financial tools and CRM tools, client tracking, and the like and the ASP/DHTML version was a huge pain to maintain where the flash one is much easier. I did build a way to narrow list/drop downs while you type(this was huge) a _javascript_ version was available, but it was a huge pain. Also, the GUI is much easier to use than a HTML GUI, but this is not a 'website'. These are specific applications that definitely needed a 'richer' interface than a traditional website. As for speed of development, I can build a flash form app much quicker than I can a HTML form app... its drag/drop hook some listenters and have my CFC's process the data coming in... but Flash RIA's are not needed for everything. I could not have given my customers(other employee's) what they wanted in an application without flash this time around... my 2 cents... [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Flash for Developers/Programmers WAS: Flash Remoting with Blue Dragon
Flash apps have their place, and they are not websites. For example, I just rebuilt my companies intranet that was Classic ASP/DHTML to Flash MX 2004/CFMX with the frontend all being flash. Now, these are financial tools and CRM tools, client tracking, and the like and the ASP/DHTML version was a huge pain to maintain where the flash one is much easier. I did build a way to narrow list/drop downs while you type(this was huge) a _javascript_ version was available, but it was a huge pain. Also, the GUI is much easier to use than a HTML GUI, but this is not a 'website'. These are specific applications that definitely needed a 'richer' interface than a traditional website. As for speed of development, I can build a flash form app much quicker than I can a HTML form app... its drag/drop hook some listenters and have my CFC's process the data coming in... but Flash RIA's are not needed for everything. I could not have given my customers(other employee's) what they wanted in an application without flash this time around... my 2 cents... Bryan F. Hogan wrote: > No, I know you didn't mean to discourage anyone. I'm just scared to > death to pick up flash, because I have a feeling that the simple things > that take moments to do in html will take a huge amount of time or be > impossible to do in Flash. For example, allot of my clients love the > ability to upload files, download excel spreadsheets, etc. It takes a > few moments to plug this into my html apps, however the upload component > for flash would need integration. There is no way that I know of to > embed the excel spread sheet into the site like I can with IE. The same > thing goes with PDF files. How fast can a select box that when you type > the results are narrowed. Can you easily highlight a string of search > result keywords, etc. All this can be done in Flash if not natively by a > 3-party component, but not as quick as can be done in html. > > > Basically it comes down to, that I feel by picking up Flash it would > take us back-in-time. Have to learn the basic things all over again. For > example, is it possible to change the flash form look and feel via css? > Can I quickly change the entire look of my application from a css file > and not have to go in and edit the component code just to change the > color. > > > Flash Remoting to me is a sore spot because the connector has to be > setup on each new website instance, it's not done automatically. And to > get it on their we have to run the connector script on all sites and not > just the one that is needed. If I built an application on flash remoting > a requirement would have to be the user that installs it having flash > remoting installed. And if they have problems with that, they call me. > Not good. With SOAP, those problems are gone. Maybe it's just me and > that SOAP makes more since to me. It's automatic, no muss, no fuss. > > > Sorry for the long post, it's just one of my sore spots, I really want > to be able to extend my applications beyond the browser, however for > some of the reasons above, I hesitate to do so. Right now it's kind of > seems more work than it's worth. > > > Flex is a great idea, but how can that be browser-less, how can that sit > on a users desktop? Like regular flash and soap can. > > > Thanks for the offer to help, I have much more time to spend sniffing > around the bush if you know what I mean before I start. :-) > > -Original Message- > From: Christian Cantrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 9:10 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: Flash for Developers/Programmers WAS: Flash Remoting with > Blue Dragon > > I certainly didn't intend to discourage the use of Flash! I think > these types of issues are to be expected when working with such new > technology. Fortunately, if you know where to look, you can learn from > other people's experience and avoid most of the frustration. > > If you decide to have a go at it, I can probably help you with any > issues you run into. And I should probably clarify that I have written > several Flash/CF applications that integrate through SOAP and work > great. There are just a couple of issues to watch out for. > > Christian > [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
RE: Flash for Developers/Programmers WAS: Flash Remoting with Blue Dragon
No, I know you didn't mean to discourage anyone. I'm just scared to death to pick up flash, because I have a feeling that the simple things that take moments to do in html will take a huge amount of time or be impossible to do in Flash. For example, allot of my clients love the ability to upload files, download excel spreadsheets, etc. It takes a few moments to plug this into my html apps, however the upload component for flash would need integration. There is no way that I know of to embed the excel spread sheet into the site like I can with IE. The same thing goes with PDF files. How fast can a select box that when you type the results are narrowed. Can you easily highlight a string of search result keywords, etc. All this can be done in Flash if not natively by a 3-party component, but not as quick as can be done in html. Basically it comes down to, that I feel by picking up Flash it would take us back-in-time. Have to learn the basic things all over again. For example, is it possible to change the flash form look and feel via css? Can I quickly change the entire look of my application from a css file and not have to go in and edit the component code just to change the color. Flash Remoting to me is a sore spot because the connector has to be setup on each new website instance, it's not done automatically. And to get it on their we have to run the connector script on all sites and not just the one that is needed. If I built an application on flash remoting a requirement would have to be the user that installs it having flash remoting installed. And if they have problems with that, they call me. Not good. With SOAP, those problems are gone. Maybe it's just me and that SOAP makes more since to me. It's automatic, no muss, no fuss. Sorry for the long post, it's just one of my sore spots, I really want to be able to extend my applications beyond the browser, however for some of the reasons above, I hesitate to do so. Right now it's kind of seems more work than it's worth. Flex is a great idea, but how can that be browser-less, how can that sit on a users desktop? Like regular flash and soap can. Thanks for the offer to help, I have much more time to spend sniffing around the bush if you know what I mean before I start. :-) -Original Message- From: Christian Cantrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 9:10 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Flash for Developers/Programmers WAS: Flash Remoting with Blue Dragon I certainly didn't intend to discourage the use of Flash! I think these types of issues are to be expected when working with such new technology. Fortunately, if you know where to look, you can learn from other people's experience and avoid most of the frustration. If you decide to have a go at it, I can probably help you with any issues you run into. And I should probably clarify that I have written several Flash/CF applications that integrate through SOAP and work great. There are just a couple of issues to watch out for. Christian [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Flash for Developers/Programmers WAS: Flash Remoting with Blue Dragon
On Tuesday, January 13, 2004, at 01:22 PM, Bryan F. Hogan wrote: > Everytime I'm about ready to pick up on using Flash something else > tells > me not too. SOAP and Flash almost had me convinced on starting to use > Flash, then I hear something like this. I certainly didn't intend to discourage the use of Flash! I think these types of issues are to be expected when working with such new technology. Fortunately, if you know where to look, you can learn from other people's experience and avoid most of the frustration. If you decide to have a go at it, I can probably help you with any issues you run into. And I should probably clarify that I have written several Flash/CF applications that integrate through SOAP and work great. There are just a couple of issues to watch out for. Christian [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Flash for Developers/Programmers WAS: Flash Remoting with Blue Dragon
Such is life. It is generally a requirement to be familiar with any two technologies that one wants to integrate before attempting to integrate them. Flash and CFML is no different. I always got around my lack of Flash experience by just hiring the best Flash people I could find. -Matt On Jan 13, 2004, at 1:22 PM, Bryan F. Hogan wrote: > > 3. I have found Flash Remoting and AMF to be more robust than the > web > > service implementations I have used. I have forced myself to use web > > services in newer projects rather than Flash Remoting just to get the > > experience, and I have found bugs in both the Flash implementation > and > > > in Apache Axis which caused a lot of frustration and would have been > > avoided if I had used Flash Remoting. So far, I have not run into > any > > > significant bugs with Flash Remoting that I can recall. > > > Everytime I'm about ready to pick up on using Flash something else > tells > me not too. SOAP and Flash almost had me convinced on starting to use > Flash, then I hear something like this. > [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Flash for Developers/Programmers WAS: Flash Remoting with Blue Dragon
> 3. I have found Flash Remoting and AMF to be more robust than the web > service implementations I have used. I have forced myself to use web > services in newer projects rather than Flash Remoting just to get the > experience, and I have found bugs in both the Flash implementation and > in Apache Axis which caused a lot of frustration and would have been > avoided if I had used Flash Remoting. So far, I have not run into any > significant bugs with Flash Remoting that I can recall. Everytime I'm about ready to pick up on using Flash something else tells me not too. SOAP and Flash almost had me convinced on starting to use Flash, then I hear something like this. [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
