RE: OT But Urgent - Knock CF if you dare
Thanks Mike, I got some more info. The Rival company is slating CF by saying it is not as secure as ASP. I am not gonna fling Mud but the client was looking for some independent reviews. Any one got info on CF security V ASP Security? Cheers D -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 06 April 2001 00:12 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: OT But Urgent - Knock CF if you dare Here are a couple of useful URL's http://www.webreview.com/2000/09_01/developers/09_01_00_1.shtml This is Microsoft's take on CFAS http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?URL=/library/periodic/peri od00 /coldfusion.htm Kind Regards - Mike Brunt Macromedia Consulting Tel 562.243.6255 Fax 401.696.4335 http://www.allaire.com/services/consulting/ -Original Message- From: Daryl Fullerton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 2:04 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: OT But Urgent - Knock CF if you dare Hi all, We use a little bit of ASP with CF from time to time. We are pitching for a contract whereby the opposition are slating CF big time. In actual fact they are saying all sorts of bad things about CF to the client in an effort to get the client to move to ASP. Any Amunition out there i can fire back with. I dont normally slate ASP but they have started this. Articles would be good... Appreciate the help Cheers D Daryl Fullerton, Managing Partner, BizNet Solutions, Allaire Premier Partner (Ireland) 133 - 137 Lisburn Road Belfast BT9 7AG N.Ireland Direct +44 (0) 28 9022 7888 Tel +44 (0) 028 9022 3224 Fax +44 (0) 028 9022 3223 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Http://www.BizNet-Solutions.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chairman) Http://www.cfug.ie The Irish Cold Fusion User Group ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: OT But Urgent - Knock CF if you dare
This is going to sound annoyingly familiar, but: Most security holes in ColdFusion are not the product of ColdFusion, but faults of the underlying webserver (e.g. IIS), and this is not going to change between ASP and ColdFusion. Apart from that (and maybe a side note about Netegrity), I think this is really THE SAME DISCUSSION AS SCALABILITY -- it's not the language that is insecure, it's the code and architecture you build with it. If you're letting SQL statement parameters come through the URL without checking them first, if you're not filtering your form data, if you aren't preventing users from running includes directly, then your application is insecure in both ASP and ColdFusion. I could go on and on about this, but since pages and pages have been generated over the scalibility issue, and since I really think it's the exact same issue, and since the song is inherently boring to the choir, I'll stop. But go through the list archive and look at the scalability discussion, particularly at Doug Nottage's and Dave Watt's posts on this which I think were very good. Then tell your client the most important question is not what is the better language. It's who is the better firm. Michael Caulfield -Original Message- From: Daryl Fullerton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 3:51 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: OT But Urgent - Knock CF if you dare Thanks Mike, I got some more info. The Rival company is slating CF by saying it is not as secure as ASP. I am not gonna fling Mud but the client was looking for some independent reviews. Any one got info on CF security V ASP Security? Cheers D -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 06 April 2001 00:12 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: OT But Urgent - Knock CF if you dare Here are a couple of useful URL's http://www.webreview.com/2000/09_01/developers/09_01_00_1.shtml This is Microsoft's take on CFAS http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?URL=/library/periodic/peri od00 /coldfusion.htm Kind Regards - Mike Brunt Macromedia Consulting Tel 562.243.6255 Fax 401.696.4335 http://www.allaire.com/services/consulting/ -Original Message- From: Daryl Fullerton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 2:04 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: OT But Urgent - Knock CF if you dare Hi all, We use a little bit of ASP with CF from time to time. We are pitching for a contract whereby the opposition are slating CF big time. In actual fact they are saying all sorts of bad things about CF to the client in an effort to get the client to move to ASP. Any Amunition out there i can fire back with. I dont normally slate ASP but they have started this. Articles would be good... Appreciate the help Cheers D Daryl Fullerton, Managing Partner, BizNet Solutions, Allaire Premier Partner (Ireland) 133 - 137 Lisburn Road Belfast BT9 7AG N.Ireland Direct +44 (0) 28 9022 7888 Tel +44 (0) 028 9022 3224 Fax +44 (0) 028 9022 3223 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Http://www.BizNet-Solutions.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chairman) Http://www.cfug.ie The Irish Cold Fusion User Group ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT But Urgent - Knock CF if you dare
Daryl,
Here's my take on the issue , taken from another list:
johnnyb wrote:
Is there any resources comparing these 3 server models - ASP, CF and JSP? What would
be the
main advantages/disadvantages of each?
Johnny,
Unless you're strongly into Visual Basic Script or JavaScript, CF is
easier to use and learn. For instance, to do a simple query in ASP, it
takes about 10 to 20 lines to query the database and then output the
information to a web page. In contrast CF can do the exact same task in
6 to 8 lines. ColdFusion is easier to use, less cryptic and more
powerful. If you know HTML you know about most of what it takes to code
a basic Cold Fusion Page. In contrast ASP has a much steeper learning
curve.
There's a pretty good review of Cold Fusion at
http://www.zdnet.com/products/stories/reviews/0,4161,402300,00.html
In the same set they also compare other technologies.
Compare how long does it take the average developer to set up a database
enabled site in CF, ASP or whatever. CF is much more of a rapid
development environment and considerably more efficient and
understandable. For example, the following ASP script connects to a
database and outputs the results to a browser:
%
Set OBJdbConnection =
Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection")
OBJdbConnection.Open "nba_membership"
SQLQuery = "Select id, business FROM Directory"
Set RSCustomers = OBJdbConnection.Execute(SQLQuery)
Do Until rsCustomers.EOF
Response.Write (rsCustomers("ID") " " rsCustomers("Business"))
rsCustomers.MoveNext
Loop
%
The same code in ColdFusion looks like this:
cfquery name="rsCustomers" datasource="nba_membership"
select id, business from directory
/cfquery
cfoutput query="rsCustomers"#id# #business#/cfoutput
ASP take 9 lines to query the database and return the results to the
browser, CF does it in 4. Both snippets do the exact same thing, but the
ColdFusion code does it more elegantly and far more simply. It uses
fewer commands, and those commands make a lot more sense. It doesn't
take a genius to figure out what cfquery and cfoutput do. The ASP is
a lot less intuitive. Also CF has integrated POP and SMTP mail
components, is fully integrated with LDAP, and has a native search
engine built into it based on the very powerful Verity97 search engine.
Elsewhere in this newsgroup some have been asking how to set up a
search. In CF its fully integrated into the server. You typically have
to pay extra for those components with ASP.
The result is that developers take far less time to develop an effective
and usable site. When you are paying developers $65 per hour or more to
develop the site, if a CF developer can set up the site in 6 hours vs.
18 or more for ASP or whatever, then you've paid for the ColdFusion
server with the money you've saved in a very short time.
Owen Palmer wrote:
ASP servers are easier to find an often less expensive to host then CFML,
JSP servers seem to be as rare as rocking horse shit, though I could be
looking in the wrong place...
Keep looking Owen. CF sites are as cheap to host as ASP sites, cheaper
if you consider the number of security holes that ASP introduces to your
server. There are free ColdFusion hosting companies, such as
http://www.cfm-resources.com/. There are also some very low cost ones
like http://www.Shanje.com or http://icn.net/, both of which charge
around $15 to $25 for CF hosting.
Additionally CF works with Unix, Linux (all flavors apparently, but I
have not tested it yet), and NT. You need expensive add-ons to get ASP
to work with Unix. The last I heard Linux has no ASP support
There are several versions of the Cold Fusion Server - the FREE
ColdFusion Express, ColdFusion Professional for $1200, and the $3000
ColdFusion Enterprise Server. The version of the CF Server that comes
with UltraDev is the single user development version of CF Enterprise.
Remember too that cost of ownership is a significant factor. With longer
development times, more security concerns, etc., the cost of ownership
is far higher for ASP than CF. I'm going to focus here on development
costs.
Lets say you costing an ASP or CF programmer at $65 an hour. They are
developing 2 dynamic sites that do the exact same thing. The CF
programmer will probably take less than half the amount of time to
deliver a site than the ASP person, everything else considered equal -
remember the 4 lines vs 9 lines of code? And at $65 per hour, that's a
significantly lower cost to the client who is paying the bills.
ASP(VBScript) is also probably easiest to pick up if your not from a
programming background.
I think I've covered that one already. ASP can be quite obscure and
difficult to understand especially to newbies. Consider this output
snippet again:
Do Until rsCustomers.EOF
Response.Write (rsCustomers("ID") " " rsCustomers("Business"))
rsCustomers.MoveNext
Loop
%
This loops through the output dataset and displays it onscreen. For a
new learner
OT But Urgent - Knock CF if you dare
Hi all, We use a little bit of ASP with CF from time to time. We are pitching for a contract whereby the opposition are slating CF big time. In actual fact they are saying all sorts of bad things about CF to the client in an effort to get the client to move to ASP. Any Amunition out there i can fire back with. I dont normally slate ASP but they have started this. Articles would be good... Appreciate the help Cheers D Daryl Fullerton, Managing Partner, BizNet Solutions, Allaire Premier Partner (Ireland) 133 - 137 Lisburn Road Belfast BT9 7AG N.Ireland Direct +44 (0) 28 9022 7888 Tel +44 (0) 028 9022 3224 Fax +44 (0) 028 9022 3223 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Http://www.BizNet-Solutions.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chairman) Http://www.cfug.ie The Irish Cold Fusion User Group ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: OT But Urgent - Knock CF if you dare
Here are a couple of useful URL's http://www.webreview.com/2000/09_01/developers/09_01_00_1.shtml This is Microsoft's take on CFAS http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?URL=/library/periodic/period00 /coldfusion.htm Kind Regards - Mike Brunt Macromedia Consulting Tel 562.243.6255 Fax 401.696.4335 http://www.allaire.com/services/consulting/ -Original Message- From: Daryl Fullerton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 2:04 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: OT But Urgent - Knock CF if you dare Hi all, We use a little bit of ASP with CF from time to time. We are pitching for a contract whereby the opposition are slating CF big time. In actual fact they are saying all sorts of bad things about CF to the client in an effort to get the client to move to ASP. Any Amunition out there i can fire back with. I dont normally slate ASP but they have started this. Articles would be good... Appreciate the help Cheers D Daryl Fullerton, Managing Partner, BizNet Solutions, Allaire Premier Partner (Ireland) 133 - 137 Lisburn Road Belfast BT9 7AG N.Ireland Direct +44 (0) 28 9022 7888 Tel +44 (0) 028 9022 3224 Fax +44 (0) 028 9022 3223 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Http://www.BizNet-Solutions.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chairman) Http://www.cfug.ie The Irish Cold Fusion User Group ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT But Urgent - Knock CF if you dare
Give these FUD tactics the attention they deserve - none. Talk to your potential client about the things that you have done with CF. That's what will be relevant for your client. Also, ask the competitor to substantiate their claims. Take the high ground, and refuse to mud sling. By throwing mud back, you are lowered to their level, and there is no differentiation between the two of you. Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/05/01 02:03PM Hi all, We use a little bit of ASP with CF from time to time. We are pitching for a contract whereby the opposition are slating CF big time. In actual fact they are saying all sorts of bad things about CF to the client in an effort to get the client to move to ASP. Any Amunition out there i can fire back with. I dont normally slate ASP but they have started this. Articles would be good... Appreciate the help Cheers D Daryl Fullerton, Managing Partner, BizNet Solutions, Allaire Premier Partner (Ireland) 133 - 137 Lisburn Road Belfast BT9 7AG N.Ireland Direct +44 (0) 28 9022 7888 Tel +44 (0) 028 9022 3224 Fax +44 (0) 028 9022 3223 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.BizNet-Solutions.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chairman) http://www.cfug.ie The Irish Cold Fusion User Group ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
