Re: CF8 Ent Instances
On Thursday 21 Jun 2007, John Mason wrote: you may want to read up on your agreements. You may be legally required to follow points such as these. Yeah, I think I posed the VISA requirements the other week. -- Tom Chiverton Helping to apprehensively participate leading-edge design-patterns on: http://thefalken.livejournal.com This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at St James's Court Brown Street Manchester M2 2JF. A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by the Law Society. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents. If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 8008. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com. ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:281880 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: CF8 Ent Instances
Mike Chabot wrote: On 6/20/07, John Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a side note, putting a database server on the same box is a bad move. The web server and database server should be separate to obtain the best in security and utilization of your hardware. I believe this statement is more true for MS SQL Server than it is for MySQL. At least that is what a couple MySQL experts Can those experts elaborate on why they believe that to be so? Do they have names? Jochem ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:281757 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: CF8 Ent Instances
On Thursday 21 Jun 2007, Jochem van Dieten wrote: As a side note, putting a database server on the same box is a bad move. The web server and database server should be separate to obtain the best in security and utilization of your hardware. I believe this statement is more true for MS SQL Server than it is for MySQL. At least that is what a couple MySQL experts Can those experts elaborate on why they believe that to be so? Do they have names? I would have though it was obvious. MySQL eats less resources than MS SQL, so it's more able to co-exist with a web server than MS SQL given the same hardware and loading. -- Tom Chiverton Helping to globally visualize killer markets on: http://thefalken.livejournal.com This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at St James's Court Brown Street Manchester M2 2JF. A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by the Law Society. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents. If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 8008. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com. ~| Macromedia ColdFusion MX7 Upgrade to MX7 experience time-saving features, more productivity. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJW Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:281765 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: CF8 Ent Instances
It may chew up less resources, but that doesn't get around the security issues. Every 'expert' I've ever spoken with on this would agree with putting the db on a separate box, behind the firewall, and without direct access to the net, utilizing full authenticated-only access from specific sources within the internal lan, and typically on a non-standard port. MySQL is exceptional, and I use it for nearly all private development, but the only time I use it on the same machine as CF is in my local development environment. Steve Cutter Blades Adobe Certified Professional Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer _ http://blog.cutterscrossing.com Tom Chiverton wrote: On Thursday 21 Jun 2007, Jochem van Dieten wrote: As a side note, putting a database server on the same box is a bad move. The web server and database server should be separate to obtain the best in security and utilization of your hardware. I believe this statement is more true for MS SQL Server than it is for MySQL. At least that is what a couple MySQL experts Can those experts elaborate on why they believe that to be so? Do they have names? I would have though it was obvious. MySQL eats less resources than MS SQL, so it's more able to co-exist with a web server than MS SQL given the same hardware and loading. ~| ColdFusion 8 beta â Build next generation applications today. Free beta download on Labs http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs_adobecf8_beta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:281766 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: CF8 Ent Instances
Assuming the data is important and needs to be secure, then you are correct. However, not all data is important. The server these guys were describing was unlikely to have anything remotely sensitive on it, which is why they were comfortable running everything on one box. I should have clarified that. Their point was they ran a site with heavy traffic and didn't see their server get bogged down due to the database use, like many SQL Server sites experience, because MySQL uses fewer system resources than SQL Server. They were also running PHP on Unix. -Mike Chabot On 6/21/07, Cutter (CFRelated) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It may chew up less resources, but that doesn't get around the security issues. Every 'expert' I've ever spoken with on this would agree with putting the db on a separate box, behind the firewall, and without direct access to the net, utilizing full authenticated-only access from specific sources within the internal lan, and typically on a non-standard port. ~| Create Web Applications With ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2. Build powerful, scalable RIAs. Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJS Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:281773 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: CF8 Ent Instances
On security, I want to be clear here about this. I understand people like to play fast and loose with these things, but when setting up a server configuration, you should always 'assume' the data is important and needs to be secure. Even if you know for a fact that it isn't. Why say it this way. Well a developer could change this situation very easily. Even if the data is not important today. Some day down the road a developer could alter a table and start inserting credit card info or other critical data. The developer may not realize or be on the same page as the sys admin that set up the server. Now you have a problem. On system resources, the same holds true. You can easily run MySQL on a low traffic web server, but things can change very easily. It's best the plan for the worse. It'll save you a lot of headaches down the road. John [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Mike Chabot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 10:22 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF8 Ent Instances Assuming the data is important and needs to be secure, then you are correct. However, not all data is important. The server these guys were describing was unlikely to have anything remotely sensitive on it, which is why they were comfortable running everything on one box. I should have clarified that. Their point was they ran a site with heavy traffic and didn't see their server get bogged down due to the database use, like many SQL Server sites experience, because MySQL uses fewer system resources than SQL Server. They were also running PHP on Unix. -Mike Chabot On 6/21/07, Cutter (CFRelated) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It may chew up less resources, but that doesn't get around the security issues. Every 'expert' I've ever spoken with on this would agree with putting the db on a separate box, behind the firewall, and without direct access to the net, utilizing full authenticated-only access from specific sources within the internal lan, and typically on a non-standard port. ~| ColdFusion 8 beta â Build next generation applications today. Free beta download on Labs http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs_adobecf8_beta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:281790 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: CF8 Ent Instances
On Thursday 21 Jun 2007, Cutter (CFRelated) wrote: issues. Every 'expert' I've ever spoken with on this would agree with putting the db on a separate box, behind the firewall, and without direct access to the net, utilizing full authenticated-only access from specific sources within the internal lan, and typically on a non-standard port. That's massive overkill for most people's applications, I expect. -- Tom Chiverton Helping to dynamically participate compelling information on: http://thefalken.livejournal.com This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at St James's Court Brown Street Manchester M2 2JF. A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by the Law Society. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents. If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 8008. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com. ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:281788 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: CF8 Ent Instances
Tom Chiverton wrote: On Thursday 21 Jun 2007, Jochem van Dieten wrote: As a side note, putting a database server on the same box is a bad move. The web server and database server should be separate to obtain the best in security and utilization of your hardware. I believe this statement is more true for MS SQL Server than it is for MySQL. At least that is what a couple MySQL experts Can those experts elaborate on why they believe that to be so? Do they have names? I would have though it was obvious. MySQL eats less resources than MS SQL, so it's more able to co-exist with a web server than MS SQL given the same hardware and loading. The security issues with a db on the same server as CF are the same between MySQL and MS SQL Server and after testing MySQL I do not find its ability to deal with load self-evident at all: http://tweakers.net/reviews/649/6 Jochem ~| Create Web Applications With ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2. Build powerful, scalable RIAs. Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJS Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:281798 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: CF8 Ent Instances
issues. Every 'expert' I've ever spoken with on this would agree with putting the db on a separate box, behind the firewall ... That's massive overkill for most people's applications, I expect. As is running multiple instances of CF8. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| ColdFusion 8 beta â Build next generation applications today. Free beta download on Labs http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs_adobecf8_beta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:281797 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: CF8 Ent Instances
Just as an example, a lot of merchant account agreements now specifically call for these types of security procedures. So if you're doing e-commerce, you may want to read up on your agreements. You may be legally required to follow points such as these. John [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Tom Chiverton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 11:21 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF8 Ent Instances On Thursday 21 Jun 2007, Cutter (CFRelated) wrote: issues. Every 'expert' I've ever spoken with on this would agree with putting the db on a separate box, behind the firewall, and without direct access to the net, utilizing full authenticated-only access from specific sources within the internal lan, and typically on a non-standard port. That's massive overkill for most people's applications, I expect. -- Tom Chiverton Helping to dynamically participate compelling information on: http://thefalken.livejournal.com This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at St James's Court Brown Street Manchester M2 2JF. A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by the Law Society. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents. If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 8008. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com. ~| ColdFusion MX7 and Flex 2 Build sales marketing dashboard RIAâs for your business. Upgrade now http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2?sdid=RVJT Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:281807 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: CF8 Ent Instances
Definitely not the next myspace, one big site (the 600k/year) and the others are small blogs/wikis etc. Nothing over the 100k/year mark. I agree that the answer depends on the number of simultaneous users, how much RAM each application needs to function well, and other application-specific factors. If you run smallish sites, then you could probably install six instances of CF (if you really want me to pick a number), although I am uncertain as to what goal you are trying to achieve. Most people install one big instance. Your server specs are on the high-end range for a Web server, although they are in the medium range for a database server, considering the hard drive specs. I have seen high-traffic sites get by with less powerful hardware and not break a sweat. For most sites, access to external resources, like a database or Web service, are the primary bottlenecks. So my guess is that you will find your server will meet your needs, unless you are building the next MySpace.com. As a side note, putting a database server on the same box is a bad move. The web server and database server should be separate to obtain the best in security and utilization of your hardware. I believe this statement is more true for MS SQL Server than it is for MySQL. At least that is what a couple MySQL experts told me when I asked them a related question. I suppose it relates to the it depends answer. -Mike Chabot ~| Create Web Applications With ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2. Build powerful, scalable RIAs. Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJS Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:281809 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: CF8 Ent Instances
I hear that, unfortunately we don't have the option for another server, not for the first year anyways. This server is a test server to see how well CF holds up in our web environment. (I.e., I've had to fight hard to get the ok for CF). The one site (which gets 600k/year) is pretty much the only site I can't have offline if I do something wild to the server and crap it out for some reason. -Original Message- From: John Mason [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 3:08 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF8 Ent Instances Considering CF8 is still beta and we don't know the applications you are trying to run on this. The answer is it depends. As a side note, putting a database server on the same box is a bad move. The web server and database server should be separate to obtain the best in security and utilization of your hardware. John [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Jason Manaigre [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 1:18 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: CF8 Ent Instances Hi everyone, will be launching a new server soon, specs are: Server Dual Xeon Quad Core 1.6 Ghz (Clovertown E5310) Ram 4 GB ECC DDR2 SDRAM Hard Disk 4 x 74 GB 10K SATA Raptor RAID 5 (Adaptec Controller) Windows 2003 Server Standard CF8 Enterprise and MySQL5 on the same box until we can afford a second db server. The question is how many instances of CF can generally be run on this server config? Thanks everyone. ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:281808 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: CF8 Ent Instances
Considering CF8 is still beta and we don't know the applications you are trying to run on this. The answer is it depends. As a side note, putting a database server on the same box is a bad move. The web server and database server should be separate to obtain the best in security and utilization of your hardware. John [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Jason Manaigre [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 1:18 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: CF8 Ent Instances Hi everyone, will be launching a new server soon, specs are: Server Dual Xeon Quad Core 1.6 Ghz (Clovertown E5310) Ram 4 GB ECC DDR2 SDRAM Hard Disk 4 x 74 GB 10K SATA Raptor RAID 5 (Adaptec Controller) Windows 2003 Server Standard CF8 Enterprise and MySQL5 on the same box until we can afford a second db server. The question is how many instances of CF can generally be run on this server config? Thanks everyone. ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJQ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:281682 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: CF8 Ent Instances
On 6/20/07, John Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Considering CF8 is still beta and we don't know the applications you are trying to run on this. The answer is it depends. I agree that the answer depends on the number of simultaneous users, how much RAM each application needs to function well, and other application-specific factors. If you run smallish sites, then you could probably install six instances of CF (if you really want me to pick a number), although I am uncertain as to what goal you are trying to achieve. Most people install one big instance. Your server specs are on the high-end range for a Web server, although they are in the medium range for a database server, considering the hard drive specs. I have seen high-traffic sites get by with less powerful hardware and not break a sweat. For most sites, access to external resources, like a database or Web service, are the primary bottlenecks. So my guess is that you will find your server will meet your needs, unless you are building the next MySpace.com. As a side note, putting a database server on the same box is a bad move. The web server and database server should be separate to obtain the best in security and utilization of your hardware. I believe this statement is more true for MS SQL Server than it is for MySQL. At least that is what a couple MySQL experts told me when I asked them a related question. I suppose it relates to the it depends answer. -Mike Chabot ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:281749 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
