Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session)
> How does the Security tie with the MVC? Or should it not? Security is part of the application design. Whether the application is implemented using the MVC design pattern or not is pretty much irrelevant. What are you trying to ask? [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session)
> MVC is "just" a design pattern. I agree MVC is just a Design Pattern, it provides for seperation of application tiers, seperation of presentation from logic etc...Model - View - Controller. About 75% of the applications out there implement a "Security Model" and lets say the application uses an MVC. How does the Security tie with the MVC? Or should it not? Logically the Controller can intercept the request and ask a Security Module for Permission before allowing access to execute an event/action. If the above is the case, would you manipulate the controller to implement security? What if only 60% of the application is secure? How would you implement that? Perhaps "Security" can be handled independent of the MVC, but how? If it can be done, will you require all modules to implement security? Is Decentralized Security a clean approach? Joe Eugene - Original Message - From: "Sean Corfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 2:19 PM Subject: Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session) > > e.g. I dont know of any MVC's that provide a Security Module by default. > > MVC is "just" a design pattern. How would it provide a "Security > Module by default" since it is just a pattern? I think you're > confusing MVC with something else (but I can't really understand what, > based on the questions in your post). > > [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session)
By "MVC" do you mean "Model View Controller"? On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 11:22:54 -0700, Paul Kenney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Yes, they are. Thanks for tip, i was looking under "Jokes" ;) > > There ya go! Glad to be of service. :) > > > > -- > Paul Kenney > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- Paul Kenney [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session)
> Yes, they are. Thanks for tip, i was looking under "Jokes" ;) There ya go! Glad to be of service. :) -- Paul Kenney [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session)
> e.g. I dont know of any MVC's that provide a Security Module by default. MVC is "just" a design pattern. How would it provide a "Security Module by default" since it is just a pattern? I think you're confusing MVC with something else (but I can't really understand what, based on the questions in your post). [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session)
> FYI - I will soon be releasing a book that tackles a lot of these > queries. Neat! Is this book based on "Design Patterns" for Enterprise Development? Joe - Original Message - From: "Simon Horwith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 1:01 PM Subject: Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session) > FYI - I will soon be releasing a book that tackles a lot of these > queries. Can't say anything more at the moment... stay tuned! > > ~Simon > > Simon Horwith > CTO, eTRILOGY ltd. > Member of Team Macromedia > Macromedia Certified Master Instructor > http://www.cfstandards.org > > > > Joe Eugene wrote: > > > > sessions. If you really want to know about these things, first do > > > your homework and read a few books. > > > > I could probably tell you names of all the architecture books > > "Borders"/Barnes Nobles carries. > > Perhaps if you try to do some reasearch yourself into these topics, > > you will > > find a few conflicting > > development design patterns. Yes, there is are a TON of other research > > papers out there > > but nothing really that you could use to model Large Applications. > > > > Joe > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Paul Kenney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 1:31 AM > > Subject: Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session) > > > > > In general, I don't know if conferences are really where you will find > > > in-depth information on these topic. This is mainly because they are > > > not simple and do not fit within the short format of individual > > > sessions. If you really want to know about these things, first do > > > your homework and read a few books. Then when you get to the > > > conference, find your peers and discuss it in more detail with them. > > > See what others are doing and what they think about these topics. > > > > > > Sometimes you learn more between sessions than you do in all of them > > combined. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 22:19:27 -0700, Sean Corfield > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > I believe what we are looking for is a session on Enterprise > > Development > > > > > that includes MVC's, Sevice Oriented Architecture, Integrating > > legacy > > > > > systems etc > > > > > Basically routes to Architect Extensible Enterprise (ERP Like) > > Systems? > > > > > > > > I think you're more likely to find that sort of stuff at CFUN than > > > > MAX. The audience for MAX is very broad and MAX has to cater for a > > > > very large community that extends far beyond ColdFusion. Even CFUN > > > > caters for a very broad (ColdFusion) community. Things like SOA are > > > > not on most CFers' radars at the moment (and probably never will be). > > > > I accept their is a need for such topics somewhere but even from where > > > > I sit - as an enterprise architect - I would say that the audience for > > > > such topics is relatively small. > > > > > > > > Having said that, I'm very pleased to see interest in these topics > > > > here. It speaks volumes for the maturity of the CF community that such > > > > things are even being discussed. I'd love to see some sessions of this > > > > nature at CFUN-05... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session)
> incorrectly using the term MVC and I would recommend that you go and > brush up on the types of problems this particular pattern tries to > solve. You might be mis-understanding my comments on MVC's. Eventhough MVC's do NOT address these problems directly, they can be built to identify/solve common problems/tasks. e.g. I dont know of any MVC's that provide a Security Module by default. Take a look at SAP R3 Dispatcher Engine Architecture. > large-scale applications. Many of these books are hiding under the > categories of "Patterns" or "Software Engineering". Yes, they are. Thanks for tip, i was looking under "Jokes" ;) - Original Message - From: "Paul Kenney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 12:16 PM Subject: Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session) > Joe, > > First, you aren't going to find anything that shows you how to do any > of these things using MVC. The reason for this is that these types of > solutions general are the realm of the model. It seems that you are > incorrectly using the term MVC and I would recommend that you go and > brush up on the types of problems this particular pattern tries to > solve. > > It is true that you will not find much domain specific guides on the > architecture of different types of applications. There is a lot of > general and more useful information about how to design and build > large-scale applications. Many of these books are hiding under the > categories of "Patterns" or "Software Engineering". If you want a > list of books, I and others would be glad to help you out. > > On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 11:45:27 -0400, Joe Eugene <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > or online? There's plenty of material out there covering large scale > > > applications (just none for ColdFusion, of course - that's why you > > > need to read a broad spectrum of stuff and then apply it to your own > > > work). > > > > Most of the material you find online/books targets towards "A" SMALL Module. > > e.g. Security, Shopping, Order Tracking etc. > > > > The above does NOT necessarily help you build large modules that tightly > > intergrate with one another. > > > > e.g. > > How can you apply an MVC to build modules like the below?. > > > > - Finance > > - Sales and Distribution > > - Order Managment > > - Sales Commissions > > - Inventory Control > > - Logistics > > > > Large Corporations normally buy ERP Packages to fulfill alot of above but > > still have > > Web Application Extensions. If you ignore the Basic Framework and build > > independent > > applications around the ERP, you end up with "Disparate Systems". > > > > So does it make sense to extend the modules of the ERP System? > > If so how can you relate the modules to reusable components? > > What can you categorize as Service VS Product? > > Where do adminstrative functions fit in the picture? > > How does Reporting fit in these modules? (Independent Reporting?) > > How can you tie all this up into MVC's? > > > > The has been alot of discussions on MVC's and Programming related topics to > > specific problems > > but i havent seen any discussions on the Big Picture of solving Enterprise > > Problems. > > > > I think a session on the above topics and problems developers have faced in > > these areas > > and any possible solutions might go a long way in helping alot of us Design > > Applications. > > > > Thanks, > > Joe Eugene > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Sean Corfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 10:47 AM > > Subject: Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session) > > > > > > Yes, there is are a TON of other research papers out there > > > > but nothing really that you could use to model Large Applications. > > > > > > Sure there is - where are you really looking? You're local book store > > > or online? There's plenty of material out there covering large scale > > > applications (just none for ColdFusion, of course - that's why you > > > need to read a broad spectrum of stuff and then apply it to your own > > > work). > > > > > > > > > > > > [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session)
I'm glad to hear that, Simon. I'm looking forward to hearing more about this. On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 18:01:02 +0100, Simon Horwith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > FYI - I will soon be releasing a book that tackles a lot of these > queries. Can't say anything more at the moment... stay tuned! > > ~Simon > > Simon Horwith > CTO, eTRILOGY ltd. > Member of Team Macromedia > Macromedia Certified Master Instructor > http://www.cfstandards.org > > > > > Joe Eugene wrote: > > > > sessions. If you really want to know about these things, first do > > > your homework and read a few books. > > > > I could probably tell you names of all the architecture books > > "Borders"/Barnes Nobles carries. > > Perhaps if you try to do some reasearch yourself into these topics, > > you will > > find a few conflicting > > development design patterns. Yes, there is are a TON of other research > > papers out there > > but nothing really that you could use to model Large Applications. > > > > Joe > > > > ----- Original Message - > > From: "Paul Kenney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 1:31 AM > > Subject: Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session) > > > > > In general, I don't know if conferences are really where you will find > > > in-depth information on these topic. This is mainly because they are > > > not simple and do not fit within the short format of individual > > > sessions. If you really want to know about these things, first do > > > your homework and read a few books. Then when you get to the > > > conference, find your peers and discuss it in more detail with them. > > > See what others are doing and what they think about these topics. > > > > > > Sometimes you learn more between sessions than you do in all of them > > combined. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 22:19:27 -0700, Sean Corfield > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > I believe what we are looking for is a session on Enterprise > > Development > > > > > that includes MVC's, Sevice Oriented Architecture, Integrating > > legacy > > > > > systems etc > > > > > Basically routes to Architect Extensible Enterprise (ERP Like) > > Systems? > > > > > > > > I think you're more likely to find that sort of stuff at CFUN than > > > > MAX. The audience for MAX is very broad and MAX has to cater for a > > > > very large community that extends far beyond ColdFusion. Even CFUN > > > > caters for a very broad (ColdFusion) community. Things like SOA are > > > > not on most CFers' radars at the moment (and probably never will be). > > > > I accept their is a need for such topics somewhere but even from where > > > > I sit - as an enterprise architect - I would say that the audience for > > > > such topics is relatively small. > > > > > > > > Having said that, I'm very pleased to see interest in these topics > > > > here. It speaks volumes for the maturity of the CF community that such > > > > things are even being discussed. I'd love to see some sessions of this > > > > nature at CFUN-05... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session)
though they're not necessarily specific to a single design pattern, let's not forget the Macromedia.com case studies of both macromedia.com and the petstore application... they're chock-full of good info, especially for beginners. ~Simon Simon Horwith CTO, eTRILOGY ltd. Member of Team Macromedia Macromedia Certified Master Instructor http://www.cfstandards.org Sean Corfield wrote: > > Yes, there is are a TON of other research papers out there > > but nothing really that you could use to model Large Applications. > > Sure there is - where are you really looking? You're local book store > or online? There's plenty of material out there covering large scale > applications (just none for ColdFusion, of course - that's why you > need to read a broad spectrum of stuff and then apply it to your own > work). > [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session)
FYI - I will soon be releasing a book that tackles a lot of these queries. Can't say anything more at the moment... stay tuned! ~Simon Simon Horwith CTO, eTRILOGY ltd. Member of Team Macromedia Macromedia Certified Master Instructor http://www.cfstandards.org Joe Eugene wrote: > > sessions. If you really want to know about these things, first do > > your homework and read a few books. > > I could probably tell you names of all the architecture books > "Borders"/Barnes Nobles carries. > Perhaps if you try to do some reasearch yourself into these topics, > you will > find a few conflicting > development design patterns. Yes, there is are a TON of other research > papers out there > but nothing really that you could use to model Large Applications. > > Joe > > - Original Message - > From: "Paul Kenney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 1:31 AM > Subject: Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session) > > > In general, I don't know if conferences are really where you will find > > in-depth information on these topic. This is mainly because they are > > not simple and do not fit within the short format of individual > > sessions. If you really want to know about these things, first do > > your homework and read a few books. Then when you get to the > > conference, find your peers and discuss it in more detail with them. > > See what others are doing and what they think about these topics. > > > > Sometimes you learn more between sessions than you do in all of them > combined. > > > > > > > > On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 22:19:27 -0700, Sean Corfield > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I believe what we are looking for is a session on Enterprise > Development > > > > that includes MVC's, Sevice Oriented Architecture, Integrating > legacy > > > > systems etc > > > > Basically routes to Architect Extensible Enterprise (ERP Like) > Systems? > > > > > > I think you're more likely to find that sort of stuff at CFUN than > > > MAX. The audience for MAX is very broad and MAX has to cater for a > > > very large community that extends far beyond ColdFusion. Even CFUN > > > caters for a very broad (ColdFusion) community. Things like SOA are > > > not on most CFers' radars at the moment (and probably never will be). > > > I accept their is a need for such topics somewhere but even from where > > > I sit - as an enterprise architect - I would say that the audience for > > > such topics is relatively small. > > > > > > Having said that, I'm very pleased to see interest in these topics > > > here. It speaks volumes for the maturity of the CF community that such > > > things are even being discussed. I'd love to see some sessions of this > > > nature at CFUN-05... > > > > > > > > > > > [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session)
Joe, First, you aren't going to find anything that shows you how to do any of these things using MVC. The reason for this is that these types of solutions general are the realm of the model. It seems that you are incorrectly using the term MVC and I would recommend that you go and brush up on the types of problems this particular pattern tries to solve. It is true that you will not find much domain specific guides on the architecture of different types of applications. There is a lot of general and more useful information about how to design and build large-scale applications. Many of these books are hiding under the categories of "Patterns" or "Software Engineering". If you want a list of books, I and others would be glad to help you out. On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 11:45:27 -0400, Joe Eugene <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > or online? There's plenty of material out there covering large scale > > applications (just none for ColdFusion, of course - that's why you > > need to read a broad spectrum of stuff and then apply it to your own > > work). > > Most of the material you find online/books targets towards "A" SMALL Module. > e.g. Security, Shopping, Order Tracking etc. > > The above does NOT necessarily help you build large modules that tightly > intergrate with one another. > > e.g. > How can you apply an MVC to build modules like the below?. > > - Finance > - Sales and Distribution > - Order Managment > - Sales Commissions > - Inventory Control > - Logistics > > Large Corporations normally buy ERP Packages to fulfill alot of above but > still have > Web Application Extensions. If you ignore the Basic Framework and build > independent > applications around the ERP, you end up with "Disparate Systems". > > So does it make sense to extend the modules of the ERP System? > If so how can you relate the modules to reusable components? > What can you categorize as Service VS Product? > Where do adminstrative functions fit in the picture? > How does Reporting fit in these modules? (Independent Reporting?) > How can you tie all this up into MVC's? > > The has been alot of discussions on MVC's and Programming related topics to > specific problems > but i havent seen any discussions on the Big Picture of solving Enterprise > Problems. > > I think a session on the above topics and problems developers have faced in > these areas > and any possible solutions might go a long way in helping alot of us Design > Applications. > > Thanks, > Joe Eugene > > > - Original Message - > From: "Sean Corfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 10:47 AM > Subject: Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session) > > > > Yes, there is are a TON of other research papers out there > > > but nothing really that you could use to model Large Applications. > > > > Sure there is - where are you really looking? You're local book store > > or online? There's plenty of material out there covering large scale > > applications (just none for ColdFusion, of course - that's why you > > need to read a broad spectrum of stuff and then apply it to your own > > work). > > > > > > [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
RE: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session)
> >From my own experience, I can say it's really hard to put together a > "hardcore" hands-on presentation, simply because you don't have enough > time. > The pre-conference training events, on the other hand, are longer, and > have > more time to walk you through useful examples. > Having spoken and attended SD several times I can tell you that they understand how to provide sessions to all levels of attendees. They do it by providing speakers with different types of time slots. The slots are available in 90 minutes, half-day, and full-day. CFUN for example only gives 60 minutes if I recall. The extra 30 minutes makes a huge difference at SD. -Matt [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session)
> or online? There's plenty of material out there covering large scale > applications (just none for ColdFusion, of course - that's why you > need to read a broad spectrum of stuff and then apply it to your own > work). Most of the material you find online/books targets towards "A" SMALL Module. e.g. Security, Shopping, Order Tracking etc. The above does NOT necessarily help you build large modules that tightly intergrate with one another. e.g. How can you apply an MVC to build modules like the below?. - Finance - Sales and Distribution - Order Managment - Sales Commissions - Inventory Control - Logistics Large Corporations normally buy ERP Packages to fulfill alot of above but still have Web Application Extensions. If you ignore the Basic Framework and build independent applications around the ERP, you end up with "Disparate Systems". So does it make sense to extend the modules of the ERP System? If so how can you relate the modules to reusable components? What can you categorize as Service VS Product? Where do adminstrative functions fit in the picture? How does Reporting fit in these modules? (Independent Reporting?) How can you tie all this up into MVC's? The has been alot of discussions on MVC's and Programming related topics to specific problems but i havent seen any discussions on the Big Picture of solving Enterprise Problems. I think a session on the above topics and problems developers have faced in these areas and any possible solutions might go a long way in helping alot of us Design Applications. Thanks, Joe Eugene - Original Message - From: "Sean Corfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 10:47 AM Subject: Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session) > > Yes, there is are a TON of other research papers out there > > but nothing really that you could use to model Large Applications. > > Sure there is - where are you really looking? You're local book store > or online? There's plenty of material out there covering large scale > applications (just none for ColdFusion, of course - that's why you > need to read a broad spectrum of stuff and then apply it to your own > work). > > [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
RE: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session)
Not even talking about "hardcore" sessions, just look at intermediate and advanced sessions. Someone that is only interested in ColdFusion can not go to a CF session appropriate to their level in every time slot at MAX (after taking repeats into account). The fact is if you're only interested in CF and are an intermediate or advanced developer, the session choices are limited. There are some good advanced sessions (don't miss mine!) but not in every slot. At CFUN, there were 5 tracks (well, 4 depending on how you count it) and almost all were CF specific and many were advanced sessions. MAX is geared towards a different (introductory) audience and has sessions for many MM products. Now that CFUN has advanced to the point where it is a major conference with tons of content, it really is a better CF conference than MAX is. If you're a CF+Flash developer or are interested in Flex (and can afford it), then MAX is great. But for typical CF developers, CFUN is far better in my opinion. Sam > -Original Message- > From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 10:48 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session) > > > sure, those sessions are fine, but there are a lot of us, and > > probably a lot that dont attend, simply because the sessions > > are dumbed down for the masses. id love to see a track of > > sessions that were fairly hardcore/hands-on and spanned the > > whole conferencegood stuff i think. > > From my own experience, I can say it's really hard to put together a > "hardcore" hands-on presentation, simply because you don't > have enough time. > The pre-conference training events, on the other hand, are > longer, and have > more time to walk you through useful examples. > > Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session)
> Yes, there is are a TON of other research papers out there > but nothing really that you could use to model Large Applications. Sure there is - where are you really looking? You're local book store or online? There's plenty of material out there covering large scale applications (just none for ColdFusion, of course - that's why you need to read a broad spectrum of stuff and then apply it to your own work). [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
RE: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session)
> sure, those sessions are fine, but there are a lot of us, and > probably a lot that dont attend, simply because the sessions > are dumbed down for the masses. id love to see a track of > sessions that were fairly hardcore/hands-on and spanned the > whole conferencegood stuff i think. >From my own experience, I can say it's really hard to put together a "hardcore" hands-on presentation, simply because you don't have enough time. The pre-conference training events, on the other hand, are longer, and have more time to walk you through useful examples. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ phone: 202-797-5496 fax: 202-797-5444 [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session)
sure, those sessions are fine, but there are a lot of us, and probably a lot that dont attend, simply because the sessions are dumbed down for the masses. id love to see a track of sessions that were fairly hardcore/hands-on and spanned the whole conferencegood stuff i think. tw On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 09:06:26 -0500, Raymond Camden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I think the topics at MAX try their best to cover all ranges of > developer skills. Frankly, I like giving the simpler, "intro" style > sessions, especially this class as it introduces a large set of > concepts to folks (I cover everything from cfinclude, custom tags, > udfs, and cfcs). > > By the way, I've mentioned this on other lists - if you have any > interest in attending a CFC Birds of a Feather, please drop a line to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] saying you would like to see such a session. > I held one last year (unofficial though) and it was pretty interesting > I think. > > -ray > > On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 21:53:57 -0400, Tony Weeg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > so what can macromedia take away from this, to make max200x better? i > > mean, to me, its the problem, of VERY dumbed down sessions, and the > > fact that RAY CAMDEN is doing the SAME presentation on REUSABLE code > > is sad. RAY has MUCH MORE to offer than thatdont you ray? i dont > > want to speak for you, but come on, the same stuff? i mean, whats the > > sense of doing it? > > > > [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session)
I think the topics at MAX try their best to cover all ranges of developer skills. Frankly, I like giving the simpler, "intro" style sessions, especially this class as it introduces a large set of concepts to folks (I cover everything from cfinclude, custom tags, udfs, and cfcs). By the way, I've mentioned this on other lists - if you have any interest in attending a CFC Birds of a Feather, please drop a line to [EMAIL PROTECTED] saying you would like to see such a session. I held one last year (unofficial though) and it was pretty interesting I think. -ray On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 21:53:57 -0400, Tony Weeg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > so what can macromedia take away from this, to make max200x better? i > mean, to me, its the problem, of VERY dumbed down sessions, and the > fact that RAY CAMDEN is doing the SAME presentation on REUSABLE code > is sad. RAY has MUCH MORE to offer than thatdont you ray? i dont > want to speak for you, but come on, the same stuff? i mean, whats the > sense of doing it? > [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session)
> sessions. If you really want to know about these things, first do > your homework and read a few books. I could probably tell you names of all the architecture books "Borders"/Barnes Nobles carries. Perhaps if you try to do some reasearch yourself into these topics, you will find a few conflicting development design patterns. Yes, there is are a TON of other research papers out there but nothing really that you could use to model Large Applications. Joe - Original Message - From: "Paul Kenney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 1:31 AM Subject: Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session) > In general, I don't know if conferences are really where you will find > in-depth information on these topic. This is mainly because they are > not simple and do not fit within the short format of individual > sessions. If you really want to know about these things, first do > your homework and read a few books. Then when you get to the > conference, find your peers and discuss it in more detail with them. > See what others are doing and what they think about these topics. > > Sometimes you learn more between sessions than you do in all of them combined. > > > > On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 22:19:27 -0700, Sean Corfield > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I believe what we are looking for is a session on Enterprise Development > > > that includes MVC's, Sevice Oriented Architecture, Integrating legacy > > > systems etc > > > Basically routes to Architect Extensible Enterprise (ERP Like) Systems? > > > > I think you're more likely to find that sort of stuff at CFUN than > > MAX. The audience for MAX is very broad and MAX has to cater for a > > very large community that extends far beyond ColdFusion. Even CFUN > > caters for a very broad (ColdFusion) community. Things like SOA are > > not on most CFers' radars at the moment (and probably never will be). > > I accept their is a need for such topics somewhere but even from where > > I sit - as an enterprise architect - I would say that the audience for > > such topics is relatively small. > > > > Having said that, I'm very pleased to see interest in these topics > > here. It speaks volumes for the maturity of the CF community that such > > things are even being discussed. I'd love to see some sessions of this > > nature at CFUN-05... > > > > > > [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session)
In general, I don't know if conferences are really where you will find in-depth information on these topic. This is mainly because they are not simple and do not fit within the short format of individual sessions. If you really want to know about these things, first do your homework and read a few books. Then when you get to the conference, find your peers and discuss it in more detail with them. See what others are doing and what they think about these topics. Sometimes you learn more between sessions than you do in all of them combined. On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 22:19:27 -0700, Sean Corfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I believe what we are looking for is a session on Enterprise Development > > that includes MVC's, Sevice Oriented Architecture, Integrating legacy > > systems etc > > Basically routes to Architect Extensible Enterprise (ERP Like) Systems? > > I think you're more likely to find that sort of stuff at CFUN than > MAX. The audience for MAX is very broad and MAX has to cater for a > very large community that extends far beyond ColdFusion. Even CFUN > caters for a very broad (ColdFusion) community. Things like SOA are > not on most CFers' radars at the moment (and probably never will be). > I accept their is a need for such topics somewhere but even from where > I sit - as an enterprise architect - I would say that the audience for > such topics is relatively small. > > Having said that, I'm very pleased to see interest in these topics > here. It speaks volumes for the maturity of the CF community that such > things are even being discussed. I'd love to see some sessions of this > nature at CFUN-05... > > [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session)
> I believe what we are looking for is a session on Enterprise Development > that includes MVC's, Sevice Oriented Architecture, Integrating legacy > systems etc > Basically routes to Architect Extensible Enterprise (ERP Like) Systems? I think you're more likely to find that sort of stuff at CFUN than MAX. The audience for MAX is very broad and MAX has to cater for a very large community that extends far beyond ColdFusion. Even CFUN caters for a very broad (ColdFusion) community. Things like SOA are not on most CFers' radars at the moment (and probably never will be). I accept their is a need for such topics somewhere but even from where I sit - as an enterprise architect - I would say that the audience for such topics is relatively small. Having said that, I'm very pleased to see interest in these topics here. It speaks volumes for the maturity of the CF community that such things are even being discussed. I'd love to see some sessions of this nature at CFUN-05... [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
RE: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session)
I believe what we are looking for is a session on Enterprise Development that includes MVC's, Sevice Oriented Architecture, Integrating legacy systems etc Basically routes to Architect Extensible Enterprise (ERP Like) Systems? If you dont know CFML Or Java, you can take a class to Learn the basics and even more, I dont think you can learn Best Practices Of Architecture/Design anywhere other than some general guidelines. Anybody? Thanks, Joe Eugene -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 3:35 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session) I don't think it matters anymore. CFUN-04 beat last year's MAX in everyway as far as CFML goes. Looking at what is scheduled for MAX 2004 tells me that CFUN-04 will be the best conference this year pretty easily. I expect that by the time CFUN-05 rolls around there won't be any question which conference is the de facto CFML conference. -Matt > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of Paul Kenney > Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 3:03 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session) > > It was mostly a 3-day commercial last year. However, I've heard that > MM got so much flack for last year's MAX, that this year they will not > do that again. That means that this year MAX should be focused on > what the community(read attendees) want to see and hear, and less on > what marketing wants its captive audience to experience for three > days. > > > On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 14:14:36 -0400, Joe Eugene <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > I am thinking MAX 2004 might just be more of Trade show for Macromedia > > Products. > > > -- > Paul Kenney > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session)
so what can macromedia take away from this, to make max200x better? i mean, to me, its the problem, of VERY dumbed down sessions, and the fact that RAY CAMDEN is doing the SAME presentation on REUSABLE code is sad. RAY has MUCH MORE to offer than thatdont you ray? i dont want to speak for you, but come on, the same stuff? i mean, whats the sense of doing it? tw On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 13:55:42 -0700, Paul Kenney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You are the first person to disagree with me about it being a > commercial. I just know that I came away from it last year with mixed > feelings. I'm not saying that I didn't enjoy it. Its just that I > guess I expected something more. By the way, it was my first > conference... so who knows what I expected--Disneyland perhaps? > > Having been to MAX last year and CFUN04, I must say that I felt a > whole lot better about my decision to go to CFUN. > > The good thing about MAX, though, is that I was able to get an idea of > what was going on in other areas of development such as Flex and > Flash. It is partly because of this that I will be going again this > year. Its also nice to get away from work for a week! > > > On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 20:13:26 +0100, Simon Horwith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I didn't think it was a 3-day commercial. quite honestly I thought the > > quality of speakers was better than ever as were the topics, although > > there weren't as many CF topics as I'd have liked. This year definitely > > looks to be the same so far, though the location is obviously much better. > > > > ~Simon > > > > Simon Horwith > > CTO, eTRILOGY ltd. > > Member of Team Macromedia > > Macromedia Certified Master Instructor > > http://www.cfstandards.org > > > > > > > > > > Paul Kenney wrote: > > > > > It was mostly a 3-day commercial last year. However, I've heard that > > > MM got so much flack for last year's MAX, that this year they will not > > > do that again. That means that this year MAX should be focused on > > > what the community(read attendees) want to see and hear, and less on > > > what marketing wants its captive audience to experience for three > > > days. > > > > > > On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 14:14:36 -0400, Joe Eugene <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > > I am thinking MAX 2004 might just be more of Trade show for Macromedia > > > > Products. > > > > > > -- > > > Paul Kenney > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session)
You are the first person to disagree with me about it being a commercial. I just know that I came away from it last year with mixed feelings. I'm not saying that I didn't enjoy it. Its just that I guess I expected something more. By the way, it was my first conference... so who knows what I expected--Disneyland perhaps? Having been to MAX last year and CFUN04, I must say that I felt a whole lot better about my decision to go to CFUN. The good thing about MAX, though, is that I was able to get an idea of what was going on in other areas of development such as Flex and Flash. It is partly because of this that I will be going again this year. Its also nice to get away from work for a week! On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 20:13:26 +0100, Simon Horwith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I didn't think it was a 3-day commercial. quite honestly I thought the > quality of speakers was better than ever as were the topics, although > there weren't as many CF topics as I'd have liked. This year definitely > looks to be the same so far, though the location is obviously much better. > > ~Simon > > Simon Horwith > CTO, eTRILOGY ltd. > Member of Team Macromedia > Macromedia Certified Master Instructor > http://www.cfstandards.org > > > > > Paul Kenney wrote: > > > It was mostly a 3-day commercial last year. However, I've heard that > > MM got so much flack for last year's MAX, that this year they will not > > do that again. That means that this year MAX should be focused on > > what the community(read attendees) want to see and hear, and less on > > what marketing wants its captive audience to experience for three > > days. > > > > On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 14:14:36 -0400, Joe Eugene <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > I am thinking MAX 2004 might just be more of Trade show for Macromedia > > > Products. > > > > -- > > Paul Kenney > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
RE: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session)
I don't think it matters anymore. CFUN-04 beat last year's MAX in everyway as far as CFML goes. Looking at what is scheduled for MAX 2004 tells me that CFUN-04 will be the best conference this year pretty easily. I expect that by the time CFUN-05 rolls around there won't be any question which conference is the de facto CFML conference. -Matt > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of Paul Kenney > Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 3:03 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session) > > It was mostly a 3-day commercial last year. However, I've heard that > MM got so much flack for last year's MAX, that this year they will not > do that again. That means that this year MAX should be focused on > what the community(read attendees) want to see and hear, and less on > what marketing wants its captive audience to experience for three > days. > > > On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 14:14:36 -0400, Joe Eugene <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > I am thinking MAX 2004 might just be more of Trade show for Macromedia > > Products. > > > -- > Paul Kenney > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session)
I didn't think it was a 3-day commercial. quite honestly I thought the quality of speakers was better than ever as were the topics, although there weren't as many CF topics as I'd have liked. This year definitely looks to be the same so far, though the location is obviously much better. ~Simon Simon Horwith CTO, eTRILOGY ltd. Member of Team Macromedia Macromedia Certified Master Instructor http://www.cfstandards.org Paul Kenney wrote: > It was mostly a 3-day commercial last year. However, I've heard that > MM got so much flack for last year's MAX, that this year they will not > do that again. That means that this year MAX should be focused on > what the community(read attendees) want to see and hear, and less on > what marketing wants its captive audience to experience for three > days. > > On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 14:14:36 -0400, Joe Eugene <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > I am thinking MAX 2004 might just be more of Trade show for Macromedia > > Products. > > -- > Paul Kenney > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session)
> It would be really nice to see a comprehensive session on build large > Enterprise applications(ERP) > using MVC's and concern/questions on strong implementations. Did you submit that suggestion when Macromedia was asking for session topics? If not, why not? :) > I am thinking MAX 2004 might just be more of Trade show for Macromedia I gather that last year's pretty much was according to some folks I know who went. I believe this year's is much more driven by community requests... > What is CF_UNDERGROUND about? Organized by Michael Smith / TeraTech. Do a Google search to find out more about it :) [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session)
It was mostly a 3-day commercial last year. However, I've heard that MM got so much flack for last year's MAX, that this year they will not do that again. That means that this year MAX should be focused on what the community(read attendees) want to see and hear, and less on what marketing wants its captive audience to experience for three days. On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 14:14:36 -0400, Joe Eugene <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I am thinking MAX 2004 might just be more of Trade show for Macromedia > Products. -- Paul Kenney [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session)
It would be really nice to see a comprehensive session on build large Enterprise applications(ERP) using MVC's and concern/questions on strong implementations. I am thinking MAX 2004 might just be more of Trade show for Macromedia Products. > I might end up at CF_UNDERGROUND What is CF_UNDERGROUND about? Thanks Joe - Original Message - From: "Sandy Clark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 9:57 AM Subject: RE: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session) > Hal told me he is actually speaking at MAX this year. ON CFC's so he will be > there. > > I might end up at CF_UNDERGROUND before the conference, but not at MAX > itself. > > Sandy > > _ > > From: Sean Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 1:31 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session) > > > > Anybody planning to do a session on MVC's(Mach-ii, other) for MAX 2004. > > If it isn't on the topic list, then it isn't scheduled... Or are you > talking about something unofficial? > > > Sean/Hal Helms/Ben? > > I won't be at MAX. I don't believe Hal or Ben will be either. Fusebox > 2004 is concentrating on Fusebox this year (sort of "duh!") although a > Mach II course is planned to run immediately after the conference. > It's not looking likely that I'll be at that conference either > (although it's still under discussion). CFUN was "the" CF event for me > this year... :) > _ > > > > [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
RE: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session)
Hal told me he is actually speaking at MAX this year. ON CFC's so he will be there. I might end up at CF_UNDERGROUND before the conference, but not at MAX itself. Sandy _ From: Sean Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 1:31 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session) > Anybody planning to do a session on MVC's(Mach-ii, other) for MAX 2004. If it isn't on the topic list, then it isn't scheduled... Or are you talking about something unofficial? > Sean/Hal Helms/Ben? I won't be at MAX. I don't believe Hal or Ben will be either. Fusebox 2004 is concentrating on Fusebox this year (sort of "duh!") although a Mach II course is planned to run immediately after the conference. It's not looking likely that I'll be at that conference either (although it's still under discussion). CFUN was "the" CF event for me this year... :) _ [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session)
hal will be there, according to the session schedule, i signed up for his structured cold fusion coding, somthing or other... tw On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 22:30:36 -0700, Sean Corfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Anybody planning to do a session on MVC's(Mach-ii, other) for MAX 2004. > > If it isn't on the topic list, then it isn't scheduled... Or are you > talking about something unofficial? > > > Sean/Hal Helms/Ben? > > I won't be at MAX. I don't believe Hal or Ben will be either. Fusebox > 2004 is concentrating on Fusebox this year (sort of "duh!") although a > Mach II course is planned to run immediately after the conference. > It's not looking likely that I'll be at that conference either > (although it's still under discussion). CFUN was "the" CF event for me > this year... :) > > [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
Re: MAX 2004 (MVC's Session)
> Anybody planning to do a session on MVC's(Mach-ii, other) for MAX 2004. If it isn't on the topic list, then it isn't scheduled... Or are you talking about something unofficial? > Sean/Hal Helms/Ben? I won't be at MAX. I don't believe Hal or Ben will be either. Fusebox 2004 is concentrating on Fusebox this year (sort of "duh!") although a Mach II course is planned to run immediately after the conference. It's not looking likely that I'll be at that conference either (although it's still under discussion). CFUN was "the" CF event for me this year... :) [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
