RE: Quiz builder?
> One of things you can do within SQL server 2000 is build the > HTML for the checkbox, radio buttons and select options > directly in the database without CF having to parse the > information. ( I think this is possible within Oracle 9i as > well-- the commands and techniques are different) You can certainly do this, but all I can say is "Yikes!" Following this logic to its extreme, why do anything in CF? Why not just put all of your application logic in the database? The answer, of course, is that doing this limits the maintainability and reusability of your application. The presentation logic and the data access logic are all mixed into one big pile this way, and if any part of it needs to be changed, it'll affect everything else. > Quiz display > For displaying answers for each question the NON-XML method > would involve running two querries-- one against a reporting > database and the other against the question list. CF would > then compare the results to see if we need to merge the two > items. Even if we were doing one question at a time and > saving the question number, as in a pool of question, this > would still involve querrying the entire database every time > (or be a drain on resources of a lot of people were using Q > of Q functionality to do the same). You can certainly amalgamate questions and answers into a single query, if you want to do that and if it makes sense to do that. However, it may not make sense to do that in any case. While it's true that, all other things being equal, one database query performs better than two, all other things aren't usually equal. > Inserting answers into the reporting database > Inserts work in the same way-- by placing the data into a > table datatype one can quickly move information into the > database (obv.. you'll place the the document into the proper > format by turing the results into XML), into the right fields > 20 questions at a time-- this way the database does not have > to process 20 insert questions at a time -- less chance of a > deadlock if you have quite a number of customers on the site. I seriously doubt that this'll decrease the likelihood of a deadlock. Instead of having lots of individual inserts, you'll have more lengthy insert processes, and may increase the likelihood of a deadlock. But in a well constructed relational database schema, you shouldn't have much chance of a deadlock anyway, since one user's inserted answers shouldn't touch the same rows as another's. I've worked on several survey applications with all the requirements you've stated (and more), but I've never found the need to use the database this way to make them work well. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
RE: Quiz builder?
Right right. Sorry to confuse, I understand _how_ it can be done. Im just having a hard time believing you database speeds will be much faster if at all. A major issue I have with this type of solution is that your view is buried now in stored procedures. The application will be locked into using HTML for display. Let alone this XML solution wouldnt work at all for a Flash front end. How many designers do you know who will work within stored procedures? Using XML this way is not for every application -- but when you have an application with a lot of similar inserts and selects this is a viable option in the toolkit. Where are you seeing these similar inserts and selects? If a standard quiz has a pool of say 50 questions. Only 25 are display in random order. Multiple choice questions have their answers displayed in random order. A student takes this test, but you are only saving the 25 answers they selected. It would be very rare for one users database result and insert to match up with anothers. Why not just create a quiz object, populate it with a stored procedure call and throw it into application scope? You hit the DB only once to create the initial object, and then once each time you save the results. Then you are open to trow a façade in between the object and the display to port to Flash, HTML or whatever. How is CF still not parsing XML? It would have to parse the XML to get to the HTML within. Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Jeremy Brodie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 1:04 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re:Quiz builder? Adam, One of things you can do within SQL server 2000 is build the HTML for the checkbox, radio buttons and select options directly in the database without CF having to parse the information. ( I think this is possible within Oracle 9i as well-- the commands and techniques are different) To see why this could be an easier process let's take a look at the alternatives. Requirements: 1) You need to answser 20 questions, they of any form type 2) Users need to save the information for later... i.e they can take the quiz and go back an hour later 3) Your administrative section needs to provide a interface allowing quiz questions to be added, modified and deleted. You also need to weigh the questions as well for scoring purposes. 4) You need to provide quiz administrators with reporting on the users results Quiz creation a) Non XML way: Based upon a selection you will need to querry the database for questions and answers. Pulling the answers from a single query (and mulitple joins) you'll check if there are more than one record in the database query. If there its a checkbox, radio list or select box, then you will need to supress the question and provide the user with the answer. b) Using XML, on the database side, configure the XML query so you are pulling direct HTML (there is no processing on the CF side, it just pulls whatever provided by the database). If there is no answers then in the stored proceedure write out the Textbox or input tags directly. For radio buttons, check boxes and select lists, created a nested XML structure containing the questions and the answers outputting the information as straight HTML (so the XML would be your option or input tags). Quiz display For displaying answers for each question the NON-XML method would involve running two querries-- one against a reporting database and the other against the question list. CF would then compare the results to see if we need to merge the two items. Even if we were doing one question at a time and saving the question number, as in a pool of question, this would still involve querrying the entire database every time (or be a drain on resources of a lot of people were using Q of Q functionality to do the same). Using the XML way (in SQL server 2000), create a table object containing the questions and the correct answer. This way the output can contain the answer or checked box as needed. By using database functions to randomize and pool the functions, one can reduce the laod on the database server while also easing the parsing by using XML. Inserting answers into the reporting database Inserts work in the same way-- by placing the data into a table datatype one can quickly move information into the database (obv.. you'll place the the document into the proper format by turing the results into XML), into the right fields 20 questions at a time-- this way the database does not have to process 20 insert questions at a time -- less chance of a deadlock if you have quite a number of customers on the site. You'll note that I could of saved the user's information as a session variable and choose not to do it this way. Even using a structure to determine the question answer pair -- a customer taking the quiz could not take the quiz later on without taking
RE: Quiz builder?
I don't see how XML would really help. You're still having to run complicated queries to generate the XML, then asking CF to parse. In most quiz applications a random display and question pool is common so caching the xml wouldn't be beneficial either. What am I missing here? Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Jeremy Brodie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 12:56 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re:Quiz builder? Joe, If you're looking to build one from sratch you might want to take a look at using XML to send and retieve information from the database. Christopher Lomvardias has a good presentation on this subject at http://www.cfug-md.org/talks/mdcfug_2003December.ppt. Its a bit heavy on the database site, however, doing it this way will save a lot of time building the application. He does a great job explaining how this would work for a situation such as yours. (and doing it this way will save a tremendous amount of code-- doing it without XML would involve complicated querries and quite a bit of CF logic to display the page properly!) Bascially, the hard part of creating any quiz is generating the checkboxes, radio button and the select lists -- and generating XML is a clean fast way of moving this information in and out of the database, espcally if you have 20-30 questions in your quiz. On the creation side, you might want to look at using a bit of _javascript_ to add the elements you'll need to add checkboxes, select lists and radio buttons. Jeremy Brodie Intelix an Edgewater Technology Solutions Company web: http://www.edgewater.com phone:(703) 815-2500 nasdaq symbol: EDGE >I've been looking for a nice quiz/test builder for an online course system >i'm working on and can't seem to find one, at least not one for ColdFusion. >Anyone come across anything like this? I'd rather buy some open code than >write it myself, too many other things to work on right now. Most of what i >see out there are poll generators though, nothing for quizzes or tests. > >If you know where i can find it, or would like to sell what you've made, >please contact me. Thanks!!! ... .joe _ [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
RE: Quiz builder?
Matt, I'd be very interested to see a demo. Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Matt Robertson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 6:00 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Quiz builder? Joe Hobson wrote: >I've been looking for a nice quiz/test builder for an online course >system I've got this built into the user-friendly form builder in CMPro. Its something I built for a client's online continuing education and left in the retail product. It was meant to run the whole show, though; a basic course management system whereby instructors can create content for their students, and where everyone has to be permissioned properly to see or edit stuff (i.e. instructors can only edit their own stuff, students can only see what they've signed up for). If a student passes a test a course completion certificate can be gotten hold of; the user has a course list showing what courses they have enrolled in etc. etc. Questions can be weighted so you don't have to have an absolute right or wrong answer. Police officers should: A. Protect and serve the public trust +100 B. Lay off the donuts and eat right +5 C. Polish their badges until shiny +0 D. Shoot first and ask questions later -100 It'll also accept and evaluate case sensitive/insensitive text input. The demo is offline as we get ready to roll out CMProV.3. I can arrange for a private one if you like. Contact me off list if you're interested. Cheers, -- --- Matt Robertson, [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSB Designs, Inc. http://mysecretbase.com --- -- _ [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Quiz builder?
Thanks. Will download now! :) - Original Message - From: Doug White <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Friday, December 19, 2003 5:38 pm Subject: Re: Quiz builder? > It is part of the Macromedia DRK and is described on the > Macromedia Web site. > > == > Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway! > http://www.clickdoug.com/mailfilter.cfm > For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com > Featuring Win2003 Enterprise, RedHat Linux, CFMX 6.1 and PHP > == > If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done! > > - Original Message - > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 6:07 PM > Subject: Re: Quiz builder? > > > | Say, do you have a link for this? I searched google and mm and > didn't find > anything, > | > | - Original Message - > | From: Doug White <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > | Date: Friday, December 19, 2003 4:01 pm > | Subject: Re: Quiz builder? > | > | > Have you looked at FlashMX Virtual Classroom? It makes awesome > | > online courses! > | > > | > == > | > Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway! > | > http://www.clickdoug.com/mailfilter.cfm > | > For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com > | > Featuring Win2003 Enterprise, RedHat Linux, CFMX 6.1 and PHP > | > == > | > If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done! > | > > | > - Original Message - > | > From: "Matt Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > | > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > | > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 4:59 PM > | > Subject: Re: Quiz builder? > | > > | > > | > | Joe Hobson wrote: > | > | >I've been looking for a nice quiz/test builder for an online > | > course >system > | > | > | > | I've got this built into the user-friendly form builder in > | > CMPro. Its > | > something I built for a client's online continuing education and > | > left in the > | > retail product. It was meant to run the whole show, though; a > | > basic course > | > management system whereby instructors can create content for their > | > students, and > | > where everyone has to be permissioned properly to see or edit > | > stuff (i.e. > | > instructors can only edit their own stuff, students can only see > | > what they've > | > signed up for). > | > | > | > | If a student passes a test a course completion certificate can > | > be gotten hold > | > of; the user has a course list showing what courses they have > | > enrolled in etc. > | > etc. Questions can be weighted so you don't have to have an > | > absolute right or > | > wrong answer. > | > | > | > | Police officers should: > | > | A. Protect and serve the public trust +100 > | > | B. Lay off the donuts and eat right +5 > | > | C. Polish their badges until shiny +0 > | > | D. Shoot first and ask questions later -100 > | > | > | > | It'll also accept and evaluate case sensitive/insensitive text > | > input.| > | > | The demo is offline as we get ready to roll out CMProV.3. I can > | > arrange for a > | > private one if you like. Contact me off list if you're > interested.| > | > | > | Cheers, > | > | > | > | > | > | -- > | > | --- > | > | Matt Robertson, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > | > | MSB Designs, Inc. http://mysecretbase.com > | > | --- > | > | > | > | -- > | > | > | > > | > [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Quiz builder?
It is part of the Macromedia DRK and is described on the Macromedia Web site. == Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway! http://www.clickdoug.com/mailfilter.cfm For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com Featuring Win2003 Enterprise, RedHat Linux, CFMX 6.1 and PHP == If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done! - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 6:07 PM Subject: Re: Quiz builder? | Say, do you have a link for this? I searched google and mm and didn't find anything, | | - Original Message - | From: Doug White <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | Date: Friday, December 19, 2003 4:01 pm | Subject: Re: Quiz builder? | | > Have you looked at FlashMX Virtual Classroom? It makes awesome | > online courses! | > | > == | > Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway! | > http://www.clickdoug.com/mailfilter.cfm | > For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com | > Featuring Win2003 Enterprise, RedHat Linux, CFMX 6.1 and PHP | > == | > If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done! | > | > - Original Message - | > From: "Matt Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 4:59 PM | > Subject: Re: Quiz builder? | > | > | > | Joe Hobson wrote: | > | >I've been looking for a nice quiz/test builder for an online | > course >system | > | | > | I've got this built into the user-friendly form builder in | > CMPro. Its | > something I built for a client's online continuing education and | > left in the | > retail product. It was meant to run the whole show, though; a | > basic course | > management system whereby instructors can create content for their | > students, and | > where everyone has to be permissioned properly to see or edit | > stuff (i.e. | > instructors can only edit their own stuff, students can only see | > what they've | > signed up for). | > | | > | If a student passes a test a course completion certificate can | > be gotten hold | > of; the user has a course list showing what courses they have | > enrolled in etc. | > etc. Questions can be weighted so you don't have to have an | > absolute right or | > wrong answer. | > | | > | Police officers should: | > | A. Protect and serve the public trust +100 | > | B. Lay off the donuts and eat right +5 | > | C. Polish their badges until shiny +0 | > | D. Shoot first and ask questions later -100 | > | | > | It'll also accept and evaluate case sensitive/insensitive text | > input.| | > | The demo is offline as we get ready to roll out CMProV.3. I can | > arrange for a | > private one if you like. Contact me off list if you're interested. | > | | > | Cheers, | > | | > | | > | -- | > | --- | > | Matt Robertson, [EMAIL PROTECTED] | > | MSB Designs, Inc. http://mysecretbase.com | > | --- | > | | > | -- | > | | > | [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Quiz builder?
Say, do you have a link for this? I searched google and mm and didn't find anything, - Original Message - From: Doug White <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Friday, December 19, 2003 4:01 pm Subject: Re: Quiz builder? > Have you looked at FlashMX Virtual Classroom? It makes awesome > online courses! > > == > Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway! > http://www.clickdoug.com/mailfilter.cfm > For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com > Featuring Win2003 Enterprise, RedHat Linux, CFMX 6.1 and PHP > == > If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done! > > - Original Message - > From: "Matt Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 4:59 PM > Subject: Re: Quiz builder? > > > | Joe Hobson wrote: > | >I've been looking for a nice quiz/test builder for an online > course >system > | > | I've got this built into the user-friendly form builder in > CMPro. Its > something I built for a client's online continuing education and > left in the > retail product. It was meant to run the whole show, though; a > basic course > management system whereby instructors can create content for their > students, and > where everyone has to be permissioned properly to see or edit > stuff (i.e. > instructors can only edit their own stuff, students can only see > what they've > signed up for). > | > | If a student passes a test a course completion certificate can > be gotten hold > of; the user has a course list showing what courses they have > enrolled in etc. > etc. Questions can be weighted so you don't have to have an > absolute right or > wrong answer. > | > | Police officers should: > | A. Protect and serve the public trust +100 > | B. Lay off the donuts and eat right +5 > | C. Polish their badges until shiny +0 > | D. Shoot first and ask questions later -100 > | > | It'll also accept and evaluate case sensitive/insensitive text > input.| > | The demo is offline as we get ready to roll out CMProV.3. I can > arrange for a > private one if you like. Contact me off list if you're interested. > | > | Cheers, > | > | > | -- > | --- > | Matt Robertson, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > | MSB Designs, Inc. http://mysecretbase.com > | --- > | > | -- > | > [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Quiz builder?
Doug White wrote: >Have you looked at FlashMX Virtual Classroom? It makes awesome >online courses! I'm still dreaming of the day when I'll have time to learn Flash. Hopefully Flex will come to my rescue. --Matt Robertson-- MSB Designs, Inc. [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Quiz builder?
Have you looked at FlashMX Virtual Classroom? It makes awesome online courses! == Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway! http://www.clickdoug.com/mailfilter.cfm For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com Featuring Win2003 Enterprise, RedHat Linux, CFMX 6.1 and PHP == If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done! - Original Message - From: "Matt Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 4:59 PM Subject: Re: Quiz builder? | Joe Hobson wrote: | >I've been looking for a nice quiz/test builder for an online course >system | | I've got this built into the user-friendly form builder in CMPro. Its something I built for a client's online continuing education and left in the retail product. It was meant to run the whole show, though; a basic course management system whereby instructors can create content for their students, and where everyone has to be permissioned properly to see or edit stuff (i.e. instructors can only edit their own stuff, students can only see what they've signed up for). | | If a student passes a test a course completion certificate can be gotten hold of; the user has a course list showing what courses they have enrolled in etc. etc. Questions can be weighted so you don't have to have an absolute right or wrong answer. | | Police officers should: | A. Protect and serve the public trust +100 | B. Lay off the donuts and eat right +5 | C. Polish their badges until shiny +0 | D. Shoot first and ask questions later -100 | | It'll also accept and evaluate case sensitive/insensitive text input. | | The demo is offline as we get ready to roll out CMProV.3. I can arrange for a private one if you like. Contact me off list if you're interested. | | Cheers, | | | -- | --- | Matt Robertson, [EMAIL PROTECTED] | MSB Designs, Inc. http://mysecretbase.com | --- | | -- | [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Quiz builder?
Joe Hobson wrote: >I've been looking for a nice quiz/test builder for an online course >system I've got this built into the user-friendly form builder in CMPro. Its something I built for a client's online continuing education and left in the retail product. It was meant to run the whole show, though; a basic course management system whereby instructors can create content for their students, and where everyone has to be permissioned properly to see or edit stuff (i.e. instructors can only edit their own stuff, students can only see what they've signed up for). If a student passes a test a course completion certificate can be gotten hold of; the user has a course list showing what courses they have enrolled in etc. etc. Questions can be weighted so you don't have to have an absolute right or wrong answer. Police officers should: A. Protect and serve the public trust +100 B. Lay off the donuts and eat right +5 C. Polish their badges until shiny +0 D. Shoot first and ask questions later -100 It'll also accept and evaluate case sensitive/insensitive text input. The demo is offline as we get ready to roll out CMProV.3. I can arrange for a private one if you like. Contact me off list if you're interested. Cheers, -- --- Matt Robertson, [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSB Designs, Inc. http://mysecretbase.com --- -- [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Quiz builder?
flash has some nice ones built in & u could use the cfm as the backend > I've been looking for a nice quiz/test builder for an online course > system i'm working on and can't seem to find one, at least not one for > ColdFusion. Anyone come across anything like this? I'd rather buy some > open code than write it myself, too many other things to work on right > now. Most of what i see out there are poll generators though, nothing > for quizzes or tests. > > If you know where i can find it, or would like to sell what you've made, > please contact me. Thanks!!! ... .joe > [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
