Re: Suggestion for the list
Claude Schneegans wrote: If you know one that shows threads but gives you an option to break them when the subject changes, please tell me which one. Remove line 3723-43 of /mailnews/db/msgdb/src/nsMsgDatabase.cpp and recompile Thunderbird. Jochem ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232779 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Suggestion for the list
and recompile Thunderbird. Sure! ;-) -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232784 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Suggestion for the list
Claude Schneegans said: Please don't. If somebody adds [SOLVED] or something to the subject, it still has to go in the same thread. I would say that 1. only a few percentage of modified subjects are modified for that purpose. 2. in almost all cases a SOLVED question actually starts a completely different conversation any way ;-) 3. Most of the time, modified subjects are completely new subjects When a message contains a References header, you have the choice to ignore it. When that References header is taken away, I don't have the choice to act on it anymore because I can not act on something that isn't there. If you don't like the way your email client threads, fix your email client. Moreover, it is a direct violation of RFC 2822: In all cases, it is the meaning that the sender of the message wishes to convey Please come on: how many users actually know that there exists an ID and REFERENCE header in a reply, and use them to mean anything? So ignorance is an excuse now and we should all adopt the lowest common denominator? Please use your imagination instead of brandishing RFCs ;-) I don't have to use my imagination, we have all seen the damage rewriting headers can do. Those that pay attention can see it every day again on this list. The problem with charsets not being preserved on cf-talk can be attributed to stripping the charset out of the message header. The problem with line wrapping not being preserved on cf-talk can be attributed to removal of the formatting information from the headers. The problem with cf-talk email being tagged as spam can be attributed to removing header lines. You can choose not to act on a header that is send to you. Fix your email client if you don't like the threading. Read the online archives that behave according to Michaels rules for all I care. But don't force others to follow your threading rules by taking away the information to thread in the way they want. Jochem ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232681 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Suggestion for the list
When a message contains a References header, you have the choice to ignore it. Wrong: I have the choice to view thread using ALL references, or ignore ALL references and view NO thread at all. I haven't seen so far a message reader that would allow me to break threads at messages having a new subject. The purpose of the exercice would be to remove illegitimate References in messages sent by people even ignoring their existence. So ignorance is an excuse now and we should all adopt the lowest common denominator? No, ignarance is a nuisance that annoy everybody with new threads hidden in other threads. THIS is the lowest common denominator that we are all forced to adopt. The problem with charsets not being preserved Who was talking about charset? The problem with cf-talk email being tagged as spam can be attributed to removing header lines. You are completely out of topic. We are talking about removing a reference header in a message that shouldn't have it and was not intended by the sender. A message with no reference header is perfectly legal. Any new message sent over the Internet has no reference header anyway. Horsing around with other kind headers is an other story. You can choose not to act on a header that is send to you. Fix your email client if you don't like the threading. If you know one that shows threads but gives you an option to break them when the subject changes, please tell me which one. I recently switched to FireFox, and I'm still looking for such an option. -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232684 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Suggestion for the list
Claude Schneegans said: The purpose of the exercice would be to remove illegitimate References in messages sent by people even ignoring their existence. And the suggested mechanism would guarantee that legitimate References headers deliberately sent would also be removed. The problem with charsets not being preserved Who was talking about charset? People that use them have on numerous occasions (both on and off list) complained about the fact that the charset is stripped from the Content-type header. The problem with cf-talk email being tagged as spam can be attributed to removing header lines. You are completely out of topic. No I am not. You asked me to use my imagination instead of refering to RFCs. The fact that I don't have to use my imagination but can point to unwanted side-effects of altering headers that we already experience on this very list should be reason to think twice before adding even more alterations. You can choose not to act on a header that is send to you. Fix your email client if you don't like the threading. If you know one that shows threads but gives you an option to break them when the subject changes, please tell me which one. You can modify any of the open source email clients you want, but personally I would look into implementing it in the Message Delivery Agent instead of the client. That way it works the same even if you use for instance webmail. Jochem ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232686 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Suggestion for the list
If you don't like the way your email client threads, fix your email client. sarcasm Wait while I head to Redmond and do that...hmm, maybe not. Well, wait will I go to the Googleplex...darn, foiled again. Just a sec, I've got to find my FSF membership card... /sarcasm -- [INFO] -- Access Manager: This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A2 ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232700 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Suggestion for the list
Please lets not fight between ourselves when it comes to the features or lack of them that I've implimented for the lists. Why do I remove the headers and formatting? Because the formatting is done through HTML and the HTML tends to be bloated suckware from companies such as microsoft. I'm not about to let random HTML onto a forums without control. This is why posts are text only. As for the message-id/refrences/refer-id/etc. I'll think it over as to which way to go. As it stands, there is no setting for threads with different subjects to not only play well together but to have the new subject shown. Maybe that should be added. Maybe the ability to read a [solved] header on the subject and use that as a flag for the thread. I'm open to suggestions and would love for people to send them to me off list. but PLEASE don't get into OT fights over this. There is no need and only makes me upset. Just read my Blog of Fusion articles on Duck Typing or stupid magazine articles to see what happens when I'm upset. :) Thank you ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232706 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Suggestion for the list
I would think there oughta be a way to tell if a person is hijacking a thread, or if it's a minor modification of an original thread. I could be wrong, but I'd think it could be done. Sure, it could, and it SHOULD be done. -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232714 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Suggestion for the list
I'm open to suggestions and would love for people to send them to me off list. Thanks, this is a wise and imaginative decision ;-) -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232715 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Suggestion for the list
I would think there oughta be a way to tell if a person is hijacking a thread, or if it's a minor modification of an original thread. I could be wrong, but I'd think it could be done. Sure, it could, and it SHOULD be done. How on earth would you do this? If I didn't quote the above text, but just had this response, what kind of program logic would determine whether it's on-topic for the thread? Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232716 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Suggestion for the list
The only way is the subject. You can do a diff on the subject and see how much of it changed. So that if you add Solved: or Spam: or Re: or Fwd: to the subject line, it doesn't change the thread. But if somebody creates a brand new subject, it should be a brand new thread. But in general, people should not be lazy and have the cf-talk within easy reach when creating a thread. Russ -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 12:13 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Suggestion for the list I would think there oughta be a way to tell if a person is hijacking a thread, or if it's a minor modification of an original thread. I could be wrong, but I'd think it could be done. Sure, it could, and it SHOULD be done. How on earth would you do this? If I didn't quote the above text, but just had this response, what kind of program logic would determine whether it's on-topic for the thread? Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232718 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Suggestion for the list
The only way is the subject. You can do a diff on the subject and see how much of it changed. So that if you add Solved: or Spam: or Re: or Fwd: to the subject line, it doesn't change the thread. But if somebody creates a brand new subject, it should be a brand new thread. My point is simply that this isn't something that can easily be solved by programming. If I leave the subject alone, or if my mail reader puts RE: in front of it, it would be a non-trivial problem for a program to determine whether the body text is relevant to the subject. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232720 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Suggestion for the list
Why not? I learnt a heck of a lot from it! George On 2/17/06, Aaron Roberson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't beleive you guys are still talking about this... -Aaron On 2/17/06, Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I haven't read through the entire thread, but I though the problems were mostly not because people start talking about something irrelevant in the same thread (which you can't solve by programming), but when people reply to an old thread to start a completely new thread (with a brand new subject). The issue was that the same messageid is kept in the headers, and some programs would think it's the same thread. Therefore the message id needs to be stripped out for threads like this and started anew. That sounds somewhat reasonable - I haven't read through the entire thread either. People do, however, legitimately change thread subject line on occasion without changing the actual topic of the thread. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232735 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Suggestion for the list
So far it seems like we're stuck with the same 2 options: A. Remove MessageID from header so people can safely reply to start a new thread. B. Keep MessageID in header so that people can change the subject slightly and have the message stay in the same thread. I would vote for option A because it seems like that would make things run better even if it's not correct. Jochem, I'm not sure how removing the MessageID would: - Screw up charsets - put mail in junk - influence line-wrapping Cheers, Baz -Original Message- From: George Abraham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 2:24 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Suggestion for the list Why not? I learnt a heck of a lot from it! George On 2/17/06, Aaron Roberson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't beleive you guys are still talking about this... -Aaron On 2/17/06, Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I haven't read through the entire thread, but I though the problems were mostly not because people start talking about something irrelevant in the same thread (which you can't solve by programming), but when people reply to an old thread to start a completely new thread (with a brand new subject). The issue was that the same messageid is kept in the headers, and some programs would think it's the same thread. Therefore the message id needs to be stripped out for threads like this and started anew. That sounds somewhat reasonable - I haven't read through the entire thread either. People do, however, legitimately change thread subject line on occasion without changing the actual topic of the thread. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232747 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Suggestion for the list
I would vote for option A because it seems like that would make things run better even if it's not correct. You are essentially right except about the detail that it is the Reference: header which should be removed, not the message-Id. Every message should have a message-Id, so it can be used by replies in the reference header. Actually, you just proved one point: many people don't really know about headers ;-) -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232752 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Suggestion for the list
That's the way I coded the list already. This is why you see a single thread that is started as ot: continued in some cases as a seperate thread without the ot. The reason is that some mail clients strip out anything before a colon (re:) and place their own re: after it. So the list order of operation is: 1. message have a reply id and the message that is its parent has the same subject result: thread it 2. Message has no reply id but has a subject that already exists for the last week result: add it as a 0 level message in the thread (i.e. new parent) 3. message has a reply id but different subject. result: new thread Hi, I know, when one needs to start a new subject, it is much easier to reply any message and change the subject than start a new message and look for the list address in one's address book. The problem is that the reply still contains a reference to the message supposedly replied to, and remains in the same thread. This is not convenient when one is looking back at threads later. My suggestion, if it is possible, would be to remove the References: header from any message when the subject is not the same (Except for Re:) before resending it to members. This way, it will look like a true new subject for all. Example : Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232476 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Suggestion for the list
I know, when one needs to start a new subject, it is much easier to reply any message and change the subject than start a new message and look for the list address in one's address book. If you use a client like Mozilla's Thunderbird (or Outlook 2003), you get auto-complete for email addresses. All I have to do is type 'cf-talk' in the 'To:' field, and the correct address pops up. :) -- This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A1. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232483 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Suggestion for the list
Another list 'feature'. I rewrite the TO address for the list so no matter how you send it to CF-Talk, it will always be reformatted to the same name for display and sorting. This makes it easy to filter the list and avoids the need for a [list name] in brackets on each subject line (a waste of space in many cases). If you use a client like Mozilla's Thunderbird (or Outlook 2003), you get auto-complete for email addresses. All I have to do is type 'cf-talk' in the 'To:' field, and the correct address pops up. :) ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232484 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Suggestion for the list
That's the way I coded the list already. Ok, then may be there is still room for some improvement in the algorithm; Take the thread burning the midnight oil on my chat room for instance, there are 2 new subjects started in it : tag to allow access to foxpro .dbf and Number formatting bugs There are also people starting a new quastion and not event changing the subject. I suppose there is nothing one can do. -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232490 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
It doesn't always work though (WAS Re: Suggestion for the list)
the OT and other things don't always work... I saw a thread in the middle of my Burning the midnight oil thread with a totally different subject. Maybe it's just Mozilla organizing stuff by thread id or something. Rick ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232491 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Suggestion for the list
If you use a client like Mozilla's Thunderbird I know, I have TB, and I always start a new thread whwn I have a question, the problem is caused by people not having TB ;-) -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232493 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: It doesn't always work though (WAS Re: Suggestion for the list)
Ah, that is a bug. When I layed out how I handle threading, it's how I handle it for the list archives. When a message gets 'thrown' to a new subject, the code keeps the reply id rather than sets it to null. This causes the new thread to be part of the old one in some mail clients. I'll alter the code to blank out the reply id when the message forces a new subject. the OT and other things don't always work... I saw a thread in the middle of my Burning the midnight oil thread with a totally different subject. Maybe it's just Mozilla organizing stuff by thread id or something. Rick ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232499 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Suggestion for the list
A bug in my thinking. I wrote the code for the archives rather than the mail client and even though a message might force a new thread in the archives, it keeps the old reply id. I'll have that fixed. That's the way I coded the list already. Ok, then may be there is still room for some improvement in the algorithm; Take the thread burning the midnight oil on my chat room for instance, there are 2 new subjects started in it : tag to allow access to foxpro .dbf and Number formatting bugs There are also people starting a new quastion and not event changing the subject. I suppose there is nothing one can do. -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232502 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: It doesn't always work though (WAS Re: Suggestion for the list)
Rick Root wrote: the OT and other things don't always work... I saw a thread in the middle of my Burning the midnight oil thread with a totally different subject. Maybe it's just Mozilla organizing stuff by thread id or something. note to Michael - this thread is organized within my thread display in Thunderbird with the same messages Suggestion for the list Maybe it would be wise to check the subject and actually change or remove the References: header... rick ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232505 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: It doesn't always work though (WAS Re: Suggestion for the list)
the code keeps the reply id rather than sets it to null. Is it really reply-id ? I see a Reply-to, but this is different. I see a header References: which matches Message-ID: I think the References: header should be removed, not blanked, but removed. -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232511 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: It doesn't always work though (WAS Re: Suggestion for the list)
That's the plan Maybe it would be wise to check the subject and actually change or remove the References: header... rick ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232512 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Suggestion for the list
I'll have that fixed. Thanks, that will be greatly appreciated ;-) -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232513 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: It doesn't always work though (WAS Re: Suggestion for the list)
It's actually all 3. My code checks for each but when I talk, I just say reply id so as to not go into it. the code keeps the reply id rather than sets it to null. Is it really reply-id ? I see a Reply-to, but this is different. I see a header References: which matches Message-ID: I think the References: header should be removed, not blanked, but removed. -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232521 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: It doesn't always work though (WAS Re: Suggestion for the list)
Trawl On 2/16/06, Claude Schneegans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the code keeps the reply id rather than sets it to null. Is it really reply-id ? I see a Reply-to, but this is different. I see a header References: which matches Message-ID: I think the References: header should be removed, not blanked, but removed. -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232541 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Suggestion for the list
3. message has a reply id but different subject. result: new thread I think that changing this would result in a lot of initial confusion for lazy people but eventually would pay off. I hate when the same conversation is spread out across multiple threads, as this one is too. Should be: Message has a reply id but different subject. result: thread it. Why should we always accommodate for lazy people. It makes me think of quirks mode in Internet Explorer. My 2 cents -Aaron On 2/16/06, Claude Schneegans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll have that fixed. Thanks, that will be greatly appreciated ;-) -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232547 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: It doesn't always work though (WAS Re: Suggestion for the list)
Trawl Pardon me? -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232564 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Suggestion for the list
Message has a reply id but different subject. result: thread it. I don't see your point. If it has a new subject, it should start a new thread, wether it is a physical reply to any other message, no? -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232568 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Suggestion for the list
Until reading all your comments, I actually didn't know there was secret code in the header to identify threads - I thought it was ok to reply and change subject. I bet a lot of the 'lazy' people are in the same boat. Now I know, and that's half the battle. Baz -Original Message- From: Claude Schneegans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 3:20 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Suggestion for the list Message has a reply id but different subject. result: thread it. I don't see your point. If it has a new subject, it should start a new thread, wether it is a physical reply to any other message, no? -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232588 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Suggestion for the list
No, what if I wanted to declare a thread that began with a question as SOLVED or ANSWERED I see your point, but in IMO, loosing this possibility would be minor compared to the advantages of automaically create new threads for new conversations. By the way, I do not see people bother noticing their qustion is solved or answered very often ;-) But since this thread is about suggestions, how about eliminating all upper case characters from the subject before comparing them ? Then people like you who take the trouble of noticing others the question is answered would know that if the use upper case, the message will remain in the same thread. People who change the subject in the same thread do not use upper case generally. -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232615 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Suggestion for the list
Claude Schneegans wrote: I know, when one needs to start a new subject, it is much easier to reply any message and change the subject than start a new message and look for the list address in one's address book. The problem is that the reply still contains a reference to the message supposedly replied to, and remains in the same thread. This is not convenient when one is looking back at threads later. If you don't find that convenient when looking back at threads, why don't you get an email client that threads the way you want it to thread? My suggestion, if it is possible, would be to remove the References: header from any message when the subject is not the same (Except for Re:) before resending it to members. This way, it will look like a true new subject for all. That would mean I would loose the ability to recognize and prioritize responses to messages I sent (their References header matches my messageID). Jochem ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232622 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Suggestion for the list
Please don't. If somebody adds [SOLVED] or something to the subject, it still has to go in the same thread. Moreover, it is a direct violation of RFC 2822: quote In all cases, it is the meaning that the sender of the message wishes to convey (i.e., whether this is the same message or a different message) that determines whether or not the Message-ID: field changes, not any particular syntactic difference that appears (or does not appear) in the message. /quote RFC 2822, 3.6.4 I would think there oughta be a way to tell if a person is hijacking a thread, or if it's a minor modification of an original thread. I could be wrong, but I'd think it could be done. This all started with people saying gmail threading is hosed by this stuff. My 2 cents: I tried using gmail for mailing lists, but I didn't like it. I am very anal about using filters to sort incoming messages. Gmail allows this (i.e., put all cf-talk messages in their own folder). However, you don't get a new message alert if the message skips the inbox. So I was always finding a load of messages I didn't know about. The reason I use alerts is so that I don't HAVE to look at my inbox every 5 minutes. However, I do use gmail for a lot of non-mailing list email, and I love it. - [INFO] -- Access Manager: This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A2 ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232623 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Suggestion for the list
Please don't. If somebody adds [SOLVED] or something to the subject, it still has to go in the same thread. I would say that 1. only a few percentage of modified subjects are modified for that purpose. 2. in almost all cases a SOLVED question actually starts a completely different conversation any way ;-) 3. Most of the time, modified subjects are completely new subjects Moreover, it is a direct violation of RFC 2822: In all cases, it is the meaning that the sender of the message wishes to convey Please come on: how many users actually know that there exists an ID and REFERENCE header in a reply, and use them to mean anything? How many even care about headers in messages? ;-) Please use your imagination instead of brandishing RFCs ;-) There are plenty of options and conventions one could imagine to keep modified subjects in the same thread if we want: - uppercase, or brackets, etc. - if the new subject contains the old one, for instance mySubject SOLVED in thread myThread would not create a new thread, but I know nothing about threads anyway woul create a new one. The idea is that people wanting to definitely stay in the new thread would know how to do, others wanting to start a new thread don't even know they don't. -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thanks. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:232640 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
