Re: SecretAgents recommendation?
Hey Doug, I seem to recall a rather heated debate (on cf-talk) about whether or not it was a good idea to have an army of developers develop an app. Personally I think it's a horrible idea because IMHO too many hands in the cookie jar makes for a big mess...inconsistent coding...lack of knowledge of what others are doing (loss of efficient code resuse)...and so on. Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:253048 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: SecretAgents recommendation?
I believe SecretAgents is run by Steve Nelson of Fusebox fame. If he's the person behind it, I wouldn't heistate to work with him at all. Rey... Doug Boude (rhymes with 'loud') wrote: > I was wondering if anybody has firsthand (secondhand will also be accepted) > knowledge of whether or not it would be a recommended path to entrust > SecretAgents.com with a large project? Their concept sounds great, just > wondered if anyone had any actual real world experience executing that > concept with them? I'm primarily interested in experience from a Project > Management role, but any experience is much appreciated. > > ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:253065 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: SecretAgents recommendation?
It is not a problem if they all follow a defined standard etc. What is your limit? If the process/docs are good enough an army of developers should be able to work together no worries. "This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Oriel House, 26 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DL, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions." Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Bryan Stevenson To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed Sep 13 19:55:29 2006 Subject: Re: SecretAgents recommendation? Hey Doug, I seem to recall a rather heated debate (on cf-talk) about whether or not it was a good idea to have an army of developers develop an app. Personally I think it's a horrible idea because IMHO too many hands in the cookie jar makes for a big mess...inconsistent coding...lack of knowledge of what others are doing (loss of efficient code resuse)...and so on. Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:253074 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: SecretAgents recommendation?
> It is not a problem if they all follow a defined standard etc. > > What is your limit? If the process/docs are good enough an army of > developers should be able to work together no worries. Yep and a spec that perfect occurs how often in real life?? and everyone will of course iterpret it the same way right?? For me this is a computer science theory versus computer science reality issueIMHO this concept does not work in the real world...only in the dream land of theory. I don't pay for "ifs" Rob...just concrete stuff ;-) Each to their own...I don't have to use them nor will IDoug is getting opinions...it's all good Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:253075 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: SecretAgents recommendation?
err...Neil...not Rob (damn that last name first in your name..hehe) Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com - Original Message - From: "Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 1:53 PM Subject: Re: SecretAgents recommendation? > It is not a problem if they all follow a defined standard etc. > > What is your limit? If the process/docs are good enough an army of > developers should be able to work together no worries. > > > > > > > > > "This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Oriel House, 26 The Quadrant, > Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DL, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, > Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is > confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the > intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note > that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the > information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have > received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call > our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this > communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions." > Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com > > -Original Message- > From: Bryan Stevenson > To: CF-Talk > Sent: Wed Sep 13 19:55:29 2006 > Subject: Re: SecretAgents recommendation? > > Hey Doug, > > I seem to recall a rather heated debate (on cf-talk) about whether or not it > was > a good idea to have an army of developers develop an app. > > Personally I think it's a horrible idea because IMHO too many hands in the > cookie jar makes for a big mess...inconsistent coding...lack of knowledge of > > what others are doing (loss of efficient code resuse)...and so on. > > Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. > VP & Director of E-Commerce Development > Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. > phone: 250.480.0642 > fax: 250.480.1264 > cell: 250.920.8830 > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > web: www.electricedgesystems.com > > > > > ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:253076 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: SecretAgents recommendation?
If the process/docs are good enough an army of developers should be able to work together no worries. Man, I wish I had requirements that good BEFORE the project started at my job. Our motto here is "You get to work on it, we'll go find out what they want." :) ~Brad ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:253077 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: SecretAgents recommendation?
You'd still have to architect and completely document your project. Your documentation must be extremely detailed, and then someone else simply types up what your documentation specifies. If I remember right, the developers have to "prove" their level of proficiency with CF and with fusedoc and you have to create the test harness and documentation for every fuse you will need. The architecting is done; all that remains is to type in the code... it's fairly straight forward at that point. Other than the differences between coding styles you should end up with a manageable and fairly consistent application. That's the whole point of Fusebox :) My knowledge of Secret Agents is second hand at best.. I watched a friend work a couple of fuses that were assigned to him a while back. YMMV Thanks! Christine Davis ColdFusion Lead Nations Technical Services Prairie Village, KS 913-748-8044 ext 4703 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Doug Boude (rhymes with 'loud') [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 1:39 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: SecretAgents recommendation? I was wondering if anybody has firsthand (secondhand will also be accepted) knowledge of whether or not it would be a recommended path to entrust SecretAgents.com with a large project? Their concept sounds great, just wondered if anyone had any actual real world experience executing that concept with them? I'm primarily interested in experience from a Project Management role, but any experience is much appreciated. ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:253078 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: SecretAgents recommendation?
> If the process/docs are good enough an army of developers > should be able to work together no worries. Development, like anything else, is subject to the law of diminishing returns. It is simply impossible for process and documentation to scale infinitely. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:253082 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: SecretAgents recommendation?
Lol, the wonders of a Scottish/Italian name :-) "This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Oriel House, 26 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DL, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions." Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Bryan Stevenson To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed Sep 13 22:04:16 2006 Subject: Re: SecretAgents recommendation? err...Neil...not Rob (damn that last name first in your name..hehe) Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com - Original Message - From: "Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 1:53 PM Subject: Re: SecretAgents recommendation? > It is not a problem if they all follow a defined standard etc. > > What is your limit? If the process/docs are good enough an army of > developers should be able to work together no worries. > > > > > > > > > "This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Oriel House, 26 The Quadrant, > Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DL, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, > Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is > confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the > intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note > that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the > information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have > received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call > our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this > communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions." > Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com > > -Original Message- > From: Bryan Stevenson > To: CF-Talk > Sent: Wed Sep 13 19:55:29 2006 > Subject: Re: SecretAgents recommendation? > > Hey Doug, > > I seem to recall a rather heated debate (on cf-talk) about whether or not it > was > a good idea to have an army of developers develop an app. > > Personally I think it's a horrible idea because IMHO too many hands in the > cookie jar makes for a big mess...inconsistent coding...lack of knowledge of > > what others are doing (loss of efficient code resuse)...and so on. > > Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. > VP & Director of E-Commerce Development > Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. > phone: 250.480.0642 > fax: 250.480.1264 > cell: 250.920.8830 > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > web: www.electricedgesystems.com > > > > > ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:253083 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: SecretAgents recommendation?
Scottish/Italian eh...I bet the dinner table debates can get pretty heated ;-) my wife is Scottish/Irish (not always a calm combination...hehe) Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:253084 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: SecretAgents recommendation?
On 9/13/06, Brad Wood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Man, I wish I had requirements that good BEFORE the project started at > my job. Our motto here is "You get to work on it, we'll go find out what > they want." :) Preach on, brother! The ironic part is that we've been more successful at launching because we jump in, and have the users jump in, before we wait to figure out what it is we're doing. Just having something there, even if it's not in any shape way or form similar to what will be there in the end, seems to motivate. Self-motivate, even. To an extent of course, but still. If you wait for people to figure out what they want, you'll wait forever. If you start firing (tat tat tat tat), they at least usually get what they need. But it is a process. A living process. Don't get me wrong, a plan is essential, but the Art of War hit it on the head, A plan is just a plan, nothing in and of itself. Sorta. Flow like water, esse. Flow. Armies might be able to flow, but I think it would take a great general. Or maybe lots of great soldiers, now that I think about it. Yeah, that's probably essential-er. Freedom in conformity, or some other equally oxymoronic statement. Woot. Guess I should get back to work. -den ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:253091 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: SecretAgents recommendation?
Absolutely true, a client doesn't know what they want most of the time, until you have given them something, then they tell you whether it is right or wrong. Its all well and good to create giant functionality documents, but it's rather hard if the client doesn't really know what they want, and they just go along with whatever you tell them cozz they think it sounds good. Then it all changes anyway. They usually need to see something first. Sometimes your lucky and you can nail it all down before you start work, but I have generally found that creating a basic spec so you have a general idea, then knocking up a non functional layout (wireframe) to give the client an idea, and then use that to create a functionality document is much easier. Russ -Original Message- From: Denny Valliant [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 14 September 2006 06:18 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SecretAgents recommendation? On 9/13/06, Brad Wood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Man, I wish I had requirements that good BEFORE the project started at > my job. Our motto here is "You get to work on it, we'll go find out > what they want." :) Preach on, brother! The ironic part is that we've been more successful at launching because we jump in, and have the users jump in, before we wait to figure out what it is we're doing. Just having something there, even if it's not in any shape way or form similar to what will be there in the end, seems to motivate. Self-motivate, even. To an extent of course, but still. If you wait for people to figure out what they want, you'll wait forever. If you start firing (tat tat tat tat), they at least usually get what they need. But it is a process. A living process. Don't get me wrong, a plan is essential, but the Art of War hit it on the head, A plan is just a plan, nothing in and of itself. Sorta. Flow like water, esse. Flow. Armies might be able to flow, but I think it would take a great general. Or maybe lots of great soldiers, now that I think about it. Yeah, that's probably essential-er. Freedom in conformity, or some other equally oxymoronic statement. Woot. Guess I should get back to work. -den ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:253093 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
