Re: [cfaussie] Frameworks and MVC
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 8:18 PM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.au wrote:
we had a demo of FW/1 at our CFUG last week and even though yes it is
stripped down regarding the framework itself, you still had the folder
structure as in
root
- views
- controller
and so on, and just to get a simple output still required too many files for
my liking.
Well, the simplest Hello World FW/1 app is just:
// Application.cfc:
component extends=framework { this.name = 'myapp'; }
!--- empty index.cfm ---
!--- views/main/default.cfm ---
h1Hello World!/h1
You have basically one view file per page in your application and for
logic you can have a single CFC (controllers/main.cfc) with a method
for each page that you want to execute code for.
I can't imagine anything simpler. You pretty much couldn't write
simpler code if you weren't using a framework so I find your complaint
a bit puzzling (I'm not saying your opinion isn't valid, just trying
to dig a bit more into want you really don't like about a couple of
folders).
I also didn't like the way it threw all of the scoped variables
into the request scope.
It doesn't. Like every CFML framework out there, it combines URL and
form scope to make control logic simpler and it puts them into a
single variable - request.context - so there's no name conflicts and
scoped vars overriding others. Admittedly, FW/1 does use a few
additional request variables for its own purpose (which are all
clearly documented) and no one using FW/1 has complained about that
yet.
I want to be able to call
the controller myself rather than relying on files being in certain places
to be able to call them
As Blair says, you'll probably need to roll your own framework because
you're not going to like anything that's out there, based on the
things you're saying.
And because all the frameworks do things the same way (in those areas
at least) and lots of people like that approach, you may want to think
harder about why you don't want to develop apps the same way that
thousands of other developers do... just sayin' :)
--
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive.
-- Margaret Atwood
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[cfaussie] Frameworks and MVC
Is there a framework that does not use MVC? I am open to the thought of utilising a framework though i hate the idea of the MVC model. Personally i just think there are too many files to work with. I don't want this to turn into a frameworks fight, just asking the question on what's available. Steve -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Frameworks and MVC
I'm not 100% sure how a web app could be anything other than some form of MVC, even one without a framework. When you say 'MVC', what do you mean? Trying to work out what you want to avoid. Mark On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.au wrote: Is there a framework that does not use MVC? I am open to the thought of utilising a framework though i hate the idea of the MVC model. Personally i just think there are too many files to work with. I don't want this to turn into a frameworks fight, just asking the question on what's available. Steve -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] Frameworks and MVC
I am trying to avoid the MVC folder structure and all the files that go along with it as i find it just complicates things (not saying it's bad, just that i'm not a fan). I guess im looking for something that is more like a facade than an actual framework _ From: Mark Mandel [mailto:mark.man...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 2 June 2010 12:12 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Frameworks and MVC I'm not 100% sure how a web app could be anything other than some form of MVC, even one without a framework. When you say 'MVC', what do you mean? Trying to work out what you want to avoid. Mark On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.au wrote: Is there a framework that does not use MVC? I am open to the thought of utilising a framework though i hate the idea of the MVC model. Personally i just think there are too many files to work with. I don't want this to turn into a frameworks fight, just asking the question on what's available. Steve -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:cfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Frameworks and MVC
Actually, Fusebox can be used non-mvc and my old, earlier Fusebox versions code is all non-mvc. (I understand Mark's point, ie, request/response basically means that there is an implied controller, model and view, even if this isn't formalised.) Given that the latest Fusebox can be used without xml, I'm pretty sure you could set it up that way without mvc. I would personally find it harder now that I'm really accustomed to the mvc way of thinking, and the overhead of mvc with Fusebox is mostly about directories and a couple of config files (although the convention approach now possible removes even the extra configs), you still use the same amount of code overall except for this. What is it you actually want from a framework Steve? Peter On 2 June 2010 12:12, Mark Mandel mark.man...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not 100% sure how a web app could be anything other than some form of MVC, even one without a framework. When you say 'MVC', what do you mean? Trying to work out what you want to avoid. Mark On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.auwrote: Is there a framework that does not use MVC? I am open to the thought of utilising a framework though i hate the idea of the MVC model. Personally i just think there are too many files to work with. I don't want this to turn into a frameworks fight, just asking the question on what's available. Steve -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] Frameworks and MVC
Conceptually i agree though i just dont want to use the folder structure that all of the MVC frameworks tend to use. I like the idea of having a controller that i can swap out different models with (database or whatever), i just dont like the requirement to have files in all of those folders. I just find it messy. Again, not looking for this to become another framework war, just looking for alternatives, something to couple the views to the model, just a controller _ From: Peter Robertson [mailto:pe...@p-robertson.com] Sent: Wednesday, 2 June 2010 12:26 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Frameworks and MVC Actually, Fusebox can be used non-mvc and my old, earlier Fusebox versions code is all non-mvc. (I understand Mark's point, ie, request/response basically means that there is an implied controller, model and view, even if this isn't formalised.) Given that the latest Fusebox can be used without xml, I'm pretty sure you could set it up that way without mvc. I would personally find it harder now that I'm really accustomed to the mvc way of thinking, and the overhead of mvc with Fusebox is mostly about directories and a couple of config files (although the convention approach now possible removes even the extra configs), you still use the same amount of code overall except for this. What is it you actually want from a framework Steve? Peter On 2 June 2010 12:12, Mark Mandel mark.man...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not 100% sure how a web app could be anything other than some form of MVC, even one without a framework. When you say 'MVC', what do you mean? Trying to work out what you want to avoid. Mark On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.au wrote: Is there a framework that does not use MVC? I am open to the thought of utilising a framework though i hate the idea of the MVC model. Personally i just think there are too many files to work with. I don't want this to turn into a frameworks fight, just asking the question on what's available. Steve -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:cfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:cfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Frameworks and MVC
Fair enough - So the million dollar question is - what would be your ideal folder structure? (or what would be your ideal application controller flow?) Mark On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 12:38 PM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.au wrote: Conceptually i agree though i just dont want to use the folder structure that all of the MVC frameworks tend to use. I like the idea of having a controller that i can swap out different models with (database or whatever), i just dont like the requirement to have files in all of those folders. I just find it messy. Again, not looking for this to become another framework war, just looking for alternatives, something to couple the views to the model, just a controller -- *From:* Peter Robertson [mailto:pe...@p-robertson.com] *Sent:* Wednesday, 2 June 2010 12:26 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: [cfaussie] Frameworks and MVC Actually, Fusebox can be used non-mvc and my old, earlier Fusebox versions code is all non-mvc. (I understand Mark's point, ie, request/response basically means that there is an implied controller, model and view, even if this isn't formalised.) Given that the latest Fusebox can be used without xml, I'm pretty sure you could set it up that way without mvc. I would personally find it harder now that I'm really accustomed to the mvc way of thinking, and the overhead of mvc with Fusebox is mostly about directories and a couple of config files (although the convention approach now possible removes even the extra configs), you still use the same amount of code overall except for this. What is it you actually want from a framework Steve? Peter On 2 June 2010 12:12, Mark Mandel mark.man...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not 100% sure how a web app could be anything other than some form of MVC, even one without a framework. When you say 'MVC', what do you mean? Trying to work out what you want to avoid. Mark On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.auwrote: Is there a framework that does not use MVC? I am open to the thought of utilising a framework though i hate the idea of the MVC model. Personally i just think there are too many files to work with. I don't want this to turn into a frameworks fight, just asking the question on what's available. Steve -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] Frameworks and MVC
Are you aware of FW/1? http://fw1.riaforge.org/ It is still MVC, but it's a single file. It's just not clear which is the bigger real pain for you, MVC or lots of files. :-) With FW/1, the two are no longer mutually inclusive. /charlie From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Onnis Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 10:39 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [cfaussie] Frameworks and MVC Conceptually i agree though i just dont want to use the folder structure that all of the MVC frameworks tend to use. I like the idea of having a controller that i can swap out different models with (database or whatever), i just dont like the requirement to have files in all of those folders. I just find it messy. Again, not looking for this to become another framework war, just looking for alternatives, something to couple the views to the model, just a controller _ From: Peter Robertson [mailto:pe...@p-robertson.com] Sent: Wednesday, 2 June 2010 12:26 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Frameworks and MVC Actually, Fusebox can be used non-mvc and my old, earlier Fusebox versions code is all non-mvc. (I understand Mark's point, ie, request/response basically means that there is an implied controller, model and view, even if this isn't formalised.) Given that the latest Fusebox can be used without xml, I'm pretty sure you could set it up that way without mvc. I would personally find it harder now that I'm really accustomed to the mvc way of thinking, and the overhead of mvc with Fusebox is mostly about directories and a couple of config files (although the convention approach now possible removes even the extra configs), you still use the same amount of code overall except for this. What is it you actually want from a framework Steve? Peter On 2 June 2010 12:12, Mark Mandel mark.man...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not 100% sure how a web app could be anything other than some form of MVC, even one without a framework. When you say 'MVC', what do you mean? Trying to work out what you want to avoid. Mark On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.au wrote: Is there a framework that does not use MVC? I am open to the thought of utilising a framework though i hate the idea of the MVC model. Personally i just think there are too many files to work with. I don't want this to turn into a frameworks fight, just asking the question on what's available. Steve -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:cfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:cfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Frameworks and MVC
On Jun 1, 2010, at Tue Jun 1, 10:58 PM, Andrew Myers wrote: It is extremely nice. Someone now just needs to write some rails style command line scripts for it. I'd do it myself but I have no idea how to. :-)) Well, when Railo 4 comes out with command line integration it should be pretty easy to add :-) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Frameworks and MVC
Tell me more? Is this like an REPL for cfscript? On Wed, 02 Jun 2010 13:08:37 +1000, Peter Bell pb...@systemsforge.com wrote: On Jun 1, 2010, at Tue Jun 1, 10:58 PM, Andrew Myers wrote: It is extremely nice. Someone now just needs to write some rails style command line scripts for it. I'd do it myself but I have no idea how to. :-)) Well, when Railo 4 comes out with command line integration it should be pretty easy to add :-) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] Frameworks and MVC
we had a demo of FW/1 at our CFUG last week and even though yes it is stripped down regarding the framework itself, you still had the folder structure as in root - views - controller and so on, and just to get a simple output still required too many files for my liking. I also didn't like the way it threw all of the scoped variables into the request scope. Just asking for trouble doing that if you ask me..having name conflicts and scoped vars overriding others because everything is in the request scope. I guess maybe i am looking for something that doesn't call things so implicitly. I want to be able to call the controller myself rather than relying on files being in certain places to be able to call them _ From: charlie arehart [mailto:charlie_li...@carehart.org] Sent: Wednesday, 2 June 2010 12:56 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [cfaussie] Frameworks and MVC Are you aware of FW/1? http://fw1.riaforge.org/ It is still MVC, but it's a single file. It's just not clear which is the bigger real pain for you, MVC or lots of files. :-) With FW/1, the two are no longer mutually inclusive. /charlie From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Onnis Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 10:39 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [cfaussie] Frameworks and MVC Conceptually i agree though i just dont want to use the folder structure that all of the MVC frameworks tend to use. I like the idea of having a controller that i can swap out different models with (database or whatever), i just dont like the requirement to have files in all of those folders. I just find it messy. Again, not looking for this to become another framework war, just looking for alternatives, something to couple the views to the model, just a controller _ From: Peter Robertson [mailto:pe...@p-robertson.com] Sent: Wednesday, 2 June 2010 12:26 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Frameworks and MVC Actually, Fusebox can be used non-mvc and my old, earlier Fusebox versions code is all non-mvc. (I understand Mark's point, ie, request/response basically means that there is an implied controller, model and view, even if this isn't formalised.) Given that the latest Fusebox can be used without xml, I'm pretty sure you could set it up that way without mvc. I would personally find it harder now that I'm really accustomed to the mvc way of thinking, and the overhead of mvc with Fusebox is mostly about directories and a couple of config files (although the convention approach now possible removes even the extra configs), you still use the same amount of code overall except for this. What is it you actually want from a framework Steve? Peter On 2 June 2010 12:12, Mark Mandel mark.man...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not 100% sure how a web app could be anything other than some form of MVC, even one without a framework. When you say 'MVC', what do you mean? Trying to work out what you want to avoid. Mark On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.au wrote: Is there a framework that does not use MVC? I am open to the thought of utilising a framework though i hate the idea of the MVC model. Personally i just think there are too many files to work with. I don't want this to turn into a frameworks fight, just asking the question on what's available. Steve -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:cfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:cfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr
Re: [cfaussie] Frameworks and MVC
It sounds like you have very particular requirements. You'll probably need to roll your own. Blair On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 1:18 PM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.au wrote: we had a demo of FW/1 at our CFUG last week and even though yes it is stripped down regarding the framework itself, you still had the folder structure as in root - views - controller and so on, and just to get a simple output still required too many files for my liking. I also didn't like the way it threw all of the scoped variables into the request scope. Just asking for trouble doing that if you ask me..having name conflicts and scoped vars overriding others because everything is in the request scope. I guess maybe i am looking for something that doesn't call things so implicitly. I want to be able to call the controller myself rather than relying on files being in certain places to be able to call them -- *From:* charlie arehart [mailto:charlie_li...@carehart.org] *Sent:* Wednesday, 2 June 2010 12:56 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* RE: [cfaussie] Frameworks and MVC Are you aware of FW/1? http://fw1.riaforge.org/ It is still MVC, but it’s a single file. It’s just not clear which is the bigger real pain for you, MVC or lots of files. :-) With FW/1, the two are no longer mutually inclusive. /charlie *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Onnis *Sent:* Tuesday, June 01, 2010 10:39 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* RE: [cfaussie] Frameworks and MVC Conceptually i agree though i just dont want to use the folder structure that all of the MVC frameworks tend to use. I like the idea of having a controller that i can swap out different models with (database or whatever), i just dont like the requirement to have files in all of those folders. I just find it messy. Again, not looking for this to become another framework war, just looking for alternatives, something to couple the views to the model, just a controller -- *From:* Peter Robertson [mailto:pe...@p-robertson.com] *Sent:* Wednesday, 2 June 2010 12:26 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: [cfaussie] Frameworks and MVC Actually, Fusebox can be used non-mvc and my old, earlier Fusebox versions code is all non-mvc. (I understand Mark's point, ie, request/response basically means that there is an implied controller, model and view, even if this isn't formalised.) Given that the latest Fusebox can be used without xml, I'm pretty sure you could set it up that way without mvc. I would personally find it harder now that I'm really accustomed to the mvc way of thinking, and the overhead of mvc with Fusebox is mostly about directories and a couple of config files (although the convention approach now possible removes even the extra configs), you still use the same amount of code overall except for this. What is it you actually want from a framework Steve? Peter On 2 June 2010 12:12, Mark Mandel mark.man...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not 100% sure how a web app could be anything other than some form of MVC, even one without a framework. When you say 'MVC', what do you mean? Trying to work out what you want to avoid. Mark On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.au wrote: Is there a framework that does not use MVC? I am open to the thought of utilising a framework though i hate the idea of the MVC model. Personally i just think there are too many files to work with. I don't want this to turn into a frameworks fight, just asking the question on what's available. Steve -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie
Re: [cfaussie] Frameworks and MVC
Steve, You will find that the folders (Conventions) are a pain when you first try to get into MVC, but the best thing that an MVC framework offers is separation of the logic, views etc. It means you can switch the entire business logic out and provide a more robust API in Java, and have to do little work to make that switch. With files that contain the logic, control and view it becomes to hard to maintain over time. Just my 2c, as I know it was daunting for me when I first started using MVC frameworks. On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 12:38 PM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.au wrote: Conceptually i agree though i just dont want to use the folder structure that all of the MVC frameworks tend to use. I like the idea of having a controller that i can swap out different models with (database or whatever), i just dont like the requirement to have files in all of those folders. I just find it messy. Again, not looking for this to become another framework war, just looking for alternatives, something to couple the views to the model, just a controller -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
