[cfaussie] Re: Recommendations for a CF Framework.
On Feb 17, 3:33 pm, Dale Fraser d...@fraser.id.au wrote: Find a framework that has more than 5 developers (so that you know it will be supported and maintained) Find one that has been around and used for 5 years (so that you know it has longevity) In the case of FarCry Core, it's been in continual development for almost 10 years, and is one of the few open source ColdFusion frameworks that is backed by commercial support and training :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] Re: Recommendations for a CF Framework.
People just don't get my humour We actually use Hibernate and Cold Spring I personally like fw1, think Coldbox is feature rich but a bit overwhelming Haven't played with Wheels, but it seems to be getting a lot of mentions of late, must be something to that. But people expect me to bag frameworks, so I aim to please. Regards Dale Fraser http://dale.fraser.id.au http://cfmldocs.com http://learncf.com http://flexcf.com -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Sent: Sunday, 19 February 2012 1:00 AM To: cfaussie Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Recommendations for a CF Framework. Not understanding the hate for frameworks @DaleFraser. I have great experiences using both Coldbox and CFWheels in production environments. ColdBox in particular is well-suited to enterprise scale production websites. IMO the purpose of a framework is to ease development (individually and across teams), incorporate proven methodologies and provide an extensible architecture. Why re-invent the wheel each and every time you need to spin up a website/app? In my case, I use Coldbox as our front-end, high availability application framework and CFWheels on the administrative back end. Both are fantastic, robust, have a great community and really bring ColdFusion into line with the times. I've also worked with Mach-II and it gets the big smackdown from Coldbox and CFWheels. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: Recommendations for a CF Framework.
Mark, what makes you think I was hating on FarCry? FarCry is f**king AWESOME, and to think otherwise is RETARDED. I guess people don't get my humour either :-) And yes, FarCry does use UUIDs all over the place, but it that's a good thing. It means no autonumber conflicts! -- Dennis On Feb 18, 2012 12:50 PM, Mark Picker mark.pic...@det.nsw.edu.au wrote: @Dennis. I don't understand the FarCry hate. What version are you talking about? We have been running FarCry from when it was just a CMS but have recently made the jump to 6.1.3. I do get that it can be confusing to someone who is new to it. Even though the documentation still needs some more love, it has gotten a lot better. I recently went through the Developer Jump Start course (available from the FarCry wiki) and was blown away yet again at how powerful FarCry is when you start to dig into it. To someone learning to use FarCry (6+), make sure you have a good look at application.fapi. Especially application.fapi.getContentObjects(). @Zac. Depends if your using Friendly URL's. Also depends if you use aliases (which is way easier to work with). Cheers Mark On Feb 17, 2:15 pm, Dennis Clark boomf...@gmail.com wrote: As others have said there are plenty of CF frameworks to choose from. One that hasn't been mentioned yet is FarCry. As a CMS it works well, but one non-scientific study found a strong correlation between prolonged exposure to FarCry and excessive use of expletives such as f**k, c**k, and dogr***er. The study was unable to prove or disprove causation, but recommends developers exposed to FarCry exercise caution and be on the lookout for these known symptoms. Hope that helps, -- Dennis On Feb 17, 2012 12:36 PM, MossyBlog scott.bar...@gmail.com wrote: Firstly, kudos for sticking it out with CF all these years! :) Secondly, I'm keen to brush the dust off my old CF skills and try it out again feeling more armed in the plethora of languages I've acquired over the years. That being said, I'm also keen to see what all the cool kids are using with regards to CF after market addons. Mach-II? or did i just show my age. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: Recommendations for a CF Framework.
+1 for FW/1. Been working with it and model-glue in the past. Both are great, but FW/1 is so efficient to to work with. On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 11:57 PM, Dennis Clark boomf...@gmail.com wrote: Mark, what makes you think I was hating on FarCry? FarCry is f**king AWESOME, and to think otherwise is RETARDED. I guess people don't get my humour either :-) And yes, FarCry does use UUIDs all over the place, but it that's a good thing. It means no autonumber conflicts! -- Dennis On Feb 18, 2012 12:50 PM, Mark Picker mark.pic...@det.nsw.edu.au wrote: @Dennis. I don't understand the FarCry hate. What version are you talking about? We have been running FarCry from when it was just a CMS but have recently made the jump to 6.1.3. I do get that it can be confusing to someone who is new to it. Even though the documentation still needs some more love, it has gotten a lot better. I recently went through the Developer Jump Start course (available from the FarCry wiki) and was blown away yet again at how powerful FarCry is when you start to dig into it. To someone learning to use FarCry (6+), make sure you have a good look at application.fapi. Especially application.fapi.getContentObjects(). @Zac. Depends if your using Friendly URL's. Also depends if you use aliases (which is way easier to work with). Cheers Mark On Feb 17, 2:15 pm, Dennis Clark boomf...@gmail.com wrote: As others have said there are plenty of CF frameworks to choose from. One that hasn't been mentioned yet is FarCry. As a CMS it works well, but one non-scientific study found a strong correlation between prolonged exposure to FarCry and excessive use of expletives such as f**k, c**k, and dogr***er. The study was unable to prove or disprove causation, but recommends developers exposed to FarCry exercise caution and be on the lookout for these known symptoms. Hope that helps, -- Dennis On Feb 17, 2012 12:36 PM, MossyBlog scott.bar...@gmail.com wrote: Firstly, kudos for sticking it out with CF all these years! :) Secondly, I'm keen to brush the dust off my old CF skills and try it out again feeling more armed in the plethora of languages I've acquired over the years. That being said, I'm also keen to see what all the cool kids are using with regards to CF after market addons. Mach-II? or did i just show my age. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: Recommendations for a CF Framework.
But it can have performance implications at the DB level. - If not sequential, Index fragmentation ensues. Page splits, too. - As the UUID is probably the clustering key, it gets added to all NCIs, which in turn become larger and slower. - Database gets bigger. That means less stuff in proc and data cache, more io, longer backups and disaster recovery procedure. That said, they are, indeed pretty useful to move stuff around. And using sequential UUID does a good job of limiting the damage. No idea what far cry does under the hood though, so I'll stop bitching. Tof On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 11:57 PM, Dennis Clark boomf...@gmail.com wrote: Mark, what makes you think I was hating on FarCry? FarCry is f**king AWESOME, and to think otherwise is RETARDED. I guess people don't get my humour either :-) And yes, FarCry does use UUIDs all over the place, but it that's a good thing. It means no autonumber conflicts! -- Dennis On Feb 18, 2012 12:50 PM, Mark Picker mark.pic...@det.nsw.edu.au wrote: @Dennis. I don't understand the FarCry hate. What version are you talking about? We have been running FarCry from when it was just a CMS but have recently made the jump to 6.1.3. I do get that it can be confusing to someone who is new to it. Even though the documentation still needs some more love, it has gotten a lot better. I recently went through the Developer Jump Start course (available from the FarCry wiki) and was blown away yet again at how powerful FarCry is when you start to dig into it. To someone learning to use FarCry (6+), make sure you have a good look at application.fapi. Especially application.fapi.getContentObjects(). @Zac. Depends if your using Friendly URL's. Also depends if you use aliases (which is way easier to work with). Cheers Mark On Feb 17, 2:15 pm, Dennis Clark boomf...@gmail.com wrote: As others have said there are plenty of CF frameworks to choose from. One that hasn't been mentioned yet is FarCry. As a CMS it works well, but one non-scientific study found a strong correlation between prolonged exposure to FarCry and excessive use of expletives such as f**k, c**k, and dogr***er. The study was unable to prove or disprove causation, but recommends developers exposed to FarCry exercise caution and be on the lookout for these known symptoms. Hope that helps, -- Dennis On Feb 17, 2012 12:36 PM, MossyBlog scott.bar...@gmail.com wrote: Firstly, kudos for sticking it out with CF all these years! :) Secondly, I'm keen to brush the dust off my old CF skills and try it out again feeling more armed in the plethora of languages I've acquired over the years. That being said, I'm also keen to see what all the cool kids are using with regards to CF after market addons. Mach-II? or did i just show my age. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
[cfaussie] Re: Recommendations for a CF Framework.
On Feb 20, 10:11 am, christophe albrech christophe.albr...@gmail.com wrote: But it can have performance implications at the DB level. - If not sequential, Index fragmentation ensues. Page splits, too. - As the UUID is probably the clustering key, it gets added to all NCIs, which in turn become larger and slower. - Database gets bigger. That means less stuff in proc and data cache, more io, longer backups and disaster recovery procedure. That said, they are, indeed pretty useful to move stuff around. And using sequential UUID does a good job of limiting the damage. No idea what far cry does under the hood though, so I'll stop bitching. Tof FarCry doesn't lock you into anything in this regard, you can avoid fragmentation and page splits by making objectid a non-clustered index and setting your clustered index to something more suitable, as you would do in any database that you needed to tune for performance. For those content types with millions of rows you'd also set bRefObjects to false in your component to avoid writing to FarCry's master table of objects and specify the content type name in any ORM related functions, instead of letting FarCry look it up automatically. cheers, Justin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: Recommendations for a CF Framework.
Yes, but as a rule of thumb (in most cases) I don't like having my clustered index on something else than the pk. That's most likely what you'll use to get to your data, which means that if you do put CIX on another column, you open the door to a world of pain in terms of bookmark look-ups. Just theoritical talk, though. I've never used farcry, thus have no idea how fast it is, or how well it scales. Tof On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Justin Carter justin.w.car...@gmail.comwrote: On Feb 20, 10:11 am, christophe albrech christophe.albr...@gmail.com wrote: But it can have performance implications at the DB level. - If not sequential, Index fragmentation ensues. Page splits, too. - As the UUID is probably the clustering key, it gets added to all NCIs, which in turn become larger and slower. - Database gets bigger. That means less stuff in proc and data cache, more io, longer backups and disaster recovery procedure. That said, they are, indeed pretty useful to move stuff around. And using sequential UUID does a good job of limiting the damage. No idea what far cry does under the hood though, so I'll stop bitching. Tof FarCry doesn't lock you into anything in this regard, you can avoid fragmentation and page splits by making objectid a non-clustered index and setting your clustered index to something more suitable, as you would do in any database that you needed to tune for performance. For those content types with millions of rows you'd also set bRefObjects to false in your component to avoid writing to FarCry's master table of objects and specify the content type name in any ORM related functions, instead of letting FarCry look it up automatically. cheers, Justin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
[cfaussie] Re: Recommendations for a CF Framework.
Yep, and it depends what you're optimising for; reads, writes, joins, all of the above! My point was that FarCry shouldn't stop you from being able to tune your database. Out of the box things work one particular way because it's sufficient for the majority of use cases, but if you need to do something different than the default you can. Create your own primary key, do whatever you like! I don't think any framework (or set of frameworks) will automatically scale in all directions without the developer having some knowledge and putting in some tuning effort - whether it's on the application server, database, caches, client, or otherwise ;) cheers, Justin On Feb 20, 3:52 pm, christophe albrech christophe.albr...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, but as a rule of thumb (in most cases) I don't like having my clustered index on something else than the pk. That's most likely what you'll use to get to your data, which means that if you do put CIX on another column, you open the door to a world of pain in terms of bookmark look-ups. Just theoritical talk, though. I've never used farcry, thus have no idea how fast it is, or how well it scales. Tof On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Justin Carter justin.w.car...@gmail.comwrote: On Feb 20, 10:11 am, christophe albrech christophe.albr...@gmail.com wrote: But it can have performance implications at the DB level. - If not sequential, Index fragmentation ensues. Page splits, too. - As the UUID is probably the clustering key, it gets added to all NCIs, which in turn become larger and slower. - Database gets bigger. That means less stuff in proc and data cache, more io, longer backups and disaster recovery procedure. That said, they are, indeed pretty useful to move stuff around. And using sequential UUID does a good job of limiting the damage. No idea what far cry does under the hood though, so I'll stop bitching. Tof FarCry doesn't lock you into anything in this regard, you can avoid fragmentation and page splits by making objectid a non-clustered index and setting your clustered index to something more suitable, as you would do in any database that you needed to tune for performance. For those content types with millions of rows you'd also set bRefObjects to false in your component to avoid writing to FarCry's master table of objects and specify the content type name in any ORM related functions, instead of letting FarCry look it up automatically. cheers, Justin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
[cfaussie] Re: Recommendations for a CF Framework.
Way to fly the flag there Dennis... 0_o I think Scott knows that FarCry is totally awesome anyway, or at least he should :) cheers, Justin On Feb 17, 2:15 pm, Dennis Clark boomf...@gmail.com wrote: As others have said there are plenty of CF frameworks to choose from. One that hasn't been mentioned yet is FarCry. As a CMS it works well, but one non-scientific study found a strong correlation between prolonged exposure to FarCry and excessive use of expletives such as f**k, c**k, and dogr***er. The study was unable to prove or disprove causation, but recommends developers exposed to FarCry exercise caution and be on the lookout for these known symptoms. Hope that helps, -- Dennis On Feb 17, 2012 12:36 PM, MossyBlog scott.bar...@gmail.com wrote: Firstly, kudos for sticking it out with CF all these years! :) Secondly, I'm keen to brush the dust off my old CF skills and try it out again feeling more armed in the plethora of languages I've acquired over the years. That being said, I'm also keen to see what all the cool kids are using with regards to CF after market addons. Mach-II? or did i just show my age. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: Recommendations for a CF Framework.
Dale my view is this, if its a framework that is nice and complete it should remain quite future proof for the life of the app etc, also most developers should be able to pick up a framework quite fast if working on a preexisting app along side developers who can help them along for a week. This is how we currently do it with coldbox, in the last 9 months our team has grown from 4 to 30 and all new devs seem quite proficient within a week, however we have a policy of minimum 50% pair programming so this helps a lot. Scott, if you're only after a quick simple app that may grow a little I'd go with FW-1 if you're building something more full on I'd go with Coldbox, it has a great plugin architecture and a lot of plugins provided by the author, things like mockbox, wirebox (dependency injection) etc are really handy, also writing plugins for it is a breeze. It also has a lot of documentation which comes in more handy once you know the framework, I always prefer to learn the basics from pre-existing apps etc Welcome back to CF ;) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
[cfaussie] Re: Recommendations for a CF Framework.
@Dennis. I don't understand the FarCry hate. What version are you talking about? We have been running FarCry from when it was just a CMS but have recently made the jump to 6.1.3. I do get that it can be confusing to someone who is new to it. Even though the documentation still needs some more love, it has gotten a lot better. I recently went through the Developer Jump Start course (available from the FarCry wiki) and was blown away yet again at how powerful FarCry is when you start to dig into it. To someone learning to use FarCry (6+), make sure you have a good look at application.fapi. Especially application.fapi.getContentObjects(). @Zac. Depends if your using Friendly URL's. Also depends if you use aliases (which is way easier to work with). Cheers Mark On Feb 17, 2:15 pm, Dennis Clark boomf...@gmail.com wrote: As others have said there are plenty of CF frameworks to choose from. One that hasn't been mentioned yet is FarCry. As a CMS it works well, but one non-scientific study found a strong correlation between prolonged exposure to FarCry and excessive use of expletives such as f**k, c**k, and dogr***er. The study was unable to prove or disprove causation, but recommends developers exposed to FarCry exercise caution and be on the lookout for these known symptoms. Hope that helps, -- Dennis On Feb 17, 2012 12:36 PM, MossyBlog scott.bar...@gmail.com wrote: Firstly, kudos for sticking it out with CF all these years! :) Secondly, I'm keen to brush the dust off my old CF skills and try it out again feeling more armed in the plethora of languages I've acquired over the years. That being said, I'm also keen to see what all the cool kids are using with regards to CF after market addons. Mach-II? or did i just show my age. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
[cfaussie] Re: Recommendations for a CF Framework.
Well, I'm only 1/2 serious however. Find a framework that has more than 5 developers (so that you know it will be supported and maintained) Find one that has been around and used for 5 years (so that you know it has longevity) Find one that at least (25% of ColdFusion developers will already know) And when you find it let me know, because I'm still looking. Or pick a popular one that everyone is using today that's been written by one person and not many people understand Then train your staff to use it and be prepared to rewrite your application in 2 years. Friday rant over (Sorry Peter Tilbrook I stole your job) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
