RE: [Chevelle-list] A/C for your 72 Chevelle
The best way to transfer freon is with a reclaimer pump. Put the tank that you'll be putting all the freon in ice. It will take the freon faster than trying to pump against higher pressures. A freon recycling,recovery machine is needed. Len
Re: [Chevelle-list] A/C for your 72 Chevelle
At 04:35 PM 1/6/2004, you wrote I need to ask you a question, I just almost emptied my 30 lb F12 drum (the real stuff). I have two full 50 lb drums (bought yrs ago for $2.00 a LB). I would like to transfer some from the 50 lb to the 30 lb, what is the best way to do that? The 30 is not completely empty . Federation Refrigeration E.47th terrace Kansas city, MO 64129 (816)921-69
RE: [Chevelle-list] A/C for your 72 Chevelle
At 12:24 PM 1/8/2004, you wrote: Clint; That doesn't make any sense. All freons are separate and can be handled as such. I do this for a living. R-134A is the stuff the EPA insists you don't mix with other freons insofar as to make a law requiring us to use separate gauges for 134A. R-12, FR-12, R-22, R-502, all can be handled with the same equipment. Somebody's not giving you the facts Clint. And most probably its because they don't normally order that freon. And like I said before, its referred to with only two names. FR-12, and FRGC 12, Its not called Freeze-12. Hey let me go out to the van and get you some information...IGC InterCool Energy Corp.1-800-555-1442, very nice people in Latham NY. give them a call, they make the FR-12, and they may even remember me because I've called and told them what a great product it is. check it out for yourself. They may even have a number of a technician in your area to convert you, although they too were happy to hear it worked in cars. they made it for stationary refrigeration equipment. I can only speak from my experience. Its worked in cars for me with no oil or gasket change since the summer of 1997. just pull a vacuum in an r-12 system and recharge to 80 percent of the factory charge. I find an ounce or two more usually does it. I bet I alone have converted a hundred cars and trucks. Let me know what you find out. Len I don't want to p-ss anyone off, but this is my take on the alternative refrigerants from a professional auto technician and shop owner's point of view. The ONLY refrigerants approved by the auto manufacturers are R-12 and R-134. There is a lot of other stuff on the market, but it is not factory approved. There is no law that says what a layman can or cannot do to his car, but professional auto techs & shops are bound by the EPA executive orders and the warranty requirements of our suppliers. One part of this relates to freon recovery--the EPA says that you should have a separate recovery system for all of the different types of refrigerant that you recover. I.E., you may NOT legally mix R-12, R-134,FR-12 or any other refrigerants in you recovery system. Since most shops now use a machine that recovers, recycles, and recharges from a single tank that holds only one type of refrigerant (I.E. separate machines for R-12 & R-134), they must identify and know what it is they are taking out of a system so that it doesn't contaminate what's already in the tank . So, if you have charged your system with an alternative refrigerant, there are very few shops that will work on your A/C system if you have a problem. That's not to say that you personally can't open the valves and vent all of the stuff out, remove the fittings (if they were changed in the first place) and then take the car into a shop with an empty system to be repaired. It's not really ethical, it's possibly illegal, but it happens. In my shop, if you have a small leak and just need a recharge on a R-12 system, that's what I put in it. If the car requires a major repair (compressor replacement, blown hose, etc.) then I give the customer the option of going back with R-12 or doing a R-134 retrofit. The retrofit requires replacement of the oil, the drier, and the expansion valve, plus repairing whatever else was wrong in the first place. No offense Len, but you don't have to warranty the work that you do in your backyard. If your customers have a problem it doesn't reflect on your personal reputation or that of your shop. You probably don't have to worry about EPA agents trying to catch you doing things illegally either. There's a bit of difference between commercial, stationary A/C regulations and mobile A/C rules. I'm not saying that the alternative refrigerants won't work, I'm just not going to put it my own or my customer's cars. Sorry about the length of the post, but I hope that it will clear up some of the misunderstanding. BL
Re: [Chevelle-list] A/C for your 72 Chevelle
Supposedly,the stuff I'm referring to has propane or a similiar compund as one of its ingredients. Clint HooperH&H Custom,ownerLT5 Registry Directorhttp://www.LT5Registry.net/ACES #1650http://dalesplace.com/misc/friends/clint_hooper.htm - Original Message - From: Diane Peppin Clint; That doesn't make any sense. All freons are separate and can be handled as such. I do this for a living. R-134A is the stuff the EPA insists you don't mix with other freons insofar as to make a law requiring us to use separate gauges for 134A. R-12, FR-12, R-22, R-502, all can be handled with the same equipment. Somebody's not giving you the facts Clint. And most probably its because they don't normally order that freon. And like I said before, its referred to with only two names. FR-12, and FRGC 12, Its not called Freeze-12. Hey let me go out to the van and get you some information...IGC InterCool Energy Corp.1-800-555-1442, very nice people in Latham NY. give them a call, they make the FR-12, and they may even remember me because I've called and told them what a great product it is. check it out for yourself. They may even have a number of a technician in your area to convert you, although they too were happy to hear it worked in cars. they made it for stationary refrigeration equipment. I can only speak from my experience. Its worked in cars for me with no oil or gasket change since the summer of 1997. just pull a vacuum in an r-12 system and recharge to 80 percent of the factory charge. I find an ounce or two more usually does it. I bet I alone have converted a hundred cars and trucks. Let me know what you find out. Len
RE: [Chevelle-list] A/C for your 72 Chevelle
Clint; That doesn't make any sense. All freons are separate and can be handled as such. I do this for a living. R-134A is the stuff the EPA insists you don't mix with other freons insofar as to make a law requiring us to use separate gauges for 134A. R-12, FR-12, R-22, R-502, all can be handled with the same equipment. Somebody's not giving you the facts Clint. And most probably its because they don't normally order that freon. And like I said before, its referred to with only two names. FR-12, and FRGC 12, Its not called Freeze-12. Hey let me go out to the van and get you some information...IGC InterCool Energy Corp.1-800-555-1442, very nice people in Latham NY. give them a call, they make the FR-12, and they may even remember me because I've called and told them what a great product it is. check it out for yourself. They may even have a number of a technician in your area to convert you, although they too were happy to hear it worked in cars. they made it for stationary refrigeration equipment. I can only speak from my experience. Its worked in cars for me with no oil or gasket change since the summer of 1997. just pull a vacuum in an r-12 system and recharge to 80 percent of the factory charge. I find an ounce or two more usually does it. I bet I alone have converted a hundred cars and trucks. Let me know what you find out. Len
Re: [Chevelle-list] A/C for your 72 Chevelle
Regarding Freeze-12,around here shops will not touch a vehicle with the stuff because it will contaminate their clean supply of R-12. Clint HooperH&H Custom,ownerLT5 Registry Directorhttp://www.LT5Registry.net/ACES #1650http://dalesplace.com/misc/friends/clint_hooper.htm - Original Message - From: Diane Peppin Clint; actually it is also called Frigic 12. great stuff. got 20 lbs on the truck now.
RE: [Chevelle-list] A/C for your 72 Chevelle
Clint; actually it is also called Frigic 12. great stuff. got 20 lbs on the truck now.
Re: [Chevelle-list] A/C for your 72 Chevelle
Is this FR-12 you're referring to more commonly known as Freeze 12? Clint HooperH&H Custom,ownerLT5 Registry Directorhttp://www.LT5Registry.net/ACES #1650http://dalesplace.com/misc/friends/clint_hooper.htm - Original Message - From: Diane Peppin Stanley; and others on the list; I'm a refrigeration specialist. Since 1997 I have been using FR-12 to replace R-12 in the old cars. No oil change, no gasket change, "NO OIL" change. big difference to having some place chop out all your old components telling you they have to to change the oil. R-134A uses a "polyoester" oil. R-12 (and FR-12) use mineral oil. Most freons use mineral oil. I can assure you all that R-134A is junk in retrofitting your old R-12 systems. Why go through the hassle? I pull a deep vacuum and charge the system with the recommended 80 percent of the original R-12 charge. Yeah, I know no one carries FR-12 (the stores) actually you can find it if you look. Check with a refrigeration company, not a heating and cooling company. Its also cheaper than the other freons. If your in the Kansas city area bring your Chevelle by the house. I can convert you to FR-12 in 30 minutes while you watch and learn. Usual charge? $60. I use it in my service van too. This works on all Chevelles pre 90. Ever see what happens to a 134-A system that gets moisture in it? turns everything inside it to a white peanut butter substance that can't be cleaned. Gotta condemn it. (something I see allot with small commercial units that run the liquid line through the water pan to evaporate water from the evaporator). I suppose the new cars already with R-134A are okay because they were built that way. Don't forget to wash your radiator and the condenser in front of it every 6 months. a dirty condenser raises the pressure of the freon, and on a hot day it will raise quite high(250-350 lbs per square inch), thereby finding or making a leak. This little tidbit brought to you by Len Snow. Federation Refrigeration E.47th terrace Kansas city, MO 64129 (816)921-6984
Re: [Chevelle-list] A/C for your 72 Chevelle
Len, Very good info to know. thanks, Ken
