Re: [Chicken-users] My language trajectory
Hm... let's try to remember... BASIC (Ti Basic, TI Extended Basic) PASCAL (in School) more BASIC 6502 machine code (decimal, later assembler) C (long and intensively, but without real success) Learned about Lisp (1.5 dialect, really) Forth (a bit) Smalltalk (temporarily) Lisp Common Lisp Scheme C++ (have to) Lua Still try to use Smalltalk occasionally, but there aren't any really useful implementations. But to get any work done, Scheme of course. I am in the fortunate situation that I can use a lof of Lua at work, even if it starts to show its warts, the longer one uses it. Still, everything is so much easier in Scheme... cheers, felix ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] My language trajectory
Interesting thread. I keep doing loops that take me away from scheme and eventually I come back. Now, in part thanks to Chicken, I'm back to stay. Basic, Fortran Lisp (Autocad) HP Basic, Pascal (IC test stuff) Scheme (College, scoops and PC Scheme) Pascal, C, Assembly (College) Scheme (STk) Awk/Sed/Sh and finally Perl, lots and lots of Perl Scheme Python (learned but did not use) Ruby C (Microcontrollers) Scheme I think this posting says it quite well but things are a bit better in the scheme world than when it was written IMHO. http://www.sarg.ryerson.ca/~dmason/common/scheme-paean.html For us learners the best thing the gurus can do in my opinion is to put a hierarchy of snippets doing lots of things from simple (even obvious) to complex on the Wiki. I suggest breaking the snippets into four sections: beginner intermediate advance refugees [ section has idioms from other languages and an equivalent in scheme ] I'll happily contribute to the beginner and maybe intermediate sections. BTW, I'd love it if an expert couple put a handful of examples that illustrate what cut and cute do. I still don't get it and the frustrating part is I suspect it will be obvious when I do :) Matt -- On Monday 18 February 2008 07:21:34 pm Graham Fawcett wrote: > On Feb 16, 2008 9:05 PM, Kon Lovett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > @ University: > > (Algol W & Snobol 4 & 360 BAL & Fortran 4 - course work, not too > > serious) > > > > [snip] > > > > No Work: > > Python (minor, just to learn) > > Io (minor, just to learn) > > Chicken Scheme & C > > > > Strange road it has been, > > Kon > > Impressive trajectory! From Algol to Chicken in a few short hops... > > Thanks for sharing this. > Graham > > > ___ > Chicken-users mailing list > Chicken-users@nongnu.org > http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users -- http://www.kiatoa.com, fight for a better world. ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
[Chicken-users] ANN: new egg, Stacktor
Hi all, I'm happy to announce my first egg: Stacktor. Stacktor is a DSL for programming in a stack based style, like languages such as Forth or Factor. The idea came from a talk at my local Ruby user's group by Slava Pestov on Factor. While I know Slava likes Lisp/Scheme, he made an offhand joke about Lisp, and I felt obligated to show that the Lisp/Scheme world can do stack based programming too. Here's a real quick example. Let's say we want to find all the squares of a list that are larger than a given value. In a functional style, we'd either have to write it "backwards" or use a lot of intermediate bindings. We can skip both with in stack programming: (begin-stack 9 '(1 2 3 4 5) (push (lambda (x) (* x x))) map stk-swap (lambda (x) (lambda (y) (> y x))) ;; returns a function that will be pushed on the stack filter ) => (stack 16 25) I won't bore you with a lot details. Feel free to hit me up if you have more questions. Cheers, -Mark ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] egg documentation
I'll also update eggdoc-svnwiki with the new syntax (or whatever final form it takes) once that gets put in the wiki. And in that vein: The four types of definitions in eggdoc are "procedure", "macro", "record" and "parameter", with an extra "signature" type which is used when you want to name a new (uncommon) definition type. In creating texinfo output, it became necessary to introduce a "read-syntax" tag as well, to avoid confusing the Scheme expression parser (read) -- the contents of this are used verbatim rather than running (read) to pick it apart. (Although it's in eggdoc-texinfo, apparently 'read-syntax' was never added to eggdoc. Oops.) The parser also checks anything using a "signature" type for a name beginning with "read" -- e.g. read-syntax, read syntax, reader macro -- and avoids calling (read) on that too. This allows backwards compatibility with old eggdocs and allows the author a little naming flexibility. So ultimately, I think something like the following tags would be useful: (string-set! a b) (args:make-option (OPTION-NAME ...) ARG-DATA [BODY]) hostinfo eggdoc:doctype @[object message: value ...] doctype:xhtml-1.0-strict Names subject to change. Thoughts? On 2/18/08, Ivan Raikov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Oh, okay, this looks pretty good. Not as pretty as the original > eggdoc, but it will do. I will try converting some of my docs with > eggdoc-svnwiki this weekend, thanks. ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] My language trajectory
On Feb 16, 2008 9:05 PM, Kon Lovett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > @ University: > (Algol W & Snobol 4 & 360 BAL & Fortran 4 - course work, not too > serious) > > [snip] > > No Work: > Python (minor, just to learn) > Io (minor, just to learn) > Chicken Scheme & C > > Strange road it has been, > Kon Impressive trajectory! From Algol to Chicken in a few short hops... Thanks for sharing this. Graham ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] Re: YADT: yet another documentation thread
On Feb 18, 2008 1:45 PM, Peter Bex <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 05:03:47PM -0500, Graham Fawcett wrote: > > The CL community has a "My Road to Lisp" meme, where CL users write up a > > quick story on how they "arrived". I'd *love* to hear people's My Road > to > > Chicken stories. > > A little painful to admit, but I started out with BASIC on the C64, There's nothing embarrassing about that! Unless you mean that it's a sign of your advanced age! ;-) I started with BASIC on a Commodore PET when I was about 14. The first computer I owned was a Commodore 64 -- I detasseled corn for a summer to earn the cash. It was a *wonderful* machine, and I learned a lot of languages on it: BASIC, COMAL, Forth, Logo and 6502 assembler. Forth and Logo were revelations. Whatever strange things they did to my brain have never really been undone. I remembered the 'head' and 'tail' concepts from my adolescent Logo experiences; when I saw them much later in Lisp and Scheme, I had a very strange feeling of deja vu. The 6502 was the only CPU I ever really programmed assembly for. I had read about cellular automata (probably Conway's Game of Life, and probably in a Martin Gardner book) and managed to get a CA engine written in assembly that was fast enough to run a game at a decent speed. It even had an opcode system for describing the rules of the CA games. Not bad for a naive, pre-Internet teenager! I wish I still had that code, but the audio-cassette tape it was stored on has long since vanished. Thanks for the trip down memory lane, Peter. ;-) Graham ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] egg documentation
Oh, okay, this looks pretty good. Not as pretty as the original eggdoc, but it will do. I will try converting some of my docs with eggdoc-svnwiki this weekend, thanks. -Ivan "Jim Ursetto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Ivan, > > The symbol-table is essentially a nod to aesthetics--it just alters the > appearance of the table (mainly, the 'symbol' column is monospaced). > > The eggdoc-svnwiki egg translates symbol-table elements to > Although svnwiki currently > ignores class elements, it might not in the future. In the meantime, > you just get a proportional font in the left column. > > You can see the result by checking any wiki document that was translated > with eggdoc->svnwiki, e.g. http://chicken.wiki.br/objc . ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] Re: YADT: yet another documentation thread
Mark Fredrickson scripsit: > Rexx (I never discovered if this was a real language or just a > teaching tool at my school. Very real. At one time it was the only scripting-style language supported on OS/2, and it still exists in several forms, one of which (NetRexx) runs on the Java VM. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REXX . -- John Cowan[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://ccil.org/~cowan Nobody expects the RESTifarian Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise ... surprise and tedium ... tedium and surprise Our two weapons are tedium and surprise ... and ruthless disregard for unpleasant facts Our three weapons are tedium, surprise, and ruthless disregard ... and an almost fanatical devotion to Roy Fielding ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] Debian packages for some eggs now available
Well, my experience with RPM is also a bit dated, and it was limited to translating custom Debian kernel packages to RedHat and Mandrake RPMs. In my case, it worked well because all three distributions used the same script to update the kernel image installation, and of course the kernel has no library dependencies, other than modutils, so the generated RPMs seemed to install and work fine. I did this also in part because the RPM distros did not have an equivalent of Debian kernel-package scripts, which allow you to add your own patches to the Debian kernel and create kernel packages out of that. Chicken also has no dependencies other than libc, so I am guessing such a conversion would be relatively uncomplicated. I agree that the proper way to do this would be to write an RPM .spec file, but I don't use RPM distros, so I have little motivation. If somebody writes the .spec file, I will be happy to install RedHat in a virtual image and test the RPMs, though. -Ivan "Harri Haataja" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > It's been a while since I was last involved with rpm, but even then it > was certainly worth it making different spec files (and/or taking care > you don't use the wrong ones). It's not just the dependencies and > paths (which obviously matter) but there's also different sets of spec > macros and other things. They aren't really hard to write, though. ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] Re: YADT: yet another documentation thread
On Feb 18, 2008, at 12:45 PM, Peter Bex wrote: On Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 05:03:47PM -0500, Graham Fawcett wrote: The CL community has a "My Road to Lisp" meme, where CL users write up a quick story on how they "arrived". I'd *love* to hear people's My Road to Chicken stories. Pre-university: BASIC. Pascal. C. C++. University: Rexx (I never discovered if this was a real language or just a teaching tool at my school. It's very similar to...) SML. Java. More C/ C++. More SML. Perl. Post-university: PHP. Ruby. JavaScript. Scheme (finally!) I've been looking for my "go to" language for a long time. Ruby was a strong candidate, but Scheme takes what I like about Ruby and gives me more options. I looked at CL but found it weird and inconsistent. The little things matter. Now, I plan to plant myself firmly in Scheme and see where it takes me. (BTW, if nobody else is interested I'd be happy to try my hand at a Ruby->Chicken tutorial). I too would be happy to help. I recently volunteered to give a Scheme introduction my local Ruby group. -Mark ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] new domains.
if you cant fix it on webserver end, we have some potential fixes on this end but it would be a lot more work for the Very Nice Person who has been handling dns issues since the computer fire. -elf On Mon, 18 Feb 2008, Peter Bex wrote: On Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 11:49:15AM -0800, Elf wrote: www.. are all now cnames for www.call-with-current-continuation.org ... which isnt working too hot. advice please? Looks like call-cc's vhosting isn't set up to dispatch those domains. Felix: Can you fix this on the webserver end? Cheers, Peter ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] new domains.
On Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 11:49:15AM -0800, Elf wrote: > > www.. are all now cnames for > www.call-with-current-continuation.org ... which isnt working too hot. > > advice please? Looks like call-cc's vhosting isn't set up to dispatch those domains. Felix: Can you fix this on the webserver end? Cheers, Peter -- http://sjamaan.ath.cx -- "The process of preparing programs for a digital computer is especially attractive, not only because it can be economically and scientifically rewarding, but also because it can be an aesthetic experience much like composing poetry or music." -- Donald Knuth pgpSND6SAKWBu.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
[Chicken-users] new domains.
www.. are all now cnames for www.call-with-current-continuation.org ... which isnt working too hot. advice please? -elf ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] new domains!
On Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 03:03:22PM -0800, Elf wrote: > > chickenscheme.org > chickenscheme.net > chicken-scheme.com > chicken-scheme.org > chicken-scheme.net > > (someone has already parked on chickenscheme.com, unfortunately. this should > prevent people from doing anything nasty to the namespace.) Thanks a lot! > where should i point these at? Just wherever call-with-current-continuation.org points to, to prevent confusion, I think. Cheers, Peter -- http://sjamaan.ath.cx -- "The process of preparing programs for a digital computer is especially attractive, not only because it can be economically and scientifically rewarding, but also because it can be an aesthetic experience much like composing poetry or music." -- Donald Knuth pgpOj8boVxAHI.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] Re: YADT: yet another documentation thread
On Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 05:03:47PM -0500, Graham Fawcett wrote: > The CL community has a "My Road to Lisp" meme, where CL users write up a > quick story on how they "arrived". I'd *love* to hear people's My Road to > Chicken stories. A little painful to admit, but I started out with BASIC on the C64, then got a PC with QBASIC/QuickBASIC, then my first "real" language: C. I stuck with C for a long long time until I learned Scheme at university. That was love at first sight and I've been using it ever since :) PLT first, then a little bit of s48 and then Chicken. At work I do a bit of Javascript programming (which is very Schemey), but mostly in Ruby which I absolutely hate, as the #chicken crowd knows all too well from my many rants about it :) (BTW, if nobody else is interested I'd be happy to try my hand at a Ruby->Chicken tutorial). Because of the many problems with Ruby, we're going to switch back to PHP... Of course my secret plan is to sneak in Chicken as soon as I find an opportunity to do so! Cheers, Peter -- http://sjamaan.ath.cx -- "The process of preparing programs for a digital computer is especially attractive, not only because it can be economically and scientifically rewarding, but also because it can be an aesthetic experience much like composing poetry or music." -- Donald Knuth pgpOU7xqJyPEW.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] passing on of chicken maintainership
I just want to say Thank You, Felix, for all the great work you've put in making Chicken. It is my favorite programming implementation/environment and has definitely made much life much easier. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Alejo. http://azul.freaks-unidos.net/ ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] egg documentation
> By the way, on the subject of wiki markup, I'd like to put in a plug > for marking index entries. Hmm, what do you mean? Alejo, a bit slow today. http://azul.freaks-unidos.net/ ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] Debian packages for some eggs now available
On 18/02/2008, Harri Haataja <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It's been a while since I was last involved with rpm, but even then it > was certainly worth it making different spec files (and/or taking care > you don't use the wrong ones). It's not just the dependencies and > paths (which obviously matter) but there's also different sets of spec > macros and other things. They aren't really hard to write, though. *nod... in that sense at least, packaging for gentoo is easier. At least here, all our installation directories and prefix paths and all that jazz are env_var based, meaning once I've got this up and running all gentoo-based distros can use the exact same egg ebuilds, regardless of their filesystem structure, and we'll be able to generate new ebuilds with a very simple script - much simpler than the debian-generator: it'll only need to extract the egg's description and dependencies, and write these to a text file with a little sh wrapping. Of course, we also have to deal with trying to support compilation on a mind-boggling variety of toolchain configurations; luckily we can make the assumption that if chicken compiled, the problem is either upstream or on the users machine. Libraries that aren't compiled via something like chicken-setup do not award us this luxury. Thankfully, I'm standing on the shoulders of giants here :) Cheers, Leo ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] sqlite3 wtf
Upgrading to sqlite 3.5.6 on the linux box seems to have fixed it. Ozzi wrote: The sqlite3 egg seems to have issues on Dreamhost (Linux). Works fine on OS X here. ;; Works fine... (sqlite3:prepare (sqlite3:open "db.sqlite3") "select * from foo") ;; but do the same thing again... (sqlite3:prepare (sqlite3:open "db.sqlite3") "select * from foo") ;; and get a weird error! Error: (sqlite3:prepare) unrecognized token: "@" # "select * from foo" Call history: (sqlite3:prepare (sqlite3:open "db.sqlite3") "select * from foo") (sqlite3:open "db.sqlite3") (sqlite3:prepare (sqlite3:open "db.sqlite3") "select * from foo") (sqlite3:open "db.sqlite3") <-- Anybody have an idea where to start on this one? Chicken 2.740 on both machines. Reinstalled all the eggs on Dreamhost, no change. Ozzi ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] Debian packages for some eggs now available
On 13/02/2008, Ivan Raikov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Well, the Debian egg packages can be easily converted to RPM by the > alien program, but there might be slight differences in how each RPM > distribution does its library version numbering. E.g. the estraier egg > depends on libestraier8 package in Debian, but that could be named > something completely different in RedHat, Suse and so on. The main > Chicken packages and the eggs that do not have dependencies external > to Chicken can be easily converted to and installed as RPMs, though. It's been a while since I was last involved with rpm, but even then it was certainly worth it making different spec files (and/or taking care you don't use the wrong ones). It's not just the dependencies and paths (which obviously matter) but there's also different sets of spec macros and other things. They aren't really hard to write, though. -- I appear to be temporarily using gmail's horrible interface. I apologise for any failure in my part in trying to make it do the right thing with post formatting. ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] new egg etiquette
On Feb 17, 2008 9:01 PM, Jim Ursetto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yes. The toplevel directory is for release 2 only, and will > probably be renamed later to release/2, but has not yet > been to retain backwards compatibility. > Moving all the stuff into a "release/2" directory should probably work (it needs to modifications to the hairy "egg-post-commit"). The backwards-compatible part is the directory on the call/cc.org server, which has to be the same. I will move the toplevel eggs into a release/2 dir, but I have to fix/test/pray-that-it-works e-p-c first. Soon. cheers, felix ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] documentation issues...
On Feb 17, 2008 12:52 PM, Alejandro Forero Cuervo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > what remains relevant is that its bloody hard to document anything > > even slightly nontrivial in it. > > While this is not my perception, I've heard this claim in the past. I > would like to see if Svnwiki can be improved in this area to make it > easier for you and others like you to use it. Care to give me a few > examples of concrete syntax forms that you think we should support and > what they should parse to? > > Thanks and happy editing! :-) > I'd like to add here that I think svnwiki does a pretty good job and has served us well. Thanks for making it available, Alejandro. And thanks for being there to fix and extend things when we need them (this and the fact that it is writen with chicken is reason enough to keep it). cheers, felix ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
