Re: [ChurchillChat] Re: Another new book of "debunking"
Gosh, and I thought that Churchill knew all about it and didn't tell FDR. I've got to get my non-facts straight! Evan -Original Message- From: Dave Turrell To: churchillchat Sent: Tue, Dec 2, 2014 3:16 pm Subject: RE: [ChurchillChat] Re: Another new book of "debunking" Looks like he's got prior form, as the Sweeney might say. Was it just me who missed the recent information that FDR instigated the attack on Pearl Harbour? Dave Sacrifice of Singapore: Churchill's Biggest Blunder by Michael Arnold The fate of Singapore was sealed long before the Japanese attack in December 1941. The blame lay with British Prime Minister Winston Churchill who refused to listen to warnings from military advisors to reinforce defences in Singapore/Malaya, convinced the Japanese would never dare to attack a ‘white power’. Obsessed with beating German General Erwin Rommel, he poured into The fate of Singapore was sealed long before the Japanese attack in December 1941. The blame lay with British Prime Minister Winston Churchill who refused to listen to warnings from military advisors to reinforce defences in Singapore/Malaya, convinced the Japanese would never dare to attack a ‘white power’. Obsessed with beating German General Erwin Rommel, he poured into the Middle East massive resources that should have gone to the Far East. However when, inevitably, Singapore fell to the Japanese in February 1942, Churchill attempted to deflect criticism by accusing the defenders there of spineless capitulation. Recently released information from the Office of Naval Intelligence in Washington reveals that United States President Franklin Roosevelt not only knew of the impending attack on Pearl Harbour but actually instigated it. Although Roosevelt promised a shield of B-17 aircraft for Singapore from Manila, General Douglas MacArthur in the Philippines had been told to do nothing until after the Japanese attacks there and at Pearl Harbour so that the United States could claim an unprovoked assault that would allow them to declare war on Japan. This book provides an account of events during World War II as they unfolded in Malaya, Singapore and elsewhere in the world prior to the Japanese attack, as well as a detailed study of the troops on the ground attacking and defending Singapore. From: churchillchat@googlegroups.com [mailto:churchillchat@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of PatFinn1940 Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2014 3:39 PM To: churchillchat@googlegroups.com Subject: [ChurchillChat] Re: Another new book of "debunking" 'Truths'--what 'truths'? The author's?? I'd like to see what sources he used for this. Are they 'original' sources, or ones that fit the author's presuppositions and agendas? How ridiculous. (Ms.) Patricia Finnegan pfinn2...@gmail.com On Monday, December 1, 2014 1:15:00 PM UTC-5, Antoine Capet wrote: Another new book of "debunking" : Arnold, Michael. Hollow Heroes: An Unvarnished Look at the Wartime Careers of Churchill, Montgomery and Mountbatten. Casemate, 2014. The book reveals the truths behind the conventional images of three of Great Britain's primary military leaders during and immediately after the Second World War. In each case there was a totally different side to each man, which demonstrates that a great deal of their reputation was built on contrived results, deception and dishonesty. It examines the influence and impediment of "class" on the performance of the British Army in World War II, and quotes the views of the Americans that far too often there was an unwillingness among the British to base officer promotion on effectiveness rather than on social background; conforming was more important than performing, as anyone who has served in the British Army's ranks would agree. At the same time, Montgomery feared and was jealous of Patton, whose rate of advance was nearly always twice that of Monty's. The services of Field Marshals Wavell and Auchinleck, two of Britain's finest commanders of the war, were largely lost to Britain because of Churchill's consistent interfering in field matters and his need to contrive almost anything to remain in power after he had been responsible for the fall of Singapore. This book includes the bizarre case of Major-General Dorman-Smith, one of Britain's most brilliant original thinkers, who without reason was sacked by Churchill. Dorman-Smith was the tactician who had produced Britain's victory over Rommel at the first battle of Alamein, but his crime seems have been overachievement; an unforgivable sin in some eyes. Mountbatten's fumbling in India is also realistically portrayed in these pages, putting paid to the "man for the century"'s overly embellished reputation. Antoine CAPET, FRHistS Professor emeritus of British Studies University of Rouen 76821 M
RE: [ChurchillChat] Re: Another new book of "debunking"
Comment on WSC as said sarcastically. The information contained in this communication is confidential and intended solely for the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying or unauthorized use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error please notify the sender immediately and return the communication to sender. From: churchillchat@googlegroups.com [mailto:churchillchat@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Johan Arve Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2014 3:57 PM To: churchillchat@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [ChurchillChat] Re: Another new book of "debunking" The only reason Singapore fell was that the commander failed to take measures to defend it. On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 10:29 PM, Quinn Bastian mailto:qc...@msn.com> > wrote: As I recall, the Japanese army attacked Singapore from the rear (jungle side) while the majority of the British defenses were set up looking for an invasion from the sea. Yup, we can blame WSC for that one!! As for FDR's prior knowledge and instigation of the Pearl Harbor attack, if the documents proving his involvement are real, they have yet to be made public as this nonsense has been going around for years! Quinn The information contained in this communication is confidential and intended solely for the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying or unauthorized use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error please notify the sender immediately and return the communication to sender. -Original Message- From: churchillchat@googlegroups.com <mailto:churchillchat@googlegroups.com> [mailto:churchillchat@googlegroups.com <mailto:churchillchat@googlegroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dave Turrell Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2014 2:16 PM To: churchillchat@googlegroups.com <mailto:churchillchat@googlegroups.com> Subject: RE: [ChurchillChat] Re: Another new book of "debunking" Looks like he's got prior form, as the Sweeney might say. Was it just me who missed the recent information that FDR instigated the attack on Pearl Harbour? Dave Sacrifice of Singapore: Churchill's Biggest Blunder by Michael Arnold The fate of Singapore was sealed long before the Japanese attack in December 1941. The blame lay with British Prime Minister Winston Churchill who refused to listen to warnings from military advisors to reinforce defences in Singapore/Malaya, convinced the Japanese would never dare to attack a ‘white power’. Obsessed with beating German General Erwin Rommel, he poured into The fate of Singapore was sealed long before the Japanese attack in December 1941. The blame lay with British Prime Minister Winston Churchill who refused to listen to warnings from military advisors to reinforce defences in Singapore/Malaya, convinced the Japanese would never dare to attack a ‘white power’. Obsessed with beating German General Erwin Rommel, he poured into the Middle East massive resources that should have gone to the Far East. However when, inevitably, Singapore fell to the Japanese in February 1942, Churchill attempted to deflect criticism by accusing the defenders there of spineless capitulation. Recently released information from the Office of Naval Intelligence in Washington reveals that United States President Franklin Roosevelt not only knew of the impending attack on Pearl Harbour but actually instigated it. Although Roosevelt promised a shield of B-17 aircraft for Singapore from Manila, General Douglas MacArthur in the Philippines had been told to do nothing until after the Japanese attacks there and at Pearl Harbour so that the United States could claim an unprovoked assault that would allow them to declare war on Japan. This book provides an account of events during World War II as they unfolded in Malaya, Singapore and elsewhere in the world prior to the Japanese attack, as well as a detailed study of the troops on the ground attacking and defending Singapore. From: churchillchat@googlegroups.com <mailto:churchillchat@googlegroups.com> [mailto:churchillchat@googlegroups.com <mailto:churchillchat@googlegroups.com> ] On Behalf Of PatFinn1940 Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2014 3:39 PM To: churchillchat@googlegroups.com <mailto:churchillchat@googlegroups.com> Subject: [ChurchillChat] Re: Another new book of "debunking" 'Truths'--what 'truths'? The author's?? I'd like to see what sources he used for this. Are they
Re: [ChurchillChat] Re: Another new book of "debunking"
The only reason Singapore fell was that the commander failed to take measures to defend it. On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 10:29 PM, Quinn Bastian wrote: > As I recall, the Japanese army attacked Singapore from the rear (jungle > side) while the majority of the British defenses were set up looking for an > invasion from the sea. Yup, we can blame WSC for that one!! > > As for FDR's prior knowledge and instigation of the Pearl Harbor attack, > if the documents proving his involvement are real, they have yet to be made > public as this nonsense has been going around for years! > > Quinn > > > > The information contained in this communication is confidential and > intended solely for the individual or entity named above. If the reader of > this message is not the intended recipient, employee or agent responsible > for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that > any dissemination, distribution, copying or unauthorized use of this > communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this > communication in error please notify the sender immediately and return the > communication to sender. > > -Original Message- > From: churchillchat@googlegroups.com [mailto: > churchillchat@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Dave Turrell > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2014 2:16 PM > To: churchillchat@googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: [ChurchillChat] Re: Another new book of "debunking" > > Looks like he's got prior form, as the Sweeney might say. Was it just me > who missed the recent information that FDR instigated the attack on Pearl > Harbour? > > Dave > > Sacrifice of Singapore: Churchill's Biggest Blunder by Michael Arnold > > The fate of Singapore was sealed long before the Japanese attack in > December 1941. The blame lay with British Prime Minister Winston Churchill > who refused to listen to warnings from military advisors to reinforce > defences in Singapore/Malaya, convinced the Japanese would never dare to > attack a ‘white power’. Obsessed with beating German General Erwin Rommel, > he poured into The fate of Singapore was sealed long before the Japanese > attack in December 1941. The blame lay with British Prime Minister Winston > Churchill who refused to listen to warnings from military advisors to > reinforce defences in Singapore/Malaya, convinced the Japanese would never > dare to attack a ‘white power’. Obsessed with beating German General Erwin > Rommel, he poured into the Middle East massive resources that should have > gone to the Far East. However when, inevitably, Singapore fell to the > Japanese in February 1942, Churchill attempted to deflect criticism by > accusing the defenders there of spineless capitulation. > > Recently released information from the Office of Naval Intelligence in > Washington reveals that United States President Franklin Roosevelt not only > knew of the impending attack on Pearl Harbour but actually instigated it. > Although Roosevelt promised a shield of B-17 aircraft for Singapore from > Manila, General Douglas MacArthur in the Philippines had been told to do > nothing until after the Japanese attacks there and at Pearl Harbour so that > the United States could claim an unprovoked assault that would allow them > to declare war on Japan. > > This book provides an account of events during World War II as they > unfolded in Malaya, Singapore and elsewhere in the world prior to the > Japanese attack, as well as a detailed study of the troops on the ground > attacking and defending Singapore. > > > From: churchillchat@googlegroups.com [mailto: > churchillchat@googlegroups.com] > On Behalf Of PatFinn1940 > Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2014 3:39 PM > To: churchillchat@googlegroups.com > Subject: [ChurchillChat] Re: Another new book of "debunking" > > 'Truths'--what 'truths'? The author's?? I'd like to see what sources > he used for this. Are they 'original' sources, or ones that fit the > author's presuppositions and agendas? > > How ridiculous. > > (Ms.) Patricia Finnegan > pfinn2...@gmail.com > > On Monday, December 1, 2014 1:15:00 PM UTC-5, Antoine Capet wrote: > Another new book of "debunking" : > > Arnold, Michael. Hollow Heroes: An Unvarnished Look at the Wartime Careers > of Churchill, Montgomery and Mountbatten. Casemate, 2014. > > The book reveals the truths behind the conventional images of three of > Great Britain's primary military leaders during and immediately after the > Second World War. In each case there was a totally different side to each > man, which demonstrates that a great deal of their reputation was built on > contrived results, deception and dishonest
RE: [ChurchillChat] Re: Another new book of "debunking"
As I recall, the Japanese army attacked Singapore from the rear (jungle side) while the majority of the British defenses were set up looking for an invasion from the sea. Yup, we can blame WSC for that one!! As for FDR's prior knowledge and instigation of the Pearl Harbor attack, if the documents proving his involvement are real, they have yet to be made public as this nonsense has been going around for years! Quinn The information contained in this communication is confidential and intended solely for the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying or unauthorized use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error please notify the sender immediately and return the communication to sender. -Original Message- From: churchillchat@googlegroups.com [mailto:churchillchat@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Dave Turrell Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2014 2:16 PM To: churchillchat@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [ChurchillChat] Re: Another new book of "debunking" Looks like he's got prior form, as the Sweeney might say. Was it just me who missed the recent information that FDR instigated the attack on Pearl Harbour? Dave Sacrifice of Singapore: Churchill's Biggest Blunder by Michael Arnold The fate of Singapore was sealed long before the Japanese attack in December 1941. The blame lay with British Prime Minister Winston Churchill who refused to listen to warnings from military advisors to reinforce defences in Singapore/Malaya, convinced the Japanese would never dare to attack a ‘white power’. Obsessed with beating German General Erwin Rommel, he poured into The fate of Singapore was sealed long before the Japanese attack in December 1941. The blame lay with British Prime Minister Winston Churchill who refused to listen to warnings from military advisors to reinforce defences in Singapore/Malaya, convinced the Japanese would never dare to attack a ‘white power’. Obsessed with beating German General Erwin Rommel, he poured into the Middle East massive resources that should have gone to the Far East. However when, inevitably, Singapore fell to the Japanese in February 1942, Churchill attempted to deflect criticism by accusing the defenders there of spineless capitulation. Recently released information from the Office of Naval Intelligence in Washington reveals that United States President Franklin Roosevelt not only knew of the impending attack on Pearl Harbour but actually instigated it. Although Roosevelt promised a shield of B-17 aircraft for Singapore from Manila, General Douglas MacArthur in the Philippines had been told to do nothing until after the Japanese attacks there and at Pearl Harbour so that the United States could claim an unprovoked assault that would allow them to declare war on Japan. This book provides an account of events during World War II as they unfolded in Malaya, Singapore and elsewhere in the world prior to the Japanese attack, as well as a detailed study of the troops on the ground attacking and defending Singapore. From: churchillchat@googlegroups.com [mailto:churchillchat@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of PatFinn1940 Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2014 3:39 PM To: churchillchat@googlegroups.com Subject: [ChurchillChat] Re: Another new book of "debunking" 'Truths'--what 'truths'? The author's?? I'd like to see what sources he used for this. Are they 'original' sources, or ones that fit the author's presuppositions and agendas? How ridiculous. (Ms.) Patricia Finnegan pfinn2...@gmail.com On Monday, December 1, 2014 1:15:00 PM UTC-5, Antoine Capet wrote: Another new book of "debunking" : Arnold, Michael. Hollow Heroes: An Unvarnished Look at the Wartime Careers of Churchill, Montgomery and Mountbatten. Casemate, 2014. The book reveals the truths behind the conventional images of three of Great Britain's primary military leaders during and immediately after the Second World War. In each case there was a totally different side to each man, which demonstrates that a great deal of their reputation was built on contrived results, deception and dishonesty. It examines the influence and impediment of "class" on the performance of the British Army in World War II, and quotes the views of the Americans that far too often there was an unwillingness among the British to base officer promotion on effectiveness rather than on social background; conforming was more important than performing, as anyone who has served in the British Army's ranks would agree. At the same time, Montgomery feared and was jealous of Patton, whose rate of advance was nearly always twice that of Monty
[ChurchillChat] Re: Another new book of "debunking"
On Monday, December 1, 2014 1:15:00 PM UTC-5, Antoine Capet wrote: > > Another new book of "debunking" : > Arnold, Michael. Hollow Heroes: An Unvarnished Look at the Wartime Careers > of Churchill, Montgomery and Mountbatten. > There are only three ways to publish a new book on Churchill these days: 1) a highly specialized study; 2) a celebrity boutique; and 3) an off-the-wall shocker filled with lies and out-of-context quotations. "Criticism is something you can easily avoid by saying nothing, doing nothing, and being nothing." — Aristotle -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ChurchillChat" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
RE: [ChurchillChat] Re: Another new book of "debunking"
Looks like he's got prior form, as the Sweeney might say. Was it just me who missed the recent information that FDR instigated the attack on Pearl Harbour? Dave Sacrifice of Singapore: Churchill's Biggest Blunder by Michael Arnold The fate of Singapore was sealed long before the Japanese attack in December 1941. The blame lay with British Prime Minister Winston Churchill who refused to listen to warnings from military advisors to reinforce defences in Singapore/Malaya, convinced the Japanese would never dare to attack a ‘white power’. Obsessed with beating German General Erwin Rommel, he poured into The fate of Singapore was sealed long before the Japanese attack in December 1941. The blame lay with British Prime Minister Winston Churchill who refused to listen to warnings from military advisors to reinforce defences in Singapore/Malaya, convinced the Japanese would never dare to attack a ‘white power’. Obsessed with beating German General Erwin Rommel, he poured into the Middle East massive resources that should have gone to the Far East. However when, inevitably, Singapore fell to the Japanese in February 1942, Churchill attempted to deflect criticism by accusing the defenders there of spineless capitulation. Recently released information from the Office of Naval Intelligence in Washington reveals that United States President Franklin Roosevelt not only knew of the impending attack on Pearl Harbour but actually instigated it. Although Roosevelt promised a shield of B-17 aircraft for Singapore from Manila, General Douglas MacArthur in the Philippines had been told to do nothing until after the Japanese attacks there and at Pearl Harbour so that the United States could claim an unprovoked assault that would allow them to declare war on Japan. This book provides an account of events during World War II as they unfolded in Malaya, Singapore and elsewhere in the world prior to the Japanese attack, as well as a detailed study of the troops on the ground attacking and defending Singapore. From: churchillchat@googlegroups.com [mailto:churchillchat@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of PatFinn1940 Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2014 3:39 PM To: churchillchat@googlegroups.com Subject: [ChurchillChat] Re: Another new book of "debunking" 'Truths'--what 'truths'? The author's?? I'd like to see what sources he used for this. Are they 'original' sources, or ones that fit the author's presuppositions and agendas? How ridiculous. (Ms.) Patricia Finnegan pfinn2...@gmail.com On Monday, December 1, 2014 1:15:00 PM UTC-5, Antoine Capet wrote: Another new book of "debunking" : Arnold, Michael. Hollow Heroes: An Unvarnished Look at the Wartime Careers of Churchill, Montgomery and Mountbatten. Casemate, 2014. The book reveals the truths behind the conventional images of three of Great Britain's primary military leaders during and immediately after the Second World War. In each case there was a totally different side to each man, which demonstrates that a great deal of their reputation was built on contrived results, deception and dishonesty. It examines the influence and impediment of "class" on the performance of the British Army in World War II, and quotes the views of the Americans that far too often there was an unwillingness among the British to base officer promotion on effectiveness rather than on social background; conforming was more important than performing, as anyone who has served in the British Army's ranks would agree. At the same time, Montgomery feared and was jealous of Patton, whose rate of advance was nearly always twice that of Monty's. The services of Field Marshals Wavell and Auchinleck, two of Britain's finest commanders of the war, were largely lost to Britain because of Churchill's consistent interfering in field matters and his need to contrive almost anything to remain in power after he had been responsible for the fall of Singapore. This book includes the bizarre case of Major-General Dorman-Smith, one of Britain's most brilliant original thinkers, who without reason was sacked by Churchill. Dorman-Smith was the tactician who had produced Britain's victory over Rommel at the first battle of Alamein, but his crime seems have been overachievement; an unforgivable sin in some eyes. Mountbatten's fumbling in India is also realistically portrayed in these pages, putting paid to the "man for the century"'s overly embellished reputation. Antoine CAPET, FRHistS Professor emeritus of British Studies University of Rouen 76821 Mont-Saint-Aignan France antoin...@univ-rouen.fr 'Britain since 1914' Section Editor Royal Historical Society Bibliography Reviews Editor of CERCLES http://www.cercles.com/review/reviews.html -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ChurchillChat" g
[ChurchillChat] Re: Another new book of "debunking"
'Truths'--what 'truths'? The author's?? I'd like to see what sources he used for this. Are they 'original' sources, or ones that fit the author's presuppositions and agendas? How *ridiculous.*(Ms.) Patricia Finnegan pfinn2...@gmail.com On Monday, December 1, 2014 1:15:00 PM UTC-5, Antoine Capet wrote: > > Another new book of "debunking" : > > Arnold, Michael. Hollow Heroes: An Unvarnished Look at the Wartime Careers > of Churchill, Montgomery and Mountbatten. Casemate, > 2014. > > The book reveals the truths behind the conventional images of three of > Great Britain's primary military leaders during and > immediately after the Second World War. In each case there was a totally > different side to each man, which demonstrates that a > great deal of their reputation was built on contrived results, deception > and dishonesty. It examines the influence and impediment > of "class" on the performance of the British Army in World War II, and > quotes the views of the Americans that far too often there > was an unwillingness among the British to base officer promotion on > effectiveness rather than on social background; conforming was > more important than performing, as anyone who has served in the British > Army's ranks would agree. At the same time, Montgomery > feared and was jealous of Patton, whose rate of advance was nearly always > twice that of Monty's. The services of Field Marshals > Wavell and Auchinleck, two of Britain's finest commanders of the war, were > largely lost to Britain because of Churchill's > consistent interfering in field matters and his need to contrive almost > anything to remain in power after he had been responsible > for the fall of Singapore. This book includes the bizarre case of > Major-General Dorman-Smith, one of Britain's most brilliant > original thinkers, who without reason was sacked by Churchill. > Dorman-Smith was the tactician who had produced Britain's victory > over Rommel at the first battle of Alamein, but his crime seems have been > overachievement; an unforgivable sin in some eyes. > Mountbatten's fumbling in India is also realistically portrayed in these > pages, putting paid to the "man for the century"'s overly > embellished reputation. > > > Antoine CAPET, FRHistS > Professor emeritus of British Studies > University of Rouen > 76821 Mont-Saint-Aignan > France > antoin...@univ-rouen.fr > > 'Britain since 1914' Section Editor > Royal Historical Society Bibliography > > Reviews Editor of CERCLES > http://www.cercles.com/review/reviews.html > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ChurchillChat" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to churchillchat+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to churchillchat@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
