Re: [CinCVS] #cinelerra irc channel usage
Scott wrote: > On Mon, 2007-08-13 at 14:17 +0200, Christian Thaeter wrote: > > I never felt comfortable with the public logging. IRC is meant to be a > > volatile place where humans meet and talk, this is also a social part of > > the community, you wouldn't like either if your pub-talks are logged, Maybe some irc, but this is a freenode channel associated with a development project, not a pub. > > even if you meet with programmer buddies at the pub! IMO there is no > > much benefit of (public) logging an irc channel its rather even > > contraproductive for serveral reasons: > > * Things will be on google for eternity, one has to fear that things he > > saied could be misinterpreted out of context. Haha, I suspect you and I will never agree on this, but... * Google doesn't store 'things' * This is a good time to learn to apologize if you act like an idiot at some point. We are all human, after all. Having the full content of any such discussions allows all to review any questionable discussion. People can judge for themselves what was said, rather then having to rely on someones private logs. * I find it humorous that some people think there is privacy online. I humbly suggest you will find your online experience much easier if you assume anything you do online (irc, email, web site) in cleartext is public. > > * The signal to noise ratio is very high, you have to read pages of logs > > to gather little usable information. > > * in an chat are many errors, assumptions, half baked ideas, rumors. > > * People who know that this is logged are less motivated to write > > conclusions down to some formal/official document. > > > I am one of those odd people who actually read and occasionally glean > some knowledge from the IRC logs, so please don't take away IRC logging. > scott Several people like the idea of logging. Until those against it vote more strongly, I think it should stay also. In larger channels I am involved with, you can assume that several regulars log the channel all the time. I personally see the #cinelerra logger as a way to simplify everyones life who might like a log, but not be able to/or want to run a client full time. -- Kevin ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] #cinelerra irc channel usage
On Mon, 2007-08-13 at 14:17 +0200, Christian Thaeter wrote: > I never felt comfortable with the public logging. IRC is meant to be a > volatile place where humans meet and talk, this is also a social part of > the community, you wouldn't like either if your pub-talks are logged, > even if you meet with programmer buddies at the pub! IMO there is no > much benefit of (public) logging an irc channel its rather even > contraproductive for serveral reasons: > * Things will be on google for eternity, one has to fear that things he > saied could be misinterpreted out of context. > * The signal to noise ratio is very high, you have to read pages of logs > to gather little usable information. > * in an chat are many errors, assumptions, half baked ideas, rumors. > * People who know that this is logged are less motivated to write > conclusions down to some formal/official document. > I am one of those odd people who actually read and occasionally glean some knowledge from the IRC logs, so please don't take away IRC logging. scott ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] #cinelerra irc channel usage
David McNab wrote: > > As Cobra has expressed, there's a conflict between these purposes, with > developers logging #cinelerra and using that to keep up to date with > development issues, while others (including myself, guilty as charged) > have also been using it for general interactions within the Cinelerra > community. > That wasn't my intended message. I asked one person to move a rather lengthy discussion about Gates and other OS politics outside of #cinelerra. My comments about logging where just meant to encourage a little focus on the channel topic. We've had very good success in #cinelerra with very little operator involvement. Please don't take my comments as discouraging any discussion related to video editing in general or the related tools. The only other time I think I've commented on direction of discussion was when people started discussing places to get warez or cracked video editors. This is clearly against freenode policy, so should be considered off topic in channel. > I apologise if I've been 'spamming' #cinelerra with subject matter which > is not 100% specifically on-topic for Cinelerra. No need to be 100% on topic. :) The channel is meant for developer and user interaction and is not restricted to strictly Cinelerra discussion. Just please consider that it is intended for video editing and related discussion. If someone goes way afield of those topics, please encourage them to return to the channel theme. -- Kevin ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] #cinelerra irc channel usage
On Mon, 2007-08-13 at 14:17 +0200, Christian Thaeter wrote: > * Things will be on google for eternity, one has to fear that things he > saied could be misinterpreted out of context. And nobody wants to end up like this guy (humorous link): http://www.ibiblio.org/Dave/Dr-Fun/df9601/df960124.jpg ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] #cinelerra irc channel usage
David McNab wrote: > Hi all, > > At present, there's only one Cinelerra-related channel on IRC, which is > serving multiple purposes as development discussion, help and general > chat. > > As Cobra has expressed, there's a conflict between these purposes, with > developers logging #cinelerra and using that to keep up to date with > development issues, while others (including myself, guilty as charged) > have also been using it for general interactions within the Cinelerra > community. > > I apologise if I've been 'spamming' #cinelerra with subject matter which > is not 100% specifically on-topic for Cinelerra. > > I can see two options for meeting all the needs: > > 1. have #cinelerra as the 'formal' channel for Cinelerra development > and help, and a separate #cinelerra-chat channel, mentioned in the > #cinelerra channel topic, or > > 2. allow general chat in #cinelerra, with a separate formal channel > such as #cinelerra-dev for the more development-related discussions, > and mention #cinelerra-dev in the #cinelerra chan topic > > Either way, it would meet the dual purposes - having a formal > development-related channel, with relevant matter on the logs, not > spammed by chat - and a separate place for cin users/devs to interact > less formally in real time. > > Either option would work, as long as the #cinelerra topic mentions the > other channel. > > Personally, I feel it's a healthy thing for the Cinelerra community to > have an announced, active informal realtime discussion channel. > > Thoughts? The IRC communnity is not that big, I think one channels where users, developers and some private discussions coexist is fine. Splitting this small community is bad. Just be careful that you stop private discussions about knitting, cooking, politics, whatever, when a more proper (cinelerra) topic is discussed. I never felt comfortable with the public logging. IRC is meant to be a volatile place where humans meet and talk, this is also a social part of the community, you wouldn't like either if your pub-talks are logged, even if you meet with programmer buddies at the pub! IMO there is no much benefit of (public) logging an irc channel its rather even contraproductive for serveral reasons: * Things will be on google for eternity, one has to fear that things he saied could be misinterpreted out of context. * The signal to noise ratio is very high, you have to read pages of logs to gather little usable information. * in an chat are many errors, assumptions, half baked ideas, rumors. * People who know that this is logged are less motivated to write conclusions down to some formal/official document. My suggestion how to solve this: Don't log! Whenever we talked about something important and have some final conclusion (this could be howtos about doing things in cinelerra, or programming/design decisions) write a short transcript/conclusion down to a proper place (Documentation Wiki, FAQ, Design Drafts, ML Announce, ...). This makes sure that the text is reviewed and on topic. Further it directly addresses the intended audience, while keeping the IRC channel as place where the community can meet, no matter if developer or user. Btw I am fine if people log the channel privately and maybe exchange the logs, this ranting was only meant about public logging which ends up on some webserver. Christian ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
[CinCVS] #cinelerra irc channel usage
Hi all, At present, there's only one Cinelerra-related channel on IRC, which is serving multiple purposes as development discussion, help and general chat. As Cobra has expressed, there's a conflict between these purposes, with developers logging #cinelerra and using that to keep up to date with development issues, while others (including myself, guilty as charged) have also been using it for general interactions within the Cinelerra community. I apologise if I've been 'spamming' #cinelerra with subject matter which is not 100% specifically on-topic for Cinelerra. I can see two options for meeting all the needs: 1. have #cinelerra as the 'formal' channel for Cinelerra development and help, and a separate #cinelerra-chat channel, mentioned in the #cinelerra channel topic, or 2. allow general chat in #cinelerra, with a separate formal channel such as #cinelerra-dev for the more development-related discussions, and mention #cinelerra-dev in the #cinelerra chan topic Either way, it would meet the dual purposes - having a formal development-related channel, with relevant matter on the logs, not spammed by chat - and a separate place for cin users/devs to interact less formally in real time. Either option would work, as long as the #cinelerra topic mentions the other channel. Personally, I feel it's a healthy thing for the Cinelerra community to have an announced, active informal realtime discussion channel. Thoughts? Cheers David ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
