Re: [CinCVS] Fixing the faders and automation lines
Hi Leo, I know a lot more had been said already in this thread by people who know a lot more than myself about the whole area. But when I read your message more closely something jumped out at me that I thought was at least worth picking up on. You mention a comparison with Ardour. One feature that I like about Ardour, and is also used in Sony Vegas for video editing is the way they handle transitions. In both cases a transition is handled by simply taking two clip sections (on the same track) and dragging them over one another. The length of the overlap is the length of the transition, and overlapping automatically generates two default berzier curves, one for the clip fading in, one for the clip fading out. (Interestingly, Vegas has its heritage in audio editing too, just like Cinelerra - Broadcast 2000 -). Now I have to say that Vegas has probably the sweetest interface I have come across in *any* software package, and is the one application that I would go out and specifically buy a Windows box for. I am not saying we have to be like Vegas, but it is a paradigm that I think just fits so nicely: to cross-dissolve, you just overlay two tracks. I have not looked into it, so I have no idea how difficult it would be to implement, but I at least raise it for your consideration. I admire you all and the work you do (Heroine and Cin-CV) Ciao, marksOn 7/18/06, Leo germani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all,I am happy to announce that we are about to effectivelly contribute to cinelerra. This could happen through the Pontos de Cultura project of the ministery of culture of Brasil, who have hired Estudiolivre.org.Rafael (slackware packages maintener) is soon starting to work on cinelerra code. Our aim is to fix the faders and automation lines.We beleive they are great features (the faders for audio and video, and the possibility of automating camera and projector...) but the way they are today they are not very usable. Of course we want to do this together with the community. So, first, Im gonna ask your opinions on whats the best way to deal with these issues. Later, I'll ask you to help Rafael, who is going to go deep in the code. We have two plans so far, depending on how complex the thing gets:Plan A:Build Ardour-like automation tracks: it means you would have, on the left panel, the option to show or hide the automation tracks of your choice, wich would be subTracks of the track you are working in. On this track all you see is the automation line of the selected automation (fade, CameraX, etc...). You would be able to see one or as many automation tracks as you like at a time. I think this is the best way cause also opens the door for, later on, someone add all the effects to this. For example, the PluginKey frames could migrate to the automatinoLine style. So I could automate, lets say, the HUE parameter of the Color Balance effect. It would substitute the yellow keys in the future in a much better way. (Please let me know if my english is too confusing, maybe I can draw some snapshots)Since we dont know how hard is to do this we have a second option:Plan B:just adding a selection box on the left panel for the user to select wich automation he/she wants to see/edit. It would be possible to see only one at a time. And the scale would be automatically adjusted for the selected automation. Much simpler.. but does the job...Please share your opinions!cheersLeo,, -- Mark StavarSwan Dancer ProductionsEmail:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Mobile: 0410 638 671 http://www.the-writers-retreat.com/
Re: [CinCVS] Fixing the faders and automation lines
Leo germani wrote: Hi all, I am happy to announce that we are about to effectivelly contribute to cinelerra. This could happen through the Pontos de Cultura project of the ministery of culture of Brasil, who have hired Estudiolivre.org http://Estudiolivre.org. Sounds great! We beleive they are great features (the faders for audio and video, and the possibility of automating camera and projector...) but the way they are today they are not very usable. Agreed! But looking at your comments, the annoyances you see seem to be different to the annoyance I see, (and many other complainers on this list) What really annoys me is at the moment, the ranges of the all automation curves (that control floating point variables) are currently shared, (i.e. the range for an audio track, typically need values from -80 to 6 dB), projector / camera zoom ranges are ALWAYS positive, and generally go from .0001 to 10, and projector / camera translation control are generally of the order of -1024 to 1024 (depending on your image size). At the moment, each of these curves has the same range when working with the curves. This I consider is the most annoying feature about automation curves and the one that should be tackled first. My proposed solution is as follows: At the moment (in the SVN version) there exists in the status bar: text box [ -100 to 100] where the text-box is an editable box where you can type in different ranges depending on your job, (i.e. adjusting the zoom, adjusting the projector, etc.) My proposal would be to convert it to dropdown text boxbutton [type] [ -100 to 100][log/lin] With this idea, each curve is of a type (zoom, translation, audiofade), and the range used on the track depends on the type. Rather than having three text-boxes for each type, you have a drop-down list, that can be used to select the range for each type. Additionally, each type can use a logarithmic or linear scale, (probably really only applicable to the zoom!!) The annoyance you seem to be talking about is that of turning on off the automation curves per track. At the moment, I don't see this as a central issue. Though, I think that further down the line it may be nice to have the ability to add a select curves to show for each track feature later on. I personally think that an ability to save a set of curves on/off states would be cool as well, but these are all extended issues. This is purely my idea of making the automations slightly more user friendly to use. (I don't quite see them as not usable!!) You may come up with your own. I do want to say, that I currently LOVE the ability to manually set the limits of the ranges by typing the values in. I edit videos that are recorded from talks taken at gatherings. sometimes the mixer forgets to pipe the audio through the mixer, but a small mic somewhere picks up the sound. What I really appreciate being able to do in cinelerra is type in a range of [0 to 30] and then drag the curve to the top of the track and know that the volumen is at 30 dB, and then drag the curve to the bottom of the track and know that the curve is at 0. If I didn't have the editable text boxes, cinelerra would have to assume the levels I typically liked to jump between, and then I would have to guess what cinelerra was assuming I wanted! Given this train of thought, it may also be cool to have an implementation of snap values for the automation curves. Anyhow, I went way over-time with my discussion of the problem, Regards, Pierre Dumuid begin:vcard fn:Pierre Dumuid n:Dumuid;Pierre org:The University of Adelaide;Mechanical Engineering adr:;;;Adelaide;South Australia;5005;Australia email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Postgraduate Student tel;work:8303 3847 tel;home:8388 5727 tel;cell:0407570263 note:CRICOS Provider Number 00123M x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://www.adelaide.edu.au version:2.1 end:vcard
