Re: Cisco IOS Documentation: How useful is it, really?
I have all the config and command books in word doc format for easy printing. Send me an e-mail and I will send you the ftp site. This is not stealing so don't flame. I took the time to download from the public accessable cco site and just reformated in a easy readable and printable version. I can't read html on a screen. I am also working on the rfc's too but that is slow going. Will let you know when it is done. I may also start posting debugs from my lab as I work on my ccie. If this would be beneficial let me know. Don - Original Message - From: "Circusnuts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "EA Louie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Control Program" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 11:42 AM Subject: Re: Cisco IOS Documentation: How useful is it, really? > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1228062723 > > This is the best IOS & command reference I know of. I've purchased the > 11.0(22) release a few years ago & now one of these 12.1's. I can think of > no better way to master Cisco IOS. > > Phil > > - Original Message - > From: "EA Louie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Control Program" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 7:33 PM > Subject: Re: Cisco IOS Documentation: How useful is it, really? > > > > - Original Message - > > From: Control Program <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 8:36 AM > > Subject: Cisco IOS Documentation: How useful is it, really? > > > > > > > I'm interested in thoughts and opinions on the practical utility of the > > > official Cisco IOS Configuration Guides and Command References available > > in > > > print, on CCO, and on the documentation CD-ROMs that ship with Cisco > > > products. There have been a number of allusions on and off this list to > > the > > > importance (or even necessity) of studying the official docs if "you're > > > serious about CCIE preparation." I even recall seeing some advice given > > by > > > someone that one should read the entire set of configuration guides and > > > command references before attempting the lab exam. > > > > > First off, the "practical utility" for the IOS Config guides is in the > > configuration of the devices (duh), and not for light reading unless you > > have a photographic memory (which actually might be a detriment ;-) > > > > If you've ever put together a configuration for multiple routers (for > > example, even a small 5 site WAN), you discover that the parameters set on > > one device are dependent on its neighbors, and that if you don't get the > > commands right, the results that you want will not be realized. Sometimes > > it can be easy (point-to-point T1's and RIP all using fixed subnet masks), > > but the complexity rises as the routing protocol is implemented and > features > > required are added, and WAN technologies used. > > > > > How useful do you all find the IOS documentation, both with respect to > > CCIE > > > study, and in general? > > > > > VERY. You go to http://www.cisco.com and click on Training and > > Certifications. From there, there are links that take you to the CCIE > > Blueprint, which lists a plethora (ad nauseum) of the material that you > need > > to be familiar with, and it is NOT all Cisco documentation. But there are > > lots of links to Cisco IOS Documentation there, and some good white > papers, > > too. > > > > > Have you succeeded in using it to learn to configure services you were > > > previously unfamiliar with, or is it just useful as a reference once you > > > already mainly know what you're doing? Is it even useful as a > reference? > > > > > Yes - ergo ATM (LANE) and LECS/LES/BUS configuration at a router and ATM > > switch level (two different devices, two different IOSes). Also, the > > interface buffers (queuing commands), and it has really helped me in my > BGP > > configurations and in route redistribution. Again, if you haven't had > > experience on the console, its almost impossible to study the > configuration > > guides except to get familiar with how these device commands are entered. > > > > Many times, the configuration examples at the bottom of the Config Guides > > are good starting points, but don't provide sufficient detail to solve my > > particular problem. Knowing the
Re: Cisco IOS Documentation: How useful is it, really?
I know- eyes hurt from all that monitor time though... - Original Message - From: "EA Louie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Circusnuts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Control Program" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 6:30 AM Subject: Re: Cisco IOS Documentation: How useful is it, really? > Phil - The print version is the same information as on the CD-ROM. I'm also > sold on the usefulness of the printed set - I have a set of 11.2 manuals, 21 > volumes, that fill the entire bottom shelf of my bookshelf :-) > > -e- > > - Original Message - > From: "Circusnuts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "EA Louie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Control Program" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 11:42 AM > Subject: Re: Cisco IOS Documentation: How useful is it, really? > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1228062723 > > > > This is the best IOS & command reference I know of. I've purchased the > > 11.0(22) release a few years ago & now one of these 12.1's. I can think > of > > no better way to master Cisco IOS. > > > > Phil > > > > ----- Original Message - > > From: "EA Louie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Control Program" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 7:33 PM > > Subject: Re: Cisco IOS Documentation: How useful is it, really? > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > From: Control Program <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 8:36 AM > > > Subject: Cisco IOS Documentation: How useful is it, really? > > > > > > > > > > I'm interested in thoughts and opinions on the practical utility of > the > > > > official Cisco IOS Configuration Guides and Command References > available > > > in > > > > print, on CCO, and on the documentation CD-ROMs that ship with Cisco > > > > products. There have been a number of allusions on and off this list > to > > > the > > > > importance (or even necessity) of studying the official docs if > "you're > > > > serious about CCIE preparation." I even recall seeing some advice > given > > > by > > > > someone that one should read the entire set of configuration guides > and > > > > command references before attempting the lab exam. > > > > > > > First off, the "practical utility" for the IOS Config guides is in the > > > configuration of the devices (duh), and not for light reading unless you > > > have a photographic memory (which actually might be a detriment ;-) > > > > > > If you've ever put together a configuration for multiple routers (for > > > example, even a small 5 site WAN), you discover that the parameters set > on > > > one device are dependent on its neighbors, and that if you don't get the > > > commands right, the results that you want will not be realized. > Sometimes > > > it can be easy (point-to-point T1's and RIP all using fixed subnet > masks), > > > but the complexity rises as the routing protocol is implemented and > > features > > > required are added, and WAN technologies used. > > > > > > > How useful do you all find the IOS documentation, both with respect to > > > CCIE > > > > study, and in general? > > > > > > > VERY. You go to http://www.cisco.com and click on Training and > > > Certifications. From there, there are links that take you to the CCIE > > > Blueprint, which lists a plethora (ad nauseum) of the material that you > > need > > > to be familiar with, and it is NOT all Cisco documentation. But there > are > > > lots of links to Cisco IOS Documentation there, and some good white > > papers, > > > too. > > > > > > > Have you succeeded in using it to learn to configure services you were > > > > previously unfamiliar with, or is it just useful as a reference once > you > > > > already mainly know what you're doing? Is it even useful as a > > reference? > > > > > > > Yes - ergo ATM (LANE) and LECS/LES/BUS configuration at a router and ATM > > > switch level (two different devices, two different IOSes). Also, the > > > interface buffers (queuing commands), and i
Re: Cisco IOS Documentation: How useful is it, really?
Phil - The print version is the same information as on the CD-ROM. I'm also sold on the usefulness of the printed set - I have a set of 11.2 manuals, 21 volumes, that fill the entire bottom shelf of my bookshelf :-) -e- - Original Message - From: "Circusnuts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "EA Louie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Control Program" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 11:42 AM Subject: Re: Cisco IOS Documentation: How useful is it, really? > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1228062723 > > This is the best IOS & command reference I know of. I've purchased the > 11.0(22) release a few years ago & now one of these 12.1's. I can think of > no better way to master Cisco IOS. > > Phil > > - Original Message - > From: "EA Louie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Control Program" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 7:33 PM > Subject: Re: Cisco IOS Documentation: How useful is it, really? > > > > - Original Message - > > From: Control Program <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 8:36 AM > > Subject: Cisco IOS Documentation: How useful is it, really? > > > > > > > I'm interested in thoughts and opinions on the practical utility of the > > > official Cisco IOS Configuration Guides and Command References available > > in > > > print, on CCO, and on the documentation CD-ROMs that ship with Cisco > > > products. There have been a number of allusions on and off this list to > > the > > > importance (or even necessity) of studying the official docs if "you're > > > serious about CCIE preparation." I even recall seeing some advice given > > by > > > someone that one should read the entire set of configuration guides and > > > command references before attempting the lab exam. > > > > > First off, the "practical utility" for the IOS Config guides is in the > > configuration of the devices (duh), and not for light reading unless you > > have a photographic memory (which actually might be a detriment ;-) > > > > If you've ever put together a configuration for multiple routers (for > > example, even a small 5 site WAN), you discover that the parameters set on > > one device are dependent on its neighbors, and that if you don't get the > > commands right, the results that you want will not be realized. Sometimes > > it can be easy (point-to-point T1's and RIP all using fixed subnet masks), > > but the complexity rises as the routing protocol is implemented and > features > > required are added, and WAN technologies used. > > > > > How useful do you all find the IOS documentation, both with respect to > > CCIE > > > study, and in general? > > > > > VERY. You go to http://www.cisco.com and click on Training and > > Certifications. From there, there are links that take you to the CCIE > > Blueprint, which lists a plethora (ad nauseum) of the material that you > need > > to be familiar with, and it is NOT all Cisco documentation. But there are > > lots of links to Cisco IOS Documentation there, and some good white > papers, > > too. > > > > > Have you succeeded in using it to learn to configure services you were > > > previously unfamiliar with, or is it just useful as a reference once you > > > already mainly know what you're doing? Is it even useful as a > reference? > > > > > Yes - ergo ATM (LANE) and LECS/LES/BUS configuration at a router and ATM > > switch level (two different devices, two different IOSes). Also, the > > interface buffers (queuing commands), and it has really helped me in my > BGP > > configurations and in route redistribution. Again, if you haven't had > > experience on the console, its almost impossible to study the > configuration > > guides except to get familiar with how these device commands are entered. > > > > Many times, the configuration examples at the bottom of the Config Guides > > are good starting points, but don't provide sufficient detail to solve my > > particular problem. Knowing the context of a router (one big ARP table) > > helps alot, and knowing the capabilities and limitations of the router in > > terms of filtering and traffic movement also help. Interface-specific > > commands versus global commands also proves to be valuable, because it > gives > > me a referenc
Re: Cisco IOS Documentation: How useful is it, really?
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1228062723 This is the best IOS & command reference I know of. I've purchased the 11.0(22) release a few years ago & now one of these 12.1's. I can think of no better way to master Cisco IOS. Phil - Original Message - From: "EA Louie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Control Program" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 7:33 PM Subject: Re: Cisco IOS Documentation: How useful is it, really? > - Original Message - > From: Control Program <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 8:36 AM > Subject: Cisco IOS Documentation: How useful is it, really? > > > > I'm interested in thoughts and opinions on the practical utility of the > > official Cisco IOS Configuration Guides and Command References available > in > > print, on CCO, and on the documentation CD-ROMs that ship with Cisco > > products. There have been a number of allusions on and off this list to > the > > importance (or even necessity) of studying the official docs if "you're > > serious about CCIE preparation." I even recall seeing some advice given > by > > someone that one should read the entire set of configuration guides and > > command references before attempting the lab exam. > > > First off, the "practical utility" for the IOS Config guides is in the > configuration of the devices (duh), and not for light reading unless you > have a photographic memory (which actually might be a detriment ;-) > > If you've ever put together a configuration for multiple routers (for > example, even a small 5 site WAN), you discover that the parameters set on > one device are dependent on its neighbors, and that if you don't get the > commands right, the results that you want will not be realized. Sometimes > it can be easy (point-to-point T1's and RIP all using fixed subnet masks), > but the complexity rises as the routing protocol is implemented and features > required are added, and WAN technologies used. > > > How useful do you all find the IOS documentation, both with respect to > CCIE > > study, and in general? > > > VERY. You go to http://www.cisco.com and click on Training and > Certifications. From there, there are links that take you to the CCIE > Blueprint, which lists a plethora (ad nauseum) of the material that you need > to be familiar with, and it is NOT all Cisco documentation. But there are > lots of links to Cisco IOS Documentation there, and some good white papers, > too. > > > Have you succeeded in using it to learn to configure services you were > > previously unfamiliar with, or is it just useful as a reference once you > > already mainly know what you're doing? Is it even useful as a reference? > > > Yes - ergo ATM (LANE) and LECS/LES/BUS configuration at a router and ATM > switch level (two different devices, two different IOSes). Also, the > interface buffers (queuing commands), and it has really helped me in my BGP > configurations and in route redistribution. Again, if you haven't had > experience on the console, its almost impossible to study the configuration > guides except to get familiar with how these device commands are entered. > > Many times, the configuration examples at the bottom of the Config Guides > are good starting points, but don't provide sufficient detail to solve my > particular problem. Knowing the context of a router (one big ARP table) > helps alot, and knowing the capabilities and limitations of the router in > terms of filtering and traffic movement also help. Interface-specific > commands versus global commands also proves to be valuable, because it gives > me a reference point to search the documentation. > > > > > My own thoughts: > > > > I ask because I find the IOS documentation hard to digest at best, and > > actively confusing at worst. I use it frequently, but almost exclusively > as > > a reference to look up command options and syntax details. Even then, > half > > the time I find that there either isn't enough detail in the manual to > > answer the question I have, or there's so much detail that the information > > I'm looking for is buried in an avalanche of optional parameters and > > unrelated features. The idea of resorting to the IOS documentation to, > say, > > learn how to set up async and ISDN interfaces using a combination of > static > > and dynamic addressing to support user dialin and backup/DDR functions on > an > > access server makes my blood run cold. It c
Re: Cisco IOS Documentation: How useful is it, really?
- Original Message - From: Control Program <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 8:36 AM Subject: Cisco IOS Documentation: How useful is it, really? > I'm interested in thoughts and opinions on the practical utility of the > official Cisco IOS Configuration Guides and Command References available in > print, on CCO, and on the documentation CD-ROMs that ship with Cisco > products. There have been a number of allusions on and off this list to the > importance (or even necessity) of studying the official docs if "you're > serious about CCIE preparation." I even recall seeing some advice given by > someone that one should read the entire set of configuration guides and > command references before attempting the lab exam. > First off, the "practical utility" for the IOS Config guides is in the configuration of the devices (duh), and not for light reading unless you have a photographic memory (which actually might be a detriment ;-) If you've ever put together a configuration for multiple routers (for example, even a small 5 site WAN), you discover that the parameters set on one device are dependent on its neighbors, and that if you don't get the commands right, the results that you want will not be realized. Sometimes it can be easy (point-to-point T1's and RIP all using fixed subnet masks), but the complexity rises as the routing protocol is implemented and features required are added, and WAN technologies used. > How useful do you all find the IOS documentation, both with respect to CCIE > study, and in general? > VERY. You go to http://www.cisco.com and click on Training and Certifications. From there, there are links that take you to the CCIE Blueprint, which lists a plethora (ad nauseum) of the material that you need to be familiar with, and it is NOT all Cisco documentation. But there are lots of links to Cisco IOS Documentation there, and some good white papers, too. > Have you succeeded in using it to learn to configure services you were > previously unfamiliar with, or is it just useful as a reference once you > already mainly know what you're doing? Is it even useful as a reference? > Yes - ergo ATM (LANE) and LECS/LES/BUS configuration at a router and ATM switch level (two different devices, two different IOSes). Also, the interface buffers (queuing commands), and it has really helped me in my BGP configurations and in route redistribution. Again, if you haven't had experience on the console, its almost impossible to study the configuration guides except to get familiar with how these device commands are entered. Many times, the configuration examples at the bottom of the Config Guides are good starting points, but don't provide sufficient detail to solve my particular problem. Knowing the context of a router (one big ARP table) helps alot, and knowing the capabilities and limitations of the router in terms of filtering and traffic movement also help. Interface-specific commands versus global commands also proves to be valuable, because it gives me a reference point to search the documentation. > > My own thoughts: > > I ask because I find the IOS documentation hard to digest at best, and > actively confusing at worst. I use it frequently, but almost exclusively as > a reference to look up command options and syntax details. Even then, half > the time I find that there either isn't enough detail in the manual to > answer the question I have, or there's so much detail that the information > I'm looking for is buried in an avalanche of optional parameters and > unrelated features. The idea of resorting to the IOS documentation to, say, > learn how to set up async and ISDN interfaces using a combination of static > and dynamic addressing to support user dialin and backup/DDR functions on an > access server makes my blood run cold. It could be done - eventually - but > it would require piecing the information together from eight different > chapters, one of which would provide 200 pages of information just on PPP, > another of which would provide 150 pages of information on ISDN signaling, > and so on. > If you're just reading the configuration guides without live equipment to see what the config command does, then it *is* confusing at best, frustrating at worst. I've studied the configuration guides without equipment around, but I also have the benefit of setting up lots of equipment, so when the config guide refers to a command, I know the basic context of why it needs to be done. Much of the configuration can be trial and error, much like any other programmable device, as they don't put every possible combination of every command into the config guides, but that's why the TAC has resorted to providing sample configurations which are now very well documented: http://www.cisco.com/public/technotes/serv_tips.shtml As far as detail is concerned, I agree with you that there often is a big (sometimes HUGE) disconnect between the config gu
RE: Cisco IOS Documentation: How useful is it, really?
Well if you have a desire to pass the CCIE Lab, I think it would be very difficult, shall I say virtually impossible, to sail through without a fair command over Cisco IOS Configuration Guides and Command References. I realize that it may be very difficult to remember every bit of it, but the ability to navigate to where a feature is located and to retreive it quickly may make the difference between pass and fail. In my case I never studied Bruce Caslow's book or Jeff Doyle's (Routing TCP/IP) but still managed to pass. So, it all depends, if you skip Cisco IOS Configuration Guides and Command References, the sailing may not be very smooth. Aziz S. Islam -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Control Program Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 11:37 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Cisco IOS Documentation: How useful is it, really? I'm interested in thoughts and opinions on the practical utility of the official Cisco IOS Configuration Guides and Command References available in print, on CCO, and on the documentation CD-ROMs that ship with Cisco products. There have been a number of allusions on and off this list to the importance (or even necessity) of studying the official docs if "you're serious about CCIE preparation." I even recall seeing some advice given by someone that one should read the entire set of configuration guides and command references before attempting the lab exam. How useful do you all find the IOS documentation, both with respect to CCIE study, and in general? Have you succeeded in using it to learn to configure services you were previously unfamiliar with, or is it just useful as a reference once you already mainly know what you're doing? Is it even useful as a reference? My own thoughts: I ask because I find the IOS documentation hard to digest at best, and actively confusing at worst. I use it frequently, but almost exclusively as a reference to look up command options and syntax details. Even then, half the time I find that there either isn't enough detail in the manual to answer the question I have, or there's so much detail that the information I'm looking for is buried in an avalanche of optional parameters and unrelated features. The idea of resorting to the IOS documentation to, say, learn how to set up async and ISDN interfaces using a combination of static and dynamic addressing to support user dialin and backup/DDR functions on an access server makes my blood run cold. It could be done - eventually - but it would require piecing the information together from eight different chapters, one of which would provide 200 pages of information just on PPP, another of which would provide 150 pages of information on ISDN signaling, and so on. I just can't imagine the official documentation as the preferred means to learn to do something new. Should you be familiar with the structure and contents? Of course. It's still the last word when it comes to resolving ambiguities or finding information on that one option you knew was there but couldn't remember the keyword for. Is it time well-spent to sit there and study these manuals as an attempt to increase your knowledge and proficiency? Not in my experience. That's not to say you won't learn anything by doing it - just that there are better ways to use your time. Comments encouraged! Maybe some of you have actually devised a way to triage the documentation and learn a lot from it despite the way it's organized. If so, I'd love to hear your strategies. -- _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Cisco IOS Documentation: How useful is it, really?
Hint - during my review with the proctor after my recent failed attempt, the proctor told me that in his opinion it was critical that one be familiar with the configuration guides, and that one have practiced using the configurations presented there. Several folks who passed the lab first time through have said similar things. FWIW Chuck -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Control Program Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 8:37 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:Cisco IOS Documentation: How useful is it, really? I'm interested in thoughts and opinions on the practical utility of the official Cisco IOS Configuration Guides and Command References available in print, on CCO, and on the documentation CD-ROMs that ship with Cisco products. There have been a number of allusions on and off this list to the importance (or even necessity) of studying the official docs if "you're serious about CCIE preparation." I even recall seeing some advice given by someone that one should read the entire set of configuration guides and command references before attempting the lab exam. How useful do you all find the IOS documentation, both with respect to CCIE study, and in general? Have you succeeded in using it to learn to configure services you were previously unfamiliar with, or is it just useful as a reference once you already mainly know what you're doing? Is it even useful as a reference? My own thoughts: I ask because I find the IOS documentation hard to digest at best, and actively confusing at worst. I use it frequently, but almost exclusively as a reference to look up command options and syntax details. Even then, half the time I find that there either isn't enough detail in the manual to answer the question I have, or there's so much detail that the information I'm looking for is buried in an avalanche of optional parameters and unrelated features. The idea of resorting to the IOS documentation to, say, learn how to set up async and ISDN interfaces using a combination of static and dynamic addressing to support user dialin and backup/DDR functions on an access server makes my blood run cold. It could be done - eventually - but it would require piecing the information together from eight different chapters, one of which would provide 200 pages of information just on PPP, another of which would provide 150 pages of information on ISDN signaling, and so on. I just can't imagine the official documentation as the preferred means to learn to do something new. Should you be familiar with the structure and contents? Of course. It's still the last word when it comes to resolving ambiguities or finding information on that one option you knew was there but couldn't remember the keyword for. Is it time well-spent to sit there and study these manuals as an attempt to increase your knowledge and proficiency? Not in my experience. That's not to say you won't learn anything by doing it - just that there are better ways to use your time. Comments encouraged! Maybe some of you have actually devised a way to triage the documentation and learn a lot from it despite the way it's organized. If so, I'd love to hear your strategies. -- _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
