Re: Diff between point to point T1 and T1 with framerelay
sure.. PPP (point-to-point protocol) and Frame relay are both different layer two protocols that run on top of the T-1 service. PPP over T-1 is the same PPP the is commonly used for modems when dialing up to an ISP. It's based on the HDLC protocol. Frame relay has an addressing scheme separate from IP that makes it a shared protocol that can be switched throughout a telco providers switch network. It uses the concept of a DLCI (Dynamic Link Channel Identifier) and of SVCs and PVCs to implement a point-to-point or point-to-multipoint scheme connecting many sites over a single physical circuit. Essentially, the provider can say ok, here's a PVC (Permanent virtual circuit) at DLCI 16 that points to company B, and here's another that points to Company C on dlci 17. you set these up on your side, and then the provider gives the other companies their own dlci numbers that correspond to that circuit connection. SVCs do the same thing but on an as-needed basis. many providers don't support these. frame relay also provides LMI (local mgmt. interface) to list DLCI numbers and assure connectivity (among other things) to a FRAD (frame relay access device). it's important point to note that because of frame relay's features and the fact that it is switched (PPP is mapped directly from point A to point B by the provider), mean that overhead is incurred and a portion of the total circuit bandwidth will be used by the protocol. So, a T-1 won't be able to run at a full T-1 speed over frame relay, and the network won't provide you assurance of that unless you give them lots of money. This gets into congestion control (FECN and BECN) and the concept of CIR. Many of these terms (HDLC, frame relay, PPP, T-1, etc.) are fairly well definied with links to further explanations at http://www.whatis.com. i love network acronym speak. it makes me feel like a doctor. hope this helps, david John Zaggat wrote: > > Can some clearly explain the difference, I have > checked the Archives and not found a good explanation. > Also if you have some sample configs, that would be a > great help to me. > Thank you. > > = > JZ > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! > http://photos.yahoo.com > > ___ > UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Diff between point to point T1 and T1 with framerelay
John, If you order a T1 from A provider that is 1536 Mbs you get that bandwidth all to yourself you DO NOT have to SHARE it with anyone. It is as if you, and the other side of the connection had a long cable between the two sites, and only those two site could used that cable. All of the data you transmit under normal circumstance (no errors) will get through. This comes at a price. Frame-Relay on the other hand is shared bandwidth. Yes! the provider will under normal conditions guarantee the bandwidth that you request (CIR = Committed Information Rate), say 256k, 512k etc. You will even be able to burst for a certain period of time if there is bandwidth available to your port speed. But if the network becomes congested some of your packets will not get to their destination because they could have met a condition (DE + Discard eligible) set in the core network, or by the subscriber, that required them to be dropped under certain circumstances, like high network congestion,(This varies as some carriers will not drop packets, but there may be longer delays). When I say that it is shared bandwidth I say this because in fact you are sharing the bandwidth in the Core Network of your provider with hundreds of other subscribers to the service. Hope this helps, EF -Original Message- From: John Zaggat [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 1:15 PM To: CiscoGroupstudy Subject: Diff between point to point T1 and T1 with framerelay Can some clearly explain the difference, I have checked the Archives and not found a good explanation. Also if you have some sample configs, that would be a great help to me. Thank you. = JZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ___ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Diff between point to point T1 and T1 with framerelay
John, Thanks a lot for your help, I am setting up a point to point T1 link, most of the traffic will be file and email access. With so many options available for encapsulation how do you choose what's the best. I have a cisco 7206 on one side and 1604 on the other. Do you have any suggestions for me --- John Neiberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The discrepancy you're seeing has nothing to do with > frame relay overhead, > but more with the number of signalling bits present > in the T1. To provide > clocking, a T1 circuit using ESF (extended super > frames) and B8ZS (binary > eight-zero substitution) coding will insert bits > into the stream, I believe > one on every frame, as a timing reference. Because > that one bit per frame > is used for clocking and not data, it reduces your > actual throughput to 1536 > Mbps. > > I don't believe that frame relay has any more > overhead than a point to point > circuit running HDLC, for instance. Both circuits > encapsulate your data > into another type of datalink format before sending > it over the wire. Point > to point HDLC, however, doesn't have FECN, BECN, > LMI, etc., so I guess in a > way it's true that there is more protocol-specific > traffic on a frame relay > circuit than there would be on a ptp. > > I hope that helps! Feel free to ask me any more > questions. It helps me to > remember this stuff if I have to explain it to > someone else. > > Later, > John Neiberger, CCNA/CCDA > > > Thank you for your help, I have one more question > : > > The bandwidth for a p-to-p connnection, should > that be > > 1544 Mbs as compared to 1536 Mbs since there is > no > > frame-relay overhead ? > > --- "Feliz, Edgar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > John, > > > > > > If you order a T1 from A provider that is 1536 > Mbs > > > you get that bandwidth > > > all to yourself you DO NOT have to SHARE it > with > > > anyone. It is as if you, > > > and the other side of the connection had a long > > > cable between the two sites, > > > and only those two site could used that cable. > All > > > of the data you transmit > > > under normal circumstance (no errors) will get > > > through. This comes at a > > > price. > > > > > > Frame-Relay on the other hand is shared > bandwidth. > > > Yes! the provider will > > > under normal conditions guarantee the bandwidth > that > > > you request (CIR = > > > Committed Information Rate), say 256k, 512k > etc. You > > > will even be able to > > > burst for a certain period of time if there is > > > bandwidth available to your > > > port speed. But if the network becomes > congested > > > some of your packets will > > > not get to their destination because they could > have > > > met a condition (DE + > > > Discard eligible) set in the core network, or > by the > > > subscriber, that > > > required them to be dropped under certain > > > circumstances, like high network > > > congestion,(This varies as some carriers will > not > > > drop packets, but there > > > may be longer delays). When I say that it is > shared > > > bandwidth I say this > > > because in fact you are sharing the bandwidth > in the > > > Core Network of your > > > provider with hundreds of other subscribers to > the > > > service. > > > > > > Hope this helps, > > > > > > EF > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: John Zaggat [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 1:15 PM > > > To: CiscoGroupstudy > > > Subject: Diff between point to point T1 and T1 > with > > > framerelay > > > > > > > > > Can some clearly explain the difference, I have > > > checked the Archives and not found a good > > > explanation. > > > Also if you have some sample configs, that > would be > > > a > > > great help to me. > > > Thank you. > > > > > > = > > > JZ > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! > > > http://photos.yahoo.com > > > > > > ___ > > > UPDATED Posting Guidelines: > > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html > > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > > > http://www.groupstudy.com > > > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations > to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > = > > JZ > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > __ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! > > http://photos.yahoo.com > > > > ___ > > UPDATED Posting Guidelines: > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > http://www.groupstudy.com > > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > ___ > Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite > Visit http://fr
RE: Diff between point to point T1 and T1 with framerelay
There's no frame relay overhead, but PPP and even the default Cisco HDLC encapsulation are still protocols, and have associated overhead. Framing still has to take place, even if it's not the "frame relay" encapsulation. - Don -Original Message- From: John Zaggat [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 11:00 AM To: Feliz, Edgar; CiscoGroupstudy Subject: RE: Diff between point to point T1 and T1 with framerelay Thank you for your help, I have one more question : The bandwidth for a p-to-p connnection, should that be 1544 Mbs as compared to 1536 Mbs since there is no frame-relay overhead ? --- "Feliz, Edgar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > John, > > If you order a T1 from A provider that is 1536 Mbs > you get that bandwidth > all to yourself you DO NOT have to SHARE it with > anyone. It is as if you, > and the other side of the connection had a long > cable between the two sites, > and only those two site could used that cable. All > of the data you transmit > under normal circumstance (no errors) will get > through. This comes at a > price. > > Frame-Relay on the other hand is shared bandwidth. > Yes! the provider will > under normal conditions guarantee the bandwidth that > you request (CIR = > Committed Information Rate), say 256k, 512k etc. You > will even be able to > burst for a certain period of time if there is > bandwidth available to your > port speed. But if the network becomes congested > some of your packets will > not get to their destination because they could have > met a condition (DE + > Discard eligible) set in the core network, or by the > subscriber, that > required them to be dropped under certain > circumstances, like high network > congestion,(This varies as some carriers will not > drop packets, but there > may be longer delays). When I say that it is shared > bandwidth I say this > because in fact you are sharing the bandwidth in the > Core Network of your > provider with hundreds of other subscribers to the > service. > > Hope this helps, > > EF > > -Original Message- > From: John Zaggat [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 1:15 PM > To: CiscoGroupstudy > Subject: Diff between point to point T1 and T1 with > framerelay > > > Can some clearly explain the difference, I have > checked the Archives and not found a good > explanation. > Also if you have some sample configs, that would be > a > great help to me. > Thank you. > > = > JZ > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! > http://photos.yahoo.com > > ___ > UPDATED Posting Guidelines: > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > http://www.groupstudy.com > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] = JZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ___ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] * The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. When addressed to our clients any opinions or advice contained in this email are subject to the terms and conditions expressed in the governing KPMG client engagement letter. * ___ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Diff between point to point T1 and T1 with framerelay
Thank you for your help, I have one more question : The bandwidth for a p-to-p connnection, should that be 1544 Mbs as compared to 1536 Mbs since there is no frame-relay overhead ? --- "Feliz, Edgar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > John, > > If you order a T1 from A provider that is 1536 Mbs > you get that bandwidth > all to yourself you DO NOT have to SHARE it with > anyone. It is as if you, > and the other side of the connection had a long > cable between the two sites, > and only those two site could used that cable. All > of the data you transmit > under normal circumstance (no errors) will get > through. This comes at a > price. > > Frame-Relay on the other hand is shared bandwidth. > Yes! the provider will > under normal conditions guarantee the bandwidth that > you request (CIR = > Committed Information Rate), say 256k, 512k etc. You > will even be able to > burst for a certain period of time if there is > bandwidth available to your > port speed. But if the network becomes congested > some of your packets will > not get to their destination because they could have > met a condition (DE + > Discard eligible) set in the core network, or by the > subscriber, that > required them to be dropped under certain > circumstances, like high network > congestion,(This varies as some carriers will not > drop packets, but there > may be longer delays). When I say that it is shared > bandwidth I say this > because in fact you are sharing the bandwidth in the > Core Network of your > provider with hundreds of other subscribers to the > service. > > Hope this helps, > > EF > > -Original Message- > From: John Zaggat [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 1:15 PM > To: CiscoGroupstudy > Subject: Diff between point to point T1 and T1 with > framerelay > > > Can some clearly explain the difference, I have > checked the Archives and not found a good > explanation. > Also if you have some sample configs, that would be > a > great help to me. > Thank you. > > = > JZ > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! > http://photos.yahoo.com > > ___ > UPDATED Posting Guidelines: > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > http://www.groupstudy.com > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] = JZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ___ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Diff between point to point T1 and T1 with framerelay
I'll try to answer this one, and I hope it makes it through. My last three posts to the list haven't made it on. A point to point circuit is dedicated for your use. You don't have to worry about congestion in your provider's network causing you to lose data between sites. The down side is that you lose flexibility. The config is as simple as you want it to be. Router A: interface serial 0 description To Router B encapsulation hdlc ! this is the default ip address 10.1.1.1 255.255.255.0 Router B: interface serial 0 description To Router A encapsulation hdlc! Again, this is default ip address 10.1.1.2 255.255.255.0 And that's about it for that. With frame relay, you have a T1 between your site and the provider's network. Your physical circuit can then be further broken down into what is called Permanent Virtual Circuits, or usually, PVCs. The nice thing about this approach is that the PVCs can have entirely separate and unrelated endpoints, which provides a lot of flexibility. One downside to this approach is that you are now a slave to the conditions of your provider's network. If it gets congested, you run the chance of losing data. To avoid data loss, you pay more for a higher CIR, or Committed Information Rate. This is a guaranteed amount of bandwidth that you agree to pay for. Any bursting over that limit is not guaranteed to arrive if the network is congested. A simple config for three routers might look like this: Router A: interface serial 0 encapsulation frame-relay interface serial 0.16 description To Router B ip address 10.1.1.1 255.255.255.0 frame-relay interface-dlci 16 interface serial 0.17 description To Router C ip address 10.1.2.1 255.255.255.0 frame-relay interface-dlci 17 Router B: interface serial 0 encapsulation frame-relay interface serial 0.16 description To Router A ip address 10.1.1.2 255.255.255.0 frame-relay interface-dlci 16 interface serial 0.17 description To Router C ip address 10.1.3.1 255.255.255.0 frame-relay interface-dlci 17 Router C: interface serial 0 encapsulation frame-relay interface serial 0.16 description To Router A ip address 10.1.2.2 255.255.255.0 frame-relay interface-dlci 16 interface serial 0.17 description To Router B ip address 10.1.3.2 255.255.255.0 frame-relay interface-dlci 17 Ok, it's that simple if you want it to be. I left out some things for the sake of clarity and I hope I didn't make any mistakes. If I did, someone please correct me. I only got three hours of sleep last night and I shouldn't be configuring anything off the top of my head! A couple of things to notice about these configs: first, the subinterface numbers can be anything you want. I could have used "interface serial 0.67" if I'd wanted, but it's a good practice to make the subinterface number match the dlci, which you get to pick most of the time but sometimes it will be provided to you. The first usable dlci number is 16, so I used that in these configs. Second, the dlci has only local significance. This means that if dlci 16 on router A leads to router B, on router B's end it doesn't have to be dlci 16. It could just have easily been dlci 95. It's entirely irrelevant. I hope that helps, and that I answered your question. I probably went off on a tangent and answered questions you weren't asking, but that's only because I really, REALLY need some sleep! Good luck! John Neiberger, CCNA/CCDA > Can some clearly explain the difference, I have > checked the Archives and not found a good explanation. > Also if you have some sample configs, that would be a > great help to me. > Thank you. > > = > JZ > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! > http://photos.yahoo.com > > ___ > UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp ___ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Diff between point to point T1 and T1 with framerelay
T1 is at layer one and generally needs a layer two protocol to function in a router environment. The two most popular layer two protocols are PPP and Frame Relay. Point-to-Point T1s cost more since you need to pay for a connection of this bandwidth from point A to point B. This bandwidth is "always on". Frame Relay goes from Point A to the Frame switch which has a high bandwidth and the ability to switch the traffic from frame switch to frame switch until it reaches the destination. This is a shared backbone of bandwidth. JOE CCIE 5917 "John Zaggat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Can some clearly explain the difference, I have > checked the Archives and not found a good explanation. > Also if you have some sample configs, that would be a > great help to me. > Thank you. > > = > JZ > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! > http://photos.yahoo.com > > ___ > UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > --- ___ UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
